That time we Talked About Metal Buildings

This is episode number 29 of The Homeowner Show. Whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is Craig Williams.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show.

We are so glad that you took the time to tune in today to join us for another episode of The Homeowner Show.

I've got this pen in my hand, and like, if you click that, the entire show Someone's gonna just like—

We might actually get like—

Unsubscribe. Done.

Get a couple of emails.

Yeah, put that thing down, man. Put it down.

Put it in the blooper room.

Oh yeah, it's just something that— hey, there's a pin, I'm gonna click it.

Hey man, you just set that down, that thing down, and, uh, you set it down on a new piece of equipment.

Yeah, we got the— we got a new fancy schmancy table in the Homeowner Show studio. Big shout out and thank you to our friends over at Love Fosters Hope.

Yeah, absolutely. They're a great organization. Um, check them out on the interwebs. But man, they gave us a really nice looking table. It's a huge upgrade from what we had there.

You know, another one, one organization's trash is our absolute treasure, man.

Absolutely.

So thank you guys for, for sending that our way.

Definitely, man.

We've got a, we got a cool show for today. We're going to be talking about some buildings from Mueller over there.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm excited about it.

Have you ever bought a building?

Well, I've bought a house. Yeah, bought more than one of them, but I've never bought a building. Never bought a building? It's just a shell.

Would you ever like to buy a building?

Absolutely.

It's like one of your dreams?

It's not a dream, but I will tell you that, uh, interestingly enough, my sister and, and her husband are getting ready to do this very thing. They're gonna build their own little barndominium.

Nice.

Yeah.

So I want to do— I do want to let everybody know that Kevin might be in a little bit of a mood tonight. And then, you know, this, this will have, you know, happened when this airs, it will have already gone down. He, he came over, he missed tip-off for his alma mater's very first trip to the dance.

This is big.

Yeah, he's got it. He's got his big purple pride shirt on over there.

That's right.

So what are they, the—

The ACU Wildcats.

Okay.

Yeah, go Wildcats.

Yeah, well, if the video ever goes up, they'll see that you threw the logo. People who are listening have no idea what you just did.

Yeah, I did. I threw—

Kevin made a hand gesture.

Big purple Ram finger. You need to put it down, Kev.

It's inappropriate.

Well, hey.

It's a Christian university.

That's right, but this is, uh, this is big stuff for us. And, and not only that, um, so the men are at the NCAA tournament and the women.

And the ladies. Yeah, so that's it. So they need— they needed a dance partner.

That's right.

Yeah.

That's right.

So if he's a little cranky tonight, hey, it's okay. We'll just cranky in subsequent episodes. We all know why.

We'll just motor through this. 'Cause they got it recorded.

They more than likely got whipped on by the other Wildcats.

Hey.

We, we have a good shot in the first couple minutes. It'll be all right.

What kind of shoes is Kentucky wearing?

I have no idea.

Wasn't there a blowout? Like someone blew a shoe out? Seriously. No, yeah, that may have happened. Yeah, there is like a real famous college basketball player.

I don't know.

A couple of weeks ago with Duke.

Did that—

did that—

did this actually happen?

Like he had a blowout shoe?

Oh, it was huge. And like the first 30 seconds Blew his shoe out, rolled his ankle.

Oh yeah.

Out for the game.

Oh my gosh.

Deep loss.

Yeah.

There you go.

Yeah.

So you got a chance. There you are. You just need better footwear.

Well, our coach can't even get a suit.

Yeah, I saw there was a little campaign on the Facebook there to—

Yeah, so our ACU Wildcat coach owns one suit, and during the Southland Conference Championship, they won that allowed them to go to the tournament, he ripped his pants in celebration.

So he's got one suit.

And so people are trying to— they started up a GoFundMe to buy him a new suit.

I'm pretty sure with making it to the tournament, he's probably gonna get a raise.

I would hope so.

So if not, that's a campaign we need to start right there.

Yeah, that's exactly right.

I'm not even from there, I'm in favor of it already.

There you go.

I'll boycott everything they have.

There you go. You can throw the sign at that point too.

Look at my big purple finger.

That's right. Well, I did mention Facebook and all the things out there. So if you have not yet, hit the subscribe button to The Homeowner Show there in iTunes, Stitcher, whatever off-brand—

Google Play.

Thing that Kevin's using. And you can also find us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube occasionally. We don't like to put our faces up there.

Well, we ugly. That ain't— Yeah, we ugly. There's no doubt about that. But I will tell everybody out there, we have had some issue in the video editing realm. I think I got it figured out.

It's Russian interference, y'all.

Yeah, well, I wish it was that easy. Uh, it feels a lot worse than that. But, uh, I think we got it figured out. And so we're backlogged a little bit, but, um, we're gonna get it taken care of. So, yeah, so we'll let you know.

If you like watching the videos, those will be up in the queue very short. But, but let's go ahead and let's, let's dive into some buildings. Kevin, who we got with us?

Well, tonight is our friend Mark.

How you doing, guys?

Doing good, man. We're super glad you could be with us tonight.

Yeah, so, uh, tell us, tell us a little bit about yourself and, uh, you know, what you do and all those sorts of things.

I'm a branch manager at Mueller Incorporated. We're a Texas-based company, been in business 85 years, headquartered out in West Texas in Ballinger, not far from your alma mater.

That's right, not too far.

Yeah. Um, Started off as basically a component company, meaning selling steel. We'd buy steel, hope we could sell it for more than we paid for it.

That's right.

Then got into roll forming panels, sheets, different components, and then we got into full-blown system sales, meaning pre-engineered metal buildings, engineered design bolt-together structures. And really, we started that leg of our journey, I guess, oh, about '89, 1990, and been going from there. And we started in Ballinger, like I said, 85 years ago. Now we got 35 branches.

Wow.

Uh, 4 manufacturing facilities, multiple distribution points. Um, it's a big company now.

Yeah, yeah. And you, you may have seen these places around. They're Large metal buildings that they sell metal buildings out of.

Yeah, usually right on the freeway somewhere.

That's right.

The one here is actually right just north of here, right?

Yeah, right on I-45. Yeah, then we have one, uh, in Orange. Okay, right on 10. And then one in Rosenberg. All right, on 59. So that's the closest Houston base.

Okay.

And we're kind of like that around Dallas-Fort Worth. We have 3 or 4 branches around there, yeah, and up and down I-10, I-20.

What was the name of the town that you guys started in again?

Ballinger.

Ballinger. Is that just like a thriving metropolis, or—

Well, thanks to Mueller's, it is.

They employ people there.

Yeah, Ballinger loves them some Mueller's, I can tell you that.

Well, yeah, I know. The reason I mentioned it, I mean, it's not—

It's a very small—

It's a very small town.

3,500 people.

Okay, still, like today?

Yes.

Yeah. So like Mueller's a big company now that just small comp— small town and they just grew from there.

Absolutely.

So they just, they built something for everybody in that town and then just branched out from there.

Absolutely. I mean, we have, we have not just, we have 3 and 4 year, uh, 4 generation families working for Mueller's. Wow.

Yeah. Cause it's still privately held, right?

Yeah, it is. Um, my father, uh, myself, and now my son is a branch manager in Dallas.

Cool.

And you're 3 generations.

And before the show started, you were telling us you got— you started working when you were 13, is that—

Yeah, 13, 14, freshman year.

Yeah, that's crazy. What were you doing then?

Uh, just labor work, going out into different yards doing just not very fun jobs.

The stuff that they wanted a 13, 14-year-old to do.

Yeah, hey, uh, do you know how to work a hoe? Um, no.

No, let me show you. Hit the ground with it. Yeah, yeah.

Well, so I— so you've probably done just about everything in this company at this point.

I mean, I have. I've done a lot. I really have. Yeah, I've seen it. I've seen it inside out, um, from a lot of different angles.

Yeah.

And, uh, primarily been in sales, I guess, since, oh, about '92, '93. I got in sales, and then I moved to, uh, Willis In '98, '99 as a branch manager.

Okay.

So I've been running the branch.

Okay.

Here in Willis since, since then, since about '99.

And so the, the typical— I mean, I don't even know if this is how this works for you guys, but the typical customer that walks through the door, what are they coming to you guys for?

You know, that's a good question, and it kind of depends on the customer because we sell to a lot of contractors.

Okay.

About 50%, 45% of our business, uh, Pretty much company-wide is to contractors.

Okay.

So guys in the business.

Right.

They can give you a takeoff. We put it on a sales order, manufacture it, he picks it up, we're done. Very little support really.

Yeah.

As far as design and estimating. And then we have end users. Now end user can be a homeowner.

Mm-hmm.

It can be someone that has a couple acres. It can be a church. It can be someone wanting to build a little strip center. It can be someone that has 4 or 5 acres and they want to put a mini storage facility on it. So we have a lot of those customers. 55, 60% of our business are to direct end-user sales. And those are the folks that really we're geared up to really support.

Hmm.

I mean, we're really taking complex processes, and we're trying to make them as simple as we can on the front end.

Mm-hmm.

Talking to y'all is my customer. Y'all, y'all aren't seeing everything, of course, uh, behind the scenes, what's going on just to get that quote to you. I mean, there's a lot going on. Uh, we really leverage technology as a company, always have, and we continue to. And it's taken us a long ways. It's been very fruitful for us. And it's— so when I say we're making the complex simple, that's how we're doing it.

Okay.

So people come in, I want a building.

Cool.

Yeah, let's talk, you know. And, you know, we want to visit with folks, see who we're dealing with and how best to support them. Usually, you know, basic questions are, where's your property?

Hmm.

And probably half the people that come in, they have property. They're building a house or they're in a house or getting ready to sell a house. They have a location. They have a landing point. So with those folks, it's kind of getting them down the estimating, quoting road. People that come in, hey, I want a building. In fact, they'll come in, I need a price on the building. Great. Well, let's visit. They don't need a price on the building. They need some information is what they need. They're, they're, they're, they're nowhere near ready to make a buying decision. They don't have land or they're in transition, or they're just dreaming about this. Maybe this is something they want to do 4 or 5 years from now.

Maybe the kids are getting that house and they do want to leave town. you know, and move on some acreage, get into a barndominium or build a house, but they need a metal roof on it or they, they need a workshop there. So those folks are handled differently than guys that are really, in our estimation, are getting ready to make a buying decision or make a purchase in the next 3 months, 6 months. So everything we do, it's, it's really down the road. You know, before we see the fruits of what we're doing, before the customer sees the fruits of what we're doing. It's a process. It's nothing like going into a car dealership. I'm thinking about buying a car. Well, you're probably gonna leave

there with a car. It's just not like that.

You're not gonna walk into Mueller and, I want the red one.

No.

Right?

Yeah, yeah, you're not at all. Yeah, front, front and rear disc. No, it's not like that. Yeah, you know, and, and, and I want to say also, because this is informational show, That in the metal building business, it's gotten a little greasy over the last 10, 15 years. Really with the advent of the internet. Whoever's listening to us, don't buy building off the internet.

Okay.

That is just a horrible idea and you're gonna have horrible results and you're not— folks just aren't gonna be happy.

Okay, so let's talk about that for just a minute.

Okay.

Because I think the natural inclination for a good, a good portion of the world these days, because how easy it is, I'm thinking about this at 9 o'clock at night, everybody's kind of starting to go to bed around me, I'm gonna look into metal buildings. Well, they're gonna do it online.

We want them to.

Okay, but you want them to go to Mueller.com?

Go to MuellerInc.com.

MuellerInc.com.

Get educated.

Okay.

Run some quotes. Get in contact with their closest sales branch. Get in contact with the salesperson. Get in contact with that branch manager. Let them kind of Help guide them as to what they need to do. What are the steps to the sale?

Sure.

What do you need? Well, you need land. Okay, cool. Got that. You need a way to develop that land, prepare it some way for a job site. Do you have any permitting concerns? County, city, whatnot? And county's getting more and more into that than they used to be. Okay. Once you have a building, do you have an erector? Who's going to put it up for you? What are you going to do with the building once it's up? Is it something you're just going to park a car in, you know, a mower, whatever? Or is it something you're going to finish out? Well, what are you doing with it? We wanted, we have to know all this, all this information.

You're not getting that stuff on the internet.

Exactly. Before we'll even talk about price.

Yeah.

Because all of that is all relevant to price. I mean, we're designing an engineered structure with the wet stamp by a Texas engineer. So there's a lot of liability. We just can't willy-nilly design and sell buildings. I can't sell something in the Panhandle of Oklahoma at the same loading and design criteria as Galveston, Texas. It's 2 different worlds.

Sure.

You know, or in Colorado where they got a 30-pound snow load versus Midland, Texas. You know, where they don't know what snow is. So we have to know all this information and that, that's, that's where we, that is our ideal way. That's where we want to get folks. Okay. It's the understanding. Yeah. This is a big deal. You're not just buying a pair of shoes. You're not just buying a car. It is, it is all.

But on top of that, y'all are providing a service that, that coincides with that, that you're just not going to get online and On top of that, and this is, you know, really one of the questions I wanna ask is, I mean, we're talking about 100% prefab to where all you gotta do is literally— I mean, I say you, whoever's putting it together, they gotta line holes up and put a screw in there. Am I right about that?

Or is it—

Absolutely. So, this is part of the difference in just any random online store and Mueller is you're getting 100% custom. And, or at least something that's been made custom at some point, and you know that at the end of the day it's going to work. And if it doesn't, again, you've got someone to come back to and say, we have some problems.

Absolutely.

Okay.

Absolutely. In, in, in everything we're providing, it's a service. We're only charging for the material.

Wow.

You know, I, you know, I tell my guys and we talk about it within the company, and I, and I try to get folks to come to the store to understand Really, we're kind of selling a service in a way, and the building is just the fallout of that, or in order just to fall out of it.

Yeah.

We want folks to really trust us. We really want to provide that assurance. We really want to be a trusted advisor is what we want to be.

Yeah.

I was gonna, I was gonna say, I mean, because, and we were talking about this a little bit before, but all those things that you were talking about, like, do you have any permits or requirements? What, you know, what's the snow load on the building? All these kinds of things. I think a lot of people's inclination when they start hearing you pepper them with questions about stuff like that would be, okay, he's looking to upsell me on something. But these are not things that you necessarily do. It's information that you're looking so that you can put them in the right building.

Mm-hmm.

Right? So now you're not looking to like, hey, I'll, for a fee, I'll go get your permit for you or anything like that. Or like, hey, for a fee, we'll, we'll prepare that land for you. You're just trying to make sure that they're ready for what they're saying, what the, Absolutely.

And despite our best efforts, we have people that convince us that, man, they're ready for a building. I mean, they're ready. In fact, we'll do rush requests, we'll fast-track it, we get ready to deliver it, year and a half later, it's still not delivered.

Oh my gosh.

They never got permits.

Yeah.

You know, even though we discussed it.

Yeah.

Or they went to get permits and they can't put a metal building on it. The permitting office won't even approve it. It's a commercial or it's a residential. That's a commercial. Just nightmares. Yeah, absolute nightmares. So we're really trying to help folks avoid that.

Yeah, you know, and is this, is this an issue that you see cropping up with maybe some more of the more trying to press volume sales guys online?

Oh, absolutely.

You know, they, because they don't care.

Yeah.

I mean, really, I mean, like—

No, no, no. Yeah, no, no, these guys are hard closers.

Mm-hmm.

And they're only— they're the person you're talking to It's at a phone bank.

Mm-hmm.

High volume, high pressure. That guy's job, his only job is to get a deposit, get the 25% deposit, get the purchase agreement signed, and he's on to the next phone call. He's, he's forgot about you, you know, in 2 minutes. And, and we're seeing more and more of this.

Okay.

And folks can go online and just Google lawsuits, metal buildings. Whatnot deposits. And it's really getting bad out there. Yeah, it is. Um, so that's why I say do not buy building strictly off, just offline, just off of strictly.com. And there's other companies that are good companies that have websites.

Sure.

And they have stores, they have brick-and-mortar stores. I'm just saying, just don't do it purely online. If you can't sit down face-to-face with somebody, at a facility, look at their samples, look at the brochures, talk to the guy, get— try to get a good impression. Do you trust this guy or not?

Yeah.

Is he going to be here when I have that problem that we're talking about? Something doesn't fit, what do you— what are they going to do about it, right? You know, warranties. Warranties are a huge issue. Huge, huge, uh, issue for us. Not an issue, it's, um, it's important to us.

Okay.

That if we have a warranty, it is a true Warranty, and it's exactly what it says it is. We have— we manufacture different items like roll-up doors, ridge vents. That's 2 things come to mind. Well, they have a 1-year workmanship warranty. If they quit working on day 364, you're getting a new door.

Okay.

And usually labor isn't involved in our warranty or anybody else's warranty, but we're gonna do all we can to help folks. I mean, we actually— I had a guy— I have half a call Uh, on my voicemail at work in the morning. I sold a guy a building, had 2 roll-up doors. They had issues when they installed it, and I actually got an installer out there, a roll-up door installer out there, didn't charge them anything. They still had concerns. I told them, look, you got a year warranty, call me. He's calling, they're having another issue with it. Well, he's getting a new door.

Okay. Yeah.

You know. He's getting a new door.

So how long ago was that, or do you recall?

Yeah, it's probably 9, 9 and a half months ago. Okay. Yeah, something like that. Um, our paint warranties— well, really our finish warranties, because we have Galvalume, which is unpainted. It's a finished film, but it's not a paint. What's Galvalume? Well, like, if you can imagine, like, little galvanized panels.

Right.

That's similar to Galvalume, but Galvalume's better. That has a 20-year rust-through warranty. All of our paints have a 30-year adhesion warranty. So if they chip, if they flake, disadhere, anything within that 30-year warranty, and it's a, it's a true claim, you didn't drop a bowling ball on it or a tree limb didn't fall on it or something It's a manufacturer problem. You're getting a new roof.

Right.

You're getting a brand new roof.

Okay.

And like all the branch managers are the direct contact for all of our warranty concerns, which is a good thing.

Oh wow.

Because none of our warranties are passed through. Most warranties, this is just, I'm talking about, this is very broad in the warranty world. Most warranties are pass-through warranties. I had a guy— What does that mean? Well, that means I had a guy Uh, what was it? It must have been an alternator in it, and his vehicle was still under warranty. They gave him Delco's phone number.

Okay.

I mean, this was a big 3 car manufacturer. That's a pass-through warranty.

Okay, meaning like the person that sold you the item is not warrantying the item. They have sold you a warranty through another company.

Exactly.

Gotcha.

It's third-party pass-through, however you want to say it.

Yeah.

So with Mueller's, all of our warranties, they're not pass-through and they're not prorated.

Okay. Okay.

Most warranties out there, especially roofing or siding, they're prorated. Yes.

Most things that have a long warranty are prorated. That's right.

They're prorated.

Well, you know, and I don't, I actually don't think that term has come up on the show before. It might be, it might be helpful just to, for people that don't know what prorated means.

Well, prorated, let's say you have a $10,000 roof and, uh, I'm not a mathematician.

Sure. Yeah.

But let's say that it's going to be prorated over 30 years. So each year, it's losing that portion. So $10,000 divided by 30. Mm-hmm.

Come on, Kevin. Each—

Oh, you're asking me?

No, I'm just saying.

I'm asking you because I want to know what the prorated warranty would be.

Okay, so after year 1, your roof is less this much, right? After year 2, this much. And it's increments of 30 divided by 10,000 in this example.

Right.

So by the time you get to 29, you're getting 1 year's worth of warranty value. That's what a prorated—

That's what they'll pay out.

Exactly.

Right.

Yeah. But Mueller doesn't work that way.

Oh no, no, absolutely. And I'm being serious. You can call us 29 and a half years later. If you have a paint claim, you're getting a new roof.

Wow.

Or you're getting new siding, whatever we sold you.

Sure.

Yeah, that's gonna be taken care of.

Yeah, that's incredible that, you know, and, and one of the things that I hope everyone who's listening is hearing is that this, this is not just a company that's gonna sell you something and say good luck. They're gonna— they're going to make sure what they sell you is the right thing for you. They're taking care of the front of it, the back of it, As far as the front end of the sale, the back end of the sale, and then they're going to take care of you all the way through the warranty. And most likely even after that you come and say we got a problem, they're going to figure out a way to help you.

Absolutely. Yeah, we do it every day. It just happens when you're in the construction business, and we are in a way. It just happens. Things happen.

Yeah.

Despite everybody's best efforts. And we absolutely knock ourselves dead, kill ourselves To keep folks happy.

Okay.

And it doesn't matter about the money. It doesn't matter what it's going to cost. If we think the right thing is to help that person, we're going to help them.

Yeah.

Warranty or not, contract or not, purchase agreement or not, we're— we are going to step in and do the right thing.

I love that. I mean, that— Craig and I were just talking, um, just the other day about, about a company that has great customer service, and there's a reason we use that company over and over and over.

Oh yeah.

And I think that that's exactly what you're talking about, just taking care of your customer, making sure that they have their needs met. Those sorts of things are huge.

That's right.

So, let's talk about some of these buildings specifically. So, as I mentioned, my sister and her husband are looking to build a new home, and they're going to build it out of a metal structure.

Right.

Why would someone want to build a metal structure home, a barndominium, as, you know, it's being termed these days, Why would you build one of those over a traditional brick-and-mortar type of home?

You know, they're cost-effective. They go up quick. Again, less labor. Slab designs, you're gonna spend a little bit more on a slab than typical house slab, but not much. All the engineering factors, we can tell you specifically what wind load your barndominium is built to.

Okay.

Good luck with the house builder. That's not happening. Longevity, it's gonna look nice. It's gonna perform for you. Our panels have a UL 2218 impact warranty rating. What does that mean? That's the highest impact rating of any roof surface.

Okay.

So shingle, tile, TPS, whatever stamp, doesn't matter. And those, I'm not saying some of those don't have a Class 4, but I'm saying Class 4 is as high as you can get.

Right.

So, um, it, the, the building is going to perform for you. It absolutely is.

Okay.

And when they're done right, they're very energy efficient. I mean, all of our paints, um, or have CoolPly paint technology, they're all Energy Star rated. So between them, kind of getting off into the world of roofing But that's okay because it still applies to buildings.

Sure.

You know, between energy savings and insurance reduction because of the impact rating, it's working for you.

Yeah.

It is. And then once the building's up, okay, I got a shell of a building. Great. No, that is great because now you can come in, you could put walls anywhere you want because nothing's load-bearing at that point. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah.

All your loads are carried through the rafters and the columns.

Okay.

So instead of maybe using 2x6s, 2x8s, 2x12s— and I'm not a framer and I'm not a lumber guy— maybe you can use 2x4s.

Okay.

For your interior walls.

So you're saving money on those?

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And then you get, you get the advantage of clear span. When you're going with lumber, I don't know what it is, there's some figure out there, 20, 25 foot, there's a number, there's a number out there Which just gets very, very expensive to clear span with lumber.

Yeah.

Right?

Really expensive.

Not so with steel.

Oh.

We, we can do these, as far as concerning the house, um, we can do these clear spans, these 40, 50-foot clear spans, and you just got an open floor area.

So you're saying it's the same, you're gonna spend the same price per foot or whatever, per inch, whatever it is, you're just, it's a different span. Is that what you're telling me?

Well, I'm saying when you can do wider and greater clear spans, you use less material.

Okay, gotcha.

Yeah, and so when going with steel, that's what you get.

Okay.

Um, then you come in and finish the walls out, exterior walls, interior walls, just like you would any other structure.

Okay.

There's some systems out there more geared towards metal buildings, but really just, just going in with 2x4 walls and framing it out independent of the steel frame, insulating it, sheetrocking it. So people are like, man, I'm building a building in a building. No, no, you're really not. You're really building a facade inside a building.

Okay.

Right? You're doing the same thing as you would if you're building a house.

Right.

So those are, those are really the, the things that we see people gravitate towards as to why they pick a metal building to finish out and live in, barndominium versus traditional.

So there's a, there's a good chance, I mean, because this is just, you know, go back to the, to the, uh, to, to the old, you know, the, the pigs and the wolf, right? They're gonna huff and puff and blow the house down, right? So, so you're telling me that, that these metal roofs, and not just the roofs, the, the metal structures are every bit as reliable and safe and all of those things as what you— we would consider a traditional brick-and-mortar home?

Oh, more so.

Okay.

Oh yeah. I mean, we, we'll, we'll stamp, we'll engineer up to 140-mile-an-hour wind load.

Wow.

Which you're not— you're not—

That's an actual wind load. That's not some guesstimate. Again, every, every one of our buildings stamped with a Texas engineer. Texas engineer that works for Mueller's. That's another thing. We don't outsource design, engineering, everything, and everybody involved is a Mueller employee.

Oh wow. Yeah, and if you live in West Texas, you need those 140-mile-an-hour wind loads.

Yeah, West Texas, but really on the coastal areas, you know.

Sure.

Yeah, sure. Yeah, really on the coastal areas. That's where we really get into the higher wind loads. And every time we have a hurricane, All these cities, they go through revisions. Everything's going up. Conroe's up to 100 or better now.

Really?

I moved here 85, 90, 20 years ago.

Wow.

Yeah.

Is that because the past couple of storms we've seen, some of them just didn't hold up? Okay. It was because Ike— Okay.

Ike raised the criteria. Yeah, it sure did.

Wow.

We've had a couple of storms that have just changed everything. The way we do stuff around here.

Yes, they have. But, but I, I, you know, I think that's something really to think about because, um, it— there, there's a lot of appeal to, to what you're saying.

Oh, there is.

And, and whenever you're talking about getting something that is potentially stronger— not potentially stronger, it's stronger.

Oh yeah.

It's safer, it's less money, and you can put it on your own land, then you, you've got an opportunity That people that are just looking to buy in a neighborhood, you don't get the same opportunity with that.

No, you don't. You don't. Yeah, so there's a lot of advantages.

And you're getting someone from start to finish who's not just looking after you from a contractor standpoint of, we're going to build this well. You know that the material you're getting is top-notch as well. I think a lot of people don't recognize that. Some of these homes, it just, they just go up there. They're using cheap material. And you get what you get. And then if you wind up having an issue, you don't get a 30-year warranty on your home if you buy it new.

No, no, you don't. You know, and you'll have warranties maybe on your shingle roof.

Sure.

Well, it's prorated.

Sure.

I've been through it.

It is.

And if your house blows away, there's not an engineer seal to fall back on.

Yeah.

Have we ever had a claim on wind?

No.

Hmm. Wow.

No. And I'm not saying our buildings are hurricane-proof or tornado-proof. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying that's, again, in 25 years I've dealt with a lot of claims. I've never dealt with the Wow, that's impressive.

Are you guys, are you guys seeing or experiencing any pushback from like— I'm trying to think of like a regular cookie-cutter neighborhood, right? Like say I bought a lot in one of those, are you guys seeing any pushback from like HOAs and things like that about putting your buildings up as, as a home?

Mm.

I would imagine some people, some places have rules and things like that, or is that changing?

No, it is. And really in the more urban areas, you're typically not gonna see a metal building Is the shell of the house, right? You're just not gonna see it.

Well, I was gonna say, like, up on this side of town, I don't see it a whole lot. No, downtown I'm starting to see it more, where it— like, where they're starting to tear down older homes, they're coming back through with newer ones that are, you know, they're not completely metal, but they have metal facades on them and different things like that.

And they do. And, and, oh, wherever you go— oh, you can go down to Houston, kind of on the, uh, West side of downtown, there are huge neighborhoods. They're all metal.

Okay.

Yeah, well, really it's metal sheeting.

Okay.

So they're stick-built.

Okay, still framed up wood.

It looks like a steel building. That's what people think, man, those are steel buildings. Yeah, not quite.

And so if you, if you see something—

A lot of metal.

No, I think, I think that's important to know because if you, if you see something like that, you might go, oh, I heard on the podcast that those are stronger buildings. Well, you probably need to get in there and, and you know, inspect and look and, you know, how's this thing actually built?

Yeah, that's right. Absolutely.

Yeah, so, um, you know, the general homeowner at this point probably doesn't have land they're out there looking for.

What?

Maybe, maybe some people are really looking into that. Uh, my sister is. But, um, man, I just need a, uh, I need a shed out back. And I need something to, to, to put my lawnmower in, things like that.

Yeah.

And, and I know that I, I go to Lowe's, I go to Home Depot, I go to these big box stores, and I see out in their parking lot they got 15 different options for me to buy, and they're prefab as well. What, what is the difference in, in those types of things and me coming to Mueller and saying, hey, I need a, I need a building to be able to put in my backyard?

Yeah, we have a backyard line.

Okay.

Yeah, we do. They start at 6 by 9. 9 by 12, 12 by 15, uh, up to 18 by 21, 18 by 22, somewhere in there.

And then that—

and they really are, as far as all of our products, they're geared towards DIY.

Okay. Okay.

So everything is pre-cut, everything's punched, meaning it bolts together. Got a pretty good set of instructions, good videos online. Putting more and more videos together on YouTube, and when I say online, I mean MuellerInc.com, to where folks can take that package, pick it up from the store, take it home, and assemble it. So those are neat little kits, and the good thing, it's basically all the same materials as we would put in one of our pre-engineered metal buildings.

Okay.

It's basically the same components.

You're getting, you're getting good quality stuff.

Oh, absolutely.

Is there potential— I just don't know, I've never done this— is there potential that you're gonna have an issue with holes lining up or whatever in some of these prefab buildings from a big box store compared to Mueller, and you're still gonna get the same customer service? I call up, I've got an issue with this, how do I resolve it?

Yeah, I'll be out there at their house in a day or so.

Okay.

Yeah, so that's how we resolve it.

The Lowe's customer service guy does not do that for me.

No.

He hasn't yet, at least.

No, that's not gonna happen. That's certainly not gonna happen. If I can't figure it out, I'll bring a contractor that can figure it out.

Okay.

We'll get it resolved.

Okay.

Absolutely.

So that's a whole nother question. I think that is something I wanna talk about for a moment is, what if I come and I say, hey, I'm thinking about buying a barndominium. I've got some land. That's really all I've got. You're gonna help walk through the process, but I don't know a builder. I don't know a plumber, I don't know an electrician, I don't know anybody. Is that something that I then need to start go, go try to find, or do y'all have people that do that, or do you have suggestions? What's— what is your process for helping me get my building built?

Yes, we have a referral list.

Okay.

It's a referral list of Mueller-qualified contractors.

Okay, what does that mean?

Well, most of these guys have been— some of them have been buying us for 20, 25 years. I'm talking about Specific to my branch.

Okay.

And every branch has their own list.

Wow.

Um, oh, we— yeah, right now there's probably 13, 14 guys on there. They can absolutely do anything you want with a steel building. And I got 3 or 4, they can— once your building's up, if you want, if you want them to hand you the keys to move in with your family, they can do it.

They can do all of it.

They can do it all.

A to Z.

A to Z.

And the nice thing about that then is, is you've got a guy that's being endorsed by Mueller, at least in the fact that you've got them on a list and you're saying—

Yeah, they are. They're on a list. They are independent contractors.

Sure.

I just need to get all this clear.

They're not employees.

Yeah, they work for y'all or they work for the customer. They don't work for Mueller's.

But they've worked with y'all for a long time?

Oh, absolutely. Hundreds, thousands of projects with some of these guys.

Okay.

And if folks will kind of go through our It's not really a process. If they'll just kind of let us lead them down the path to, I'm thinking about this now, this is what I'm thinking about now, we're doing some renderings now, we're doing some estimating now, we're on the 3D design tool that's on our website, MuellerInc.com, to now you're sitting at my desk, we're running quotes and, and we're, we're getting close. To be able to give you firm 30-day pricing. At that point, that's when most people are ready for a contractor.

Okay.

Because it's not gonna do them any good to call one of these guys if you're 6 months out, 9 months out, a year out. We can give you enough information, even guesstimations on labor, slab, things like that, to kind of help you determine if that's a path you want to go. We have a referral release, just a little single-page document, just saying basically what I said. These guys work for you, they don't work for Mueller's.

Sure.

Sign that, we give you the contractor list. And there's a lot of, like I said, there's probably 13, 14, 15 guys on our list. A lot of times it comes down to who's closest to the project, or we kind of, you know, we know what guys specialize in. who's 4, 5, 6 months out, who's 2, 3 weeks out, kind of who might be the best fit. So we might make 3 or 4 or 4 or 5 suggestions off that list, but it, it's up to the individual to call these guys and vet them to whatever comfort level they need to vet them at.

Sure.

But it is a— it, it's a qualified contractor list. It's, it's not a business card up at Lowe's or Home Depot.

Mm-hmm.

You know, taking it off the bulletin and there's a contractor.

Sure.

And do you—

you've mentioned slabs a couple times now. Do most of these buildings, do you guys require a slab? Do they need, I mean, do they have to have a slab?

Well, they require an anchor point. So whether that's just purely on a pier or a pier that's encompassed in a slab, it's one or the other.

Okay.

Which is why some slabs wind up being a little bit more expensive because they're having to manufacture the pier or the anchor point within the slab.

Yeah, it's, I mean, a typical house slab, 4-inch, 5-inch, it's a true floating slab. And with a metal building, again, going back to your loads, all your loads are being carried by your rafters and your columns and into the pier. That's the whole process of engineering a building. We want the loads to get into the pier.

Right.

I'm saying that because, yeah, you're right, the piers and then you have a floating slab. It's all one slab, but, but it's just a little different than the house slab. You understand what I'm saying?

Yeah, sure.

Okay. Um, so yeah, we got guys that do that. We got guys that can just take a raw piece of land and do anything you want. Or if you got your brother-in-law does slabs and he's good, he's gonna form it up and pour, that's great. We got guys who When the building delivers, they'll be there. They'll put it up. They'll be on their way. Like I said, then we got other guys, man, they can do any kind of finish out that, that you could think of.

And then we've said barndominium a couple of times. So I assume we can go 2-story. Can we go 3-story?

Nah, you wouldn't want to do that.

Wouldn't want to do that. No.

In Texas, you can spread out more cheaper than you can go up. People that go up, it's usually just pure aesthetics and they're not too worried about money.

Sure.

Yeah. You know, they just want it to look cool. Okay.

Yeah.

Some kind of observation tower, observation deck. That's 30 foot off. Okay. That's cool.

Yeah.

So it's not, it's not, it's not that you can't do it. It's just not cost-effective.

It's just not conducive. It didn't.

Okay. Yeah.

Concerning price. Cause, cause really land's so cheap in Texas compared to other states, you can absolutely just spread it out wider, go longer. Cheaper than you can go up.

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense for sure.

Well, and then I know that we haven't talked— we've mentioned it a few times when we talk about roofs, but you guys do custom metal roofs that can be installed on any home, right?

Yes, and probably 85-90% of the true roof sales that we have, yeah, they're just going on Residential structures. Yeah, just any shape, size that you can dream of.

So do you guys have roofing companies that are selling those, installing those for you guys? Are you guys installing them? How's that work?

No, again, we're a manufacturer. So we're gonna help you through the design process, help pick out the best panel, work up a good quote for you. The way we come up, we have different ways just at the desk to give folks guesstimates, estimates off prints, off plans, even off square footage.

Mm-hmm.

Then when it comes down to it, getting a firm 30-day price, we want to do a site visit. So for a fee, $165, we'll come out, actually get on the roof, take the measurements, do everything, put it in our software, give you a 30-day quote with overhead view of the roof and a complete takeoff. Every panel, every piece of trim, every flashing, every seal tape, every closure, every screw. So it is a complete Takeoff. Then when you buy it, you get your $165 back.

Oh, okay.

So again, once we have a site visit completed and we have a roof quote in hand, sign a referral list and we got a contractor for you.

Okay.

Here are the guys that do roofs. And again, kind of, we know what guy does, maybe does more standing seam than concealed fastener versus exposed fastener. We can kind of guide them But we, again, we want folks to select who they want and again vet them to their comfort level when they make a decision and hire them.

Sure. So the price I get from Mueller is not going to include that installation by that?

That's correct.

So, and because I, just because I know roofs can be kind of tricky, do I have to use your guy in order to keep my warranty on my roof?

No, warranty's on the paint.

Okay.

Warranty's on the paint, but somebody doesn't know what they're doing, they will tear the paint up.

Hmm, okay.

And that, and that won't be covered?

No, no. I mean, so tear paint up, what are you talking about? It's metal. Well, it is, but run a key down your car.

Sure.

Yeah, you know, in Ford or Chevrolet, they're not covering that, right? I mean, right, you tore the paint up.

Whereas if we use the guy that you recommended, we know who to yell at.

They know. Well, they just know how to treat the material. Yeah, they've done You know, on a house roof, one thing that's real critical is that we deliver it the day that it's starting.

Okay.

We don't want panels sitting out there for 4 or 5 days, 6 days, 2 weeks, especially in our climate.

Right.

Just in our climate during the summer, the heat of the summer, just stacking sheets—

They'll cook it.

On your driveway or on your yard, the humidity level, moisture Moisture will penetrate through the sheets. You wouldn't— how can they do that? Well, it does.

Yeah, it just does.

And it absolutely devastates the paint. It's called wet field storage. Anytime metal that's stacked gets wet, and it doesn't take much time, sure, you pull your sheets off and you're pulling the paint off at the same time.

Oh my gosh.

People always ask me, man, well, how it's exposed to— it's different when it's on— when you're Panel is on your roof, it's getting wet, it's draining, it's drying, right? It's not just sitting there, right, stack of metal staying moist.

Sure. Uh, what's the same reason after you cook something in a pan, you pour water in it and leave it overnight so you can clean it out?

Yeah, that's right. You know, that's how it happens.

That's exactly how it happens.

Oh, okay.

Bill Nye showed me one time.

And then the, the way, uh, panels are cut, the way trim's cut, That, that, that can affect the paint. You know, if you're, um, my, uh, brother-in-law, he cut all of his metal with a skill saw and a metal blade. Okay, great. But you just ruined your paint.

Brother, brother-in-laws.

Yeah, that's right.

Um, every time.

Every time.

Yeah. Screw shavings. That's another one I see on crews that don't know what they're doing. You need to clean the roof every day. Again, especially in our climate, make sure the roof, the work area swept off every day. And then once the job's completed, same thing happens. Those are kind of the things I see when I go out to paint claims. If, if there's an issue that's not truly paint performance related, those are kind of the issues. So using somebody off our list, you're not gonna have those issues.

Gotcha.

And we don't have a— again, we don't have a contract, we don't have a warranty, we don't have anything documented. If one of our contractors messed something up Number one, they're gonna take care of it.

Yeah.

Yeah, right.

Or else they're not gonna be on the list. Yeah. But number two, if they don't, we're— again, we're gonna do everything we can to resolve the issue. Okay. If someone has truly used our process, let us do the site visit, let us give them the quote, get the referral release, get the contractor list to them, let, you know, let us kind of manage things. If they do that, we're gonna take care of them. Okay. You know.

Well, what have we, uh, not covered that you're interested in, in someone knowing about Mueller, how you do things, what you, what you do, anything like that?

You know, just a little bit on product. As far as house roofs, a standing seam has become more and more prevalent, and it's an excellent, excellent option for a metal roof. Standing seam is a floating roof system. Clips are adhered to the decking, and then the panels are snapped over the clips, so the whole thing is floating. Oh, so what does that mean? Well, metal expands and contracts, right? When it's a floating system, everything's floating, nothing's pinching, screws aren't pulling out.

Hmm.

Like on it, just a very, very typical exposed fastener. So anybody that's looking at a house roof, start with the standing seam. Let's see, let's see if that will fit your needs. If that doesn't, then a concealed fastener. Concealed fastener is still screwed down, but the panels are clipped over to conceal the fasteners.

Okay.

So it's not a standing seam, but it's not an exposed fastener. So one of those 2 options are what we like to see on the house roof.

Okay.

Decking, decking concerns. If you're building a new home, use 3/4, 7/8 plywood. Don't use CDX and don't use less than 3/4. With metal roofing, if we took a— trying to find something— if we took shingles and put over that wall, it's a stud wall, Radio Land, and you put shingles over there, mm-hmm, it's gonna look smooth. We put a metal panel over that, you're gonna see every deflection.

Hmm.

Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So that's why the concerns on the decking, you need thicker decking. And you want to use plywood.

Okay.

Not CDX. And then there are underlayments specific to metal roofs that you want to be sure you use, not just 20 or 30-pound felt. Reason is everywhere felt overlaps, you'll see that line.

In the metal?

In the metal.

Gotcha.

It deflects. You don't want to use plastic caps, the typical orange caps that you see now. For your underlayment, you want to use the old tin caps. The ones that about the size of a silver dollar. Yeah, 18-20 gauge, you know, galvanized tin cap. You want to make sure you use that because again, plastic caps will deflect a panel. Okay, so those are some, some things on house roofs as far as building a new home that folks need to think about.

Yeah, so I mean, like, if you're— I guess if you're replacing your old roof with a metal roof from y'all and you, you know, you start peeling shingles off and you've got, you know, that composite underneath there, you're gonna want to replace that as well?

Well, you— or do an overlay.

Okay.

You know, if you got a 5/8 CDX, well, let's put some quarter-inch plywood over the top.

Gotcha. Okay.

And run it opposite directions, and that's always a good remedy.

Sure.

Other people, they don't want to take a shingle roof off. Well, they'll lath it. And that's fine with some of our panels, and they're all exposed fasteners, more old-school type roofs. That's fine. You can leave a shingle roof up there, you know. Again, we're not home builders, but typically if you have 1 or 2 layers of shingles, you can lath it.

Okay.

And put an R-panel, U-panel, corrugated roof over it.

So you have to go take it all off?

Yeah, but, um, but we— I mean, ideally we want a roof stripped off.

Yeah.

We want the tar paper stripped off, get it down to original decking. Let's see what's in there. For one thing, you might have repairs you don't know about.

Exactly.

Yeah, I mean, people run into that a lot.

We ran into that when we replaced the roof on this thing. Yeah, we had several spots we had to replace decking and all kinds of stuff.

Yeah, so ideally take, take it down to the decking, repair what you need. If you need to build it up, like I said, you know, you could do it with some quarter-inch plywood and then put your metal on top.

Okay, awesome.

Well, and before, before we got started today, I mean, one of the, one of the reasons we were even talking is because our mutual friend Lynn was telling me about this, this really cool building giveaway that you guys do every year.

Oh yeah. Yeah, Helping Hands.

Yeah, and so tell us a little bit about— because you were telling us the application's about to start for this thing.

I think it is. It's usually April, May. Helping Hands, this is our— this will be our 11th building. Okay, 11th year. Uh, we do it in cooperation with, uh, Bob Phillips and Texas Country Reporter.

Okay.

Um, he's a big part of that, him and his wife. And it's, it's a matter of folks, uh, nonprofits Uh, going online, MuellerInc.com, and there'll be a tab for Helping Hands. Click into that tab and the application process is there.

Okay.

And we have hundreds of people, hundreds of group people, hundreds of groups rather, uh, that fill out applications every year. And every year it's getting more and more and more, which is great. And there's a selection process done, done at home office, uh, by Mr. Davenport Bob's involved, Mike Fry, another guy at home office, he's involved. They whittle through everybody and they select someone and they get a Mueller Metal building. And it's not just Mueller Metal building, but we actually erect it.

Okay.

And it's kind of a neat deal for us because it's not one of our contractors erecting it, it's all the branch managers.

Oh, cool, cool.

So we'll have 25, 30 branch managers there, uh, we'll have 15, 20 people from home office and just different departments and all You know, there's usually about 50, 55 of us there for a week. Well, it's not a week. We start Monday morning and we are done Thursday.

Oh wow.

And it doesn't matter what size building it is, we've always gotten it done. And then these are nice buildings, like 60 wide, 60 wide, 100 long, 15, 16-foot eaves, overhangs, soffits, wainscots, insulated. I mean, these are like really, really nice buildings. Now we're not just giving away a 40 by 50 shop with one framed opening, you know. Yeah, yeah, they really are nice buildings.

Do you remember who won it last year?

Oh, if you wouldn't ask, I could tell you.

Or any, any one of those that like stands out in your mind that you've been doing it all these years?

Yeah, we did one in San Marcos. It was a lot of fun, and it was for mental health Mm-hmm. Emotional help, mental help, psychiatric help, psychology help. Free clinic.

Oh wow.

That was a fun one. We did one in— what, in Orange? It's Beaumont. And I believe I have the, the right folks that we gave it to. It was a home for adolescent people with like Down syndrome.

Okay.

And things like that to where they could come hang out, like a little community center.

Yeah.

We've done several food banks. Food banks are always fun. The first one we ever did was really neat up in Titus County. Titus County Cares, I think, is the name of it. They would prepare food for kids to be picked up Friday at school, and it'd be enough food to get them through the weekend.

Mm-hmm.

These kids were so poor, families so poor, they wouldn't eat during the weekend. Once they left school, they didn't get another meal.

Mm-hmm.

Till Monday.

Wow.

So this facility was used to store the food, bring in the food, Organize it and load these backpacks.

That's incredible.

Yeah, that's fantastic.

Yeah, so it's usually really, really neat organizations that we get involved with. That probably need help getting—

oh, absolutely. Yeah, so that's fantastic.

Absolutely. Uh, we've done 2 or 3, uh, medical clinics where MDs put their time, whatever. They're, they're, they're, they're— I guess they rotate around because they'll have medical coverage at these clinics, uh, Pretty much 24/7, 7 days a week. They're doing it, of course, on all volunteer basis and just serving these low, uh, unfortunate communities that don't have a lot of medical care. People don't have money for medical care.

Sure.

So it's always a really neat organization. That's cool.

Well, cool. Well, uh, let's move into the last little segment that we've got here. We do every, every single—

Everybody's favorite.

Yeah, the final The final 4.

The final 4.

Yeah, so these are 4 questions we ask each of our listeners— sorry, each of our guests.

Listeners, you can answer along as well.

Yeah, just shout out your answers wherever you are. Yeah, so 4 questions we ask all of our guests, and so we'll just jump right into these. Question number 1 is, what's the must-have tool you won't leave your house without? iPhone, uh, you know what, car keys.

Yeah, I'm not a home— I'm not a DIY guy, surprisingly. I'm really not. Okay, you know, so maybe I can bring a screwdriver with me.

Yeah, you never know.

Or a tape measure. And if you need more than that, um, we'll call some— we'll give you a referral.

How about that?

Qualified Mueller contractor. I'll bring them along.

I think we need this on We should start publishing some online stats because the iPhone has definitely been like the number one answer for this.

It's definitely going up there. Well, there's just so many things that your phone is useful for.

Yeah, it is a tape measure now. It is.

It really is. It's spotlight, tape measure, level. I got all kinds of things. I'll get on a roof and if I don't have it, go to the App Store and I got it in 2 or 3 minutes. It's really something.

If you don't have it, you can order it from there too.

That's right.

All right, second question. What's a job you've walked away from? Now, this doesn't necessarily have to be a career, uh, or a job that Mueller specifically has done, but, but maybe even just something, uh, in your own home, something that you said, I'm not gonna deal with that. What's a job you've walked away from?

Mmm, I fell through the roof after Ike.

Oh my goodness.

Through the ceiling.

Jeez.

Oof.

And—

were you like walking in the attic or something?

I was, and I was telling my son, Do not step on the sheetrock. Stay on the joists.

Yeah, do as I do.

Soon as I said that, I was on the floor of his room.

Oh my goodness, that felt fantastic, didn't it?

Yeah.

Did you go all the way through?

I went all the way through.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, yeah, I hit the carpet.

Oh wow.

Yeah, so, um, I took, uh, duct tape and a black garbage bag. That's how I repaired that. So that's a job I walked away from.

Okay. It worked.

There comes a point in time when you go, that made me so mad, I can't go back to it.

Yeah, that's right.

I can't go back to it. All right, all right. That's, that's the most— one of the most unique answers we've had.

One of these days I'll have to tell you guys a story about the raccoon that fell through the ceiling on me.

Oh, so a live raccoon?

Although I just kind of told the story.

Yeah, okay. Now that we're doing that, moving on. Number 3, how do you wind down at the end of a long day?

Oh, I like to sit outside, relax with my dogs, work with my dogs. They love playing ball, playing fetch.

Yeah.

Walking my dogs. I don't know. I guess I'm a dog guy, you know?

Yeah.

Typically that's what I'm doing after work.

Okay. There you go.

On a typical weekday.

Okay, great. That sounds fun. All right, last question. You're almost, you're almost done here. What's one of the best pieces of wisdom or advice that you've ever received?

You never know who you'll be working for.

Hmm, okay.

What does that mean to you?

What, what does it mean to me? Uh, don't, don't get in a territorial match with a coworker or a cross-department coworker or Maybe somebody up the food chain that, uh, he's not in your sphere or, or realm of operations. You never know.

Yeah, things could change.

Things can change quick.

Yeah.

And I've seen it happen. And, uh, that, that was advice that was given to me, I guess, 25, 30 years ago. And I've always remembered it. And I've actually seen people being put in positions they never thought they'd be. in by, oh my God, that guy's my boss now.

Wow.

You know? Yeah.

So I've always kind of kept that one close.

There you go.

Okay, very good. Well, uh, listen, Mark, we, we really appreciate you, um, taking the time to, to come out here and, uh, spend some time with us. Uh, you've already mentioned the website, muellerink.com. Is there any other, um, place Um, anything, any email addresses or anything else that you'd like to give out that people get a hold of you? Or is muellerinc.com the best place?

muellerinc.com is the best place because everything's there. You can go to locations, you can go to phone, you can go to email.

Okay, perfect.

Yeah, that's the best way.

Okay, perfect. We'll link— we will link that up in the show notes so that people have an opportunity to just click the link below. And, um, man, we just Thank you for, for coming out tonight. And, um, guys, thanks for, for listening to this episode. I think it's been really informative and helpful.

Yes.

And, uh, don't forget, every Tuesday— and, uh, there's a way not to have to forget every Tuesday to download our episode, and that is to just subscribe to us. That way it comes automatically. Listen to us every week. Thanks for sticking with us. And, uh, if you ever have any Anything you need from us, you can go to our website, homeownershow.com, or send us an email at info@homeownershow.com. We'd love to hear from you and interact with you there. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time. See ya.

All right, thanks guys.