That time we talked about Home Organization

This is episode number 22 of The Homeowner's Show. Whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is— well, it's just me today. I am home alone.

All alone.

There's no one here. Well, actually, there is a couple people here, so I can't actually say that, but Craig has abandoned us. He has decided he wants no more of this and he is done. Uh, he called me this afternoon and said, you're gonna have to do the show by yourself. And I was like, okay, why? And, uh, apparently He is not feeling well, which is a really good excuse, but I really don't think that, um, I really don't think that's an excuse at all because today is his daughter's birthday and he is missing her birthday party. So, uh, we hope you get better, Greg. Hope you feel better. And, uh, we're just gonna keep here rolling without you. So anyway, uh,

we're glad you're with us today. Um, as we get started, we just want to, uh, I want to say thank you for listening and want to let you know that you can always find our podcast on Facebook and Twitter and Instagram. And we are on iTunes and Google Play and Stitcher and lots of other places. So wherever you listen to podcasts, we are probably there. YouTube is a place you can find us as well. So— Thank you for listening, and don't forget to hit the subscribe button so you don't ever miss an episode, and we will continue to put these out every Tuesday. So thanks for being with us. As we kind of begin today, I wanna take a

moment, and I feel like I need to get something off my chest. So I was listening to the radio the other day, and first of all, I don't know how many of you are aware, Probably are. We live in a culture that changes rapidly. I mean, it is insane how fast things change from day to day. And, you know, I, I actually subscribe to, um, something called the Culture Translator that helps me kind of keep up with culture. It's, it's kind of an interesting phenomenon, uh, with, with so many people having access 24 hours a day to social media, uh, their smart devices are in their hands all the time, and information is so readily available. And I'm listening to the radio and

they start talking about this new phenomenon on Netflix, and there's this show that is like the number one show on TV. And it's a network, uh, network original from Netflix, and it is with this lady. Her name is Marie Kondo. Maybe you've heard of her, and if you haven't, you're probably just not paying attention to life at this point because her name is all over the place. She is a Japanese woman who is also an author, and she's written 4 books, and they have sold over a million copies collectively. And this lady is just taking over the world. She is, uh, like some sort of sensei, I think. I don't, I don't know. Um, but she has got this show on Netflix called Tidying

Up. And so I— they're telling me on the radio and however many listeners that this is the number one show on TV and I gotta go watch it. They're telling me directly In my ears, Kevin, you have got to go watch this show. So one night I put my kids in bed and my wife's tired, she goes to bed early. And so I decide I'm gonna find this show. So I found it, season 1, episode 1, Play. And so I watched this couple talk about how messy and unorganized their life is. And so enter small little Japanese woman Marie Kondo, and she says, I can fix this, I can fix you. And so she starts, she starts

telling them all these things that they need to do, and it's like they've never lived in their own house before. It's like literally they're— it's as if they walk through their house and don't realize how much junk they have. And maybe you're going, yep, that's me. I have no idea how much junk I've got. And so the first thing she tells him is, you've got to get all of your clothes and pile them on the bed. And the first thing that's interesting is she, the wife, has so many clothes that she has kicked her husband out of the room, and his closet is one in one of their children's rooms. So they're piling all their clothes up, and it's as if she had no idea how many clothes

she has. And I'm sitting here going, you, you, you're the one that bought them all. You're the one that put them all— so much so that you have created a whole nother closet in a whole nother room just for your husband because you have so much stuff. And so in the midst of all of this, here's Marie, and she's kind of standing there smiling. And, and it's as if she whispers to them in Japanese, which I cannot do, but if she were speaking in English, she would say, find your joy. Where is your joy? And they're looking at her like, we have no joy because it's all just anxiety-ridden mess in our house. And she says, I can fix this. I can fix you. It's kind of creepy. But

at the end of the episode, they're like, we never knew we could be so happy because someone has organized our life. And, um, This is just this cultural phenomenon, and it's just an interesting thing and a perfect segue into our show for today. And in our studio today, we've got 2 very, very special guests, and we're so glad that you have joined us. I'm going to let each of you introduce yourselves, and we'll kind of discuss who you are and what you do. So, Kristen, I will start with you.

Yes, I'm Kristen Schumate. I'm a professional organizer with Pitcher Design Group.

Okay.

And I work with Kristen. So I'm Michelle Huffman, and I'm also a professional organizer with Pitcher Design Group.

Okay, your names are not Marie.

No.

But I feel like you connect with Marie in a, in a few ways here.

Absolutely.

So here, here's what I wanna know first. Tell us, so, so your job is to professionally organize people's homes or life or whatever it is that they have tasked you with. Okay, so kind of tell me how each of you got to the place where you are. I mean, where did you begin? How did you decide one day, I'm going to be a professional organizer?

Well, I began teaching public school, so I was a high school teacher for years, and that's a, that's a hard job. Oh man. So in my 20s, I took a break And ended up working retail with The Container Store and designed custom closets for years. And I have 2 children. At that point, they were babies and decided I wanted to be able to set my own schedule. So at that point, joined Pitcher Design Group to professionally organize, which I had really been doing through the store for so many years.

Okay. Very cool. So you kind of got your start through The Container Store.

Right.

All right. And I know that we actually have purchased an Elfa system before. If you don't know what Elfa is, is, it will change your life as far as closets go. So I know just enough to make me just go insane. So anyway, Michelle, tell us a little bit about your background.

So I also started at The Container Store. So out of college, started working part-time at The Container Store and very quickly became one of their designers, much like Kristen was. We were designing closets and pantries and garages and all types of different spaces. Worked for Container Store for many years and loved doing that, but you're sending someone home with a bag of product or a piece of paper with a sketch on it for design or shelving to go tackle themselves, and you don't get that last step of really helping complete the project and see it done and know, gosh, I don't need 6 shelves, I need 7, or I really need now my bins on these shelves so the space works better. So joined Pitcher Design Group about a

year and a half ago, and now I get to see the project all the way start to finish, come in and see what you have in that closet or in your garage and help come up with that plan for how can we make it function better for you, and then implement it and leave it for you to maintain.

Okay.

And see them do the happy dance.

Yes, we love that.

We get to see that.

So, so at the end, you're the ones where they're looking at you going, you saved my life.

It is amazing. We wish it for everybody. It's so amazing.

That's great. So, um, kind of walk me through what that process looks like because Um, you know, I think it's, it's unbelievable to me how many people, um, that I know who wish their lives were more organized. And, um, it's funny, uh, we were talking before the show, I, I'm a pretty organized person in certain areas of my life. And, and, and I don't know how much you see that in other people where they say, okay, this part of my life is super organized, but this part of my life, I just can't even think about it. So, so let's talk about, uh, some specifics for a moment. So, um, I know there's a process to this. So

let's say that I have a project that I want you to come organize and I've hired you to come over. And so I'm a guy, I got my guy space, uh, the garage, but it is a mess and I need some help kind of controlling the chaos in there. Uh, you come over, what does that look like?

Yes. So we meet in the garage and talk a lot about, you know, what's bugging you the most, um, because organized looks different for different people. So we get a clue of what's driving you crazy, what you've already tried to fix it, um, and what you envision for it. Take lots of notes, pictures, measurements, um, and then we talk about a date to reveal the plan. And then our homework begins when we leave that consultation. So we come up with an organization plan, kind of an idea of zones of what should go If you need a new structure, there's a design for that structure. And then if there is boxes, bins, things that you need on the

shelves, we come up with that as well. So you get a full quote of labor, product needed, earliest date that we could start, and we meet at that designated time to reveal the plan to you because it's important for people to know what it's going to look like when we're done.

Okay, cool. So at this point, I'm thinking, okay, There's a lot of stuff in my garage, and, and I, and I've got— I, I have to have all of it. If it wasn't in there, then that would be fine, but it is in there, which means I, I need it, right? So, are y'all also consultants going, you probably don't need 45 3/4-inch wrenches? I mean, how do y'all deal with that?

Yes, that really comes when it's implement— Implementing time. So we're going to take everything out, we're going to basically empty the garage so that we can truly sort what you have and group things together. Because if the extension cords are on 3 different sections of the garage, you don't realize that you have 3 of them, and they're all the exact same length.

Hmm.

Or the wrenches, like you referred to, if they're all just scattered into different toolboxes in the bottom random places, you don't know what you have. So the first step really is you've got to get it out and you've got to assess what you have. How many do you have? Do you need them all? Is one of those rusty? Why are we keeping the rusty one? So maybe you still need 2 of them, but the 3rd one can go away.

Right.

So helping look at that and really assess what needs to be in the garage. What do you really use? What do you really want? And what could you possibly pass on to the next person or let go of?

Okay. Yeah. So the next thing that kind of pops into my head as we're talking through this is I heard you say we take everything out. Like, how involved am I in this process as far as doing the organizing? Is that something that you bring the product in, say, here's the design, here's how it needs to be organized, and I organize it? Or do you— are you fully hands-on? How does that look?

It can look different for different people because some people might say, you know what, I'm going to step back and let you do it, and I'll be available for questions, and we'll pull you in every so often then to answer some questions. Um, but you might say, I want to work alongside you. I want to know where every single thing is in my garage, and I want to help make a decision on it. So you really get to have that choice of how hands-on or hands-off you want to be in the process.

Okay.

And that might—

We've got clients that love to, they just don't know how. And then we've got those that would prefer that HGTV moment where they can leave, And come home and have it done.

Okay. Yeah, I guess that makes sense. Um, so, you know, how much of this is, is coaching? Like, do you do any coaching as far as saying, in order— I mean, because I'm sure that a lot of people get their lives organized and then their habits created it to begin with. And just because you bring in a structure and bins and boxes and drawers and all these sorts of things doesn't necessarily mean a person is going to be organized. So how much of this is coaching on top of all that?

The coaching happens in the design process. Like sometimes it's not getting put back— we're getting put back because there was never a place for it to begin with. So zoning to give it a place. And then a lot of that is happening at the declutter phase where we talk about, tell me a little bit about why you have 17 wrenches. Just help me understand. Um, it, it happens at both phases. And the goal is always that when it's done, we've set this up according to the way you live and the way you need it, that we shouldn't need to return.

Hmm.

We do maintenance, um, but really we do try to design it, um, so that we don't need to return. And most times the clutter exists, um, because we never established a purpose for the space and we never gave those things a place.

So, so there's— it sounds to me like there, there is quite a bit of coaching that goes in. You say this, this thing has this sort of place, and because of that, we need to have this sort of container to, to put that in. And, and, you know, I, I've found that in my own life with, with my garage specifically, that if there is a hook for my drill to go on, then it typically finds its way back there eventually, right? But if there was no hook, I'm gonna put it wherever I can find an open spot for it. Is that, is that kind of what you're—

And, and I'll give you a story. Uh, we did a closet a few months back and the client called to say, you know, I went in my perfectly organized closet and I was just gonna kick my shoes off on the floor and then I thought, it stands out. Um, once you get the reset that you need, it really is kind of hard to mess it up.

Yeah.

If we've done our due diligence and made sure that it's set up in a way that makes sense for you, it's gonna be easy for you to put it away.

Yeah, you know, uh, my wife and I were actually dealing with this, uh, just a few, uh, months ago. We, we moved into the house that we're in about a year and a half ago, and when you move into a house, you wind up putting things in places because there's an opening. And so specifically with our kitchen— and I would imagine a kitchen is a primary place to do some organizing— um, and the great thing about a kitchen is a lot of times you don't need lots of extra bins and stuff because there's already, already the structure in place, I would assume. So, uh, we recognized that we had this, this big massive drawer and we had a lot of like Pyrex and CorningWare in this and

was at the— on the very bottom next to the floor. And this drawer wound up being very difficult to open and close. And up, you know, eye level is where we had all of our Tupperware stuff. And at some point I told my wife, I said, we made a mistake. Our, our heavy stuff like our Pyrex and our pie pans and those sorts of things should be at eye level, and all of our Tupperware should be down below where it's not so heavy for this drawer to pull in and out. Okay, this is how my brain works. And, and we said— she said, that makes sense. And I said, okay, we should do that. And like 2

months later, I finally was like, this has to get done. And it finally got done. And she's actually the one that took the initiative to get it done. But, um, I think that's part of this process too. How often do you run into people that go, I know I need this, this, this, and this. I need you to make sure that it happens though.

Absolutely. You know, kitchens are one of my favorite things to work on because there is a flow to your kitchen. There's a natural— I'm standing at the stove and I need to stir the pot on the stove. My utensils should be to my right because I'm right-handed. Like there's that natural thought process of I'm unloading the dishwasher. Which way do I turn to put the plates away? Which way do I turn for the silverware drawer? So it really, it is a very thought-provoking area to stop and assess. How do I use it? How do I cook? What do I cook? How often? to really think about where you want things to go. And I think moving in is the perfect time

before you unpack those boxes to stand in your kitchen and establish what are the zones, what are the areas, how much space do you have to spread out in, and who— how many people cook in the kitchen? How many areas do you need to have set up for people to work on? So it's, it's definitely an area that we work on very frequently.

Okay, so, so I think that Kind of naturally transitions me into another question that I had regarding the fact that, you know, we on this show, we try to do everything we can to help our listeners figure out, is this something I can do myself or is this someone— something that I need to hire someone to come out and do? So one of the things that I would really like you to speak into for a moment is what are those types of things that I can do as a homeowner to evaluate my space and try to figure out on my own, why is this such a mess and what do I need to do to correct

it without hiring someone to come in and do this for me?

I think the, the biggest thing with organizing is we tend to look at this huge space like the kitchen as a whole and say, I need to organize my kitchen. That's overwhelming.

Mm-hmm.

You know, it takes 2 of us 6 hours to work on a kitchen, and that's not including design time. It would take easily 3 weekends for you and your wife to completely do that kitchen. So we say, think simple, think small, something you can do in 20 minutes where you're going to have some success at it. So the junk drawer would be one to just completely empty, sort, and see what's there. Get out the things that don't belong and then put away for now. You're going to go through the kitchen as a whole, but one cabinet, one drawer at a time is something that you can do on your own. And eventually, you'll work your way through that whole kitchen.

Once you've decluttered that whole kitchen, then you want to assess what goes where because you understand now how many Pyrex there are to allocate the space for it. But if you think small, 20 minutes at a time, and then walk away.

Yeah. And I would think that a kitchen on some level, I think, is probably a place that people have more organized than other places, even if it's organized poorly. Um, it's probably more organized. You typically stack your plates on top of each other and, you know, all your cups are in that cabinet, um, for example. Um, but do you find that people, when, when they start this process, they, they don't realize how much they actually have and then, and, and they go, I had no idea I had 19 complete sets of cups? And And how do you coach people through getting rid of some of those things? Because so often, um, there's sentimental value to things. And, you know, I know there's a lot of

times whenever— personally for us, you know, we've got 2 small children, but they don't need, uh, little baby spoons anymore. But we think, well, we have friends that have babies, so we should probably keep those things. And, you know, 20 years from now, we'll probably think, oh, we might have grandkids someday. So, you know, it's this, it's this challenge of what do I get rid of versus what do I keep? And, you know, why are they still kept in the kitchen? And I don't yet have the grandkids, you know, those sorts of things. What are your thoughts on that?

We talk a lot about why people keep things. And there is logic to it. I think just sometimes saying it out loud, people give themselves the permission to let it go. So first, when they see it all together, sometimes they make that move on their own. Like, okay, I just didn't know. So half of that's going away. Um, the second, we keep things because we spent money on them and we feel ashamed that we did. You know, a lot of us came from nothing and we're worried that one day that day might return. So if I give those things away, I've got the ability to have things now. I don't wanna lose that ability. Um,

we keep things because somebody gifted them to us and we fear somehow that That person's going to find out that we gave it away. So there's a lot of reasons. And when we talk about it, we can laugh about it. It's like, is that real? Is that realistic though? It's not. And when we talk through it, then they're able to let those things go. Um, but I think one big misconception about organizers is that we're tyrants that will come in and tell you, you must let that go. It's truly a partnership. Um, our clients become friends for years and years and years because we've worked through these very emotional things. Um, we are there to talk

you through why. And sometimes it does make sense to keep 30 koozies. Maybe you entertain a lot. There's no set number. It totally is up to the client. But it's usually a friendly process.

And I guess, on some level, you have to recognize the space that you have. I mean, if you have, for example, 30 koozies and you live in a 1,200-square-foot house, the likelihood of you actually having space for 30 koozies is unrealistic because more than likely, you're not entertaining 30 people in your 1,200-square-foot house.

And I kid you not, it was, it was more like 60. Oh my goodness.

Um, yeah. That's funny. That's funny. And, and, you know, I guess we all have our thing, and we all have the thing that we really don't want to get rid of. Um, you know, one of the things that's funny in our house is, um, we have this box of sheets that have worn out. They're, you know, there's holes in them or, you know, whatever, but they become our fort sheets. These are the sheets that our kids build forts out of, right? And so it's funny because some things that I know is clearly junk is stuff that winds up being very valuable at this stage of our life. And so, um, you know, I, I guess the, the thing is, is, is figure out a

way to separate the stuff that you need into its own spaces. And so, um, I guess my next question is Where do I find the best stuff for organizing my life? Um, because I know there's lots of options out there. And the other thing that I found personally, just in my own organization, is that you can spend a whole lot of money and you can spend a little bit of money, and there tends to be a big difference in how much you spend versus what you wind up getting. So what are your suggestions on that and what is your advice?

I think you have to first know how long you plan to keep that item. So is this the bin that's holding the towels or the blankets that you use to build forts? And okay, in 4 or 5 years we probably won't build forts, so it doesn't have to last a long time. So gosh, I can buy an inexpensive plastic bin or a really inexpensive woven bin that still looks nice and know that when it's starting to feel worn and it's gotten beaten up, you don't feel bad about letting it go because you haven't spent a lot of money on it. But go back to your garage and you're probably going to keep an item in your garage where your tools

are for a longer period of time. Well, let's invest in a higher quality product that's going to sit in the garage and it's also going to be exposed to temperature changes and humidity of our weather. So I think you have to look at where is it going to go, how are you going to use it, and how long do you plan to keep it? Because that'll tell you, gosh, I'm just going to go buy the really cheapest shoebox plastic bin I can find because in 3 years, I don't have crayons in the house anymore and I'm going to get rid of it.

That makes sense. And it's just very clear that certain things are made a lot more sturdy than others. And one thing that I found just recently is where we moved from, we had a storage area that was air-conditioned. And where we moved to, we didn't have that. We've got some great attic space. It does— the temperature up there changes quite a bit. But we need to store some clothes because we tend to be bargain shoppers. So when we find clothes that are a great deal, and maybe they're a size that is 2 years down the road for our kids, it's still worth having those things. So we found these specific containers that were really expensive, but they've got

foam around the edge.

Mm-hmm.

So bugs can't get in there. It changes your ability to put those things in certain places, but we weighed the value of how much we were spending on that versus, you know, one that was literally a quarter of the cost and figured out that that was a better use of our space.

Yes.

So, um, where, where do you suggest we find those types of products? And I know you're You're probably not interested in endorsing anything here, but what do you— I mean, you're welcome to. We— no one pays us to do this show, so you're welcome to endorse whatever you want to, because I— and not if you don't want to.

So we are always fans of The Container Store. It's known as the original storage and organization store. Like, if you don't want to waste time looking, driving to multiple places, Container Store is the one-stop shop to see if it exists. For any area of the house. A lot of folks are going to Amazon. You can read reviews on things like that. Wayfair is also popular. But somehow with storage and organization, it's helpful to touch and feel it, to see the size, to know the thing is going to fit. And so that's typically where we source first.

Okay. Yeah, and I would assume a really good tape measure is something to invest in. I'm just guessing because, you know, one of the things— so My wife and I own a camper. When you live in tiny spaces, and a camper is just one of those examples of a tiny space, you wind up having to, A, choose what you're going to take with you, and B, figure out how, whenever you get to that destination, it's not bounced all over the road, all over the place. You open up your cabinets and you have no idea where anything is, and everything's broken. One of the things I've found is, is finding the right size container can be challenging. And I found myself one day I'd gone to

Home Depot, I had gone to Lowe's, Target, Walmart, Sam's, and back to Home Depot to get the one that I found the very beginning. And, and do y'all ever run into that? Just, or do you, are y'all so aware of, of what your needs are that you kind of know what works and what doesn't?

We have a staple of items that we typically use for kitchens, garages.

Okay.

I just recently organized an RV. So if you like to use the tape measure, if you like to think through the math of how to make sure the containers fully fit in that pull-out storage unit of your RV, if you like that, you would be a DIY person. If you don't, that would be one very good reason to call a professional organizer. We know the measures of these things because we use them all the time. So the time it takes to plan that, you know, we can take typically at the consult, look at the space and know exactly what we're going to use.

Yeah, and that's really, really helpful for you to say because, um, at some point— and this is something that we just talked about in our last episode, uh, DIY versus hiring a professional— is what is the break-even point? At what point is it costing me more, whether it's anxiety or whether it's dollars, um, or, or time? I mean, I traveled a lot of miles between those stores just to go back to the place that I originally traveled. I probably spent 3 hours looking for something, and time is valuable.

Yeah.

And so, um, I, I guess the thing that, that I really appreciate about that is know what you are willing to do and what you want to do versus what you realistically are going to do. And so, um, one of the things that we will do is, uh, we will link up some information on how to get a hold of y'all, uh, and your, your organization with Pitcher. And, um, that way people can, can get a hold of you. Um, do y'all want to give any information right now, um, just on the show?

Yeah, um, you can find our website at pitcherdesigngroup.com. Um, I do think you should look us up on Instagram. At Instagram, it's Picture Perfect House, and at Facebook, it's Pitcher Design Group LLC. We show before and after pictures. You can see a little bit about what we're up to and get an idea of what we do and what our spaces look like before, before you call us.

Okay, and just so everyone is hearing correctly, this is Pitcher, P-I-T-C-H-E-R.

Yes.

Not picture.

Exactly.

Yeah, so thank you. No, that's good. I, I was Looking at some of our notes beforehand and wanted to make that clear to everyone out there. Do you have a phone number that that you're interested in in giving out? Yes or no? Yes.

Oh, standby.

Standby.

You can have mine, but let me get you.

Nobody wants to hear me sing.

While I'm looking for this, we typically work with clients over a couple of years. It typically starts out with one space and they feel really good about it. that we continue on in other areas. So people that are reluctant to give away some of those 17 wrenches, what we find is as we continue working through the house, it becomes a little bit easier to let those go. So we want to make sure people don't feel bad if they're not ready. It is a process and people open up to that over time.

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

You know, I thought it was interesting you were surprised at how on that episode people were shocked at how big this pile was.

Yeah.

And I think that is actually more common than you realize, whether it's your closet, your kitchen, your garage, whatever it is. How often do you have everything all together in one spot? How often are all of the leftover containers clean and put away that you realize how many you're actually storing?

Wow.

So just that process of getting everything into one area is a good place to kind of assess Am I keeping more than I need? Do I have some that I don't need any longer? But that is a good starting point if somebody's trying to decide, do I want to tackle this myself? Do a small project like that.

Okay.

And think about how much did I enjoy that? Yeah.

Do you regularly find yourself giving people a whole cabinet's worth of space that's like Absolutely.

And then we immediately talk about what its purpose is.

Oh, okay.

Yes. And that it's okay that it's not used.

Okay.

You should have shelves that are empty.

Oh, wow.

Because something's going to come home. It's going to be holiday time and you've suddenly stocked up and your pantry needs to have room to take on the extra things that you've brought home. But then after you've cooked all your holiday meals and everything's happened, you should go back to an empty shelf.

Hmm, that's interesting. Most people don't think this way.

Right.

I think this is a foreign way for people to think.

And it's like there are those who are gifted at painting walls. Michelle and I were talking about this, that some people are gifted with that and some people aren't, and that's okay. We meet you where you are.

And some people enjoy doing it themselves. Like, that's part of the reward if you've done it and you feel really great about this project that you've tackled. And for other people, it's, I'd rather spend my time doing something I enjoy more. So let me hire somebody to come take care of it for me.

Yeah, but what— so, so kind of going back to, to Marie Kondo for a moment, uh, even though she makes me crazy, there's something to what she does and how she does it. There, there is a rhythm to life, and I think that she very perfectly allows people to fit back into the rhythm that they were created to to, to walk within. And so, you know, as much as I was kind of poking fun at her, you know, finding— find your joy, uh, the, the last thing you want to do after coming home after a day of work, maybe you've had a long day with your kids, um, whatever the case may be, is to come into a house that causes anxiety. That, that

really changes people's quality of life. And so, you know, I guess one of the things that that I hear from you guys is that doesn't have to be that way, right? So, um, so great. And did you—

Yes, I've got a phone number for you, so you'll call us too. And we are doing complimentary consultations for folks that mention the podcast.

Great.

So give us a ring at 832-819-0024.

Okay, great. And we will, uh, like I said, we'll link that up and also, um, We'll put that information on the, on the consult as well. That's a, that's a great deal. Thanks for, thanks for promoting that and offering that up. So is there anything else that we haven't talked about that y'all really were hoping to hit on tonight?

Well, actually, I want to go along with what you were just saying, Marie Kondo, and kind of that rhythm. And I think it's very strategic that what she has her people start with is clothing because you're not quite as sentimentally attached to the 50 t-shirts you have in your closet. And so to start that process of holding up, here's a pink one, here's a green one, this one has a saying on it, whatever it is, it's a lot easier to start that thought process of how many do I need to keep and which ones do I wanna let go of? Because the hardest thing to start with are the things that you're sentimentally attached to. Like sitting down and opening up the

cabinet that has all the photographs in it. That's the thing that's gonna be hardest to go through.

Right.

Or to go through your children's things of here's the baby spoons, here's the children's clothing, their favorite toys. Those are hard. And so if you kind of warm yourself up some of those other projects that you're not quite as emotional about, it will help you when you get to other areas of your house.

Oh, that's great advice.

You become a better decision maker.

Okay. So, so really, it's a learning process for, for most people. Um, and, and it, you know, I think the other thing to— that's kind of cool about this is, you know, most people don't acquire this stuff overnight. But you can organize it overnight, almost. You can take control of this fairly quickly. The question is, are you willing to pay the price? I mean that both in what you have to physically give up and mentally give up, but also, there's a price point.

Mm-hmm.

Craig and I talk about this often, especially in our final 4 questions that we'll get to here in just a moment, is that Yeah. Quality of life looks like a lot of different things. And at the end of the day, if you look at your life and go, man, I just— I'm not happy, and this one thing would help me be happier, go after that thing. And I'm not necessarily talking about a new truck is going to make me happy, because maybe it will for a while, but eventually that truck's going to get old too. But what are the quality of life types of things, the things that you really hold value in? What are those types of things? And, and

go after it. And honestly, I believe that, that what y'all are doing is really helping people's quality of life. And so, um, for all of those people out there, thank you for what you do. Uh, I think that's a— it's a, it's a beautiful thing. So anything else that y'all want to mention?

I think that the one thing I wanted to mention, I watched the series as well. And the first thing that came up for me was the husband's reaction when he knew that Marie Kondo was coming to their home. In so many words, he said, you know, we can do this ourselves.

Mm-hmm.

And she is telling him, I've got the kids, and you can just see the overwhelm. So we see that with our clients. We take every phone call seriously. When someone chooses to reach out to someone to help them in their house, that's a big moment for them. There is a lot of shame associated with paying someone else to tidy their home. And there's a lot of reasons why the home is in the state that it's in. It's totally logical reasons. So we just want people to know, ain't no shame in calling someone to help you get your house in order.

Well, that's good. So y'all aren't in the shaming business? No, not at all. Well, that's good. I appreciate that because it is humbling to call someone and say, I cannot do this. I don't care what it is. For you to give up your own self saying, I cannot do this, is a humbled place to be. So that's good. Well, let's jump into kind of the last thing that we do. We do this with all of our guests. I don't know if Craig warned you about this as we were getting together. No warning? OK, this is even better.

This is why he's not here tonight.

That's exactly right. You would probably beat him for this. These are fairly simple questions. Let both of you answer. So the first question is this: what's the must-have tool you won't leave the house without? Now, so this, this question could be directly related to your job. Maybe there's something that you always have with you, or it could just be if you were personally going on some sort of— a friend called you and said, hey, I need some help, and you, you have the opportunity to grab one thing. It could be that as well. So, Christian, we'll start with you. And what's a must-have tool?

My laser measure.

Dang, I was gonna say the same thing.

Exactly what I was thinking. And I have a tiny one now that I can charge in my car.

No, cool.

You haven't seen it yet.

No.

USB?

Yes.

Nice.

Yes.

Okay, laser measure.

Yes, electronic measure.

Okay.

It makes all the difference.

All right, y'all are the same person.

I love it.

Essentially, yeah.

This is, this is smart. Man, this, this might go quicker than I anticipated. All right, second question. What's a job you've walked away from? Now, this could be something specifically related to your job. That's fine. If there's maybe something that you either said, I can't work with that person, or they don't want our help, something like that. Or maybe, you know, we really were originally gearing this question towards something at your own house, something in your own life that you said, I, I had this problem at my house and I couldn't do it myself. I had to call some— call the professional in and get this taken care of. So, um, who wants to go first?

I'll go first on that one.

Okay.

Um, because it's funny that you talked about the garage, because the garage is my one area of the house that I have a hard time keeping organized. Like, I can get it organized, but maintaining it— because there's so many things that come in and out. You come in and out of the garage every day and things get dropped off And there's lots of reasons why. But that's probably the one area that I've thought maybe I could have some of our helpers come help me reset this area. So it's something that I've definitely thought about. I know how to do it and I can do it. But the time and the number of hands that just make it go so much faster. So that's something.

I would assume that on some level, it's a whole lot easier to have someone else tell you what you need to do rather than you you being able to do it yourself, which is also part of the reason that your job is necessary, right?

Yeah.

So even I find that to be funny that, that in your own life, organization tends to be something in this one area, like I was talking about earlier, this one area is something I just, I'm not even interested in tackling. I can tackle other people's problems, but in this area, I need help.

Everybody has a spot that they struggle with more.

Sure.

And it's the things you enjoy that you probably touch the most. Like I can tell you, my kitchen is one of those areas that is always put away where it's supposed to be.

Okay.

But the garage, it tends to just build up things occasionally.

Okay.

It gets out of control.

All right, what about you, Krystalina?

So 14 years ago, we bought a fixer-upper. We had no children, we had no skills, but we figured we would find the skills we haven't. So it's the stained concrete floor that needs flooring and it's the kitchen We have kitchen cabinets that need refinished. And now I know how much work goes into that because we have vendors that we work with that take care of that. But yeah, I will be hiring folks to do that.

Just in general, you're not a DIYer. You like to have other people come in and do it for you.

Absolutely.

Okay.

Absolutely.

Okay, good. Good, good.

That's where you and I are different.

And Michelle, this is why this is a great partnership because Michelle knows how to do these things.

Oh, cool.

Let's just take the countertops out. Let's see what happens.

Sledgehammers fix everything.

Exactly.

That's funny. Well, since I asked the question, have y'all had a work job that you had to walk away from? Okay, you're shaking your head yes.

Yes. A situation where the client was not ready. But I think walk away from is not the right term because we both came to that conclusion together to say, if we've pulled out all of these things and we've worked together for 2 days and nothing is leaving the house. I just, I can't take your money at this point. I want— I don't think you're ready. It's just not the right time. We have the plan saved for when you're ready, but it's not the right time.

Okay. So it's almost as if you were saying that out of respect, I can't—

Yes.

We can't do this any longer.

Yes.

And once you get to a better place in life where you can handle this—

She wasn't going to see results that she was looking for. And she didn't realize she wasn't ready. Until we got into it.

Okay. All right, cool. All right, 3rd question: how do you wind down at the end of a long day? And so, you know, Craig and I, uh, we're firm believers that if you, if you don't wind down, then you're just gonna bottle it up and it's gonna, you know, explode at some point. Um, and, and we feel like it's healthy for everyone to just find a way to just kind of decompress escape from the world for a little bit and find your happy place. So at the end of a long day, how do you wind down?

Do you want me to get that one first?

Sure.

I am usually— that's the point where I want to pull up my iPad and whether it's read a book or look at pictures on Pinterest or think about how I'm going to train my new puppy, like weird, like things that are not about organizing at all and just that quiet time.

Yeah. Okay, good.

I think for me it's TV.

Yeah.

Just winding down. Anything that can make me laugh at the end of the day.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I'm a TV person myself. We don't watch a ton of TV at my house, but at the end of the day, I just want to close everything else off, turn the TV on, and just let someone else just veg out inside my brain. Yeah, Seinfeld's good for that.

Friends. Friends is a great place too. I think that's where we are now.

Yeah, that's good. All right, uh, last question. You're almost there.

Okay.

You're, you're rounding third. Here we are, fourth. One of the best pieces of wisdom or advice that you've ever received. What's one of the best pieces of wisdom or advice that you've ever received?

I think mine came from my mom.

Okay.

And it was when I was a little bit older and she said, ask. People can say no, but it's harder to say no than it is to say yes. So just ask. Ask for what you need.

Okay.

Just ask. That's good. I like that.

Wow. That's kind of a hard question. I probably would have liked to think about that one for a while.

Sorry. I blame Craig.

We'll let him take the blame for that one. Um, I think it's probably that there's always another day because I like to get a lot of things done and I like to feel that accomplishment. And sometimes you can put a lot on your own plate. So just that point of you can always tackle it another day.

Yeah, so very true. Thankful that the sun rises again. Right?

Exactly.

Well, very good. Well, listen, ladies, thank you so much for taking the time to come down here and spend some time with us tonight. I hope you found it valuable. I know our listeners are going to find this valuable. I've found it very valuable. people as well. So thank you for your time. Thank you for what you do. Uh, like I said, we'll link everything up in the show notes so that way people know how to get a hold of you. And, um, as always, we're going to be here every Tuesday with a new episode. Thanks for tuning in. Feel free to get on iTunes and leave us a review, and we will see you next time.

Bye-bye.