Remodeling with Lauren Wilson

This is episode number 194 of The Homeowner Show. Whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is Craig Williams.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show. We're so glad you could join us for another episode here in The Homeowner Show studios. How you doing, Kev?

I'm good, I'm good. Life's busy and crazy and moving into a house. It's been fun. We've been painting and—

You've been milking this cow for about 2 months now.

Yeah.

Just move in already.

Oh, I'm in. I mean, oh, you want to hear something awesome?

No.

2 doors down neighbor—

2 doors down?

Messaged me last night. I'm with you.

Okay.

Saying, hey, so your, uh, the person that bought your house put something up on the Facebook boards. It was like, anybody know how to, uh, maintenance this, uh, water softener of mine? She goes, wouldn't you think that she would just talk to you about it? And I was like, I don't think she likes me very much, and I definitely don't like her very much, so I really don't think that, um, that would be the best thing. And she go— That launched a really cool Uh, an interesting conversation about— well, I, I want to—

They like the lady that you sold your house to?

No, but I want to be protective a little bit.

Face only a mother could love.

I, I want to protect the— this person a little bit, um, because I do like them. And so, uh, but I'll just say, like, it was very, very interesting. I'll have to tell you about it later.

Off air. Off air.

But it's really good. All that to say, the scandalous sale of the April Sound House continues. Gosh, it's bizarre. It's really bizarre.

So that lady haunts my nightmares.

Well, yeah, of course she should.

Her and her creepo dogs.

Yeah. Oh my gosh. She's extra. I'll just say extra.

I don't know, I guess.

No, you need to go listen to episode 185. I think that was it. 85 or 86. This does go back a little bit.

Yeah.

Yes, it does.

Yeah.

So anyway, but other than that, life is— oh, we got a new dog.

That's right. What's the dog? Did you name it?

We named it.

Did you get to name it?

Well, that was never a question in my mind.

So because you, you were very emphatic with me that this is my dog, I get to name it. My kids are out.

Yes.

Did you name the dog?

Yes, I did.

All right. What's the dog's name?

The dog's name is Trixie.

Trixie.

Trixie.

Should have given it to the kids.

Uh, I'm flipping you off in my mind right now. Um, no, so, so here's what's interesting. After I decided on Trixie, um, I realized that that name is actually in Lady and the Tramp, which is the name of my other dog, Lady.

Is it like the hoochie mama dog in the pound?

Uh, no, that's Peg.

Um, it's really bad that you know that.

I do. Um, but I know more than I should about Disney things.

Um, oh, I do too.

Yeah, but that movie— yeah, but, uh, what I realized is I was like, I think I've heard that name in Lady and the Tramp before. And so I went looking for it. I did not remember this until I found it. Uh, Trixie is one of Tramp's old girlfriends. That Lady asks about one at one point. So she's not in—

She's not in the movie.

Not in the movie, but she's referenced in the movie.

Yeah, she's gossiped about.

That being said, I got lucky and, uh, chose— Lucky, not the dog name. I got lucky, um, and chose a name that was in the ecosystem of the current dog that I already have. That's pretty impressive.

Yeah.

So anyway, uh, Lady is, uh, my thought to be, uh, a Maltipoo, but she's definitely not that. She's got poodle, but I don't know what else she's got. Uh, but this dog is a Bernedoodle.

Bernedoodle?

Bernedoodle. Do you know what that is?

I don't.

It's a— is it a Bernard? Nope. Well, it's in the family. It's a Bernese Mountain Dog.

Okay.

And a Standard Poodle. She's gonna be a big puppy, and she— you gotta come meet her. She's the sweetest puppy. We were, we were running around the property, uh, this afternoon, and all of a sudden, like, she just rolls over on her back and she lays there until every person in my family came and petted her. And then we walked away to the house and she was still laying there on her back. Like, this is like a, this is like a 16-week-old puppy, and, and she's just laying there. Yeah, she's, she's a lot of fun. Anyway, life's good with me.

For those of you listening in that hear the third voice, it's Lauren Wilson joining us tonight.

Hello, Lauren. Hello. We'll come back to you in a minute. Craig, how you doing?

I have learned something important about myself this week.

Oh, really?

Yes.

I can probably tell you. What? We don't have time. Okay.

You've been working on a dissertation?

I've been waiting for you to ask me this question.

What's wrong with me?

No.

Yeah. Okay. Well, now's not the time.

Now's not the time.

Well, it took 193 episodes.

That's right.

He finally figured it out.

True.

94.

That's right.

Sorry.

The big reveal.

That's right.

I hate ladders.

Ladders?

Yes.

What is it? Is it a heights thing?

I just don't trust them.

Oh, wow. Okay. Now, you said at the beginning of that conversation that you just started, I learned something today, which means—

I said I learned something about myself this week.

Oh, this week?

Yes.

Okay.

I have spent—

This means that this week, yes, you were on a ladder and it did not go well.

Well, I was on a ladder multiple times this week.

Okay.

And each time I did not enjoy it.

Okay.

So ladders—

What kind of ladder?

Multiple kinds of ladders. A-frame, extension ladder, the— what's the one?

Collapsibles?

Yes.

I love those.

I do like that ladder. I like it because it's convenient and it doesn't go too high.

You appreciate—

mine goes like 16 feet or something. It goes high enough. I'm not gonna die if I fall off of it. Well, I mean, Wow. Not because of the fall, but I almost—

I almost died coming out of 9 feet. So, which, by the way, our friend Jared came through the roof yesterday. What do you mean?

At his house? He fell through the roof?

Not through. He caught himself on the joist, unlike me. Uh, but yeah, I gotta show you.

He's okay?

He's okay, but he's scraped up a little bit. Yeah.

You're talking about JW, right?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

Dude.

Yeah, I know. Crazy. You call him, make sure he's all right. Yeah. So anyway, all that being said, you— how did you figure this out? Like, no, like, other than you didn't enjoy it?

You know, it's, it's sort of like exposure therapy.

Sure. Okay.

Like, I just did it a lot this week and I was like, you know what, I don't— I've hated it every single time. Yeah, little ladder, big ladder, don't care. I don't like being on ladders.

Okay.

I just don't like it. Like, I was putting— I— so I had to, I had to be on one constantly Putting up this awning for the barn.

You know what you should have done for that? Hmm. You should have like gotten two ladders with like wood in between them to create a plank.

Okay.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

It's like it's like a faux. What are those called?

I'm gonna leave you hanging, so I don't know. The one that the you have a contractor right there.

Why don't you ask her what the you know scaffolding scaffolding. That's the things.

Ah, okay.

Yeah, scaffolding.

She's like, oh yeah, that's it.

Oh yeah, yeah.

It's like charades.

Yeah. Like the thing. I was doing the thing.

I don't know.

I didn't realize we're talking about elementary concepts. Right, right.

Scaffolding, you morons. All right, so that's— well, that kind of sucks actually because ladders are important. I've been on a ladder a lot this week actually, and I'm about to need a Do you have a 12-foot ladder?

Yeah.

I need it.

Like a 12-foot A-frame or just— no, I don't have a 12-foot A-frame. I have an 8-foot A-frame.

I have one that I can easily—

And I have an extension ladder that can easily do 12 feet.

Yeah, me too. I, I, I need an A-frame because I'm gonna change out 2 fans in my living room that is way up there. Why are you doing it? Because I'm not gonna pay someone to do it.

It's 12 feet. I'm not going up there.

I am.

But you're gonna, you're gonna pay as much for the ladder as you would for someone else to do it.

I can get one. I, I like—

he's like, I'm working on it.

No, there's, there's one available for me. I just have to bring it home.

You mean from work?

Yes. Yeah, I can get it. I just— you're closer. I timed it. It was 14 minutes to get here.

No, I don't have one. I don't have one.

That's fine, because, because he doesn't like them. Now we know.

I have lots of them. I don't like any of them.

Okay, so, okay, good to know.

Yeah.

What about Christmas lights? What do you do for Christmas lights?

I don't do the Christmas lights.

Okay.

I, I candy cane them around the fence, which keeps my feet firmly planted on the ground.

So it is— so it is a heights thing?

No, I'm not afraid of heights.

Prove it.

We're taking this out.

I don't know how to prove that.

I do.

It's not going to be on a ladder. I mean, I'll jump out of an airplane. I mean, I guess I trust the parachute.

Really?

Yeah.

Oh, okay. I would do that too.

I don't know. I haven't decided.

But like, I can, I can justify, I can, I can justify dying jumping out of an airplane because like, I know on the impact, like, I'm probably not going to feel much, but like, if I fall off a ladder, I'm gonna feel it.

Oh yeah. Like, as someone who's fallen From a great height of 9 feet. It was higher than I wanted it to be. Yeah, it was not fun.

No, no.

Although I will tell you, uh, the concrete—

He fell into his garage.

I, I got really lucky. I need to show you a video of where I fell. Oh, I don't know, like right before you sold your house?

Yeah, so a month and a half ago.

Yeah, end of January, beginning of February. In it, yeah, it was Yeah, I, I, I was very, very lucky.

I've had some close calls on ladders before.

Yeah, I don't like it.

It's like, there's like, even if somebody's like holding it, the fact that you feel the need to hold it while I'm on the ground tells me everything I need to know about my trust relationship with the ladder.

And then you've got the guys, and I know many of them, who are like top rung of an A-frame, no big deal.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, like, I don't do that.

I had to do that doing this goofy awning. On the top? I had to.

You needed to get a bigger ladder.

Well, it wasn't, it wasn't that the ladder wasn't high enough. It's like when you're putting like metal roofing on and you're doing it like panel by panel, you have to like reach over in order to put the screws in. And so like, you can't like, you know, I'm 6 feet tall, but like I can only reach so far.

So yeah, yeah, about half that. Roughly. Well, yeah, okay. So, well, that really sucks because there's a lot of reasons to be on ladders.

I know.

So, I'll get over it.

I'll do it. I just don't like it.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, that's good to know.

I'm gonna be vocal about it.

I can tell.

And I'm gonna hire people that like going up on ladders.

There you go. Look, that's the thing is like you can hire people to do anything.

It's true.

Just about.

It's disgusting.

It could be. It could be really disgusting. Oh my God.

How dare you make such a broad statement?

Broad statement?

You can hire anybody to do anything.

Yeah.

I mean, that's a broad statement.

I didn't say anything about broad.

You made a statement about broads.

No, I didn't.

This is going in a direction I didn't really sign up for.

No, I don't think it's helping us at all, actually. And I think we should move on as quickly as possible. Oh, and, and, and to think she sat here before we started this and goes, I have no idea how this is gonna go 2 hours. And I'm like, well, it might not, you know, but here we are.

We are supposed to start at 8:30. You know what time it is?

Home Improvement show talking about the oldest profession in the world.

That's true. Well, on that note, let's introduce our guest that we have already seen and heard from. Lauren Wilson, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you.

Technically a return guest.

It's true. Yeah, yeah, I was on for a minute.

Yeah, literally about a minute, maybe a little bit longer. We were at, uh, we were live at the Ice House. What is the name of the Ice House? I just call it the Ice House.

It was an ice house.

An ice house. Anyway, we were there and Lauren was on for a few.

They haven't paid for a sponsorship, so they're not getting shouted out.

That's good. Yeah. Until until you actually pay for something, you're the ice house.

Do you do you want to do the the thing that we have to do?

We should. Okay. Probably like we're even though we just introduced our guests. Let's take a mid roll here.

Yeah. We're about halfway through the show.

Might as well do the the anticipation of Lauren. We'll have to wait. Sorry.

Yeah. We teased it. Pay the bills, Kevin.

Okay.

All right.

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Before I do my ad, I wanna let you know that Eric Thornton says that you're nasty. This episode is also—

Wait a minute. That is a little bit pot kettle talk right there.

We can't, we don't have time. There's no time.

Okay.

This episode is also brought to you.

Thanks a lot.

There's no time.

Jerk face.

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No deductible?

No deductible.

There you go.

It's just the fee. So, I mean, and so this is the way it works.

Okay.

You pay your $35 a month.

Yep.

And let's say it's month 2.

Mhmm.

You're now in for $70. Mhmm. What would have cost you probably $4,000 has now cost you $70 to treat your home and continue the warranty against termites.

Well, and, and let's say this real quick. Uh-huh. The, the last few weeks.

Yeah.

All I've heard you talk about is how many termites you've seen. Yeah.

And, like, if you follow me on any social media, like, you will see crazy termite infestations from time to time. Which can just cost you beaucoup and beaucoup of money.

And you—

and, and that doesn't even consider the cost of the repairs.

Right.

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No.

Because we have a guest.

That's right.

That we need to get to. Yes.

Um, her name's Lauren. We've already introduced her as Lauren. Here's the deal, Lauren. Let's talk more. Um, tell us a little bit about you and what you do and how you started, like, in that business.

Okay, so my name is Lauren Wilson. Um, I own a remodeling company called Redefine Remodeling. Um, I have been in this industry for, I don't know, like over 10 years now. I got started in it because my dad had a make-ready company, like from when I was like really little, 3 or 4. He did that all when I was growing up.

And real quick, I'm not familiar with that term.

What is that, make-ready?

So Basically, he did a lot of like getting properties ready for the market.

Oh, okay. I got you.

Yeah.

So a lot of the work that he did was with Freddie Mac. And so when they had a whole different system back then, and so they would have someone come in and then clean out the properties. And then the contractor would go in, bid on the job. And if it was under a certain amount, then that contractor would get the job. And then if it was over a certain amount, then they would have a second person come in, but you had to be approved on the Freddie Mac list. And there was only like, I don't know, like 5 or 6, maybe 8 contractors in the whole city of Houston that were on that list. And so all of the

brokers and their own cities like Sugar Land, Katy, Humble, you know, they would have to go through that rotating list. And so, because it was a pretty big deal to get on it. And so we even had like, he had houses like from Galveston all the way to Conroe. So anyway, so he, he did that all when I was growing up. And he passed away when I was in college, and my mom kept the company going. And I told my mom, I was like, look, I'm gonna come after I graduate, I'm gonna help you with the company, but I want nothing to do with houses. Like, I just— I'm just gonna help you with this. And then so I graduated, and then she kind of like taught me how to do it. And

then after a couple of months, I was like, I really want to do this. And so I was driving a truck and So I did that for about like 5 or 6 years, and like our bread and butter was Freddie Mac, and it was all the foreclosures. And that was really cool because it was a lot of turnkey. You know, you would go in, you would bid on the job. We would do anything from like roofing to flooring, HVAC, like literally everything. And but it was a lot of it was like pretty straightforward of the kind of fixtures and everything that we would put in there. And so I did that for a while, and then we got rid of the company, and then I became a home inspector, and I did that

for a while. So I learned a lot. I already knew a lot, but I learned a lot more. And then I worked for a builder for about 4 years, and then I started this. So it kind of all led me to where I am right now.

I know a lot of people will hear people talk about like Freddie Mac and like Fannie Mae. Like, what, what is that? So for people that don't know.

Well, so they, they're the ones that own—

It's not a person, obviously.

Right. Yeah. They're like banco. They, they're the ones who like foreclose on the properties and then they're the ones who sell the houses basically. So.

So are they like foreclosing on properties on behalf of the bank basically?

Right.

Okay.

Yeah. So we really only had the way that they did it was the contractor had communication with Freddie Mac and then with the broker. And so once we completed our portion of the job, like we had no idea who bought the house or anything. So we would complete it and then they would put it on the market and then, you know, that was the end of it. So, but I learned a lot through that because they were really strict on their timelines. Like they would, we would put a bid in and they would say, okay, well, this part is approved. And they would literally just send us an email. This is approved and it has to be done by this date. And so that's how I got really, really good at scheduling.

So.

Because it was a lot forced upon you.

You cannot be late to the bank, right? In like every way.

Well, like, what would happen if you, if you were late? I mean, like, would they just like, um, like—

Honestly, I never, I never found out.

Never found out. That's good.

But I honestly, I think it was one of those things where if you do it a certain amount of times, then you're just kind of taken off the list.

Okay.

You know, the contractor list, which is, it's very, very hard to get on that list. Now, I would imagine the way they do it now, it's like, it's completely different. Really? Yeah. So, um, I don't even want to—

We don't have to go down that road. Yeah, it's not the scope of this conversation.

But, uh, but yeah, that's how I got really good at scheduling.

So yeah, yeah. I mean, like, I imagine if they put you on a tight timeline, you just kind of learn naturally how to like live within that system, right, that they're making, that ecosystem that they make you exist in.

But that's like something that you've Like you really pride yourself on those. Like it's, it's like it's this long until I'm going to get to your project and it's going to take me this long to complete your project. You're really, that's big for you, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So I, I'm very upfront with people if they come to me and they tell me what they want to do and I'll say, I'm sorry, I can't bid on that because if you want it done within this timeline, you just need to go to the next person. I don't like to take on more than I can chew. And because I, it's just bad for everybody. So I only take on a limited number of projects a month. I know what I can handle. I know what makes people happy. And so, and when I give somebody a bid, I can tell them, hey, I can start whenever I start. It'll take this amount of days. I'll give

them like a 3 to 2 or 3 day range. And so I always hit that date. And so that's—

That's great.

That's a big thing for me.

What is really impressive, because I think there's a lot of contractors in general that that is not a strong suit of theirs. A lot of times the really good ones that can do that, they wind up having a scheduler, like someone, you know, a spouse or a, you know, an employee or something that does that for them and have to stay on the contractor. Like they really have to stay on them. Like, hey, by the way, you've got this appointment, you got that appointment, whatever. Um, but I, I think that as a homeowner, as someone who's actually, you know, rendering your services and I need someone to come remodel my kitchen, like, it— that's a, that's a stressful thing for the homeowner. And I mean,

for example, I gotta get all of my stuff out of all the cabinets and I gotta make sure that I have a way to eat over the next— you know, you told me it was gonna take 2 weeks to remodel my kitchen. Like, I don't know what I'm gonna do for 2 weeks and we can't eat out every night. It's not gonna be that long. Okay, a week, whatever. Uh, but, but can you really turn around a kitchen in about a week?

Well, it depends on what it is. I mean, you can still eat in there. Yeah, you know, but it's like when the paint's going on. But we're really good though about if you need to use your sink and they have sprayed that day, we'll let you uncover the sink and use the sink.

Well, that's really good. But I mean, I guess my, my point is it becomes a really stressful thing for the homeowner And so if I have to prepare for all of that and you're in and you tell me, well, I've got 4 jobs ahead of you, like, I have no clue what that means.

Hmm.

You know, 4 jobs, is that, is that 4 days? Is that 4 weeks? Is that 4 months? I really, I really have no idea what that— and they go, well, we'll call you about a week before we're ready. Well, and then it winds up being 2 or 3 weeks after they call you, and it's like just this whole balloon Um, and I didn't know it was going to be this, and now I've chosen this contractor, so I'm locked in. I've already put a down payment, like all these things. And so I would say that, uh, finding a contractor like you that actually schedules really well, huge plus.

I think people just don't like to say no, right? And I've, I've gotten to where I'm okay with saying no because it's gonna make— you're gonna have a better experience if you go with somebody else that's gonna be able to start it when you need to start it if I'm too busy. And I don't want to tell you that I'm gonna start it and I can complete it by this date if I can't. And I also don't like to start something unless I have all the materials. I was having this conversation with a client earlier today. She was like, well, when can we start? And I was like, well, we need to pick out all your selections

first, you know.

Yeah.

And I can tell you how long it's gonna take, but, um, it just— unless we have every material, because of the way that it's taking to get some materials right now, unless I have everything and I know that I can send them in on these certain days. I don't want to start and then we're waiting on a sink or a faucet or something and, you know, we can't finish. Then you're just sitting in here with a half-completed kitchen, right?

Yeah, so it's a problem. Yeah. And so what's interesting, my, uh, so my mother-in-law— so we bought, we bought our, our new home. My mother-in-law is building a home on it, um, and Southern Luxe is actually doing the job. Uh, she's building a barn.

She signed on the line.

She did, and so pretty excited about it really.

I think we should. I think we should get credit for that one.

Well, we've gotten credit for one, but I told them you're gonna get.

That's two houses now.

Look at that.

Yeah, exactly.

And no commissions paid.

You'll have your time.

Yeah, we're gonna.

Your time is coming.

It better be. That's all I'm saying.

Chip and Joanna, they're about to come knocking.

Well, we we know. We've been, we've been preparing.

They know.

Yeah, they know. They know. They don't know yet though. Speaking of timelines, we're on theirs. Um, but I— the thing, the thing that's really interesting about the way they do, uh, things is because, because that question has already come up, like, what about— like, you tell me it's going to take 4 months because she's not doing financing. She's sold, she's sold a house that she had paid off, so she's gonna be able to pay cash for it. And so they said 4 months once we get, you know, going. Okay, great. How, how do you know it's going to be that timeline? That— and, and their answer I really loved. They said, well, we buy all of the materials immediately. Like, they do their design, like the finishes, everything is

done before they ever break ground, and they go buy all the materials and just store it in their warehouse.

Mm-hmm.

And so they don't They, they're not like a lot of these contractors. They work on draws, right? And it's like, for especially for home builds, you, you go do it whenever you run out of money. You got to go do a draw, and now I can go buy the sheetrock, or now I can go buy the, the studs for the frame.

When I was a home inspector, I used to do that for banks. I used to go and inspect and make sure that whoever was borrowing the money from the bank, they were— they had completed that portion of the draw. And so I would take pictures of it. So I could show the bank, hey, they already did this part. So now they can get their other part of the money.

Yeah. Well, I guess the cool thing is they buy all the materials upfront, but, but so I, it's weird. Can you talk a minute about the supply chain and like what it's done to your business?

Yeah, it's, it's made it so it's increased the pricing and then it's made the timelines difficult. I feel like though, the way that I have worked around the timeline aspect of it is it's like, hey, I just need you to know we're not going to be able to start when you want to start, but we can still complete it within the same amount of time that I plan on completing it because we just have to wait for the materials to get here. So, and then I have to explain to them, obviously, you know, if you make changes in the middle of the repairs, if you decide you want something different, then obviously that's gonna probably change things, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, some things are taking the same amount of time and then some things are taking an extra month.

Have you come across anything you're like, well, that's weird. Why is that?

Not anymore.

Not anymore?

I mean, really now it's like anything is up for grabs of how long it's going to take.

Oh, really? It's just sort of like a boat rocking back and forth. You never know what it's going to be.

Yeah.

Okay.

So yeah, I, I think it's really— it's, it's a bizarre world we live in, and it's changing because there's another aspect of— and, and maybe you can speak to this as well— I found that people are more likely right now to remodel their home than they are to buy.

Oh my gosh.

And so, because—

so funny you said that, because so like the entire concept of my company has been a lot of like turnkeys. So investors who have a tenant and then the tenant moves out and they're ready to sell it. So then I would go in and kind of fix it up and get it ready for the market. Or people who purchase a house and it's maybe like they just want to change some things, make it a little more personal to them. And so I'll go in there and, you know, remodel it before they move in. But I can't tell you how many clients I've had, like, probably like 95% of the clients that I've had lately are people who tell me,

you know, we just decided we're going to stay here and we want to change it to how we want our style, um, because we don't want to deal with moving. We don't want to— yeah.

Well, I think it's so much. I mean, we, we have just gone through this process, right? And we were very, very fortunate Um, because we were, we were within a week of our close date on our house before we had a contract on a new house, and we literally put in an offer on one home. That's it. So we got— I feel like we, we got lucky in some ways, but a lot of people don't have that same experience in just finding a home. So if I, if I know I can't find a home very easily, then why would I sell mine? And I know that it, in the long run, I mean, if I just stay where I'm at, then I can take a home equity loan or do

whatever and remodel. And it's a good option, and you can still make your home whatever you want as long as the, you know, the location is, is where you want it to be. You can kind of make it whatever you want, right?

Yeah. I, I feel like there's a big fear factor though, like people who have kids and They're afraid of, um, you know, listing their house. And if, especially if they have to sell first before they can buy, you know, they don't want to get it under contract and then they don't know where they're going to go. And so I think it's just, it, it's more safe.

And yeah, oh, it was scary because that's what we had to do. And, and, and it was, uh, it was a huge leap of faith for us to sell our house without knowing where we were going to move. In fact, we— when we put our house up on the market, we literally didn't know where we were going to move.

Did you have an idea of like where you wanted to go?

No, no, no, we knew, we knew what we wanted, but we had no idea where we were going to go, right? It's not just that we— I mean, we didn't know, were we gonna sleep in a tent? Were we gonna sleep in a hotel? Were we gonna sleep—

That's kind of fun.

Yeah, that we've got a camper, and that was always kind of our backup, is we've got a pretty nice camper, we could do that. Um, and we wound up finding the perfect place for us. But, um, it's— that's a big deal.

Yeah.

We have a 7 and a 9-year-old, is the middle school year, and we didn't know if we were going to be in the condo that we wound up being in for 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, a year. We had no idea, you know, and it's, it's challenging. So I, I think that, that remodeling is, is a really, really good option.

Right now, a friend of mine sold— she was building a house and she sold hers because the builder said, hey, it's going to be done in 60 days. And so she was like, okay, well, are you sure? Yes, I'm sure. And then it took—

Famous last words.

It took 5 or 6 more months and they were living in a motel.

Yeah. Yep. Yep.

So when you make the motel decision, you're like, okay, any day now. Yeah, any day now, right?

Well, I mean, even, even where we were, it was— it's— it was a 2-bedroom, 2-bathroom condo. I don't know.

At least we're in a condo.

Yeah, it was— no, no, no, it wasn't. But it was like, I don't know, I'm guessing it was around 1,100, 1,200 square feet, something like that. Um, but we were so ready.

to be out of there.

I mean, close quarters.

Yeah, because, well, my, my kids— I mean, not that this is a huge deal, but I've got a boy and a girl, and they're, they're sleeping in the same room, which they like doing sleepovers, you know. They're young.

It sounds like they're getting at the age though where— yeah.

Yeah. And it was just like one of those deals where it's like, we're— it's such first world problems, right? But at the same time, it's like, how dare you whine? It's like, exactly. I do feel that way sometimes. But I mean, it's like, this is— we sold a 20— perfectly good 2,400 square foot home. Perfectly good. No reason to sell it other than we wanted something different to move into half of the space that we had, literally. And you know, it's, it's daunting to do something like that.

It is.

And it doesn't take long. The motel It's definitely worse, but I mean, whenever you do anything for, for 2 months that's not normal and it feels temporary, this was 2 months. I mean, a lot of people are doing this for 4 or 6 months.

And you're just like waiting, you know, to get to the finish line.

Yeah, exactly. So I mean, when you're having that conversation with, with homeowners, do you try to— I mean, I know it's your business to be a remodeler and that's what you do, but like, do you try to push them to you're— you would make a smarter decision to remodel than to buy, or do you just kind of—

That's not my job.

Okay.

I'm not a real estate agent. My job is—

What do you want done, right?

Yeah.

So, okay, so what do you like to do? If you— your perfect type of job?

Oh man, I don't know. I'll do— so I, I like the interior. I'll do the exterior, I'll do extensions and stuff.

Um, like additions and— Right.

Yeah, but I will never touch a pool.

Oh yeah, that's smart.

I have, I have companies I can recommend, but I'm not gonna— it's funny because, um, people are like, oh no, you're gonna get in the business one day. And I'm like, well, I don't wanna— I don't wanna say never because I got into this saying like I never want to work on houses, you know. And here I am 10 years later. But, um, I don't know, I just, I think I have, especially lately though, I've gotten so many kitchen requests and jobs. And a lot of it is, you know, people who they just want to stay where they are. And that's the first thing that they want to change because that's where they are every day. It's where their family is every day.

And it's very visible. People that come over see it, right?

Yep.

Some people have to climb.

Well, I mean, why do they put the cabinets so high? Like, did I show you in our pantry?

No.

The shelving in our pantry, next time you're over there, you need to look. There's literally, I think there are 7 shelves.

Oh my gosh.

It's so tall. Like, I'm like, oh, you added those. They're a different color. Amazing. It's, I'm like, I, there's no way normal sized humans couldn't get the things up there. So, gotta get on a ladder. That's right. So, well, I, I think kitchen remodels are, are great.

They're fun.

Because you're, you're also significantly improving the value of your home, and not just in dollars, but likability. I mean, comfort.

And just honestly everyday enjoyment, I feel like.

I agree.

What are some— I mean, you're obviously doing a lot of kitchens right now. I mean, like, what are some things that you're seeing people want in their kitchens?

So it's been a lot of people who go from the dark to the light, whether it be, you know, like a light gray or a white or like a lighter cream. And then so the backsplash, it's It's kind of like a 50/50. Some people will do the quartz up to the backsplash. I've been having a lot of people who do, instead of like the ceramic tile, they'll do like the glass tile.

Yeah.

Which is really pretty. And then a lot of gold hardware.

That is coming back.

Yeah.

I mean, it shouldn't, but it is.

It looks good. If you do, you have to do it right and you have to pick the right gold.

Because it's not like that brassy gold.

I was about to say, what kind of gold are you thinking about right now?

Well, when it's next to the green refrigerator, it doesn't necessarily—

We don't have that. There's no green refrigerator. Okay, there may be some green cabinets, but—

I will tell you though, the green freezers are still around because those things don't die.

They don't make them like they used to. That's the problem.

That's right, those avocado green.

Have you have you seen those the retro appliances like the like Danby and I think they're really cool. They are cool.

They're they're actually really good quality.

Yeah.

And like they're not just some oh look we're gonna you know cheaply knock this thing off. I mean it's like they're good quality but they're a lot smaller. They're small. Yeah.

Yeah they are.

Yeah.

So like I I was uh I was at where was it? I think it was at Home Depot today.

They're good for townhomes.

Oh, yeah. Like smaller places like that. Or like Airbnbs and different things like that. But they're super expensive.

Yeah, they're a big price tag.

Yeah. But I saw Samsung has a new refrigeration unit that you can change the color of the front panel on them now.

Oh, really?

Yeah. That's interesting. They have different— in the appliance department, they have one of them out and it has like 4 different panels on it so you can see some of the different colors. And then it has like a, a color swatch next to it so you can see like all the different colors available to like mix and match. So you can— so it almost looks like a built-in.

Yeah.

But not.

Yeah.

Um, interesting.

So that—

well, and I think, I think that's, that's— I think that's probably something that is, is coming up that like people are like Rather than getting, you know, and not to like, we're not knocking because we had Chef Colin on talking about, um, Viking and—

yep, what was the Sub-Zero?

Sub-Zero. Um, how they can do like, uh, a custom panel, like your contractor can put like a custom panel on the refrigerator to match the cabinets, you know, like I'm sure you've seen that.

Yeah, I'm about to do one.

Are you really?

Well, it's for the dishwasher, but—

Oh yeah, same, same thing.

Yeah.

Yeah. Um, so I think, I think maybe Samsung's trying to like, like eke their way into that market a little bit and be like, okay, we can play this game.

Yeah, it's pretty smart.

Yeah. So this is not that I like Samsung appliances. I mean, like, they're, they don't tend to last all that long.

This isn't the best picture, but we just did this to our house. They're, the cabinet doors are being painted right now.

Are you, are you laughing at his choices? No, I'm laughing.

I'm like, hey, my refrigerator's a Samsung.

It is. It is actually.

But I've only had it a year.

So you can't paint it.

I'll get back to you in about 5.

But we painted our island green.

I love green.

Yeah. And then the cabinets are white. It's not—

I mean, I love, I love, I love an accent island. I do.

Are you showing her stuff that everybody else can't see?

It's exactly what I'm doing. It looks good though, doesn't it?

I do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Aaron, Aaron, man, I'm not gonna say his last name because I even told him yesterday. I was like, dude, I—

Isn't it Bernizol?

It is Bernizol. That's what it is. Bernizal. Aaron Bernizal. He's a great painter if you need a painter. Um, anyway, he did it. He does a great job. And, uh, whenever I told him what we wanted to do, he was like, yes, yeah, please do.

So I actually had the last, um, one of my last clients, they told me, they said, well, I would— I really am thinking about doing like light uppers and then like gray, um, for the bottom cabinets and I feel like people usually regret that more. Yeah. And so they did the accent at the island and it looks really, really good.

Yeah, my wife was really interested in doing like different uppers and lowers and then she was like, I think I would get tired.

You're gonna get tired of it. You will. So you're gonna be calling me in a year.

Yeah, which—

so go do it.

It's okay for me, but I mean, I don't feel like I've served my purpose to you and you're already wanting something different.

Well, do you feel like what you do, like there's— how much of it is design? I mean, like, are you contributing to that? Or are people coming to you like they already have the idea in their head? Like, I want this.

So I feel like people have a partial idea, like 50, 40%. And then I kind of talk them through it. And I think a big part of that is because they don't know how it has to be installed or, you know, exactly what that material is, you know.

Sure.

And so kind of when we talk about that, that's when they're like, oh, okay, well, I didn't think about this, you know, maybe we need to go this way. So what I do when I do the estimates is I'll go in and I'll pretty much give them an estimate for like the repairs. And then if they know what they want to put in there, then we'll include some of the materials. like the selections. But then if not, it's one of those things, okay, well, if you're okay with this price, then, um, then we can go and dive into the design aspect of it. And I'll do that for free for people who decide to use my remodeling services. So, um, but it is very

tedious to go through the design selection.

Yeah.

And so that's why it's like, okay, well, as long as we're on the same page with the pricing, for the remodeling services, then we can dive into, you know, exactly what you want to put in there. So, and I don't charge any extra for that.

That's cool. Yeah, I think that so often people's, uh, eyes are bigger than their pocketbooks. Yeah, it's like, okay, well, how about we don't do that because I wasn't planning on that much? Uh, what else could we do to make it look like that or feel like that and not so much?

And that's Are there things that come to mind when you, when you think of like what people want versus what they can afford? Like, what are some like outlandish things that you think people might usually want that most people can't afford? Anything comes to mind?

I mean, there's a lot of things. I mean, I think that—

I mean, like, for me, like, I always think about like hardwood floors. Like, I think a lot of people really want— think they want hardwood floors until they start butting it up against the price and the value of like vinyl vinyl or laminate or laminate.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I think, I think right now the problem— and this kind of goes back to what we talked about earlier— I think right now like the, the material cost has gone up a lot, right?

Yeah.

And so I think that sometimes people don't really expect the pricing on— and it's not the labor, it's, you know, adding the materials in— and they're like, well, I thought that it would just be cheaper because I'm just changing this or I'm replacing this or whatever, but I mean, I don't know if I feel like there's a lot of different—

I would assume, let's keep with kitchens. I would assume cabinets are one of those things.

So I was about to say, I think that sometimes people have a different expectation for like just a reface, which is you're not taking off all of the cabinets. You're just taking off like the fronts of the doors and then the fronts of the drawers. And that can be— I feel like sometimes people have a little bit of a sticker shock, and it's because the material cost of those, it's gone up so much.

And so we just did that. I mean, that's why— I mean, obviously he was painting, but we decided to go, uh, with shaker doors and drawer fronts.

And did you use a full overlay?

Uh, what?

I don't know what that means.

I don't either.

Were they the the doors meet together and there's no panel in the middle?

No, we— so ours, no, it'd be because right now they have the, uh, the stile in the middle, and so we didn't— we chose not to, to change that. Um, I would— I like them better whenever they don't have the stile there. Um, and the way our cabinets are built, we probably could have done that, but I would have had to trim every single one of them. Uh, we did decide to, to do underneath these— the stove, there's nothing, it's just a big cavity. And I was like, let's put some drawers in there. So we put it— so we kept the cabinets, but we're putting some drawers, pull-out drawers in there.

Um, drawers are great. Yeah, they're really good for storage.

Yeah. And so instead of, um, instead of redoing, like, not getting good drawer options because that style is in the middle, we're going to take that out and they're actually building in a stile on one side of the, the, uh, the cabinet door.

Okay.

So that still looks like it's there when it's closed. Um, cool.

I like that.

Yeah. So anyway, I'm— I, I think it's still gonna look good. Um, but I'll tell you, I mean, I mean, we have a pretty, pretty big kitchen and there's quite a bit of cabinetry.

Yeah, it looked like it from—

yeah. Yeah, there's quite a bit. Um, but just paint grade So we did poplar and MDF on the, on the doors and drawer fronts. It was like $2,500. Just, just, that's not painted, right? That's just to, to purchase the materials. And now we, we went ahead and went with like the Blum, uh, soft close on the drawers and the doors.

That does increase the price a little bit.

It does, it does. Um, but that being said, like, at this point we were like, look, we're taking them all off.

I'm already here.

You're already here.

Like, I'm invested.

Let's do this thing.

If we're gonna do this, let's do it. And but I mean, yeah, I would think that a lot of people are like, like, my— the cabinet doors are fine for $2,500. Like, that's— it's a huge upgrade price-wise, you know.

Minimum, really, because you're painting still and everything.

And that's one of the things I told my wife. I was like, okay, like, I'm fine paying the money if because we plan on living in this house forever at this point. So, um, I'm fine paying the money to get what we want, but like, are you gonna be happy with this in 10 years? Like, is the style gonna change? And I don't think shaker really changes.

No, no.

I think it's classic.

It'll be good for that for a while.

But anyway, things come and go, you know? And so we were kind of like, look, whatever we're gonna do, let's do it, let's do it right. Um, but $2,500?

Well, I feel like people have that price point in their mind for replacing an entire kitchen cabinet. Yeah. All, every everything with the cabinets, you know. And it's just pricing has changed so much. And so—

What would it cost her? I mean, I mean, if— because what my painter normally uses is like, he normally, he likes to use birch. Uh, but that, you know, definitely if you're trying to stain it or something like that, that would be great. But I mean, those doors were like almost $4,000 right now, which is the, the wood prices are, are so ridiculously high, right? And who knows if they're gonna come back down.

And if you can even get what you want.

Yeah, well, that was the other thing is they were like, well, we don't have it all in stock right now. And it's just, it is what it is. So I don't know. I don't know when that stuff's gonna come back down. Maybe it won't. Who knows? I mean, people are paying it right now. I did. Yeah.

And it's like, if you're, if you're producing that wood right now, why would you start charging less? Why would, why would you have any motivation? Even if you're, if your costs went down, why would you charge anything less?

I wouldn't.

If so, you can keep your margins up.

Yep. I mean, people are paying it.

If people are willing to pay it, they're going to continue to be willing to pay it.

I mean, if, I mean, if I can get cherry prices for birch, yeah, let's do it. Right?

Yeah.

Right? Let's do it.

He goes, yeah.

So anyway, I don't know. I feel like most remodelers, they like kitchens. They also like bathrooms. Bathrooms. So, uh, floors. Floors.

Okay.

General paint, you know. Yeah, I think those are the biggest things.

Yeah, I mean, do you do you see a lot of people like being like, "Hey, can you help me remodel my laundry room?" For example, does that happen very often? Um, that means no. That means no. Like she said, that means no.

It flooded. So yeah, take a crack at it.

I mean, it's not what most people. are showing off.

Usually the laundry room is like, well, I'm already here doing the kitchen or the bathroom, let's just throw the laundry room in.

Yeah, or if they, or if they really like want a mudroom area, like, right, be that.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, but we're not just gonna go in and change the flooring on the—

Yeah, exactly.

Actually, we like, when we did, like, you walked through my home earlier Which I love, by the way. And so like, we, we've redone pretty much every bit of flooring in that house except for 2 areas: my son's room.

The ones I didn't see.

And the laundry room.

The ones he hid from me.

So your laundry room, it's like a closet.

Yeah.

So it is your closet.

It sure is my closet.

So yeah, well, it's kind of cool though, next to the bedroom.

Yeah, no, that's super convenient.

Silver lining.

Okay.

But like, yeah, it, it like, it's just like this, like we were like, we were literally redoing all the floors in the entire house.

Is that on the level right before the kitchen?

No, it's, it's downstairs.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah, it's behind the staircase actually.

Yes, I remember now.

Um, and so there's—

I just love the description. Like people that don't know your house, they're like, wait a minute, what? What just happened? You gotta play down on the level with—

no, we need to talk about where the kitchen is right now though, so everybody can understand. It's on 2 and a half.

Is that like a second and a half floor?

Yeah, yeah.

You gotta play 4D chess to walk through my house.

Like a Harry Potter book.

That's a good description.

Harry Potter.

I only read the first one, so that's really—

I'm not very much else.

You got the moving staircase concept. We're good.

She's like, something got him going through a wall.

I don't Seems like this chamber of the truth tellers. Harry Potter in there.

There was like some halves in there or something, I think.

What room was the Goblet of Fire in?

Goblet of Fire.

I missed that chapter.

Yeah, that was right before they got the ring.

Book 5.

Yeah, they took the ring and then did the thing with Gandalf.

That was— see, now you're just gonna make people mad. Is it on the Enterprise? It's with Picard, right?

Lord of the Lord of the Flies, actually.

I also was not Lord of the Rings.

Way off topic.

Started with the kitchen.

It did.

Two and a half.

Yeah.

And as it does, it ended with the bathroom. I don't know where to go from there.

Which is one of the spaces we remodel a lot. I got your segue. It's good.

That's right.

It's a great segue. Oh, man. Wow. I feel like we should have other questions to ask right now, but I'm feeling like—

Y'all are just banking on me just talking.

What else is she going to say?

What else am I going to say? Apparently, it's that episode.

I feel like we went into this just like, okay. It's 10 o'clock. Let's just go.

Yeah.

So I actually do have a question about bathrooms because one of the trends I see, and this is actually something I don't know that I'd want this in my bathroom, but I see a lot of people asking about it. Saunas. Have you had anybody ask you to put a sauna in?

I have not.

No. So is that something that you feel like—

I have. It's like so many freestanding tubs.

Oh, really?

Well, that makes a lot of sense.

I see that a lot.

Like from a garden tub to a freestanding tub.

But I'm also seeing a lot of like, and I don't know, I don't know another phrase in order to describe this, but like couples showers.

Yeah.

You know, where like you got the 2 showers.

Yeah.

Double shower.

I call them twofers.

Twofers.

Yeah.

That's what I call twins.

That's when I'm going to start writing on my bid. A twofur shower.

Oh, you want one of them toofers? Yeah, a toofer.

Anyway, this is what it comes with.

You sound like a dentist from Kentucky.

A dentist, right?

Uh, those people need me to pull that toofer, right?

Oh, I get it, right?

That was the same guy that was accused from lying through his teeth. tooth.

He told the tooth.

Exactly, told the tooth.

It's a lot of dad jokes flying around right now.

Sorry, uh, that's what you get here on the Homeowner Show.

A lot of— we'll get scolded in the reviews.

Oh yeah, it's okay, my husband's probably taking notes.

That's funny. Yeah, well, okay, back to the twofer, uh, shower. Um, like, body jets are a big deal right now too. Like, are people still wanting those? Like, I feel like they were super trendy for a while. Everybody wanted these body jets. I think everybody—

It's kind of like the rain shower. They're like the— some—

That has always seemed horrible to me.

It's—

I hate—

I hate them. I hate them.

Yeah, you have one. I've always felt like you can't get out of the way.

Thank you.

How am I supposed to soap up It's like going to Schlitterbahn and you're just like stuck under the water drowning.

Well, so like, here's what I'll say.

You know you've been to them parks. Oh yes, park.

Yeah, I'm visualizing my last trip. That's my last trip.

The bucket's falling on you and you can't breathe.

No, it's like, how many gallons did God just dump on me?

But you asked for it, so you won't move.

You paid good money.

Could you just put the bucket down?

Your parents got you that season pass and you're gonna enjoy it.

Stand under that bucket and you're gonna like it. Daddy, will you join me?

No.

No, son.

Just gonna stand there.

I'm eating my Dippin' Dots.

Dippin' Dots. And here they are, they're like, can you just put the pipe right in the middle? Right in the middle of the show.

I hate those things. So that is— so you asked me like if I tell people, you know, like you should— that is, they're some things where I tell people like, do you really want that? The rain showerhead, I'm like, eh.

Probably not. But Craig, you love yours?

I do. Yeah, absolutely. So for a couple reasons.

But why?

So like, mine's— mine's— so I'm not a— I'm not a little person. It's difficult for me to like stand underneath a little tiny showerhead. So like, like, I can't— like, for the same reason you're talking about, like, I can't get away from the rain head and I can't get soaked up. Like, I can't get in the water.

Ah, and so like the wrong shower head then.

Well, that's why I got the rain one, because it's, it's like, it's 2 feet by 2 feet, like it's a square. And so I can stand underneath it and like actually enjoy my shower, and I can step away from it because we built it.

Yeah, your, your shower is large enough that you can get out of the shower.

Okay, that does make a big difference.

It makes a huge difference.

Yeah, where you can get out of the bucket.

That's right. Now the problem is then you're in the doorway and you don't have door on your shower.

I don't have a door in my shower.

Yeah, it's a valid question.

No, I made, I made a conscious decision not to put a door in my shower because like everyone I know that has like a glass door in their shower just complains about scum, scummy water, and like the calcification that happens on there, constantly having to clean it. Yeah, and it looks gross over time.

It's like, I Yeah, if you don't— especially if you don't keep up with it and clean it right, it gets nasty. And the seal at the bottom will just start to strip off. And then, yeah, no.

Yeah, so I just don't have that. And like, I've never had a huge issue.

Do you have a mudset? Is it tile around your drain?

Oh yeah, yeah, it's, uh, it's like riverbed rock. Yeah. Um, so I mean, like, it's, it's cool.

I approve.

Most people, most people walk into my shower and like, if you don't look close enough—

How many people are walking in your shower?

Like, people, people always like— people always want to come see it because our house is so weird.

Okay, go ahead.

Yeah, sorry, I couldn't resist. No, that's good.

We have parties. We were all thinking it.

We were all thinking it.

That's my role. Yeah, say what everybody else is thinking. That's what I do.

But they come in and they're like, well, how does—

They come in.

How does, how does the wood not rot? And it's like, that's not wood, it's tile.

You didn't take me to this part of the house.

So yeah, see?

Yeah, it's the wood.

Everybody comes in. I didn't see that part of the house.

Yeah, I didn't know where you were going there for a minute, not gonna lie, because it does—

it looks, it looks like, it looks like wood on the walls and, and then like riverbed rock on the floor. And people are like, well, how did— why did you do that? Like, it's just gonna rot. And I'm like, just get closer. It's not, it's not wood.

I planned this out, I promise.

All I know is that I'm not pulling tooths.

I feel like I For, for everyone's sanity, we should probably move on from talking about the— it's my fault.

It's because I'm wondering how this goes so long.

It's because of the thoughts in my head that I'm not saying that I'm really doing a great job of filtering right now about this shower conversation.

I'm doing my best to try and draw it out of you.

No. Well, it has to do with— it has to do with the wood that people are asking me about.

I'm over here like, what floor level is it on?

I'm just so concerned. right now about the wood in your shower. That's all I'm really concerned. So I've— I don't know, I think we need to talk about something else.

I'm happily married, Kevin.

I know.

It will never be a concern for you.

You've told me that many times, Greg.

Plus, I don't do chicks with beards.

Oh, that's true. Especially 5-foot.

As he strokes it. As he's like, 5-foot. Somebody thinks I'm pretty.

No, they don't. No one's getting fooled here. Nope, it is what it is. Get the mustache to you.

I could like pluck one of those to like tie around a tooth. Just gotta keep going back to that well.

It's deep, man. That's a deep well. Yeah, that's good.

Wow.

I've— have we even talked about remodeling in this episode? A little bit.

Yeah, good bits and pieces.

Just checking. Well, okay, uh, are, are there—

are you trying to bring it back around?

I mean, someone's got to.

We're like, we're like at an hour 10.

I mean, just I feel like it's time. Is it time?

Sure.

All right, here's, here's the deal. I don't think you're prepared for this. What?

The Final Four! The Final Four!

That's right. These are the final 4 questions we ask each and every one of our guests that you're obviously not prepared for, which makes it even better.

Not prepared, but totally on board.

You literally didn't tell me that this was part of it.

No, of course I didn't.

Okay.

But it also shows you've not listened to one of our episodes before. So here we go.

Anyway, I feel like, I feel like this is everyone's fault.

This is everyone's fault.

You walked into this.

Right. We literally told you to come on our show. You didn't listen to one. That's fine.

Um, it's fine.

All right, here we go.

You ready?

I, I guess.

All right, what is the must-have tool you won't leave your house without Oh, a tape measure. Ooh. For sure.

Okay.

For sure.

Okay, so ask her the question that you want to ask her right now.

Which one?

Tape measure question.

Like, do you use the one on your phone?

That's the one. I knew you were gonna ask it.

No, no. And most contractors, I would think, would not use that.

No, no, especially like doing remodeling. Obviously you need to be very, very precise. However, like, I'll take all the—

I'll take notes on my phone all day long, but I will go in there with Yeah, my— if like minimum, I'll go in with my phone, my car key, and my tape measure.

Have you, have you tried the tape measure on your phone?

No. No?

I have found it to be accurate within at least 1/16 of an inch.

I'm not gonna use it then. I mean, that's— I, I— it's extremely impressive.

Like, for, like, for accuracy, no, it's no good. But like, if I'm like just trying to get like rough square footage of the room, that's fair, you know?

Like, like, if you can get within a 16th of an inch. That's pretty stinking good.

Yeah, and like not just like over short distances, like long distances.

I don't know if I would feel like I've done what I need to do if I don't actually use—

right? No, it's like a visual aid.

Pull it out and—

Yeah, it's a visual aid.

Yeah, it's like my safety blanket.

Sure. Yeah, well, no, no, it's like—

I'm serious.

It's like, look, do you— have you— do you have like a tape Did you name your tape measure?

Is that— you have—

What's the next question?

She's not gonna tell us the name.

That's fine. She could tell us later.

Guess in the comments.

Yeah. Husband, can you tell us what the name is? All right, next question. What's a job you walked away from? Now, Let's qualify it for a minute because you're the remodeler. So we normally ask this about like, what's a project at your house you've walked away from? You had to call in someone to help because you didn't want to do it anymore. Um, but it could be anything, a job. That's kind of the open-ended question. So, uh, what's a job you walked away from?

Um, well, So I try really hard to accommodate everybody, but I feel like it's really important for everybody to be on the same page with things and to set the right expectations from the beginning. And so I feel like if somebody feels like the outcome is going to be different from maybe what is actually going to happen, then I don't think it's going to be a good working relationship. And so I'm very honest with people in that aspect. That's only happened one time. But I feel, I think that after that, she actually went through 4 other different contractors.