Top 5 Small Cities in the US

This is episode number 213 of The Homeowner Show. Well, whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett. Here with me is Craig Williams.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show. We're so glad that you could join us for another live episode of The Homeowner Show. Here in the studio. How you doing, Kev?

Oh, I'm doing great.

Yeah?

It's late.

It is late.

It's late here in the Homeowners Show studio.

We are, we are the late night edition of Home Improvement.

We're, we're gonna have to change the way we talk if that's the case. We're gonna have to bring it down.

Bring it down.

Talk like this.

Yeah.

Put some sss on the end of our words.

Yeah. Well, I, I have grown accustomed over the last few days to no sleep.

Yeah, you've been out in the wild.

In the wild.

Yeah. Where I belong. Where the men belong.

That's right.

There are certain books that have been written about that.

Well, I don't know if they know anything, but—

no, they probably don't.

But I have been out in the— it hasn't really been out in the wild, but I've been out. And here's the thing, man, is I hear city pronunciations are dumb.

Well, we're gonna get into that later.

Yeah.

For sure.

So I've either been in Uvalde.

Yeah.

Or Uvalde.

It really depends on who you're talking to.

So.

I, I would say Uvalde.

Uh-huh.

But there are a lot of people that say Uvalde.

Uvalde.

Yeah.

Yeah. I prefer Uvalde myself. It just, you know, sits in the back of my tongue rather nicely.

Well, it's, it's a lot less country, a little more city love.

Uvalde.

Uvalde. I'm down in Uvalde. So This, this place is like— if you were to have said Uvalde like a year ago, most people, most people— I, I had a friend who lived there for a while, so I know where it is, but most people would be like, where?

Right.

But right now—

Well, unless— I mean, unless you're a hunter.

Yeah.

If you're a hunter, I mean, you knew, you knew about Uvalde for a long time.

Sure.

I, I didn't know this, like, it is the, uh, trophy buck capital of Texas.

I did not know that.

Yeah, like, more trophy bucks have come out of, out of that area of Texas than any other part. And like the biggest and the best have come from there.

Yeah.

Interesting.

I mean, I'm not thoroughly surprised, but I was unaware of that. But I mean, like recently it's been in the news.

Yeah, it's major in the news. So I was there dove hunting and we had a great time, brought home some meat to feed the family. Mostly like snacks because doves are not that big.

Dove are kind of small.

It's not like a turkey you killed. But I had fun doing it. But I went down there with a group from my church, and we got done hunting on Saturday morning, and one of the guys that was leading our group said, hey, I think it'd be a really good idea if we just went over into Uvalde and went over to Robb Elementary and just spent some time praying.

Sure.

For the city, for the people, for the kids, for the families. And so we did. We went to that that place, um, you know, where the horrible shooting took place. Um, and it like, uh, I, I think the best way I can describe it is just ghastly. It's, um, it was, it was really dark to walk into that place.

Yeah.

Um, and, and for, for those of you that don't know, I mean, like, a lot of people were like, you know, what's going to happen when they go back to school? They're not going to school there, right? Like, that, that place is shut down.

Right.

It's boarded up, it's fenced. You can't get into it even if you wanted. I mean, I guess you could if you really wanted to, but the way things are there, you don't really want to go near the building.

Right.

And the city, for whatever reason, has just allowed the stuff in front of the school to continue to pile. And so while you want there to be this memorial there and allow a space for people to grieve, there's just deteriorating stuffed animals and handwritten notes that people have written that are now faded and you can't read anymore.

Right.

And so we're all there in our camo, which I imagine was kind of like odd to a lot of the people because there's a lot of houses really, really close to the school.

Sure. Um, I mean, I mean, most elementary schools are built in neighborhoods.

Sure.

Most of them.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I mean, like, there was like people out, you know, like working in their yard.

Yeah.

While we were there.

Yeah.

And, you know, there was like, you know, 40 or 50 of us guys there in camo just, you know, hanging out in the front yard of the school, walking around looking at the different memorials of of the kids and the teachers and the notes and the things that people had left. And while we're there, there's other families who are there as a family.

Right.

Just kind of walking through all of that mess. And it was a powerful thing to go and experience and do. And so we did. We spent some time praying for the city. and for the families and for the kids and for just everything that's the trauma that's still there. And I mean, like, there was tons of people in the city square still protesting while we were there, which was, I mean, just this past Saturday. And so it was very palpable. Yeah. And there's lots of signs in the city about what all's going on there. Um, you know, and I, I don't want to like critique the city or whoever's in charge of letting what, what's going on in front of the school go on. Um, I just don't know that it's the best thing.

And I, I don't want them to tell them like— I don't want to sound like, hey, I'm trying to say like, hey, you guys just need to move on. Um, but like, it's, it's a dark thing to walk into that mess. And maybe that's what they're trying to do. I don't know. But it just doesn't seem like something that's helping anybody move on. And it's still fresh, and maybe they just don't need to yet. Yeah.

I mean, there's a lot wrapped up in I mean, everything surrounding that, it's a small community. Yeah, Baldy's not big.

No, um, it's, it's a lot bigger than I thought it was.

Yeah. Oh yeah, I mean, it's, it's in a— I think it's just that area. I mean, it just because of where it sits. Yeah, but even still, like, it's not—

it, it is very much a rural community. It is, uh, by and large. Um, but like, you, you kind of You drive the main drag, Uvalde, and you're going to see most of the stuff you see. I mean, there's a McDonald's, there's an HEB.

Is there Chick-fil-A?

I don't remember seeing the Chick-fil-A, but I mean, there's plenty of other fast food places.

Sure.

Not that obviously Chick-fil-A is better.

Yes.

Except on Sunday. God bless them. All that to say, I think part of the reason that people get so up in arms about things like that is because they want to help and they don't know how. And the only thing they know to do is to get angry.

Sure.

And I think there's nothing wrong with being angry about something like that. It's worth being angry about. But I will interject just my own personal beliefs. I do think one of the best things that you can do is to pray. And if you're not a prayerful person, maybe meditate on it and allow better ideas and solutions to come to mind of things that you can do. to be helpful. Because so many times, I think people believe that the best thing that we can do is protest or take action or make a petition or do these kinds of things rather than just love on people and be there for them and support them. Because that's one of the most powerful things that you

can do. And most of us just don't know how to love and support other people. But it's not hard. I mean, if you just ask yourself, like, what it would— if you put yourself in your shoes, if I was going through this, what would I want somebody to do for me?

Yeah.

If anything.

Yeah.

I mean, because some people to heal just need to be left alone for a little bit, and then they can come back and talk about it and, you know, process.

Yeah.

Um, and these, these people, you know, and I, I even felt a little bit of that on myself while we were there. I was like, is the best thing for us to even show up, to be there. But, you know, none of the community— I think, I think for them, they've kind of become numb to it.

Yeah.

For other people to be present in their community, because it was such a big deal for such a, you know, a good long while. And still, it still is. Sure. There's, there's still being news stories and media presence there in that city.

Yeah.

So anyway, just my, just my 2 cents, my, my little experience down there. Um, I'm glad I had it. Yeah, I think it was really good for me to just go and see, um, and, and remind myself that it's a real place and a real thing.

So do you— I mean, maybe this is obvious and I'm just not being obvious here, but is it, is it like shut down and boarded up because of just the high emotions, or there's just— there's damage in there, and so you can't— that it— or it's just still a crime scene?

I did see some damage. I did see some damage to the property that had nothing to do with the shooting.

Okay.

There was, like, a tree that fell over.

Okay.

I think my— and I don't know. Sure.

I mean, obviously, I'm only asking the question because I don't— I don't know.

I mean, like, there are some things that I do know. I would imagine that it shut down just because of just like the rawness of that place.

That's my primary guess.

I also know that, like, because one of my buddies that was on the trip is high up at HEB and was telling me that— and I don't think HEB let it— like, they may have kept it quiet, I don't know. But if they if they did, shame on them. But, I mean, not really, because that's kind of who they are. They donated like $10 million to the city of Uvalde to build a new school for those kids.

Wow.

So they had a lot of money coming in.

Sure.

And so that's one of those instances where you've got the money. This seems like to be like a better option for all those kids to not have to walk those halls. And if they, if they got the space to build it, they got the money, just do it.

Sure.

So I think that's what's going on. Okay. I think they're building a new building, uh, for those kids.

That's good. So that's good.

Which is also to me like, if that's your reason, then why not clean up that space? Yeah. And just not let it become like a rot and a stench.

Who knows, man?

You have to imagine the people that live super close to there are like Could it just go away?

Yeah.

Could it just go away?

And I'm sure eventually they'll probably tear it down or something.

Well, so here's the other thing about that, man, is like, and I hate to spend so much time on this because we actually have a pretty cool episode tonight. We'll get there. Yeah. But I would imagine there's a lot of stuff there that would be worth cataloging.

Oh, I'm sure.

And preserving. But they're not doing that. They're just letting it rot outside in the weather and the rain and the sun.

Yeah.

And then that was the part— that was one of the things that really bothered me about it is there's a lot of personal notes and poems that people had written about what was happening there. And just for posterity, shouldn't we be picking some of these things up? And someone had built these wooden altars to each of the kids that had fallen that day. And they were just rotting out there. And I was like, actually, I think the saddest part is that none of this is going to be preserved or remembered. Because eventually all of that stuff will just go to dust and rot.

Sure. Yeah.

So anyway, not why—

that's not the purpose of the episode.

Not at all.

But it's good stuff. It's good stuff to think about.

Well, I mean, it was what I was doing the last 3 days.

Sure.

But, no. What we're here to talk about, we've, we've been going on through this series of the top 5 cities in some different categories.

Right.

And so the next one we wanna get to is the best small cities.

Sure.

In America. Because some of the, some of the other cities that have come up in the list, some of them have been, most of them have been, like, suburbs of, like, larger metropolitan areas.

Right.

And, and so I think this You know, this is one worth mentioning because I think there's a lot of people who, you know, after the last 2 years are ready to get out.

Oh yeah.

Of some of the big cities and experience a different kind of lifestyle, you know. And with, you know, the access of the internet to do your job remotely, maybe even work from home, you know, the potential of living in a small city were you to have access to those kinds of things is a real possibility. And I think there's a lot of people that, you know, kind of feel like I'd be happier, uh, in a small, smaller town with less people and, you know, and, and are willing to trade, uh, amenities and, you know, maybe, you know, less high-end restaurants for small town feel.

Yeah. I mean, I, I, I grew up in a small town.

Well, let's not make the case against it.

Well, trust me, the one I grew up in is not on this list. But there's a lot of amazing things about growing up in a small town. I mean, where I grew up was small West Texas town, like 10,000 people. Everybody knew everybody. And it's just kind of one of those deals where it's like, man, there's, there's so much to be said about, um, about the opportunities to grow up with the same people, um, your entire life. And, uh, you know, when you go back, they're still the same people that are there, you know? Um, I don't know. We didn't have a Chick-fil-A in my, in my town.

In fact, um, it somehow survived.

Yeah. There was like a Subway and a McDonald's. That was about it. back then at Taco Villa. Yeah. Taco Villa is good.

Anyway. Is that one of those fast food restaurants that's, like, only for your small town?

No.

No.

That means Taco Villas are kind of in that West Texas area.

Okay.

But they're— yeah. They're kind of local there.

Gotcha.

It's weird because they got, like— it's fast food Mexican food, but they've got french fries. It's pretty funny. They're actually pretty good french fries.

Anyway.

So yeah, I think there's a lot of value in the idea of these small towns. A lot of times the cost of living is a lot lower. The political nature of the area is typically a lot different, a lot simpler. The idea of, oh, I gotta make all the money so that I can do all the things, is just not quite the same. as it is in a lot of places that are larger and more bustling, more metropolitan.

Yeah.

It's just a different pace of life. And I think you're right. So I think this is an interesting list for us to go through.

Yeah. So real quick, let me go through. So this is another WalletHub list. So we're taking the top 5 out of WalletHub, and this was based off of 1,300 US cities that were compared. And all of these cities had populations between 25,000 and 100,000, and they were all based off 43 key indicators of livability that ranged from housing costs, school system, restaurants per capita, on and on and on.

I honestly, like, I like that, that number, the population size, because, again, you go down to the size that I grew up in, like, 10,000 and My wife would even laugh at that because she grew up in a smaller town than that. There comes a point when it's so small that you just don't have anything.

Sure.

So growing up, you know, or, or raising a family, 25 to 100, you're still gonna have a lot of things, but it's still gonna have a very small town feel to it for sure.

Okay.

So, yeah.

So are you ready to get into this? Yeah.

Let's do the first one.

Alright. So the first one is going to be Reading, Massachusetts.

Well, it's Reading.

Yeah, I know that they think that. I refuse to enunciate that word when it's spelled Reading.

So it's not the only Reading in the area because the most famous one is Reading, Pennsylvania.

Right. And they're wrong too.

And there's a pretty famous railroad associated with the— there's the Reading Railroad in Monopoly.

No one calls it that.

No, but that's what it is. in Monopoly, and it comes from Reading, Pennsylvania.

Yeah, everyone calls it the Reading Railroad.

Yeah, they do.

Mostly because they all grew up with Reading Rainbow.

Reading Rainbow. Reading Railroad. Yeah, it's not that at all.

It's because a show called Reading Rainbow—

Is not the same.

Wouldn't make any sense, just like your town name.

Yeah, also they were actually talking about reading in the rainbow show.

That's right.

It was about books. Anyway, why it's Reading, I don't know. Doesn't really matter.

I think you could actually make the argument these towns are actually deterring reading and comprehension.

Well, if they're—

yes.

So Reading or Reading, however you want to pronounce it, I mean, right at 25,000.

Is that their population?

I mean, that's an old census. But it's the most common. I mean, it's the latest one on Google. It's, like, right bumping right up 24/7.

Yeah. So, I mean, like, so let me, let me back up just a little bit. So, like, there's 5 metrics by which they're determining best small city.

Okay.

One is affordability. One is economic health.

Right.

Another category is education and health. Another category, quality of life. and then safety. And part of the reason that Reading is— Reading, Massachusetts is up so high is because they're number 3 in education and health and number 9 in safety.

Yeah. I mean, of, of 1,300.

Yeah.

That's a— those are pretty high numbers.

Those are impressive.

Now their quality of life is in the thousands.

Yeah.

But, but their health and education and their safety, pretty high.

Yeah. And I'm not really sure what it is that determines quality of life because again, that seems like a rather subjective category because I think different people have different definitions as what makes a quality life. Most of the rest of them are pretty empirical pieces of data. I'd be interested to know what they use to determine quality of life. I'm sure they have it listed somewhere.

I mean, the numbers are really weird to me because whenever you look at the rest of the numbers on the list, like number 1 on the list, the numbers don't look— they look worse to me. But whatever. Their total score winds at— I don't know what term. I think they add everything up and probably divide by 5 or whatever. Uh, I don't know.

I would actually imagine some of the categories count for more, or, or— yeah, probably, probably than the other ones.

Yeah.

So anyway, do we know anything like significant about—

I, I mean, as far as the, the town itself?

Yeah.

Um, I mean, I mean, it's interesting, like the, the average income in the area is like $130,000.

That's impressive.

Which is Yeah, it's really impressive.

Are there any industries there that are—

I don't know. It's a good question. I mean, basically—

Because it's not crazy expensive to live there. No.

I mean, it's only 16 miles north of Boston. But so it's got a lot of history. as far as that goes. Um, I mean, I mean, it's just a small town.

Yeah.

I mean, I mean, okay. Well, then I don't see anything crazy about it.

Number 4 is actually from the same state.

Yeah.

Lexington.

Yeah.

I've, I mean, Massachusetts.

I've actually heard of Lexington. Um, and, uh, it's not Lexington. No, it's Lexington.

Lexington. Yeah.

Uh, we, We, we're gonna get fired. We're gonna get absolutely fired. Um, but I'll tell you the most interesting thing to me about Lexington is it receives a number 1. Yeah, like the very top on, uh, education and health.

Yeah, that is impressive.

So I mean, as far as the city itself goes, um, I mean, the population is slightly higher. It's about 34,000.

Um, so it's also famous for the American Revolutionary War. It's where the very first shot was fired. Yeah, so you got that going on.

I think that's probably why I've heard of it before. Uh, but again, I mean, like everything in Massachusetts, it's not far from Boston. Um, so yeah, I mean, there's a pretty, pretty famous statue there, the Minutemen, uh, Minuteman statue. And the Revolutionary Monument is there. So, I mean, you know, like I said, and that whole area, that Boston area, there's just tons and tons of history.

Yeah.

In that place.

I mean, it's saying that the age of this city is about 309 years.

Yeah. So that's a long time.

That is a really long time.

I mean, for America, America's not been around that long.

No. 400 years, something like that.

So I don't— I'm— someone's gonna correct me, but it's not that much longer.

No, I mean, like, the bicentennial was in 1976. Yeah. So I mean, it hasn't been around— the city's older than the United States.

Right, exactly. So, okay.

I was actually looking to see what some of the, uh, recreation was there. It's Not impressive.

No. I mean, again, we're talking about small cities here. I mean, this isn't gonna be like the most happening place in the world.

Although safety, again, is a— I mean, it's actually higher than the previous one, which makes sense. I mean, it's, you know, it's a higher ranked city, but number 1 in education health is impressive.

Yeah.

The economic health is actually pretty high compared to the— I mean, like, you know, out of It's number 37.

Yeah, it's pretty good.

So, but again, like, I want to know what that means.

Yeah. Economic health for who? Yeah, I mean, I guess what I would— I mean, I kind of think about what it might mean. Economic health to me just means that, like, yeah, there's plenty of employment opportunities.

I would imagine employment is high. Yeah. But again, it's not difficult to get high employment when you have a lower population.

true.

Um, I don't know what— do you know what the population of it is?

Yeah, it was like 34,000.

Okay, that's not— yeah, that's not terribly high.

I mean, it's not that high. It's not super low though.

Sure.

You know, it's a decent number.

Yeah. Okay, so, uh, that's, that's number 4. Number 3, Brentwood, Tennessee.

Yeah, so again, what's interesting about this to me is its proximity to a large city. It's still close. I mean, Brentwood is not far from Nashville, you know. I mean, I mean, it's kind of— it's pretty close, actually. Um, it's got a population— again, it's a little bit larger. It's, uh, almost, almost 50,000. It's at like 40,000, 43,000, something like that.

When this thing I just pulled up, it actually describes it as one of the more affluent suburbs of Nashville.

Yeah, it is. So have you ever been to Brentwood? the area?

I've never— well, I've only ever been to like 2 cities in Tennessee.

Okay.

Yeah.

So Brentwood—

And Brentwood ain't one of them. Yeah.

So Brentwood's kind of the, um, it's kind of the woodlands of Nashville. Yeah. The Nashville area.

Okay.

It's, um, it's got a lot of like, they've got a, the Greens Point Mall area is like this super nice ritzy area.

Well, that's way different than the Greenspoint in Houston. Yeah.

Did I say Greenspoint? I think it's called the Greens. I think it's just called the Greens. I'm probably wrong about all of it. But, but yeah, it's definitely, I mean, that's kind of the place where all the nice, huge, massive homes are in Brentwood. I mean, it's, I mean, there's some unbelievably nice places.

And so obviously, like, concert venues are going to be rather popular there.

Yep, yep. And so, you know, again, what's interesting to me though is you've got these— I mean, I know because I've seen them— these massive homes, um, but on affordability it's like number 28.

Yeah.

So I mean, it's— the affordability is pretty high in affordability.

Yeah. Um, probably what that is, you know, based off what's there, it's affordable for what it is.

Maybe.

Yeah. Because it doesn't rank really high in any of the categories. No, but it's consistent. It's pretty even keeled across the board. Right. So, I mean, which for me, that might actually be the one that's the most palatable. Right. Because all of those things are going to be there.

Yeah.

Rather than one of them being really high and the other one being low. Yeah, it's south of the Mason-Dixon line, so I'm cool with it because I got to maintain that stat. But I do like Tennessee, by the way.

Oh, it's beautiful.

Yeah, it's a cool state.

Yeah, I agree.

So anyway, that's number 3.

Yep. Let's move on to number 2.

Carmel, Indiana.

Carmel, Indiana.

Or caramel.

Yeah, I don't know, man.

I would imagine— or caramel.

I think it's probably caramel. Yeah?

I, I don't know.

I really don't. So I've never been there.

I haven't either.

But it's in Indiana.

It's in the number 2 small city in the United States.

And I've never been to Indiana, so It's one of the states I've not been to.

I think I've been there. I haven't been to Indiana.

No, probably not. It's north.

Hoosiers.

Yeah. It's north-ish. North-ish. Midwest. I think that maybe— is that Midwest?

Yeah, I think so. Okay.

People, look, geometry is not my best subject.

So although I've mentioned this before—

Geography. That should be—

yeah.

Okay. Thanks.

People in Southern Illinois considering themselves Southerners.

How? Like, in reference to the state? Because it's way up there. Yeah.

I mean, because in comparison to us, what is it that's just— is it Missouri that's just south of there?

Well, yeah, it would be.

Is that right?

Yeah. But then you got like— there's like 3 states below it.

For those of us in the actual South, Missouri is north.

Right.

Like, it's a little too far. Yeah.

Missouri.

Yeah.

The state of misery. Yeah. There's a lot of different things we can call this place.

That's right. And so, like, you go north of Missouri and it's like, no, it's north.

It's way up there.

You just left the gray area.

Yeah, it's up there for sure.

And we don't even dislike Missouri. I mean, it's like, yeah, but like, once you go north of there, I mean, like, Come on.

Yeah, I'm with you. But anyway, well, okay, so as far as like population goes, Carmel— I'm just going with Carmel.

Sure.

Uh, again, we're, we're bumping up on numbers. We're almost at 100,000 for this place. Um, but again, we are in a suburb of a pretty large place, which is Indianapolis.

Sure.

Um, so, you know, it's close to 100,000 people. Um, it's a huge area. It spans 49 square miles.

Yeah.

Can you imagine?

I can.

Like, that's, that's a lot of space for just 100,000 people. I mean, that's a— it's pretty amazing. Um, so what is it known for?

You ready? Safety, right?

Well, it's known for its biking and walking trails.

Biking and walking trails.

And Great restaurants and a very robust arts scene and a winery. It's like honestly, it sounds perfect. It sounds like a great place to live. I mean, that sounds fun to me.

Oh, this is interesting. Some of the original settlers for oh it was originally called Bethlehem.

Really?

Yeah, and was founded by Quakers.

Interesting. Maybe it should maybe it was supposed to be called Camel.

I'm trying to see why.

Walked in on a camel.

Changed.

Probably not though.

It was actually founded in 1837.

That's a long time ago. Yeah. Yeah. That's a long time ago. I, I, I know nothing about this place. Well, Brentwood's the only one on the list that I know anything about.

It changed names in 1846 when they established a post office and it was called Carmel. I mean, probably there was like—

Mount.

Oh, wait, wait, wait. So there were— oh, and now, sorry, I'm not— I'm incorrect. It was not renamed in 1846. There was a post office established as Carmel in 1846, and then much later on, the town of Bethlehem was renamed Carmel in 1874 due to the need of a post office. Oh, so the post office was established as the Carmel Post Office. There was a need And 30 years later, they changed it because we need a post office.

This is—

and there was already a post office named Carmel.

This is the logic of the times.

Yeah. But number 2.

Number 2.

Yeah.

I mean, and when you kind of look at the overall rank, really high in affordability, economic health, and safety. Right.

Everything else it sucks at.

I don't know that it sucks, but it's definitely I mean, quality of life is pretty low. Quality of life is 275 out of 1,300.

So, uh, I mean, it's on the—

it's on the— it's not 50% upper echelon as far as that goes.

Yeah.

Um, but still, it's—

the next one's the one that boggles my mind.

I don't understand. How is it possible with the numbers that they're showing? These are their numbers. I mean, let's just go— okay, let's tell them what it is. It's Sammamish.

Sammamish, Washington.

Washington. Yeah. Sammamish, Washington. So here's what's crazy. It gets the highest score, but affordability is 178. And then this is something that's gonna help it tremendously. Its economic health is number 3.

Right.

Okay. That's, that's pretty big. But then education, health, 57. The quality of life is the worst on the list tonight.

Close to. Yeah.

1,228. It's like almost—

that, that's why I said I think the different— the categories are, you know, weighted differently.

Yeah.

Because there's no way that they could have that low of a score in quality of life and be the number 1. So, like, I would imagine economic health has to be the most—

Pretty high.

Yeah. The highest valued category because it ranks the highest of the top 5.

Yeah.

I mean, it doesn't rank crazy high in affordability. It's 178. Education and health is okay. It's 57. Safety is pretty good. It's 30.

Yeah.

But quality of life, 1,228.

Yeah. So—

So, like, there's— I mean, like, maybe because it's, like, in close proximity to Seattle.

Maybe.

And it just rains all the time. Kind of gloomy. So people are sad and gloomy all the time.

Yeah, exactly.

I don't know, could be.

But it doesn't make— like, so you're, you're probably right, because when I— when you look at the number 1 on the list for quality of life, it is Myrtle Beach, which I can kind of understand that.

Sure.

Have you ever been to Myrtle Beach?

Nope.

It's kind of a nice place.

Okay.

Um, got tons of golf courses there. It's just— it's right on the beach. I mean, it's a nice place. But it ranks in the 50th percentile. It's like— no, not the 50th percentile, the 15th percentile. And it scores in the 50s. So the quality of life thing is very interesting.

Yeah.

Whenever you look at the best on the economic health, the number 1 is in the 98th percentile.

Yeah.

So you're probably right that somehow the economic health of a place is gaining. I mean, when I look at the rest—

Kevin, money doesn't make people happy.

But it'll buy you a boat, buy you a truck to pull it.

I'm sorry. I mean, people that say that, Yeah. I understand what you're trying to say. Yeah.

But— But the reality of it is when you can buy the things that make you happy, you're—

Everyone who's ever been miserable doesn't look at money and go, that won't work.

Yeah.

They just don't.

No.

It's like, it might help.

Right. Now, I'll say this. I mean, realistically, I've been to probably— I, I think I've been to some of the poorest places on the planet.

I've been to some of them too, and, and there's very happy people there.

They're very happy. Like, they're— but that being said, like, if you told them, dude, like, I would— I could come in here and build you a home with electricity and, you know, air conditioning in a freaking nice truck.

Yeah.

They probably wouldn't be like, you know what, I don't need that, I'm good.

Yeah. They'd be like, bring it on, bring it on, bring it on.

Right?

Every time.

And, and the people that, that have those things, whatever it is, like the mansion with all the vehicles and all that kind of stuff, if you're like, look, you'd be a lot happier if you didn't have all this money.

Yeah. Let me show you, I'm gonna take it away. Yeah.

And they'd probably be like, get out.

Yeah.

You know, I, I, I just don't think that there's any logical scenario where you look at life and go, my life would be better with less money.

Yeah.

So, I mean, now I would hope that those people are like, my life is great because I have money and I'm able to bless a lot of people with it.

Yeah.

And that, to me, that's Amazing.

I think, I think the difference is, is when you find your meaning and your significance and your purpose in those things.

Sure.

And I think that's why so many people without money are able to be happy and content without them.

Sure.

Because so many people who are miserable find their meaning in things outside of themselves, you know, either comparing themselves to other people or just, you know, the desire of things that they don't have or things that are unattainable. But the people that are truly happy, it's not because they have less, so therefore they are happy, but they're more content with themselves.

Sure. I believe that to be true. I do think that money can create superficial happiness.

For sure.

And I think the lack of money doesn't necessarily breed the same opportunity for superficial happiness.

If people really believed that money makes you miserable, we should be working really hard to make more people poor.

Yeah. That's not gonna happen.

Now I realize that some of you think that people are trying to do that to you anyway.

No. But, I mean, the government literally here in America handed out checks and checks and checks and checks.

Yeah.

For people to have more money.

And everyone was miserable anyway.

And they were still miserable. And guess what? We had to pay taxes on all that. So that was dumb.

So the government was happy and you continue to be miserable. That's right. So yeah, that's the way it goes. Yep, yep, yep.

So well, I mean, I don't know what else to say about it other than the best small cities to live in America. Like, to be quite honest, I think I'd enjoy living in some of them.

I, I think there's some I'd be okay with. So I mean, probably Brentwood.

Yeah.

Um, I, I mean, one, I mean, I would be miserable in all the other 4. Mostly because my wife wouldn't live with me.

Oh.

In any of them.

Sure.

Like, it gets below, like, 50 degrees, she's out. She's out.

See, I, I don't know. I wouldn't—

like, I've got to go south in order— like, I gotta go further south in order for her to be happy.

Yeah. See, I— so I lived in Little Rock for a long time, and I loved the changing of the seasons. I mean, it was still hot and humid in the summers, just like it is here. But I love the fall. Beautiful leaves changing.

That's one of the places— that's one of the few places she'd be willing to go to that actually does get cold. Yeah. So anything else we need to talk about with this list?

I don't think so.

No, I think this is about it. If you want to look at the list, I think we'll post the link in the show notes if you want to check it out. There are some cities in Texas Let's see, some of them pop up are Southlake, Cedar Park, Dallas. Pretty much. I mean, that's what that is. So there are a surprising number of cities in Massachusetts, the Northeast, on this list.

Yeah.

Apparently even some in New York. I don't see any in California. Am I reading that right? Which is surprising. WalletHub is usually very favorable towards California. Yes, they are.

At least in our research.

At least what we've seen thus far.

Yeah.

I'm seeing a couple in Ohio. Honestly, I'm not seeing cities that I thought I would see on this.

Yeah.

But it could be that the states that I'm thinking of just don't have enough cities in that narrow, uh, population range.

Yeah, because a lot of small cities are, are below 25,000, right? What you and I would consider a small city, a lot of them are way smaller than that. And once you get into like the suburbs, a lot of cities have 150,000 more.

Yeah, you know, I'll have to look into it and see if they have like the best rural communities.

Huh.

Um, see if there's something like that, because I think that's something that a lot of people who have mobility are looking more towards is, you know, I mean, maybe there's something like this because it's an easy step down, but like more rural.

Yeah.

But anyway, anything else you want to add?

No, man. I think that's about it. Thank you everyone for downloading today's episode. We appreciate it very, very much. If you have not already, please go and like and subscribe to our channel, and we're available on Facebook, YouTube, anywhere you find podcasts, you can find us. And we'd love for you to go on Apple Podcasts. I got it right this time. And give us a rating and review. That'd be fantastic. But you know what? Until next time, see you later.

See ya.