That Time We Talked About Gun Safety

This is episode number 36 of The Homeowner Show. Whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is Craig Williams.

I'm not saying it.

Why not?

It's getting a little stale, man.

You're the one that came up with it, so you're either gonna have to find a new intro or you're going to have to go back to the old intro.

I mean, I can. I mean, it's—

Well, it's too late now. You're gonna have to wait for another episode.

You know, I feel like I need to come up with something better.

Well, I mean, I, I think— I don't disagree because the only thing you said was the same word 3 times or more. I don't even know how many times you said hello, hello, hello, hello.

That's 4 times.

I know, that's what I'm saying. I don't know how many times it was.

It was 3.

Okay.

I knew because I've done it like 600 times now.

Okay, well, good luck as you—

I don't mind saying hello. It's like, it's just, it's, it's become the intro and I don't know.

Well, good luck.

Are you guys tired of it out there? I don't know. Maybe howdy.

Howdy's not gonna work.

Howdy's— it doesn't, it doesn't go north of the Mason-Dixon line. Is that the issue?

Well, I use Heidi, so that's even worse.

Heidi?

Yeah, like, hi, hi, how you doing? Heidi.

Like a hidey-hole.

That's terrible. Okay, well, I won't use it again.

No one out there follow Kevin on greetings.

Well, they never do anyway, so.

I'm not saying to do the 3 hellos. I'm just saying like, that was terrible.

Man, you're probably gonna wake up in the middle of the night Like thinking about this now.

I, I will. It's okay.

Well, how you doing, man? I'm doing all right, man. Yeah, man, it's weird. We are not, uh, recording video tonight just because of, uh, we've got a, uh, a phone interview going today, so we're not recording video. Yeah, so everybody can't see that you're all dressed up.

I know, they get a reprieve from the ugly. I mean, it's, it's, it's fancy, fancy ugly.

Yeah, this is as good as you get.

Yeah, well, I mean, I went— I had a, I had a cocktail party to attend this evening, so—

That sounds very fancy.

It was extremely I was, I was actually hanging out with our friend Ashley over at the chamber.

Oh yeah, I remember her.

Yeah, there's, uh, we, we had a, we had a good time. We, uh, uh, yeah, we, we got to network with a lot of other business owners and operators and yeah, it was fun, man. It was a lot of, I mean, it's just always a good time and we had it at a, it was at a bank, which was kind of odd.

I mean, well, but banks are nice on the inside.

It was weird because like there was like free food and drinks and it's like usually I'm like going into a bank like either ask for money or ask for my money, and there's like a fee involved.

And it was, it was just free. So you didn't have to exchange any money, but you spent a decent amount of time at the bank?

Yes.

That's weird.

So, and this is actually a pretty cool bank. I mean, like, they have a lot of like authentic Texas history things in their, in their lobby.

And it looks like a plantation. Yeah, it's, it's really awesome.

Yeah, super, super cool bank. Uh, Spirit of Texas, our friends over there, by the way. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so, but Yeah, man, it's been, it was, it's been a good week. It's been a long day. Um, I'm, I'm actually excited about this, this interview. We, we, we pushed it out to Facebook, uh, the, the topic for today, and we got some questions from, from some folks that we're gonna get answered tonight.

Yeah.

So, um, I'm actually pretty excited about it.

Yeah, it's gonna be good. Um, I know this guy pretty well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, uh, um, he's actually married. I mean, not married. I'm married. To his sister.

To his sister. Yeah.

So he's my brother-in-law.

All right.

His name is James. James, say hello.

Hey, what's going on?

Good to have you on.

James, I have, I have one really important question.

Okay.

Could you beat up Kevin?

He could beat me up with his eyes closed.

You never know. Some people have a whole different beast in them. You never know.

Because Kevin strikes me as the kind of guy that would fight dirty.

Oh, I fight really dirty. That's my only advantage.

I guess if you're technically fighting correctly, then you are fighting dirty.

Well, there you go. Oh, man.

That's a nice way to do that.

I've been doing it right.

All along.

All along.

Everybody's been shaming you all these years.

That's right. Yep.

Well, James, we are excited about today's episode. And so tell us a little bit about you, what you do, and We'll kind of go from there.

Well, I have been a law enforcement officer, police officer for coming up on 10 years now. I've done a lot of the fun stuff that people get into it for. I've been SWAT in the past. I've done K-9 officer in the past. I'm currently working in the DFW area with the department here and I'm also doing Texas LTC courses on the side as well as some civilian training classes on the side. Just defensive handgun and things like that. I'm currently our firearms and firearms instructor— excuse me, our firearms instructor and our firearms tactics instructor, which is just the fancy PC way of saying gunfights. We're not allowed to say gunfights anymore, but that's what it is. And that's it. So yeah,

that's me in a nutshell, I guess.

Well, just real quick. So for people that don't live in Texas, what's LTC?

Okay, so LTC is the new term for what we used to refer to as a CHL. It's a concealed handgun license was the way we used to term it, and after legislation— oh geez, I think about 2 years ago when they enabled open carry, they switched it from a concealed handgun license to a license to carry, meaning now as long as you get this license, you're allowed to carry a handgun either on your hip Visible or concealed somewhere on your person. It's a license to carry, which means handgun. So yeah, if you want to carry a gun in Texas, that's what you have to have.

Awesome! Now, does that apply to like rifles as well, or?

There is no state law as far as long guns go. So statewide, you can walk around with a rifle and a shotgun slung over your shoulder if you want. There are a lot of cities that have city ordinances in place against it, so it depends on where you live. As far as the state goes, there is absolutely no law as far as walking around with a long gun.

So, okay, same thing about having it, you know, in the back window of your truck, right?

Oh yeah, yeah, transporting, uh, weapons, Texas is pretty relaxed on. Obviously, unless you're a felon or a registered gang member or something like that, that changes things pretty dramatically.

But how often do gang members register?

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's fun that they put that into legislation. How, oh, by the way, if you're a gang member, you can't own a gun. You know, is, is that really part of Oh yeah, yeah, it's listed in a lot of the LTC laws that if you're— there's an exception to this rule if you are blah blah blah blah blah, and one of them is a registered or identified gang member.

What? So what? I mean, like, just— I'm just curious, what constitutes an identified? Are they looking like at tattoos and things like that?

Yeah, so law enforcement would have to have had some interaction with you where law enforcement goes, okay, this guy is a gang member, and now they attach to your identification, an identifier saying that you are a gang member of so-and-so gang or have been identified as a gang member. So that way, if you try to conceal it later on with an interaction with law enforcement, we know. We already know.

Oh, that's crazy. Is that state or is that a federal thing?

Ooh, that's a good question. I know for a fact that it's state. I would imagine there's probably a federal database too, but as far as what we get as state police officers, it's just Just in the state, but I would be very surprised if we were not also reporting that to the feds. I would imagine that's probably part of it. Okay.

So lesson to everyone out there, don't join a gang.

Yeah.

It's good, solid advice right there.

If you do, don't ever get identified.

Yeah, that's right. Keep it a secret.

Don't go to the police station to register. That's for sure.

I'm in a gang.

Yeah, exactly. Well, so James, really one of the primary reasons we were excited to to get to talk to you tonight, um, was that we, we know what— I mean, our, our show is specifically geared toward homeowners, and we know that there is a lot of stigma around owning a gun. Um, a lot less in some of the southern states, um, but there's still a stigma around owning guns, and a lot of it surrounds, you know, having one in your home. I mean, I remember, um, I, I remember the first time that I told my wife that I wanted to go buy a gun. And she said, well, what are you gonna do with it? You know? And I said, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna at least own it. And she said, well, where are you gonna keep it? And I said, in the house.

And she said, not in my house. And I said, why? And her response was, we've got kids. And so, you know, part of that, there's just this stigma around how do I, how do I safely own a gun and own it inside my home? So, uh, maybe speak to that just a little bit and, and give us some information from your expertise about what are some safety things that someone needs to consider when it comes to having a gun in your home?

Well, you— I need to, I guess, preface a little bit and admit freely that I am not a homeowner. So if that makes me biased in some way, I'll get that out of the way. Sure.

This should apply to renters as well. That's fine.

Oh yeah, absolutely. And also, obviously, because I'm a current full-time law enforcement, I am a very heavy believer in people carrying weapons or having weapons that they can defend themselves with. So not to get into the political side of it, but that would, I think, have to be a prerequisite to owning a gun is you need to understand and believe that that's one of the best equalizers and rights you should have as a person on this planet.

Hmm.

But the biggest thing, of course, and this will vary state to state depending on state laws, so I can only speak to Texas as far as laws go, but general considerations that don't involve laws, it's just like you said, the big one is kids. Texas specifically is very, very strict on giving access to firearms by children, even if it's unintended. You can get in a lot of legal trouble. I mean, Obviously not paying attention to the very big ethical implications there of letting a kid have a dangerous weapon, especially this day and age when we're having so many unfortunate school shootings.

Yeah.

But that's the big thing is that if you're gonna own something that takes a very small muscle movement to theoretically end somebody's life, it's not something to take lightly. It's definitely not something to be afraid of. I don't wanna sound too intimidating and scare people away from it, but it's just something— it's just like driving a car. If you're willing to learn the laws and drive as safely as you can with a car, you need to be able to do the same thing with a firearm since you technically can conceal it on your body if you get the right license and certification and all that. So—

Well, yeah, and you mentioned something there that is of interest to me. I mean, in regards to kids, I mean, so are you saying that you can actually get into a lot of trouble regardless of whether or not someone is harmed? I mean, it could just be that the kid had, you know, gotten access and was observed by somebody that they had access to a firearm.

Oh yeah. Again, Texas specifically, because I know the Texas laws—

Sure.

It may vary state to state. Texas specifically has different levels of charges as far as if someone is hurt or not. And just providing access to a firearm to a child, which by Texas law is 16 and under, depending on how you're looking at it, can get you in jail time and fines and everything else just allowing them access. Now, because it's Texas, they're also okay that if you are specifically giving them access, i.e., teaching them how to shoot it or taking them hunting with it or— what's the last one? Oh, if they're doing some type of agricultural work. This is actually still written into Texas law, ironically, that if they're carrying it on their person doing

agriculture work, they're allowed to.

Mm-hmm.

As long as you gave it to them. So it's not an absolute no matter under any circumstances. You're still allowed to give it to them as long as they're being supervised and using it for a legal purpose and all that fun stuff.

Sure.

But yeah, just accidentally giving them access to it can get you in a lot of trouble. And heaven forbid that they actually get ahold of it and hurt themselves or someone else. And then you're looking at— I mean, it's all serious, but this is even more serious time. You could be in jail for a long time if your child gets ahold of a firearm, hurts himself or someone else. So a lot of legal trouble, a lot of legal things to consider.

Yeah, and so I, I think that, that, that in and of itself is something that, uh, is really, really good to know whenever it comes to bringing something like that into your house. So, um, let's say that we have, uh, theoretically we've gotten to the point where, um, where we've decided it's okay to have it in the home, and I would, I would suggest that As long as you are not living alone, if you've got another adult living in the house, whether it's a spouse or a parent or an aunt or uncle, anybody else that's living in your house, I think that's a conversation you need to seriously have and make sure that everyone's okay and on the same page, that

having a firearm in the house is something everyone's aware of and that everybody's okay with. Would you agree with that?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, if you're willing to talk with your children about not grabbing knives off the counter in the kitchen, it's probably kind of going along the same common sense lines that maybe you should have a discussion about what is absolutely off limits under no circumstances. And even other things like having conversations with your kids about if they're at a friend's house and they find a gun or the friend's parents have a gun, what to do, you know, how to handle that situation because you—

Mm-hmm.

You want to take the curiosity out of it and also instill at the same time the seriousness and the danger of the object that you're talking about, because the thing that gets everybody hurt is curiosity. You know, kids see it and they know it's off limits, and they, you know, or they've seen a movie and they think it's cool and they start playing with it, and, you know, that's when bad things happen.

Okay.

And again, it's the same thing as knives and electrical plugs and everything else. I mean, you childproof your plugs when you have a kid. That's It should go along the same lines that you're going to somehow have a firearm secured if you're willing to block your plugs. So it kind of goes hand in hand.

Do you think that there is an age at which it's appropriate to start having that conversation?

Ooh, um, a set age? Absolutely not. I mean, that's, that's definitely going to vary from child to child. You know your kid better than anybody else. Yeah. The scary thing, of course, again these days, not to go back into it too much, is the the kids getting ahold of firearms and taking them to schools aspect.

Yeah.

Yeah, I couldn't say a set age. I think you should know well enough your kids to say, hey, this is something we can address and talk about. Obviously, the younger they are, I would say absolutely under no circumstances should you ever be touching this and playing with this, nothing. And then as they get older, showing them how to safely use it and then telling them the only reasons they should be using it and things like that. It can progress, I think, as the child slowly grows up and learns a little more and gets some more responsibility. Sure.

So, um, kind of, kind of moving past that. So, so now we've, we've got to the point where we've decided bringing a firearm into the home is an okay thing. Um, how do we safely secure, uh, a firearm in our home? And, uh, we actually, um, Craig mentioned that we had a, had a listener question, uh, that we put out on Facebook, um, and, and it was Regarding types of how you secure it. So, Craig, why don't you talk to us about that and then let him answer that question?

Yeah, I mean, basically, one of our listeners was asking on Facebook, you know, what's gonna be the best way to secure these firearms?

And maybe even to go beyond that, I mean, like, maybe what are some of the questions we should be asking ourselves before we bring that firearm into the Okay, so I would, I would take it a simple sorting first on this and say if we're talking about generic general firearms, the easiest and safest way is going to be just a gun safe.

Sure.

Obviously big lock. There's lots of different locking mechanisms— keys, biometrics, keypads, all that fun stuff. As far as how you want to be able to get into that gun safe is really kind of up to you. If we're talking about a firearm you're planning on using in defense of yourself, yourself or people in that house, that's where you start getting into the—

Strategy.

Yeah, yeah, because you're having to constantly balance accessibility of that firearm, how quick and how fast can I get this thing out? And number 2, how secure is it for people that don't need to be getting it out, kids, anybody else? And that is a very difficult balance to strike. And that is going to be the balance that people will be fighting and arguing about over till the end of time, probably.

Yeah, I know, like, I know, like, in our house, I mean, like, we, we have guns in the home, we have a safe and all these kinds of things. And one of the things I, I try and walk myself through, my wife through, is, you know, if— lay in bed and, you know, pretend that you heard a noise and that you get up and you need to get that gun. And then, like, actually, like, time yourself. How long does it— I mean, like, and, you know, because you can do it calmly because there's actually no real threat, but, like— time yourself. How long does it take to get from here to there, to do this, to open that? And, you know, doing different kinds of

drills like that, have you found it to be helpful to people, or is it, you know, sort of stressful? What is that, one of those finding the balance things?

Yeah, absolutely. Um, when you're looking at how to safely secure it, there's, there's 2 things I tell people to always consider, and in this order. Number one, how secure can the firearm be for people that need to get to it and that people that don't need to be getting to it. And then number 2, after figuring if it's— if you can say that, okay, this is a secure way to keep this firearm however you want to keep it, number 2 is, can I get this thing out when I need to?

Right.

And coming from a part of my profession, like I said, is I'm teaching police how to shoot and what to do while they're shooting. Um, even trained professionals like that who have been doing this for a long time, when you start adding stressors into something as simple as doing a reload A lot of stuff starts falling apart. And a lot of people, even again, even cops, that they don't take into account stress, fear, different lighting conditions, different mental conditions. Have you just woken up from a deep sleep? Have you been sick? Are you on pain meds? You start adding all these factors into a very scary life or death situation. And a lot of things that are very simple to you get very, very difficult.

Yeah.

You used to see a lot of like barrel locks, which were actually things that went in the end of the barrel and then locked.

Yeah.

This was a long time ago, and you can imagine why that would be a really bad idea. Under stress, trying to turn the key at the bad end of a firearm to get this thing out while someone is theoretically coming at you or coming down your hallway or breaking into your home is probably not the best solution for keeping your firearm secure and also balancing accessibility.

Well, I was actually at the cocktail party I was at this evening. I was actually having a conversation with someone about some training that I had gone and done about some situational shooting and some folks that I was with that, you know, they'd been people that had been going and shooting at gun ranges for a long, long time, but just adding, you know, that they were having to draw their weapon from their holster.

And then fire it.

Uh, we, we had a situation where a lady actually, you know, fumbled her firearm in her hands and, you know, then proceeded to try and catch it as it's flipping through the air.

Yeah.

Which immediately made me duck for cover behind a cast iron stove. Uh, you know, but, but I mean, like, you're, you're absolutely right when you say like, just, just adding just like an ounce of stress to any sort of situation around a firearm can, can really change the situation dramatically.

Oh, 100%. And, and, and I've noticed, especially in the South, you know, God bless the South, a lot of people, when you are offering firearms training, you get a lot of response of, oh, well, I've been shooting since I was, you know, 8, 10, whatever. I know how to shoot.

Right.

Absolutely. Yeah, man, if you're shooting bottles off the back pasture fence, then yeah, you probably can hit that Great! But if you're talking about using a firearm as a tool to defend yourself in a bad enough situation that calls for a firearm, it is a dynamically different set of muscles, set of memory, set of brain function. All of that changes because when the brain is under stress, a whole different set of synapses and everything else starts firing. It's totally separate.

Yeah!

So trying to teach people how to defend themselves when they already think they know how to shoot, The shooting part of it is the very last millisecond of what happens in that entire situation. You need to train up until that point. Now don't get me wrong, obviously being able to hit what you're shooting at is paramount, 100%, not taking anything away from that.

Right.

But the people, like you said, that have been shooting on ranges their whole life, they can punch quarter-sized holes in the targets from 25 yards, or— oh great, man, well let's move the target. Let's, let's put you under those stresses. Let's make your draw time. Let's, uh, Let's give you a couple of dummy rounds where you're going to have the gun jam in the middle of it. And all of that suddenly goes out the window. I mean, it's a drastically different thing that people just don't factor into the decision to have the gun in the house and be ready for the gun in the house. And just like you said, just walking you and your significant other, spouse, whatever, the process of getting that gun out

changes totally different when you add something easily and very realistic like darkness. If you hear a noise in the night and you can hear someone in your house, do you flip the bedside lamp on? Do you want to stay in darkness? If you stay in darkness, do you know how to get your gun out in complete darkness? Do you know how to check it? I mean, all, all of that changes again drastically. We're not even talking about the actual shooting yet. Accuracy and all that means nothing if you can't get the gun out in darkness or anything else depending on the situation.

Yeah, and I would, and I would think that that would also change on some level what you choose to purchase for a safe, right? I mean, and here's the reason I say that, because, um, I mean, one, one of the, one of the things that I, I know you own, um, is you own a really good biometric, um, safe that allows you quick secured access to your gun. Um, but I mean, if you're— if you know without a doubt that if someone comes in my house I am not gonna have the wherewithal to do anything about it other than maybe pick up my phone and dial 911. Um, I mean, is it worth spending the money on

a really fancy biometric safe, or would it be better to just get something that you can put somewhere else and you know your gun is for not those types of situations?

Well, if I was, if I was answering that from a legal standpoint, completely legal, I would say if you're going to buy a firearm, you absolutely 100% have to buy some type of safe along with it.

Okay.

If you buy it and all you get is a holster and you're thinking, oh, well, I'm gonna save some money and get the safe later, you're— you got to keep it somewhere and you're just setting yourself up for a lot of trouble.

Yeah.

From a personal standpoint, I, I can't see owning a firearm and not wanting to use it for some type of defensive purposes.

Yeah.

Unless it's strictly for hunting. That is completely my personal opinion. That is not in any way saying that's, you know, you have to buy a firearm for that. But that's why I feel comfortable or in and around firearms is because I use them to defend myself and others because of my job. I teach people how to do that. I can't understand why you would purchase one if you weren't planning on using it either for defense or for hunting, unless you're some type of collector or something and that's, you know, Totally different. If you're, if you're a first-time buyer, I'm assuming that you're probably wanting that firearm because you're wanting some type of defensive purposes or because you're planning

on taking it for something practical like hunting. I don't know many people are going to drop money on a firearm just because they think it looks cool.

Right.

I, I just, I don't. Maybe they're out there, but I, I haven't really run into those in all my years of doing this. So if you're talking again, I guess like I said, we need to split it up. If you're talking about just pure function hunting or even for just fun shooting at the range, Locking it in the safe in your closet or somewhere in the garage, that's your best bet. A nice— unfortunately, they're expensive— nice fireproof gun safe that can lock away and not have to worry about it. Those are not the best for defensive purposes because if you're having to get out of bed, run to your closet, flip lights on, find the keypad, find the

biometric, and then get it out of the gun safe, I don't know how practical that's going to be for you if you're needing it in a really bad situation. Biometrics, like you were talking about, there's a lot of different safes. First of all, key activation, good old keys, combination keypads where you type in a certain number combination, biometrics that read fingerprints, handprints. And then there's RF safes, which are— it's like one of the ones that I have that have— they emit a small RF radio frequency signal. Mine came with a wristband 2 or 3 stickers that you can stick on anything, and then also an RF keychain tag that you hold one of the RF transmitters, whether it's the

armband, sticker, keychain, whatever, up next to the safe. The safe recognizes that's what it is and the safe pops open. The handgun's right there.

Mm-hmm.

So the one that I personally have, like I said, came with a wristband. So what I would do when I came home from work, first thing I do is I walk in, it's on my bedside table. Handgun would come out of the holster that I was using for work. It would go in the safe, safe would get shut, the wristband would go on my wrist, and that was it. I didn't have to worry about it. It was completely secure. There was no other way in that— well, I say no other way. They have locks as backup in case the power goes out or batteries or whatever, depending on how they're powered. But for most situations, I didn't have to worry about it. I'd walk up, I'd hold my hand over the safe, the

safe would recognize the wristband, the safe pops open, handgun's there ready to go. So as far as being ready, I think RF safes are some of the best you can get. The brand I had was Hornady, H-O-R-N-A-D-Y. They make a whole line of safes called Rapid Safes. They make them for your cars. They make them for your homes. They even make a shotgun wall mount if you're rocking a shotgun for home defense. But the cool thing with that is it comes with so many different options. If you want to have the wristband on and also have something very innocuous looking on the bedside, like you could stick one of the stickers on the bottom of your lamp. And if for some reason you or your wife, if you, you know, sorry, significant other, whoever it is,

decides to need to get access to the gun and they know where that sticker is, they pick up the lamp, hold the lamp over the safe, safe pops open. Kids don't know about the sticker. Kids don't know about how it works. You don't tell them how it works unless they're old enough to want them to. And you can stick the sticker, you know, anywhere you want, inside of a book or a Bible, or very, very easily concealed, but also works very quickly and reliably as well.

Now, was ease of access kind of your primary in your purchase there?

It was for me at the time. I bought it before I had anybody in the home with me. And then realizing afterwards, thankfully, that I'd made a good decision because it's also really, really secure. If I was going back in hindsight, I would make security the first priority. And then after that, I would go with ease of access if you're planning on living with anybody else. If you're by yourself, I mean, legally, yeah, you can have it laying around anywhere you want in your house. It's you. But worst case scenario, someone breaks into your place and steals the handgun and does damage to somebody else, you could technically be liable for it if it was shown where you were grossly negligent, which is the term.

And realistically, that's almost impossible to prove in court, but I don't want to have to sit there on the stand and defend that decision.

Yeah.

Because I didn't want to spend a little bit more money to get something that was a little more secure. That's not a world I would want to have to wake up in one day where I'm on the stand, CNN and everything else. No thanks.

Yeah. Well, is there a kind of safe out there that kind of meets the criteria that you would look for now?

Yeah. I still have the Hornady safe. I still would really recommend those just because they're really, really nice and secure and they're so quick to get open. You see a lot of these online, the people that are making like specialized cabinets or bookshelves that look like normal bookshelves and then pop open.

Okay.

The only thing with those is if you have kids, I would not ever let your kids see how you get it open. Because if you're not securing it any other way, whether it be a trigger guard or, you know, storing the ammo separate from the firearm, whatever, We all know kids and we all know that they see and hear things that we sometimes don't think they do. And the first time that kid sees how that shelf turns into a gun distribution machine, guarantee you there's, there's gonna be problems.

Yeah.

But if you can keep that secret and keep it away from them, I think those are pretty good, good calls because they're very concealable. They look like normal shelves. I've seen some that look like coffee tables and they use magnets. It's usually like a little like a statue or something that looks very, very normal sitting on the shelf, and you move it to a specific position on the shelf, the magnets link up and the bottom of the shelf drops open, reveals the firearm. Those are, those are pretty nice.

Oh yeah, those are slick.

The, the very old school that all firearms— you will, when you buy a firearm new, they all come with, um, these kind of locks, the cable locks that run up through usually the magwell, out the top of the ejection port or whatever kind of firearm it is, and then you lock it and use the key Very, very secure because that requires you to not have the ammo in at the same time because it goes up through the magwell.

Yeah.

But again, if you want to try to not only find a key but get the key in that lock, get the lock turned, then find your ammunition source, get the source into the firearm, all under stress, possibly in the dark, maybe after someone's hurt, I don't see that working out very well for you. That would be really hard.

Well, you, you mentioned a couple of things I want to, I want to dig a little bit deeper on. You mentioned shotguns not a while back, uh, and you were saying whether or not you decided to rock a shotgun for home defense. How do you feel about the difference between shotguns and handguns in the home versus for home defense?

Well, the, uh, the firearm community, uh, is some of the most, uh, passionate And opinionated. You're probably— yeah, I'm very, very opinionated. Depending on who you ask, they'll tell you this is the absolute best thing you'll ever need. This is the only thing you need, whether it's the type of firearm, the type of ammunition that's in it. Oh man, you can go down a rabbit hole and argue with somebody for hours. What I always tell people is, are you comfortable with it? Can you use it whether you can see all of it or not, i.e., in the dark? Yep. And what kind of house are you using it in, or what kind of living quarters are you using it in? You'll hear people say shotguns are the best because they have a spread, and every positive thing

in firearms, there's always going to be the exact same on the negative side, I promise. So that spread is great if you're under stress. The negatives are it spreads, so the further distance you're shooting down a hallway, however, you don't know where all those pellets are going.

Right.

Not to mention if you live in an apartment or a duplex or something like that, if you're firing 9 different bullets per trigger pull down the hallway, You have 9 different things that could possibly penetrate and go into someone else's place or, you know. So I— again, we can sit here and debate about ammunition and all that, and they, they make specialized ammunition for home defense that's supposed to fragment a lot more when it hits solid objects. Great for when you're talking about, you know, bad shots hitting your drywall, fragmenting, not going through the wall and all that. At the same time, the negative of those are if someone has on very thick clothing, how much of that is going to penetrate the thick clothing and get

to what you'd actually need, which is their, their insides?

Yeah.

So yeah, I try to stick to the, can you use it well? Can you use it under stress half decent? And can you hit what you're shooting at? If all those 3 things apply, as far as what's best for you is gonna vary from person and house to house. I know some guys that will grab an AR because they are scary with an AR and they would be 100%, I would not ever want to come in their house if they've got that rifle on them. Whereas there's some people with an AR that I wouldn't ever want them to try to shoot that thing. So it comes down, can you hit what you're shooting at? Can you do it safely? Can you do it under stress? All those things. If you are comfortable with a

shotgun and you can hit what you're shooting at and you know the layout of your house, because a lot of things with the shotgun is it is technically a long gun. So moving around the house with a long gun can get difficult.

Yeah.

If you haven't received any training in that, You're kind of multiplying things that can go wrong for you.

Talking about like narrow hallways and corners and different things like that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Making entry through doors, the longer the gun, the more difficult, especially keeping it safer when you start moving it around like that because it's so long. Nothing wrong with the weapon. It obviously will do its job 100%. If you, if you connect with the human body with even a couple of those decent-sized buckshot pellets, yeah, you're— they're gonna stop whatever it is they were doing when you decided to make them stop. So it comes down to the person and what they're comfortable with and what kind of environment they're going to be in and also what kind of training they've had.

Yeah.

Even handguns are the universal— they're easy to move around with, they're easy to keep secured, almost everybody can have one, they're easy to get access to. So usually handguns by default for most people in most situations are probably the best decision. But again, If you, if you, if you're bothering to do some training and bothering to get yourself a little more educated and kind of fall down the rabbit hole, some of the long guns can be really good solutions too. So, um, don't rule anything out and just seek some of that information out before you make your final decision is what I would say.

Well, and that's, that's probably a good point too there. And you might have some, some good thoughts for people. What, what might be some good resources and training that people can reach out and find relatively easily?

Well, depending on where you live, there's always independent companies that are doing training. You can find LTC/CHL classes everywhere. And the problem with those, and this is a personal opinion of mine, is that they're not good on teaching you how to use the handgun. They hit the basics.

Right.

They're mainly focused on the legalities of carrying a gun, which is what obviously is the purpose of them.

Yes.

And the problem we see in law enforcement is people go and get their LTC and that's it. They never even go out to the range to fire the gun they bought just to get the LTC for. Um, like you said, you never see them actually draw from the holster they bought. Um, if, if you've never tried that and you're planning on carrying that gun daily, I don't know what you're doing. Like, I, I'm sorry, that sounds very, very jerk statement, but like You went and got a driver's license. It'd be the same as you going to get a driver's license and never planning on driving the car. Like, what are you doing, man? Like, why

are you bothering to get the license if you're not gonna run through the course?

Or only driving that car in a stressful situation.

Yeah, yeah, driving around a parking lot. That's it. That's all you can do with it.

Right.

Okay. But yeah, there's training solutions out there. There's not enough. In my opinion, a lot of it depends on where you live.

Yeah!

If you can find anything, even just a basic handgun course that allows you to draw the handgun, teaches you how to reload the handgun, teaches you how to clear malfunctions, which is a very big part of it that people don't cover, please take it! It'll cost just a little bit of money and the knowledge you'll get from that class to help you go towards when you really need that firearm is— you can't put a price on it. So There is training out there. You may have to seek it out, but it's out there and it's getting a little bit popularity. I think a lot of the military and police world is starting to transfer over to a lot more civilian training that you can

find, which is good and bad depending on how you look at it.

Sure.

So yeah, there are companies out there that are doing it and I highly recommend you get some type of training if you're planning on using that gun to defend yourself or anybody else. Please, please do it. It'll— I promise you, If it ever happens, it will help you, especially from a legal standpoint, because if you're someone who has not ever trained and has not ever even gone and shot the handgun you're using, if it comes down to where you're carrying it every day and for some reason, heaven forbid, you have to draw it and use it, the first thing that defense lawyer for either the person's family you killed or the innocent person you hit while you were shooting at the bad guy, whatever happened, is going to go after is

what training have you received? How good are you with that firearm? Should you have been carrying it to begin with? And if your defense of that is, well, yeah, I shot it when we qualified 8 years ago, it's not a— it's not gonna hold up very well for you. It's not gonna be good.

Yeah. So, um, one of the things that, that I've heard you tell me before is that, uh, a lot of people will go get their LTC or their CHL, and then, um, you know, you can renew that every, you know, say 5 years. Um, but again, if you get into a situation, say 20 years after you got your your handgun license and something happens and you've not been to another handgun licensing, uh, class since then or any type of training, then you're probably going to be held liable in different ways than if you would have gone to some sort of training to continue to, to kind of keep yourself up to date.

Oh yeah, yeah. The counterargument I hear a lot actually is when we, when we relate it to the driver's license. People say, well, I've never been in any driver's education classes since then, so I don't know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, dude, but you drive every day.

Yeah.

You get behind the wheel every day. You can drive to your work. I guarantee you don't realize how many times you use your blinker, how many times you hit the gas and the brake, how many times you buckle, unbuckle, because you do it automatically. So you're already automatically doing the safety things you should be to use that vehicle. If you're translating that over to firearms and you've never started the car, as an example, never put your seatbelt on, never use your blinker, and you're expecting to do that under stress when your life depends on it and you've never practiced that stuff, it's not going to end well for you. It's just not. It's not going to go well. If you happen to survive the situation, your legal troubles after that are going to

be, oh, really so bad. So bad.

Yeah, makes sense. Um, one really quick question, uh, going back to, uh, the conversation about, uh, long guns versus, uh, handguns. Um, are you familiar at all with Bond Arms, the company.

Bond Arms? No, I'm not.

Yeah.

So they've got a really unique, uh, gun available, and it holds 2 bullets, and one is a .410 shotgun shell and the other is a .45. And—

Oh my gosh.

So, so the first, the first shot is the, is the pellets, and the second shot is, is, you know, the, the kill shot. So it's like, it's like this, you know, they decided what is, what is the ultimate self-defense, um, if I can, you know, hit him with some pellets and then, you know, kill him after that. Uh, it's just, it's just an interesting concept.

So is this simultaneous or is this—

No, it's a, it's, it's 2 shots.

So are they like different barrels?

Yeah, 2 different barrels.

Okay.

And, uh, I pulled them up as you were telling me about them. Yeah, it's an over-under kind of stacked deal, looks like.

Yeah, yeah, it's kind of, kind of interesting looking. It's, it's really small and concealable. Um, but it's, uh, it's random. Uh, but they're, they're, uh, they're very interesting. I mean, you can only put 2 shells in there, so, uh, you can't— yeah, yeah, reload. They're hoping you get it with the .410, uh, because your reload time is gonna be significant.

Uh, so one, one thing you'll— that's very unfortunate about the firearms community is that there is a A metric ton of bad information. And there's, there's a lot of people that will— that were told something by granddad, told something by the guy behind the counter at the gun store. And let's, let's be honest here, the guy at the gun store is trying to sell you things.

Right.

As much as he is trying to tell you, oh yeah, man, this would— his bottom line is he wants to sell you something.

Sure.

And I've seen more just flat-out wrong information come out of gun stores anywhere else.

But Do you have any examples of like bad information that you've heard coming— not out of like specific stores, and we don't want to like, you know, name anybody, but like what's an example of like some bad information you've found people with?

So kind of the cliché thing I always see, and I've had this happen to a couple of my classes, and I've taught civilian classes, is that a woman will show up, a female will show up, and she's— she went to the gun store, said, hey, I'm going to an LCC class, what do I need? And I hear this all the time, the guy behind the counter say, oh well, you need something small and easily concealable. So here's you this little 6-shot revolver because that's perfect. You put it in your purse, blah blah, it sounds, you know, sounds legit.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, it'd be awesome concealable. But they'll hand it to somebody who usually is, you know, a smaller framed individual.

Mm-hmm.

You're handing them a gun that has one of the hardest trigger pulls on the planet, the heaviest trigger pulls on the planet, a shorter barrel, so your accuracy out at distance starts dropping off dramatically.

Yep.

It only has 6 rounds. If you look at even police data, police shootings accuracy from 2008 to 2012, I believe, was around 15 to 16%, and that's people who train with firearms.

Oh my goodness!

So you're gonna hand this to a woman who's never carried a handgun before, that is gonna have a trigger pull that is in no way gonna allow her to stay on target while she's pulling the trigger, if she can even get it pulled back. And you're selling this to her because on the concept of it's easily concealable. It may be, but the actual use end of it is completely wrong. All of that is completely wrong for the individual that's gonna be carrying that firearm.

Sure!

Just this Bond Arms deal. So I'm looking at these things. They're selling it on a decent concept like, look, you know, we carry 2 different ammos. Okay, that is assuming that what you're shooting at is gonna be close enough to that .410 shell to work.

Sure.

If they're anywhere past probably 10, 15 meters, that .410 shell's useless. Completely useless.

Yeah.

So now you're down to a single round shot after that.

Right.

I can tell you from very, very solid police data, a single shot rarely stops anybody.

Okay. That goes back— that goes back to Zombieland, right? Rule number 2, right? Remember the double tap?

Yeah, yeah, I gotta always headshot him. Yeah, it doesn't matter, it's easy, it's no problem.

Is that true no matter the caliber?

Oh, there's a rabbit hole there. Thanks, Craig.

No, I mean, like—

No, no, it's a legit question, and this is another very unfortunate bad information you hear all the time. So what I will tell you is the most extensive ammo study ever done in the history of the human whatever was done by the FBI and it was done in— oh, I don't know what code this one did— 2015, 2016. It's been very, very within the last 5 years, 5, 6 years. And they reevaluated their ammo that they issued to all their federal employees. And at the time they were carrying the .40 caliber. They've been carrying the .40 since—

Long time.

Yeah, late '80s, early '90s, something like that. It was a while ago, right? So they decided to sit down and reevaluate this because Ammo and handguns specifically have evolved a lot since the early '90s.

Sure.

So if you take just a straight-up block of ballistic gel, which is what you see everybody testing it with, and shoot it with a 9mm, a .40, a .45, yes, the .45 is going to leave the biggest hole. Absolutely, 100%, no question there. No one's going to argue with that. If you do anything other than that, there starts to be a lot of other factors that come involved. The reason that the FBI is now issuing 9mm is a lot of different reasons. You'll hear a lot of people say .45 is all you need, punches the biggest hole, all you need is .45. Okay, maybe. Number one, if they're just standing there and you're shooting them straight up, well then yeah, hand me the .45 all day

long. I'm not worried about that.

Right.

If they're standing there naked with no clothing on, sure, hand me the .45 all day long. Let's go. When you start adding in anything else, intermediate barrier penetration, glass, wood, anything the bullet has to go through, heavy layers of clothing, which here in Texas we have an issue with guys in the winter wearing, you know, heavy Carhartt overalls, jackets on top of that, any intermediate barrier penetration, that .45 starts dropping off dramatically.

Hmm.

You're starting to have a lot of problems there, along with the fact that the .45 is the largest round, so your ammo capacity is the lowest. You can carry the least amount of bullets. So in a situation where you're shooting 14% or less by statistics, I kind of want all the bullets I can get there because I'm not going to necessarily hit all of them. So if you drop down to the .40, the .40 is the highest felt recoil of all 3 of the possible— all 3 popular cartridges.

Higher than a .45?

It is. A lot of manufacturers will make a 9mm frame and just shoot it a .40 out of it because they don't want to have 2 separate manufacturing processes, and the .40 is not quite high enough pressure to justify more reinforcements, whereas the .45 is. So you'll have a smaller frame handgun shooting a larger caliber bullet, which is a lot more felt recoil.

Okay.

Along with the actual weight of the bullet combined with the powder that's pushing it, transfers a lot more felt recoil, whereas the .45 is a little bit heavier round, doesn't have quite as much powder, and there's a lot of, a lot of ballistics that go into it. But as far as felt recoil, the .40 is the highest.

Mm-hmm.

It also has mediocre intermediate barrier penetration, just like the .45. The more surface area there is, i.e., the larger the bullet is, the less penetration it gets because surface area distributes the impact once it hits whatever it hits, whether it's flesh, intermediate barrier, or whatever. So you're not getting as good penetration. And we know based on military and police data that penetration is where it's all at. I can, I could pop somebody all day long On the outer layers of the skin, he's just gonna get pissed off and keep coming at me. If I'm not doing damage to internal organs, there's no point.

Right!

You're not gonna stop whatever he's doing. So penetration is a lot of it and so they realized with the 9mm, it's the lowest felt recoil, it's the highest ammo capacity so I can carry the most. It has some of the best intermediate barrier penetration— glass, wood, clothing, all like that— because it's so small, it's punching through it really well. And because handgun rounds have evolved so much, their internal expanse— what damage they do once they go into something as far as how they expand— is almost the same across all 3 cartridges. If you really sit down and look at internal photos of 9mm, .40, and .45, you can't tell too much of a difference. There is a difference, not any way saying the .45 is not the biggest. But if I can do close to the same amount

of expansion inside of you, but I can put 6 more shots in you faster, easier, and with better penetration, that's a pretty easy decision for me to make. So that is based on FBI data. That is not anything personal that I have studied. That is straight FBI, and that's what I would refer you to because those guys did a ridiculously extensive study.

Sounds like it.

Yeah. And I mean, they're the ones who are in charge of teaching us, you know, local cops how to investigate shootings and ballistics and all that. So they kind of know what they're talking about.

They know what they're talking about.

Yeah.

Well, Craig, are there any other questions that we had? Uh, people ask?

Yes. Uh, let me, let me actually get over there real quick. Um, one, one of our— one of the people that commented in, and I, I thought it was a kind of an interesting question, they wanted to know what you thought. Let me see if I can read this so I can get it right. He said, what is your opinion on government-mandated firearm training and proof of security in the home as a prerequisite for gun ownership?

So this would be a 2-part answer.

All right!

The first answer will be from a cop viewpoint. I wish there was more training. Again, I think we kind of touched on it earlier. A lot of people are carrying firearms, which I'm all about, especially as a cop. That means there's a lot more good guys out there with guns. I'm happy about it. If I get into some trouble, I really hope there's somebody close by that's carrying one that can gun bail me out if I need it. Sure.

Yeah.

But no one, and I say no one, the vast majority of gun owners are not training with them. And that does not help me. That just multiplies my problems. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm an off-duty officer, just as an example, and I'm in Walmart and somebody, I don't know, gets angry at his ex because she's not giving enough, whatever. and guns start going off and I find out, locate where the shots are coming from, moving on it, identify who the shooter is, identify him, give him a chance to give up, which let's be honest, not gonna happen.

Okay.

He tries to turn on me or whatever, I burn him down, do my job, I'm good. As I reholster, I catch one on the side of my head because an LTC holder that's around the corner heard the shooting, came around the corner, saw me holding my gun, didn't bother to identify himself, didn't bother to see the badge hanging from my neck, didn't bother to do anything. He just saw somebody with a gun, pulled the trigger and killed me. That is not a good ending to a situation that could have been very easily resolved if it had taken a little more training, a little more time, a little more investigation on his part before he just popped off.

Sure.

And you see a lot of people that don't bother to think about things like that or take into account the fact that there may be other people out there carrying guns legally and they just start carrying a gun and think the first person they see carrying a gun is going to be bad. I wish there was more training. I really do. I think it's— you're doing yourself a disservice if you're not training with the thing you're gonna be carrying.

Yeah.

Now, the other answer will be from a personal standpoint where I am— ironically, I work for the government, but I'm very hands-off as far as government goes. I don't think it should be mandated that you should have anything that the government tells you you should have or shouldn't have in your home. I don't think that should be any government's right to tell me what I have in my home. I would hope that common sense prevails there, that if you buy a handgun, it's common sense you should be getting— I'm sorry, any firearm. Common sense should prevail that you should have a safe way to store it. But I don't personally think government should have any right to tell me

if I buy anything what I should be doing with what I buy. It's just a personal belief. But I guess that kind of gets gray area too, where we can play the whole what-if, what-if game.

So Well, yeah, and it does change a little bit. I mean, I think on, on a lot of— in a lot of people's minds, where that would really change is whenever kids show up into the picture.

Yeah.

And again, like you said, let's hope, by all means, let's hope that common sense prevails there. But unfortunately, you know way better than, than we do that a lot of people don't hold common sense whenever it comes to this type of thing. So it's, it's like a weird catch-22. And I completely understand where you're coming from, and I'm not even saying that I disagree with you, but I do think that there, on some level, it gets to that kind of sticky situation of how do we protect people and yet also give them rights? You know what I mean?

Yeah, it's a really, really— I don't want to say gray area because it's a very hot topic area, because at the same time, we make you take a driving test to drive a car.

Right.

And while I do give you a test to carry a handgun in the LTC qualification, the test is stupid easy. I mean, I'm sorry, it's ridiculously easy to pass that test. So if we're making you do possibly more difficult things to drive a car than it is to carry a gun, I think we need to readjust that just a little bit. Maybe increase more of the actual firearm training in the LTC class as opposed to just law-based training. Maybe increase the, the difficulty a little bit. But of course, unfortunately, the double edge to that is you can come back with and say, look, you can't discriminate against my 80-year-old granddad who lives by himself. He can't fire a gun as effectively as other

people, but it's not in any way all right to say he can't carry one to protect himself, which I also agree with. So it's, you know, like you said, there—

It's tricky.

There's no good solution.

Yeah.

I just think it needs to be reevaluated a little bit in the current state that it's in. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Um, well, uh, James, we've hit on a lot of things. Um, is there anything else that, that we haven't hit on that you think is important for a homeowner to know when it comes to kind of safety and thinking through owning a gun, uh, that we haven't already hit on?

Um, I would say make sure that you know the layout of your house with your eyes closed.

Okay.

Worst case scenario, a bad storm comes through, knocks power out, and bad guys know power's out, so alarms may not be working, phones may not be working. So bad guys will sometimes use that to their advantage. If you can't move around your house in the dark, that's something I would absolutely work on. I would also have a contingency plan if you're planning on carrying a gun with your significant other and your kids, what they're going to do if something happens and you decide that it's a time you need to draw your gun. What is their responsibility and their job in that situation?

Okay.

You don't want to be figuring that out on the fly when stuff's going bad.

Yeah.

You want to have that down, especially with a significant other for sure.

Okay.

Let me ask this real quick. I mean, because I don't think we even talked on this. Is a safe or a biometric lockbox, is that the only safe way to have the firearm in the home?

Oh, no, no, no. You can have— there's a A lot of different ways. You can— the easiest way, if you don't want to spend a lot of money on a safe, is to store the ammo separate from the handgun.

Okay.

If the kid finds the gun and there's no ammo in it, it's a lot better than if he finds it with ammo in it.

Yeah, absolutely.

You're going against the whole accessibility equation there though, because if you're having to go to 2 separate places to get the gun loaded, I don't know how practical that is.

Yeah, sure.

But that's a safe way. They have trigger locks, which are mechanisms that literally go inside the trigger well and you have to unlock and take off where you can get access to the trigger. They have— we already touched on barrel locks. They have the cable locks that we touched on. They have individual small safes. They have standing-up gun safes. They have car safes. They have— they even have bags that have zippers that are strong enough you can lock the zippers if that's something you want to go into.

Yeah.

There's lots of different ways out there. Find one that works for you and that balances that accessibility versus security. Well, and go with that.

But between your mattress isn't the best.

No, no. If you're keeping it in the bedside drawer, just laying in the drawer, well, no, I guess if it's only you, sure, you know, go for it. But, uh, yeah, here technically, even in that scenario, if someone breaks into your house and steals the gun that was just laying around, you could possibly be in some legal trouble there. Even though they broke into your house, you're still required as a gun owner to have it secured.

Yeah.

Not that I think Texas would ever do that. I don't know any DA in Texas that would touch that, but technically the way it's written, you could.

Yeah.

That makes sense. Anything else that you can think of?

This may be a little far for some people, but I also highly, highly recommend doing some type of low-light training if you can find it. If not, just messing around your house with a flashlight in low light and That whole environment, which is— we know most break-ins happen after dark. Unfortunately, that's what the stats tell us. Trying to do anything in low light, much less wield a deadly weapon, is a whole different ballgame that people just don't even think about.

Yeah.

Everyone thinks, yeah, the bad guy comes in, I grab this gun, I shoot him, I'm good to go. And it never crosses their mind that they may not be able to see what's going on. And now either they're going by sound or is it one of the kids? Is it some Please get some type of low-light training if you can, and if not, work in your house one night, the kids, wife gone or whatever, and work on that. There's a case that I know we had in the last department I worked for, not the one I'm currently with, the last department, where a couple was asleep in their trailer home and woke up to sound like someone in their trailer home. And the guy had a handgun next to his bed, pulled it out,

saw someone in the hallway and shot him. It was a 70-something-year-old Alzheimer's patient who lived in the same trailer park as him and went into the wrong house thinking it was his.

Oh, goodness.

That is— you're liable for that.

Yeah.

You can't just be firing at random things. Anyway, it went to court and I think he ended up not being charged obviously with manslaughter, but he did get a lesser charge because you can't be negligent. That's considered negligent with a firearm.

Yeah.

You have to know what's going on and what you're shooting at.

Yeah.

So, so definitely work on the low-light stuff if you can find some formal training, and if not, at least play around in your house with a flashlight and get a little more comfortable with it.

Yeah, I was gonna ask, I mean, like a good flashlight might be like a good option to, you know, keep by the bedside rather than, you know—

Yeah, I personally tell my classes that if you're carrying a gun, you should also be carrying a flashlight.

Yep.

It's just, just me, just personal. There's no law on that. But you, you don't know when, even in the middle of the daytime, if you go from a bright outside to a dim interior, the amount of time it takes your light, your eyes to readjust, could be the amount of time that you could get, get something in trouble and be in a bad situation. Yeah, so even if it's just a small pen light, something. If you're carrying a gun, I've been— my personal opinion, you'd have a gun, a light as well.

Okay. Yeah, and I think that, uh, one of the just repeat things that I hear just over and over is be responsible. Just make sure that whenever you are making the decision to own a handgun, don't do that because you think I should or I want to defend myself or, uh, or anything like that. Do it responsibly. Make sure that you are researching the, the right firearm for you. Make sure that you're researching, um, the, the best safe to put it in and make sure that you're training yourself and make sure you're doing the things that make you a responsible gun owner. And if you're not going to do that, at the end of the day, if you're not going to do that, um, I, I don't, I, I don't know why you

need to own a gun. I don't think you do need to own a gun. I think that if you're going to not be responsible to, to take those extra measures and make sure that you're doing things right, my personal opinion, Kevin Hackett's opinion, is Just don't own it. Don't do it. It's not worth it.

Oh yeah, 100%. And that's, again, especially in the South, we're very pro-gun. So yeah, a lot of the culture is built around handguns, so people are around them and comfortable around them, which is great. But the law does not care how comfortable you are with it. It's very strict on— it's, it's a deadly weapon. There's a reason we call them deadly weapons. It's, it's, it's a, a very minute muscle movement that will end someone's life instantly. It's not something to take lightly. It's not something to push to the boundaries, you know, to make you feel cool or tough, which is another problem we have with males unfortunately when they get their LTC. But, and like you said, it varies from person to person.

The handgun that works for me is not in any way going to work for Kevin's wife, my sister. There's no way.

Right.

There's no way she could pick up the gun that I use on a daily basis that has a light attached to it and an extended mag. There's no way.

Right.

So like, like, like you said, it's very important to do your research. Go into a gun store to get your hands on guns, feel them, see how they feel. Don't necessarily take the advice of the guy behind the counter. It may be good advice, I'm not saying it's not, but get more than one opinion on things, um, and find somebody who knows some things about it and ask them and get, get some good information and not what Uncle Dave says around the campfire one night, right? Get some legit quality information before you make a very important and very life-changing decision. Because I promise you, even if you survive whatever it is you pull a gun out to shoot a guy for, your life is forever changed. Because you will be in court, you will be

defending yourself, you will be defending that situation. Even if it was 100% justified, you're still going to have to defend it. Your life will never change.

And Uncle Dave is nowhere to be found all of a sudden, so don't listen to him.

Yeah, the granddad that tell you to shoot the Coors Light bottles off the back porch is not going to help you. No, not at all.

Well, listen, James, thank you, uh, for the time that you've spent so far. Um, and, uh, we, we want to transition now, just for time's sake, we want to transition, uh, into a segment that we do with all of our guests called the Final Four.

The Final Four.

Yeah, so this is, uh, just 4 questions we ask all of our guests. Um, and, uh, you know, It's a test, so good luck. Here we go. Question number 1, what's the must-have tool you won't leave the house without?

Oh, is this— have to be one thing, or am I limited to just one thing?

One thing, man. That's all you get.

Well, unfortunately, I would have to say, with my profession and the oath I've taken and a lot of the things I've seen, I'm not— I don't leave my house without a handgun. That's just me. I just don't really—

It's actually the second time that's been the answer on this show.

That, that's really what you're going with, James?

Yeah, I was gonna say phone and handgun because, uh, yeah, it doesn't do me any good. But yeah, I gotta pick one. I can, I can always shout if I need to. I can't really make up for not having a handgun when I need it. That's pretty much it.

All right, well, this may be the most like, like focused answer we've had based on the topic that we're talking about.

Awesome. Yeah, we have been talking about For a while, yeah.

All right, second question. What's a job you walked away from? So this is, you know, specifically something that you just kind of said, I'm, I'm not gonna do that, I'm gonna let someone else do that because I don't have the expertise to do it. Um, so I mean, it could be a career, it could be something within your career, but just kind of something you're like, I'm done with this.

Um, I would have to say, and this is completely career related, so maybe I'm on the wrong path on this, but crimes against children.

Okay.

Especially child crimes.

Yeah. Okay.

No way. Could not pay me enough to do that job. I was with a department that were taking applications to move into the CID division for crimes against children. No. Nope. Nope. Somebody else could do that all day. Not me.

Nope, not interested.

No, not— could, could not do that job.

No way. Okay. All right. Yeah, that'd be tough. That'd be really tough. All right, well, let's keep going. Number 3, how do you wind down at the end of a long day?

Hmm. Um, I usually, after a shift, if I have time and energy still, I'll usually try to work out a little bit.

Okay.

And if not, I come home And I will eat something and watch something, either an episode of a TV show I'm on or a movie or something, and just kind of let my brain turn off for a little bit, which is probably not the healthiest decision. But that, yeah, that's, man, I usually get something to eat and watch something, even if it's just an episode of a random TV show. I got to watch something.

Are you on any good shows right now?

Oh, I'm on too many. I can't keep up with all of them. I was very happy about Game of Thrones until the last episode.

Okay.

The writers just decided to quit.

Okay.

And, uh, you're not the only one that felt that way.

I'm not a Game of Thrones fan, but there's a lot of people that felt that way.

There's a lot of GOT angst out there right now.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm definitely a big, uh, I like to laugh when I can, so big comedy fan. Whether it's adult cartoons like Archer or the oldies but goodies like Office and, you know, Parks and Rec or whatever.

There you go.

I got a lot of good ones. Yeah.

All right, cool.

All right, last question. You're almost there. Uh, what's one of the best pieces of wisdom or advice that you've ever received?

You can never stop learning.

Ooh, yeah, that's a good one.

Especially now as I'm transitioning into more of an instructor phase than an executor phase. One of the instructors I really look up to has always said he is a student first and an instructor second.

Okay.

It's really hard to be able to teach people if you have decided you know everything and can't learn anything else, which is literally impossible.

Yeah.

You can't stop learning. You should always be searching for new information, new ways to do things, all that fun stuff.

Or just quit. Yeah.

Yeah. If you're at a point where you think you're good and knowledgeable on something, You're probably falling behind. Yeah, there's just no way.

I would think teaching is a really good reminder that you don't know everything. I mean, like, I, I get stressed out like trying to learn more when I'm presented with the opportunity to teach anything.

Oh yeah, yeah. Especially, and again, going back to what I do, the techniques I was taught of just, of just shooting in the basic police academy now, almost a decade ago, is, is out of date. They come up with better and faster ways to do it since then. It's always evolving and you've got to stay on top of it. You got to be watching for new ways and better ways of doing things.

Yeah, that's awesome.

Well, cool. Well, I've only got one more thing here. And, you know, we have mentioned more than once on the show, we would love people to go on iTunes and give us a rating and review, just help us out a little bit. And we got one just just, uh, the other day, 5-star review from Carlotta Marie. Uh, Carlotta Marie, whoever you are out there. Yeah, hello. Um, would you say hello, hello, hello, or just—

Just the one.

Oh, just the one. Okay.

But that I think she's excellent too.

Okay. Yeah. Uh, so she says, excellent show, funny, entertaining, and more than anything, interesting and helpful. I'm glad I started listening to this gem. It'll be— uh, I'll be sharing it and continuously coming back to it. Thanks, guys. So, uh, hey, thanks for— thanks for that. Uh, we you out there. And, uh, you know, we can, um, uh, we will always give a shout out if you give us a 5-star review. We'll give you a shout out on the show. How about that? Is that a deal?

It's a deal.

Okay, well, I just now told Craig that, so that's— we just now made a deal on the show.

You're signed up.

Yeah, he's now signed up.

It's written in blood.

That's right. Um, but yeah, uh, go, you know, you can find us all over the place, and, uh, we're on Stitcher and Google Play iTunes, YouTube, all of those fun places. You can send us information or questions or anything. If you— if you've got stuff you want to chime in about this episode or any others, send us a message at info@homeownershow.com. And you can go to our website homeownershow.com and Facebook page, all of those sorts of things. We're out there on the web, so let us know if you got anything. Craig, Anything else?

No, just James, thank you, man. I mean, I feel— I mean, we've been talking for a little more than an hour now. I feel like we just scratched the surface. We probably need to have you back in to talk about this some more, man. This was really, really good stuff.

Oh, hey, man, I'm always down. Stuff I love, and like I said, there's a lot of bad information, so if I could— anything I can counteract that, help get some decent stuff out there, I'm all about it. I love it. So for sure, thanks for having me.

We appreciate your time, man.

Awesome, dude. Well, yeah, thanks for Thanks so much for, for being on the show. And, uh, you know, like always, we're here every Tuesday, so download our show, share it with your friends, and until then, we'll see you next time.

See ya.