Rats and Repairs: Tackling Pest Control and Home Maintenance

This is episode number 313 of The Homeowner Show. Whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is Greg Williams.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show. We are so glad that you could join us for another live episode, not in the studio.

We are not in the studio. We like this setup.

Yeah, this is like, you know, Studio B.

Yeah, it just—

The chairs are comfier.

The chairs are way comfier. I feel more like, you know, a lot of these guys that are out there doing podcasts, like on a full-time basis, you know, they're doing daily podcasts, all that kind of stuff. They're sitting around on couches because they do this.

It's comfy.

It's comfy.

Or their chairs are really expensive.

Well, that's true.

So anyway, if you watched last episode, you saw that we're kind of in a new space. We had to evacuate Studio A. So we're trying some new stuff out. We're testing some new equipment.

Yeah.

Which is kind of exciting. So give us some feedback. Let us know what it sounds like. If you like it, if you don't like it, we wanna know. We wanna constantly improve the show. But some of this equipment that we're testing right now is some stuff that gives us a little more versatility out in the field because you guys know that we like to go do a lot of remote shows. We like to be on location, um, with, uh, with, with businesses, with networking events and different things like that. Uh, which by the way, like if you ever want Kevin and I to come to your event, we, you know, reach out. Um, if it works out that it's something that, you know, works for us, we're interested in, we'd love to come.

Yeah, absolutely.

We love doing that kind of stuff. Also, I want to know if people can hear the crickets. In the background.

Yes.

Those are not just Kevin's bad jokes. My, my kids are actually raising crickets to feed their bearded dragons.

Okay.

And they're in the room that we're recording and they're being rather chatty.

Yeah. Right now they're acting as if it's nighttime.

Yeah. So I'd like to know if you guys can, can hear that as well. But we're actually here to talk about one of my favorite subjects.

Well, we are. But before we do that, We need to talk about our sponsors.

Absolutely.

And, uh, first one we're going to talk about is Lone Star Appliance Repair.

I just had them out to the house.

Did you really?

Absolutely.

Why?

Um, well, actually, in this room, we— there's a stove over here, right? And it— the oven's busted.

Oh no.

Um, and so we, we had one of the Lone Star techs come out and give it the once-over.

Okay.

And I got an interesting bit of feedback.

Okay.

This particular stove has been discontinued, as are all the parts on this stove.

Oh, come on.

And, and so there's no way to repair it.

Nothing to do.

You know, and here's the thing is he could have blown a lot of smoke up my rear end and tell me like, oh, we'll figure it out. And he was like, just, he was like, dude, I'm so sorry. Yeah, there's no way to fix this. I can't— there's nothing I can do about it. There's no parts available. And he even went to the trouble of reaching out to other appliance repair companies and seeing if they might have that part.

Oh, some spare parts laying around.

Laying around. And he couldn't, couldn't find it. And he was like, he's like, dude, I'm sorry.

Yeah.

And it was this— and it was a similar thing with the wine fridge that I told everybody about. Apparently some weekend Charlie had gone to work on it and put in some parts that would have cost me like $500 to repair something that's not even worth that anymore.

Right.

And he was like, dude, I wouldn't even fix this.

Yeah.

And like, here's the thing. That's the kind of feedback you want from an honest company.

That's it.

It's going to tell you like, look, I don't think that this is worth repairing.

Yeah. I mean, and, and You know, you could look at that and go, ah, if I would've just gone out and bought something, I wouldn't have had to spend— it wasn't that much money.

No.

And, but, but to get really good feedback like that.

Yeah.

That's, that's important.

And an education.

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, one of the things we've learned from, you know, hanging around with these guys, you know, sponsors for a long time at this point, is that there are better brands than others out there. And, you know, sometimes—

Learning what those brands are.

Do what?

Learning what those brands are. Samsung.

LG. And, and it's not across the board. Um, you know, they've got better appliances than others depending on the brand. But either way, uh, these guys are good people. And honestly, more than anything else, I— that's what I want, right? I want good people coming to my house, taking care of my stuff. And we use them. That— I mean, we We tell you guys, like, honest things about products that we've used, right? Some of them are better than others. We try to give you our honest opinion. We use these people. If we didn't use them, we would not be able to support them.

So not at all.

You know, give them a call. Their number is 936-647-2364. And our next sponsor, True Texas Solar. True Texas Solar and Roofing.

And Roofing.

And these guys are just really, really good people. In fact, Craig, you spent some time.

Yeah, I just got to hang out with them at the, uh, the Home and Garden Show that we just did, right, that I completely botched. Um, but we had fun hanging out with them at their booth. We got to meet a lot of their peers, a lot of the people in, in businesses around them, and it was really cool to see how many people actually respect them. Yeah. And, and look up to them. And in fact, Josh was doing— Josh, Josh Juarez, the, the CEO of, uh, True Texas Solar and Roofing, was, was doing a presentation there that a lot of people were able to attend and, and learn a lot.

Yeah.

And I think that's really the big value to these home and garden shows is getting to go to some of those presentations and hear from experts and hear from trusted members of the community that are actually gonna give you the real skinny as to what's happening in the industry. And, and like, here's, here's the thing. In, in solar and in roofing, things are a-changing.

Oh, they are.

You know, we don't know how long the tax incentives are going to last on solar. Those could get taken away. That may be a victim of Doge, who knows. But we also know that particularly here in Texas, that the roofing industry is going to change drastically once the insurance companies start changing homeowners policies, which they've already said that they're doing. We know it's coming.

Yeah.

It's no longer going to be considered part of your homeowner's policy. If you get it at all, it's going to be a separate policy. And, and, and roofing is just going to be a whole different ballgame here in Texas.

Yeah. You know, I'm not looking forward to it. And but here's the thing, like, getting ahead of it, knowing a good solid company to talk to.

Yeah.

And that, that's what True Texas Solar and Roofing are. They're good solid people. Josh didn't start this company because he wanted to get rich. He started this company because he cared about the industry. He cared about the people that he was serving. And he's, he's shown that in so many different ways by the people that he employs, by some of the hard decisions he's had to make along the way about how to run his business. Yeah, I would, I would trust him in my house any day. And if you're curious, give him a call. It's really easy to get ahold of them. You can get them at 936-286-8325. Yep. Yep. All right. But we have

some really cool stuff to talk about today.

Well, I don't know how cool it is. It's— I think it's, I think it's one of the things that most people dread when they start talking about their homes. Um, but like, if— because no one wants to admit that their house is infested with rats.

Sure.

Um, but it does happen. It happens quite a bit. And I'll also add into that category squirrels, which I think are rats.

Oh yeah, tree rats.

At least the, the way my dad always put it is squirrels are just rats with better PR. Um, people think they're cute for some reason, but like, they just have bushy tails. And they're way more destructive.

Yeah.

But rats are more of a disease vector. And so that's why they're just gross. Yeah, they are gross animals. I mean, just to be honest, they're nasty. Which is part of why we're actually in here tonight is we had a rat die in the studio.

Disgusting.

That I killed. Thank goodness.

Yeah. But you could have done it somewhere else.

Oh, I could have done it somewhere else. And if we use the studio on a more regular basis, we probably would have found him before he really started to stink.

Yeah.

But that's what happened. Is it? it really kind of reeks in the studio right now. And we're like, let's— this is a good opportunity to test out some new gear.

I think, I think the, uh, the term is ripe. Ripe.

Yeah, he was, he was quite ripe.

It seemed ripe in there.

So, and like, we didn't have like a rat infestation. There just happened to be one that—

I think he was, I think he was a daddy. I think he was a daddy rat.

Oh yeah, no, I'm pretty sure he was.

He was maybe a granddaddy rat. The dude The dude had some chub on him.

He was— he had some girth.

Yeah.

Um, but this is, you know, for those of you who've been watching the show long enough, you guys know that I work in pest control. This is something that we deal with on small scales and on big scales all the time.

Yeah.

And sometimes it's like a combination of mice and rats. And I want to— I wanted to talk to everybody a little bit about what's happening in the legal side of rat control. And then like things that you can do practically in your home to help deal with these kinds of things. And honestly, at the end of the day, Steve, if you're out there, I'm sorry. At the, at the end of the day, traditional methods still work.

Oh, that's good to know.

They can, they can be very effective. They just can't be overused.

Okay.

Um, and so like when you're dealing with a massive infestation, traditional methods can be very frustrating because rats are smart.

Yeah.

And not only are they smart, but they're collectively smart.

Okay.

They can actually teach each other.

I hate that. You know, um, I don't like that.

And, and, and, and teach each other is, is a weird way of saying it, but it's actually very true.

Okay.

That— so here's something that we know just from testing. If you were using a poison on a rat, and this is something I find fascinating, is a rat can actually take a significant dose of a poison, but not significant enough to kill it.

Okay.

If that rat takes a significant dose that it makes it feel ill, The offspring of that rat will no longer eat that bait.

Wow.

It will teach those offspring to avoid that because they learned that it made them sick.

Interesting.

And so it— if you're somebody like me and you're going into a situation and you're continuing to use the same baits over and over and over and over again and you're not seeing any results, it's probably because you had a rat, either a mother or a father, that got sick, didn't die, and then taught its offspring what not to eat.

Interesting.

And so this, this happens a lot. And so we— because we end up coming behind a lot of other companies, which is tough, by the way, to come in behind them and then try and fix what they didn't solve.

Sure.

And so when typically when we come in, we're dealing with a much smarter rat.

Okay.

At that point, or mouse. Rats are a little smarter than mice, but— and mice can be troublesome because they can reproduce a lot quicker.

Okay.

Um, like significantly quicker than rats.

Okay.

Um, uh, but rats are just smarter. Um, and I think, you know, I mean, we've, we've shown that through tests and things like that, but like, if you've ever had to deal with them, you just know that they're smart.

Yeah.

Um, so, so that, that's an issue. But traditionally, traditional means like snap traps are very effective.

Oh yeah.

If, if, and that's a big if, if you put them out properly.

Okay.

Um, one of the big—

Because they, you have to understand that, and I'm, I'm saying something that I only know because of experience.

Right.

And you may tell me, Kevin, that's actually not true. And I'm fine with that, but you have to understand how rats move.

Yes.

And rats don't just go across the room.

Never.

Rarely.

I should say rarely.

If you think, oh, you know what, I'm going to put a trap out in the middle of the room because they're going to, they're going to see that bait or smell that bait and they're going to go over to that, they probably won't.

No, it's— yeah, no, you need to know how they move.

Yeah.

And typically most, most rodents don't have good vision. And so what they end up doing is they use the edge of walls as guides to get them around. And so they're typically moving around the edge.

Right.

Um, but even then, I still— people will— I— even if people know that, I still see them misplacing traps.

Okay.

Traps typically need to be perpendicular up against a wall.

Yeah.

Um, and it's also okay if it doesn't work immediately.

Uh-huh.

Um, because if you're like me, you're walking in behind somebody that has failed.

Yeah.

Um, again, they're smart and they've kind of figured out what's going on, and so they, they learn to know what traps do.

Okay.

Um, and, and you also have like a caste system if, if a rat colony gets big enough. And if you've been doing this long enough, what you'll see is a lot like the, you know, the bigger rats, you know, they'll be the alpha rats.

Okay.

And when they see a trap, what they'll actually do, You can watch them. They'll push a younger rat into a trap.

Really?

Yeah, just to get, just to get it over with.

Wow.

So that then they can move along with, you know, without having to worry about any of them going off.

I love it.

You know, but like those, those are the ones that you end up having to like hunt. Like it becomes, and like, I mean, when I say hunt, I mean hunt.

Interesting.

You know, you're not, there's baits aren't gonna work on them. Traps aren't gonna work on them. You gotta come, you gotta be creative.

Interesting.

I mean, sometimes that's a pellet gun. I mean, you gotta do what you gotta do. You gotta do what you gotta do.

So, you're talking about snap traps. There are multiple different kinds of snap traps too. Um, and, you know, they've got the traditional ones that are in Tom and Jerry movies, right? And then they got the, like, the, the— they're called Black Cats, right? And they got like teeth on them.

Well, there's several different brands that have those like that.

Yeah. Yeah, they're like these, these black, like, teeth.

Yes. And they're popular, not be— I mean, not because they, like, do a better job than—

They're easy to set.

They're easy to reset. That's the big thing about them.

You can literally just step on them and they set themselves.

Yes.

So that's really nice.

Yeah. And so there are those, and then we are, we are about to start having smart traps.

Oh, interesting.

Where part of the problem with snap traps is when you're a pest control person is having to go back and reset them for your client. Yeah, that takes time. And just, you know, guessing like, I'm going to go on Tuesday, right, and see if any of them have gone off.

And you have no idea if they have.

No idea.

Yeah.

Smart traps are coming along and they're going to be able to actually work through a hub And, and tell you like, oh, trap 2, 7, and 10 actually went off. And so you need to go—

At this time.

You need to go collect some bodies and then reset.

Interesting.

You know, so that, that's coming. They don't have it. It's not widespread yet, but they've already said like, look, this is coming.

Okay.

Um, and, and part of that is, you know, you don't want a rat carcass sitting there for days on end because it's going to start to stink.

Well, then we have the problem that we have right now, right?

And we have to You end up in Studio B.

We have to move out.

Right.

Now, okay, before we move on, we've also got other— like, I've got a rat trap that is electric that will theoretically, like, like, stun them and, like, electrocute them, theoretically.

Right.

Now, I don't know how well it works because I've not really had to use it that often, right? I assume that it does if they will walk into it, but that's the problem.

Getting them to walk into it.

Getting them to walk into it.

Right.

Because, so these bait stations, they will walk into those?

Yes.

Okay, what's the difference?

Um, part of it is a bait station, you know, the baits that you're using, them are gonna be smelling good to them.

Okay.

Um, they're gonna be tight quarters enough where they feel safe walking into, they're dark.

Okay.

Um, some of these traps that do like what you're talking about, the problem, some of the problems that you run into with some of those is once you kill something in them, that body doesn't go away.

Right.

And so it sort of clogs the system a little bit.

Yeah.

The difference between that and like a bait station is a rat or a mouse can come up in that bait station, get a meal, and then move on.

Yeah.

And so there's no sign of danger to any other rats or mice coming into that thing.

Yeah, right.

Whereas one of those traps that's like electric or something like that, One, it can clog up the entrance. 2, like, if they walk up on a dead rat, they're— it could potentially spook them. I mean, it may not. They, they have some other ones that we've used in the past that are CO2 charged. Oh, um, I like that. Very effective.

Yeah.

Um, and what's cool about them is you can mount them on a wall, and what it is is when they stick their head Up in it, there's a trigger in it. And there's like, you usually put like chocolate or peanut butter or something up in it. And when their nose sets off the trigger, there's a pin that comes through and breaks their neck.

Yeah.

And then they drop. Okay. Away from it.

Yeah.

And so like, you can get— I think with those, if I remember right, you can get up to like somewhere between 20 and 40 kills.

Okay.

With one CO2 cartridge. And so that's really all you have to do is change out the CO2 cartridge.

So what about—

But they're, but they're very expensive.

Okay, yeah.

They're very expensive traps.

Glue traps.

Glue traps.

Because a lot of people like those too because they're less traumatic.

They're less traumatic, but I find them to be less humane.

That's what's funny is because they sit— so many people I've, I've heard like them. They're like, Oh, it's, it's so good because you're not like actually like, you know, snapping their neck, for example. And I'm like, that would be a whole lot better than like starving to death. They starve to death.

Yeah.

Right.

Or, you know, dying of lack of water.

Right.

Or, I mean, like, or what most people who use glue boards that actually understand animal life will fold it over and just stomp them. Ah, you know? And so like you're having the trauma of like actually having to stomp a rat or a mouse. And watching that blood squirt all over the place.

That's—

yeah, it's— I mean, I mean, because at that point, that's the humane thing to do. Because you don't know how long they've been stuck to that thing. Right. They're sitting there blinking at you, stuck to the board.

Right.

You know, I'm not a big fan of them.

Yeah.

I've never found them to be effective in getting things under control. Okay. That's probably not a good way to put that. I've never found them to be better than the other means that we have to get things under control.

Okay, makes sense.

Um, so, and, and not only that, you'll catch other things on it.

Yeah.

Um, you know, I've, I've actually found, because they make these really big glue boards, I mean massive ones, and if you're not checking them on a regular basis and you have a real problem, what I found is mice and rats will get on those glue boards and then snakes will get stuck on them.

Oh.

Trying to get to the mice and the rats.

That's interesting.

Uh, you know, and then you've got like a whole other thing going on.

Yeah.

Um, so yeah, it's, it, it's— I'm not a big fan of them.

Makes sense.

Can you catch stuff on them? Absolutely. Glue boards are actually really great for identification of like bugs. Oh, you know, you can kind of put one down to see like what's moving through the kitchen, what's— you know, just, just to get an idea. Um, they're really good for that. But like, can you catch mice and rats on them? You can. Like, it doesn't really seem Nice.

Like, you don't really care about being too nice, but at the same time, it's like, why would you make them suffer more than they have to?

Right. Yeah, right. So, and like, they're peanut butter scented and all this kind of stuff.

I know.

I just, I'm just, I just don't like them.

Yeah.

Are they necessary? Yeah, in some instances they're necessary.

Sure.

But they're not my go-to.

Yeah.

But what I think a lot of people need to understand, and this is the big thing I want people to, to kind of wrap their brains around, is things are going to be changing with FIFRA.

I don't even know what FIFRA is.

So FIFRA is the— let me make sure I say this right— it's the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act.

Okay.

So it is the act, um, that manages the classification and the usage of pesticides, rodenticides, and fungicides in the United States through the EPA.

Okay.

So this is basically the EPA's regulations, overarching regulations on all these things.

Okay. It's— this is stuff that you can buy residentially or commercially? Yes.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what they have said is they're going to be cracking down hard on rodenticides.

Okay.

Meaning, um, they're no longer going to be available to the public to buy.

At all?

At all.

Like, this is bait or this is like traps?

Baits.

Okay, baits.

Yeah, which is one of our most effective methods in dealing with rodents.

Yeah.

The problem is they have been leaching out into other systems because of misuse.

Ah.

And what—

water—

the only way that they can manage this— no, water's, water's really not, not one of the big ones. Did I just move everything?

You did.

Is it okay?

Yeah, we're good.

Okay. Um, water is not one of the big ones. Um, the, the problem is people are misusing them.

Okay.

People, unlicensed people are misusing them, and the only way that they can manage that and control that is to just take it away.

Sure.

Because people with licenses, they can inspect, right? They can require things of them in order to have them and use them.

They can take away licenses. They can—

Right. They can fine them, right? They can require certain reporting measures and things like that, things that they cannot require of the public, right? Um, and that may not sound all that bad But here's what I foresee happening on the downstream side of things is what this means is you're no longer going to be able to buy things like Tomcat in Home Depot and Lowe's.

Yeah.

Um, and, and so what does that mean for homeowners? What that means is you're basically going to get stuck with Victor Snap Traps, uh, or like whatever, or glue boards, right? You're going to get left with a very slim choice of DIY options, right? And the big villain in all of this that I think a lot of people didn't see coming are the online stores. These are the people that they're going after. They're going after the online distributors like Amazon and Do-It-Yourself Pest Control. And I'm not naming them to tell people like that these companies are bad. I'm naming them because this is where people go to, to buy these things right now, right?

Right.

And what the EPA is gonna do is through the— through FIFRA, make it illegal for them to sell to the public.

Wow.

And because that's where they've seen the biggest uptick in sales. And so they— then they're gonna necessarily have to take it away from Walmart. They're gonna have to take it away from Lowe's, Ace, Home Depot. All these companies are no longer gonna be able to sell those products. And what a lot of people don't understand about this is it's going to jack the prices up of— for hiring, yeah, pest control companies to come in and deal with the rodents, because these companies are no longer going to be able to keep their prices low in producing so much of it to sell to the public. Yeah, they're not going to be able to make as much of it

because there's not going to be as many buyers.

The demand's gonna be different.

The demand's going to be low, which means the cost of those products is going to go up, man, which means that then those companies like ours are going to have to pass those costs on to the end consumer, which I think is actually going to 4x, potentially 8x the cost of rodent control.

Oh my goodness. Now that's a lot. It's a lot.

So, and rodent control is not cheap as it is.

Sure. So that brings me to a great question. What kind of shelf life does this stuff have?

Not— it's not a long shelf life.

Not enough?

No, not at all. No. So like, it's not like you can stock up, right?

That's what I was wondering.

And hope for the best. No, it does not have a long shelf life. Um, you know, but like, people, people have been playing that game for a long time. There's a lot of banned pesticides that I still find in people's garages.

Oh, I'm sure that's true.

Um, you know, and—

'Cause one day—

And EPA, every time I find them, I tell them, you need to reach out to your local authorities and find the proper disposal method for these things because you're no longer allowed to have these things. I'm not allowed to have those things.

Yeah.

You know, but people still try and keep 'em.

Well, because they don't know. They don't know what they don't know.

Sure.

They got it at some point.

They don't know. There are people that do know and do it anyway.

Well, yeah.

Um, but I would—

I mean, how many people do you know who they got something at some point because they needed a solution, they found this thing, and they're like, well, if I ever need a solution again, I'll have it, right? And they've just still got it. It's the same people that I've seen where they've inherited it. Oh my goodness.

From like their dad or whatever. Yeah, that old grandpappy had this in his garage and he never used all of it and swore by it. And, you know, yeah. So I still use it and I'm like, oh, that's—

Yeah, right. But I mean, it's no different. I mean, it's, it's similar to these people that have paint for 20 years.

Yes.

And they're like, oh, we'll use it someday. Well, obviously you won't, right? Number one. And obviously number two, after you open it up, you really won't.

You really won't.

It won't be good anymore.

Yeah, no, it hadn't been good for a while.

No.

So it's just something I want everybody to be aware of. Like, it's something that's coming down the pipeline. And I— what they're saying is look to 2027 for these changes to be fully implemented. It could happen quicker than that.

Yeah.

It really depends on a lot of the reports that they're getting back, how much, you know, how far and reaching some of the contamination is into the public. I'll give you a good example. I see this quite often, is you'll go to like a Lowe's and Home Depot and you'll get like a little mouse bait station.

Okay.

Right? And it's a black plastic little box and inside is a block of poison.

Right.

Well, I'll show up at people's homes sometimes and I'll see the container that they bought that in. And then I'll see the little black box that they've then taken, like either some tin snips or a pocket knife, whatever it is, to crack open that box and then just take that bait cube and throw it in their garage.

No.

Or throw it underneath their deck or whatever it is. There's a reason that those things are secured in those boxes.

You shouldn't be touching them.

You shouldn't be.

Yeah.

For one, you shouldn't be touching them. 2, they're in those boxes to keep it from getting contaminated into other organisms like your neighbor's cat, like your dog, like your kid. Because look, I mean, most of them smell like yumminess, right? When they're fresh.

Yeah.

You know, and are bright colored.

Yeah. And if you think your child won't pick that up and put it in their mouth, they absolutely will. They do. Yeah. I mean, how often do you hear it?

But like that, I can't, I can't tell you the number of times that I've found it like that.

Yeah.

And you can't do that.

Right.

It's just not safe for anybody involved.

No.

You know, and you're thinking like, oh, I'm doing this so that the rats can get to it easier. I'm doing this because— I don't know why you're doing it. You're not following the instructions on the box. You just think that you're smarter than everybody else. And you're not. And you're not.

No.

And so, you know, what happens when the children misbehave? Well, you take their toys away.

It's what happened.

And, and that's, and that's, that's ultimately what we're dealing with. And, and so like now what makes this super frustrating is it's going to cause a lot of other downstream things because, you know, if you're a, a commercial business and then all of a sudden you have a rat infestation for whatever reason. Say you're a food handling service, say you're a shipping company, whatever it is, all of a sudden rats move in.

Yeah.

You know, and it could be because you're not doing good things to, to keep the building clean, whatever it is. Well, that pest control company that then comes in after these laws go into effect are having to charge you 4 times, 8 times more than they would in the past. Well, commercial jobs aren't cheap because there's a lot of— there's a lot more regulations on the operator, on, on the licensed person to fulfill that job.

Right.

Well, what do you think that company is going to do when they're now paying thousands more than they're traditionally used to to get general control.

They're gonna jack their prices.

They're gonna pass that on to their end consumer.

That's all they can do.

It's all they— yeah, you're absolutely right. That's all they can do. And so, you know, this is, this is one of those things that I think a lot of people just don't understand is like when we do these things, while they can be good laws, while they can be good regulations, ultimately end up getting passed on to you the consumer, which by the way, you the consumer is typically the villain in the story.

Oh yeah.

That caused these issues in the first place because You didn't read the instructions. You didn't follow, you know, the laws and the regulations. And then you caused, you know, Aunt Sarah's cat to get violently ill and die.

Right. So, and oh, by the way, then you get into the problem of now you're paying more taxes on it. Like all, like all the— it is just like this big mess.

Yep.

And I, you know, I, I think that one of the, one of the things that, that I learned, uh, in, in the very first home that I ever owned— this is before I knew you at all— uh, we, we wound up having some rats, and it was on a pier and beam home. Pier and beam home. And on pier and beam homes, they still have to have ventilation in the, uh, underneath the subfloor. Yeah, subfloor. So there's you know, there's all these vents all the way around the, the foundation. And they— rats get in there all the time.

Oh, yeah.

So, you know, I literally had to go around with like mesh screen. And, you know, put mesh screen up so they couldn't get in. And there were other things, you fill up all the holes and all these sorts of things. There are things that you can do as a homeowner or business owner, to prevent rats from getting in your home. And oh, by the way, clean your house.

That's the big one.

You know?

That really is the big one. Um, you know, I walked into a home the other day and she was like, I think I've— I think a rat died in the house. I started walking through the house and I was like, there's no way I'm gonna find this rat. Like, it was a hoarder house.

Ugh.

And like, I walked in the attic and thankfully the rat was just dead there at the top of the stairs.

You got lucky.

I got really lucky.

Yeah.

But I told her, I was like, that's probably not the only dead rat. You know, I found this one, but I can almost promise you there's other ones up there that we just haven't found yet.

Yeah.

And so, but yeah, you're absolutely right. There are things that you can do, you know, and there are exclusions that you can do to your home to help with some of those things. But what most people need to understand is with rats and mice, is if they can get their nose through the hole, they can typically get their entire body through that hole.

That's all they need.

And that seems impossible, but trust me, there's lots of YouTube videos online where you can go watch them squeeze their giant fat bodies through a tiny hole and they just make it happen.

Yep.

Um, their bodies are just built that way.

Yep.

Um, and so exclusion is not always my go-to, um, but a, a good combination of baits and traps can be in a variety of foods, uh, can be. Um, but like, you're absolutely right when you say like just general cleanliness is your best friend. You know, keeping dried foods like dog foods and grains and, and cereals. Um, one of the biggest culprits is bird food, man. Rats will get into bird food like nobody's business.

Yeah, I bet.

And, and you, you're just none the wiser.

Yep.

Um, because you just got that open bag of bird food in your garage and like, I don't understand why I see all this rat crap everywhere. And it's like, no, you've been feed them.

Yeah, if you, if you look around to the side, maybe in the back a little bit, there's a big hole in that bag.

Yeah.

And that's why one of the best things you can do whenever it comes to dog food or birdseed or anything like that, put them in a plastic container.

Yep.

That's the best thing you can do.

Yeah.

Not that rats can't get into those.

They can, but like, it's more obvious when they start trying to because they chew around the edges.

Right.

Um, dude, one time I actually, I was in a community clubhouse And they were telling us that they had a rodent problem. We started opening the cabinets and they had like this giant, like Sam's Club jug of barbecue sauce.

Oh.

That was like half empty. And I was going through the cabinet trying to find it, and I started seeing like chew marks around the edge of the barbecue sauce. And I pulled it out. And when I pulled it out, the back of the container had been completely eaten out.

Oh my goodness.

And a rat had fallen in the barbecue sauce and drowned. Oh, and like, he didn't stink. He was just sort of like preserved, preserved in the—

petrified in the barbecue, barbecue fire.

And I was like, oh, that's just the most disgusting thing.

Yes, disgusting. Well, bottom line, do what you need to do now. If you think you got a rat problem, you got a rat problem.

Here's, here's the other thing I want, I want people to know, because I've had clients that have done this. If you're concerned about rodents in your house, and you have a company that jumps to, hey, we need to do all of this exclusion work, we'll make your house airtight.

Yeah.

Most of the time when I see that, people are spending like $10,000, $20,000.

Oh, yeah.

To seal their house up. You don't need to do that. Yeah, you really don't.

Yeah.

For the most part. I mean, are there exceptions to that? 100%.

Sure.

But for the most part, do you need to do that? No.

Why?

Because your house doesn't need to be airtight. It shouldn't be airtight. Yeah.

And, and one of the things I learned also is that these baits are designed to, to make them thirsty.

And no, that's— that— okay, that's, that's not true.

Okay.

Um, that used to be the case.

Okay.

And, and all— and are some of those still around? Yes, some of those are still around.

Okay.

Most of them are not like that anymore.

Okay.

Um, I, and I, I have people say that to me every single day, and I know it. And the only reason I try and correct people about it is because it's just a different formulation of the baits. Most of the, the really, really good baits today's are anticoagulants.

Oh, okay.

Which are blood thinners.

Sure.

And what they do is they make the rats feel short of breath and claustrophobic.

Okay.

And we like those because it makes their natural biological response to claustrophobia and shortness of breath is to go outside.

Yeah, it's a similar thing really.

It is a similar thing. The thirsty one, part of the reason they stopped using ones that made them feel thirsty, and again, some of those are still around, Is you, you have things like drain pans in attics.

Mm-hmm.

And so—

They can still find the water.

They can, or they'll chew through a PVC pipe to find water.

Yeah.

Um, so there's that going on, but there's also many different formulations of baits that— and some of them are quick kill, some of them take longer. Um, and so again, that's why it's good to have a professional come in and see what's going to work best. Because, you know, if you're dealing with like a barn, like a quick kill is going to be great.

Oh yeah.

You know, but if you're, if you're dealing with a house, you want something that might take a little bit longer.

Yeah.

And so they have a chance to go outside and die.

Right.

So I mean, it's strategy.

Sure.

But like the thirsty one. Yeah, there are still some that do that. They're just not as prevalent.

Yeah.

We have better stuff now.

No, that's, that's good to know.

Yeah.

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That's why you listen to the show.

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Yeah.

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