Personal Organization with Amy Honeycutt

This is episode number 196 of The Homeowner Show. Whether you DIY or lookin' to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is Craig Williams.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show. We're so glad that you could join us for another live episode here in The Homeowner Show studios. How you doing, Kev?

I'm pretty good. I got really growly on that though. I got really into it on that one.

A little grrr in the intro.

That was more than normal.

I like it. You got to do it every week now though.

Every week?

Every week.

I don't know if I can get it there every week.

Make it happen, Kevin. Yeah, I don't know.

Somebody— is that me?

Yeah, I think it's— I think this one over here.

We got a little delay, a little extra action going on.

That's fine.

Studio, totally fine.

If it was the first time.

It would not.

It's part— it's a show tradition.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, at this point it happens so often where we forget to mute something. It's like, oh man, come on now.

What's— there was no bumpity bumps.

There wasn't. That's, that's actually a step up for us.

That's right.

196.

We finally figured it out.

Well, how you doing, man?

I'm doing good. I, uh, I got to shave off my ridiculous excuse for a beard.

Oh.

Yesterday.

I don't, I don't guess I saw it. Was it, was it a week's worth?

Yeah, pretty much.

After being on vacation, you're like, I'm not shaving.

It was my mountain beard.

Okay.

Yeah.

And your wife now will kiss you again, I assume.

We'll see.

We'll see.

There's a grace period.

If anybody hates beards, she's the one.

She's the one.

Yeah, which is fine.

She's the one for me.

Yeah, that's right.

'Cause I can't grow one.

No, that's actually the reason that— she's the only reason I grow a beard.

Just to piss her off.

Just to piss her off. I think it works.

It does.

It does, yeah. At least that's— I think that's why she hates me. I'm not real sure, but I think that's—

She doesn't hate you.

Okay.

There's a difference between hate and despise.

Okay. I'm riding the line. Riding the line here. So what's going on with you, man?

Dude, we just, we just got back from like a killer— like, well, so here's the thing. I love going on vacation. Yeah, but it really seems like the world went to hell while I was gone.

Well, gas prices went up again.

I mean, just like Matthew McConaughey is trying to tell us what to do with guns.

Yeah, well, that's weird, you know. Um, what—

I mean, I was having to deal with unruly tenants at an apartment.

That was That was weird.

I can't even talk about it.

Is it over?

No, I have to go wrap that up tomorrow. I was sending you the stream of consciousness from this psycho throughout the week.

So I'll tell you, if I'm being real honest, I was both pitying you and also laughing.

That's fair.

Because it was a bit ridiculous. My favorite was the one that I didn't get, but that you read to me. That was my favorite. But anyway, yeah, that was ridiculous.

I mean, like, we probably need to do the show at least 2 more years before I can share the contents of that.

I agree.

Of that stream of just filth. But anyway, so we had a fantastic trip to Arkansas.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I lived there for 10 years, and I'll tell you this, as a Texan, We always believe that, like, for example, Arkansas is the armpit of Texas.

Yeah.

And Oklahoma sucks. That's the only reason it's still connected to Texas. And I mean, right? I mean, we have these reasons why these other states suck, but I'll tell you what, like, I lived there for 10 years. I absolutely love Arkansas. It is a beautiful state. It's absolutely gorgeous.

Just just for reference. I mean, like, right now it's, you know, it's June.

Yeah.

Right. And today it was creeping up like, like the heat index was like 108.

Yep.

Or something like—

it was, it was ridiculous.

It was gross outside today.

Yep.

When I was in Arkansas, when the temperatures were about the same as they are right now last week, at night, it was like 58 degrees.

That is absolutely unusual. So here, no, here, let me, let me back up for a second. It typically starts in June and ends in September in Arkansas. Here in Houston, it starts in May and ends in November.

Right.

So that's really the big difference. Arkansas, their summers are awful. and they're hot and they're humid just like it is here.

Sure.

They last a lot less time. That's really great. But if, if it was 58 at night in the beginning of June—

Now, to be, to be fair, we, we were up pretty high.

Yeah. Y'all were, y'all were in like Gers Ferry area. So y'all were in some mountainous areas.

Yeah.

Mountain View and, and that kind of thing.

Um, which by the way, if you've never been to Mountain View, it's like the folk music capital of the United States.

It is unique.

It's cool, man. Like, if you're, if you're into music at all, I mean, like, the street musicians are out on Friday and Saturday nights.

Were y'all there? Did y'all go?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, because y'all did it last time, right?

My daughter got to sit in on one of the rounds.

Oh, yeah.

In the park.

They typically let people if you want to.

Oh, yeah. If you— if— well, and like, she didn't have anything with her, but like, somebody just handed her a guitar and it's like, hey, we hear you singing, can you play?

She's like, yeah, yeah, of course I can.

So she jumped right in.

I can't believe anyone heard your daughter singing.

How is that possible?

We hear her on the show sometimes.

Yeah, she'll, she'll come through the barn. Yeah, just singing at the top of her lungs. And I'm like, babe, You got to remember on Thursday nights, like, I know every other night you can sing to the horses all you want, but like, yeah.

And she's like, Ted, I did tone it down.

I did. I was, I was singing at a 4, right? I was like, I know, babe, but you got to take it down to like a negative 3, right?

That's normal. Yeah, right.

Yeah, for everybody else. So anyway, we, we had a really great time, man. I went, I took my son trout fishing. Oh yeah, on, um, the Little Red.

Yeah.

Which is like, man, like, here's the thing that I think most people just don't realize is how beautiful the water is in Arkansas. That's the thing for me that just blows my mind every time I go is how beautiful the water is in Arkansas.

Are you— do you realize that the Arkansas lakes are some of the most clear lakes in all of America?

I don't doubt it.

People come from all over America to dive in Arkansas lakes. And they've, they've sunk some things down in, in there, yeah, um, on purpose. But like, they're, they're super clear, so you can get all the way down to the bottom and it's just like, like it is near the top.

Yeah, we— I mean, we were posting pictures. I mean, if you, if you want to see them, you can go over to my Facebook. But I mean, people, people were commenting on my wife's pictures like, what did you— what, like, what filter did you use to make the water that blue? And it's like, there's no filter on these pictures, right?

The water's just blue.

Right. And, and some people were like, well, why? And I was like, well, because it's coming— it's literally coming out of the mountain about 150 yards from where we were standing.

Yeah.

And, and so it's just, it's crystal clear.

Yep. The, the exception to that is the Arkansas River, which comes from Colorado.

Well, that makes sense. Yeah.

Well, it— there's a reason.

There's nothing worse than filthy hippie water.

No.

There's a reason.

That's true. There's a reason it was named the Arkansas because it was found in Arkansas.

Uh-huh.

And then they followed it and followed it and they're like, This is actually from Colorado, but we already named it, so we're gonna leave it Arkansas.

Is it called the Arkansas River in Colorado?

It is.

Okay. I've never been to Colorado, so I don't know.

There is a Colorado River.

I knew that.

But it's different.

Okay. Not the same river.

Not the same river.

At the border, we change it.

That's right. Different river altogether.

I'm revealing how my lack of nautical internal land rivers.

I don't think I've told you that I have, uh, I know someone who's about to go into college soon.

Uh-huh.

and she is— she wants to go into maritime archaeology.

I know who you're talking about.

Yeah, is that not amazing?

That is amazing.

We've talked about that, haven't we?

Is she going down to Texas A&M in Galveston?

I, I haven't fully understand. She, she is interested in A&M, and I, I know that she needs to go down there. But anyway, it's just pretty amazing. I'd never heard of that. I was like, that's amazing.

So anyway, we, we have a really cool guest tonight in the studio.

Sure, yeah.

We got Amy Honeycutt.

Here she is, right over here. Yep, here she is.

So, and we're gonna be— we're gonna be talking all things home organization. Yeah, yeah, you got— you gotta scoot up to the microphone. People, people want to hear you.

Gotcha.

There you go. All right, so super excited to have you on the show tonight. Thank you for being here. I know it was kind of a last-minute deal. I appreciate you, uh, dropping in.

So you're, you're on my top friends list now, which, trust me, there's only 4 of them. I'll take what I can get. That's right.

So, and it's not just because we can, like, have a glass of bourbon together, like, which, you know.

Yeah.

Cheers.

So talk to us a little bit about how you— well, first, what is the name of your business? Let everybody know.

Yeah. So my name is Amy Honeycutt. I am the owner and organizer of a personal organizing by the name of Simplified spaces here in Montgomery County area.

Okay. And how did you even get started?

Yeah. So, to make a long story short, I left teaching after about 20 years. And I am actually a double business owner. I also do coaching as well. That took me out of the classroom and gave me the availability to do, you know, organizing, decluttering, helping families, helping people. that I have been doing pretty much my whole life and really trying to help people do and wanted to make a little bit of money but also pay forward my gifts a little bit. Yeah, and decided to go into business doing it about 3 years ago.

Cool.

Yeah, so, so no major epiphany, just it's something I love doing, something I had been wanting to do for a long time, and yeah, I guess it just Decided to just go for it and just take the chance on it, and it's been good so far.

Yeah, I'll tell everybody, like, so I've, I've actually been in Amy's home, and like, one of the things that to me makes a big difference is when, when someone can actually live out what they're trying to help people do. That makes a big difference to me, you know. And so like, being in Amy's home, like, she lives out what she's trying to help people do. Like, her home is what I think most people wish that their home looked like on a regular basis.

Now, granted, you came to the house and I ran through the house and picked up for the 5 minutes before you got there.

So here's—

5 minutes? Like, 5 minutes?

Here's the thing is like, I, I, yeah, I go into lots of people's homes on a daily basis. I know for a fact that you can't make your house look like what your house, your house looks like in 5 minutes to where, you know, you can tell that someone has spent the time getting things in order so that it's— their house doesn't, you know, overwhelm them.

I feel like that was a shot across the bow, correct?

A little bit.

Okay.

Just saying.

It was deliberate.

Okay.

I will, I will absolutely take that. I mean, that to me is a, is a, is a true compliment.

I mean, honestly, you know, we And I know your husband, so it's a struggle.

Right.

I call my husband the little rabbit droplets. He walks in the door.

But, um, well, like, so, but like, here's what, here's what most people like. Your, your husband is an outdoorsman.

He is.

I mean, he is a hunter. He's an outdoorsman. He, I mean, I, and like, I think, I think most people's idea of who that person is would be like, oh my gosh, that guy, his house must be a disaster. Because, you know, like, people, people think about the kind of person that goes out in the woods and goes hunting as kind of a messy person. So, and I don't know that he— I don't think that he is, but I definitely think that he gets a lot of help from you.

Boy, does he. Boy, does he.

More than he'd like. But no, uh, my husband is no slob by any means, or we clearly wouldn't be together. But, you know, um, Yeah, I mean, we both have multiple interests, but yeah, like you said, he loves to fish, he loves to hunt, he loves to golf, he loves— he's got all of these different things and, and they've got to go somewhere, um, or they just go all over the floor, you know?

Yeah.

But I mean, that's, that's a lot of people. We don't have kids running around the house. Kids are a big factor as well, for sure. Um, they make a big difference, but You know, I learned a long time ago, I was a full-time worker, a full-time student, just a busy person in, in general. You know, I like to live life. I was in a running group and, uh, church stuff and, and you name it. And so I was rarely home, but I was having to slice every hour of every day. I don't want to spend my whole life cleaning a house.

Yeah.

I don't wanna have to pick up all the time. I want to you know, be able to clean up pretty quickly, make a big mess. You know, I love to cook, make a mess, cook, um, let him come in and make a mess and do whatever. But everything needs to have its place.

Yeah.

And that's, you know, COVID was a bit of a benefit because it gave everybody extra time to get in their house. Um, for me, that was a dream come true. I had extra time to do that, and we had just gotten married. blend in our home together. And so, you know, I kind of cheated on that a little bit because I had more time than I probably would have had COVID not happened and we had been locked down right after.

You had more concentrated training opportunities.

Exactly.

That's true.

Exactly. Is that where that's supposed to go, dude? Like, that's not where that's supposed to go.

Yeah. No.

Yeah.

You know, you're supposed to put that in, you know, right?

We talked about this yesterday.

I thought we had an understanding. When we got married, like, that was okay.

Now, and I— and with all— I do go out of my way to not be OCD, um, with it, you know. I want him to be just as comfortable in our home as I want everybody to come in my home, relax, have a good time, not feel like there's plastic all over the furniture and you can't move and you can't breathe and you can't make a mess. Um, he probably wasn't happy the day that I got a label maker. I was very happy, and it wasn't because he didn't know where to put place things in place, or I didn't.

I just loved labeling everything.

So the house is also quite labeled.

That's awesome.

Um, yeah, I mean, it is our attic, you know. And, and as a coach, I took on a whole lot of equipment from the lady that I bought the business from.

Okay.

So our attic is— it's also been a big project for both of us that we've had to work on, where the hunting stuff goes. All of my, you know, play ball, all my coaching stuff goes. The Jeep stuff is in there. The Jeep stuff loves to go everywhere.

Yeah, yeah.

So yeah, I mean, it is. I have to work hard at that and we have to go back at it. That's kind of the trick that's important. You can make systems and you can clean up and you can filter and live minimally, but life's gonna come back in and it's gonna come back at you. And if you don't come back at it every couple of months, he probably wants to strangle me every couple months 'cause I walk in and go, Nope, the Scrooge, it's going back. We've got to go back at it.

Yeah. You said something a minute ago that triggered a couple of things in my mind. One of them was—

You were triggered.

I was triggered. One of them was— A little bit. I was a little bit. One of them was the Ray Barone reference with the plastic on the couches. Just made me think of that.

But I got to tell you, one of my favorite episodes is when they get that high-powered vacuum cleaner and she tries to go in and get dirt out of her couch and gets nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Damn it.

Yeah, it's so funny. I love it. Oh man, it's a great show. Um, but the, the thing that you said was the, the— it was the OCD comment, because I feel like most people, they walk into someone's home that's like completely clean and they just assume OCD.

Yep.

Right. And it's like, well, but it doesn't have to be. It doesn't. It actually shouldn't be. It should be that everything has a place and everything is in its place type of thing, right? But, um, you know, true OCD is not like everything needs to be organized. Really, true OCD is way— It's more—

it's a lot for that. And I do— I say that jokingly, but I say that respectfully. There are a lot of people that really Truly fight that.

Sure, but there's a misnomer out there that people that just need things clean and put together— I'm a control freak and I need it. Exactly. And that's really bad.

I mean, like, OCD looks more like germophobia than it does like tidiness.

Yep.

You know?

So, yeah. So stop. I'm just calling people out right now. Stop calling people OCD that have to clean the house.

Yeah.

That's all I'm doing.

Good job.

That's right.

Yeah.

You're just trying to, like, project against your untidiness?

Well, like, I have a little bit of OCD in me, and my son has a little bit of OCD in him, and it's very, you know, like undiagnosed, but I promise you it's there, um, type of thing. And I don't know, like, I feel like there's nothing— there's nothing wrong with anything like that, but I feel like people that organize well, there's, there's so many things. Like, I've got a friend who He has a very large garage. It's basically a 3-car garage. And, um, he doesn't keep his cars in there because he's got so many other tools and things like that. But he has like manuals for cars and all that kind of thing. But it— but literally,

if, if I were to say, Craig, go get the bungee cords.

Mm-hmm.

You could walk in his, in his garage and walk back out with the bungee cords. In less than a minute.

Yeah.

Because they're labeled and they are alphabetized and everything is in its place.

I know someone with a shop like that.

Yeah.

And I walked in and went, I've never seen a man's place look anything like that. Like a shop.

Yeah.

It was amazing. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's really actually quite refreshing in many, many ways because whenever it comes to that, there's never a time whenever you're like, now where did I put that? You know, because that happens to everybody. It's like you waste so much time. You looking for the things that you— it was just right there, right? Like, and nope, that was 3 days ago.

So I'm gonna confess some stuff tonight.

Yeah.

So we're gonna, we're gonna learn some stuff about Greg because I have these tendencies. But like, I'm actually, I'm laid back enough to where like, I don't have to do them. But like, when they come on, like, it's so the way, the way this will manifest in our home is my wife will come into the closet and she'll be like, oh, so this is what we're doing today. Because what I will inevitably be doing is sorting my shirts by color.

Well, of course.

Interesting.

You know, so, like, they have to, like, follow the, you know, the ROYGBIV.

Right.

Yeah. And so, like, I'll just be like, I've had it. Today's the day I'm sorting the shirts. And so, like, they have to be— and, like, once I, once I get in that space, like, I can't stop until I finish that.

Well, I think there's a misnomer that, you know, it's just women that are like that. There's actually a lot of guys that they're not, you know, they don't have to have everything compulsively in its place. But there's actually a lot of— I mean, my brothers were extreme. And then a lot of it was our teacher, my grandmother, my mother. You know, they taught us to be that way. But I, I know a lot of guys that— and husbands that, you know, they like things in place, and they're actually the ones that are better about it. And they're the ones that are cleaner or more, you know, organized. Or, you know, it's— so it's, it's— I

think it's a little bit of a myth, you know, that people think, well, for sure, it's a women thing.

Well, and like, to be organized, I know, I know for certain, like, once I get done with that, my my anxiety level drops.

Absolutely. So here's the thing. Here's what makes you different from me in this point is mine never get not in the right color scheme.

Oh, they always stay?

Mine stay in the— and part of it now, now granted, part of it is because—

but this is a negotiation that happens, right? Because like, I could demand that they stay in the order. But I'm also not the one that does the laundry.

Right.

So, and that's, that's not to say that it's, it's my wife's job. I do most of the cooking and, and all these different, like, we, we have multiple different roles in our, in our, in our household.

Right.

But, like, am I willing to lay down the idea that my shirts need to look like that in order so that someone else can do my laundry?

Yeah.

Yep.

Yep.

So, and so every once in a while, it'll just, and, like, it doesn't even bother me that she doesn't do it the way that I do it. It's just like it's gotten to the point where it now bothers me. Yeah, I'm gonna fix it. Yeah, and for that day it's gonna be good, and it'll probably last that way for a little bit longer. Um, so yeah.

Yeah, and I think that— so my wife also does laundry, uh, just the way that goes in our house as well. Um, but she's pretty good about putting it back in the right place, but if she If she doesn't, I find my, you know, shirts laying on the bed or whatever, I will put them back, but they have to go in the right place.

Awesome.

But here's the, here's the challenge to that, and I think this is where your business really, really plays into all of this, is that they have to have had a place to begin with. And if they never had a place to begin with, then putting them in any type of order is not possible. And so I feel like, I feel like home builders really do homeowners a disservice because they— what they do is they, they go in and they're like, we're gonna make this beautiful home. Like, the kitchen's gonna be this awesome place, the bathroom's gonna be this awesome place, and, uh, by the way, in the closet we're gonna put a shelf with a rod under it,

and good luck.

Or a tiny pantry.

Exactly.

In a ginormous house.

Yeah, it happens all the time.

All the time.

Yeah.

My house doesn't have a pantry.

What? It doesn't?

How do you survive?

I mean, how are you gonna get one up on that second and a half floor anyway?

I tell you, I've actually considered— so this will, this will blow your mind— I've actually considered downgrading to a smaller refrigerator.

What?

Yeah.

Well, okay, that could possibly work if you could put a refrigerator somewhere else.

I have multiple refrigerators on this property. Like, I'm not lacking for refrigerators.

Refrigeration.

It's just like I could get more storage space in my kitchen if I used a smaller refrigerator that, like, most of the space inside my refrigerator is not being utilized anyway.

Sure.

So I could get like one of those cool retro-looking ones.

Oh, that would be awesome.

Some tall skinny ones.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So FYI, this, this guy, uh, Lucas Ferguson, is saying his, uh, his garage needs an overhaul, so you might have a client.

I like it.

There you go.

He's, he's actually—

You do garages, right?

He's a buddy of mine. Yeah, he's a buddy A buddy of yours?

Is he close by?

Yeah, he lives over in Spring. He's actually really, really close.

Okay, so Lucas, hit up— hook up with, uh, Amy here and she'll get your garage organized.

There you go.

Um, well, and I think, you know, remember too, you know, everybody says the word organize, you know, that's the fun secondary part. Um, the important part is the nitty-gritty part, especially when you're talking about garages, closets, things like that. You know, you've got to get in there and kind of declutter You've got to pull items out. You've got to let people see and be aware of how much they've bought, what they've repeat bought, things like that, you know.

So, you know, the repeat bought, that's repeat bought.

Yeah, I mean, that happens a lot in pantries.

It's because you can't find it. I gotta buy it again.

Exactly. And so, you know, everybody hears the word organizing and you know, shows like Home Edit and things, they're really good about bringing awareness to the business.

Okay, you, you mentioned that to me in the pre-show. I don't know what that show is.

So there's a couple of shows out there on Netflix that, um, Michelle Kwan is one. I forget the name of her show.

Remember, she's the, she's the one that we talked about her like the last episode.

Yeah, she was like, she was like, you need to feel your clothes.

Does this bring you joy and happiness?

Yeah.

Yeah, there's a good base to that. Nobody has time to grab every single piece. You'd be amazed at the amount of clothes that I've seen in those closets. Nobody has time for that. It's a great theory.

Yeah.

Um, but I do love that she teaches kids at a young age so that you're growing young adults and adults that are learning this just like my mother and my grandmother did for us, you know. And so I, I love her. Home Edit is also great. They follow a color pattern and things like that. The benefit to them is they bring a lot of awareness to our business, um, and, and I, and I really like them. But their, their shows on Netflix, and they are organizing, but they are showing a lot of the end game, um, and with celebrities, um, they're showing a lot of the end game, and it looks so pretty and it's beautiful. But the question is, how are you gonna— call me in a week

and, um, that's not gonna function for you for more than a week, you know. And so, yeah, you know, it's— they're great shows, they bring great awareness, and they've got a lot of really good benefits to them.

Yeah. Um, but in, in reality, I mean, that's why we started this show, because so many of those shows are so unrealistic as to like— people, people love watching, and I get why, because like, oh, like you started off with this, you only had $5,000 and you ended up with that, and that's amazing. It's like, well, like they had like a $20,000 show budget for that episode, but You know, like, and so like we wanted to do more of like the reality of like homeownership. And so like you're telling like, like, yeah, it's all pretty when there's like a beautiful celebrity saying like, help me.

And like 10 people helping out.

Yeah. Yeah. What?

Yeah. So go ahead.

Go ahead. No, but I mean, that's the, that's the part that I do love about this job. This is a very wonderful and personal job.

Totally.

Um, that's why I'm not big on going out and poaching people necessarily. It's something that I want you to be able to come to me when you're ready. Um, we are— I'm going into someone's home with their personal items, um, and, and they've got to be ready to do some, some purging and some, some decluttering. Because you can organize all the stuff that's there, but if you have a mountain of stuff that you made look pretty and you basketed you're going to be right back to where you were a week later.

Yeah.

And you did nothing except put more money in my bank account, which you can do, right? You know, but—

And frustrate the person. Yeah, right. I mean, because like, they're just gonna end up right back where they started.

So they're really not— you're really not doing yourself a service. And I'm not helping if we don't get to the declutter part, if you don't get to the, to the quote unquote editing and filtering so that You know, there's just so many levels to that, whether it's psychologically you can see how much money you've put out so you can see what you have. Um, COVID has been a really big— and not even just that, the last 5 years of technology, it's really easy to push that button and go boop, oh, and it's here in a week. And then there's this, this euphoria that happens. It's like a drug, it's a high, and it's become very easy. And so homes are filling up really fast.

Yeah.

And people have looked up the last couple of years and gone, oh, oh, now the mountain is here and now I don't know what to do with it.

Yeah, we feel that way right now. Yep, very much so, because we just moved.

Yeah.

And when we moved, um, first of all, this is not normal probably, but we downsized.

It's good.

No, um, we, we went from 2,400 square foot feet to 2,200 square feet. But the biggest significant difference is that we went from, uh, 2 living areas to 1 living area. So that second living area was a playroom.

Mm-hmm.

So we had a crap ton of toys and furniture and some other things. And so we're, we're having to, to go, now all of your toys are going in your room. And so, um, this is, this is a challenge. And we have purged, like, like literally just— it's one of those deals where it's like, okay, how long have we gone without opening that box? Like, there's probably nothing in there we need, you know? And just throw the thing away, you know?

Yeah.

We've, and we've, we've had to do that kind of thing, uh, because we just don't have the same amount of space and we don't have as much storage in this home. as we did the other one as well, but we have bigger, like, pantry. Our pantry's bigger. So it's, it's just one of those things where if you're just living in the same place for years and years and years, you finally go, okay, um, I have too much stuff.

Yeah.

And it's hard to, to let go of those things.

Can be.

And it's hard to even know how much you actually have, you know. So I guess one of the questions I've got for you is Okay, if I were to just say you could, you could organize this part of the home for the rest of your life, what would that, what would that be? What's your favorite organization thing, place, like space in the home to organize?

Um, I would say kitchens.

Okay, why?

And mostly because I'm a, I'm a kitchen girl. I love my pantry and my kitchen because I love to cook. I love to, I love to be in my kitchen. I love to cook. And when it all, when it flows and quote unquote feng shui, um, and you can walk in there and, and I can, I know where everything's at and I can grab it and I can move fast and I can make a mess.

Mm-hmm.

But then I can clean it up really quick.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and I love helping people that, you know, whether they're individuals or they're families, it's kitchens are really one of those kind of things that people have stuff That's in weird places. And then when you finally help them not only edit some out and give them some more room, but then you help them figure out the much more logical way and, and places to put things, and they walk in and go, uh-huh, that makes sense. And then they can do the exact same thing, and they can really enjoy being in that space.

And do you know why things are in that place that's a weird place? Do you know why?

Why?

It's because that's where they put it the first time.

Exactly.

It's like, that's where it goes.

I just want it out of the way. I want it off the counter.

That's right. That's— so now that's where it goes.

Yeah.

And it's like, wait a minute, like, why do you have a bowl in your silverware drawer?

Oh my gosh.

Why'd you do that? Like, well, and it's— what's really funny is my mother-in-law will— she'll come over and she's, she's wonderful about like like cleaning up the kitchen. So she'll do the dishes and she'll even put away things. And she apologizes all the time. She's like, you're gonna have to reorganize your kitchen whenever I leave because I don't know where things go. And she was like—

and literally, I'll be like, every once in a while I'll call her.

I'll be like, hey, you remember that bowl we used? Where did you put that? And inevitably she's like, I don't know. You're gonna have to look. You're gonna have to search. Because she just puts things places. Oh my gosh. It's pretty hilarious. I do laugh about it. Which is good because the alternative would just be frustrating.

It's not going to be anywhere high.

No, it's not.

That's my problem.

All of our family, nothing is high.

That's what I was going to say. Yeah. You got to keep it at eye level and you'll be good.

Anything that we ever need is not something that's high. I promise. I promise.

Yeah. So no, one of my— I did, um, helped a family, a large family not long ago, and they had multiple kids. And we opened up the drawers and found the most random stuff, like chocolates in with the glasses. And I don't even— I took a picture of it because the mom and I were just laughing so much because you could tell the kids were taking responsibility, helping put things away where they were supposed to go, and clearly hiding things from their other siblings.

Oh yeah.

So this, this wasn't like a standard junk drawer.

No, this was the cabinets, like their daily use cabinets. I think there were like Legos in there.

It's like contraband.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah, they're like, those are my Doritos, and the reason they're my Doritos is because they're in the 3rd cabinet from the left where nobody is ever gonna look but me. But it wasn't food.

It was literally, I think, like Legos, and it was so random. It was hilarious.

That's funny.

Yeah, it was cute. Really cute. Hey, but the kids were helping.

That's right. They were— they're doing the best they could.

They were doing.

Yeah. So you like doing kitchens. Um, what I'm just curious, because we do— we, I mean, we have, we have all, all sorts of people that listen to our show, but I do feel like one of the places that needs the most organization is the garage. Yeah, garages are really, really bad. And it's because—

not just because of the one you just walked through to get into the studio.

Exactly. No, but that's actually way better than it used to be. Well, but here's the deal. Like, for many, many people, the garage is simply another storage area. It is not a place to store vehicles. It is simply a place to store other stuff.

Which is weird for Texas.

It is.

I mean, like, do you not want to be like hot when you get in your car?

No. Like, I honestly, we use our garage as a place to store vehicles except for mine, which doesn't fit. fit in a garage. But that's just because it's a beast. But, um, it— like, we use it as a garage. But then, I mean, people use it from everything from, this is where my lawnmower goes, to this is where my tools go, to this is where my toilet paper lives because I don't have another place to store it. So, um, I think the question I've got is, where do you— where do you begin on On organizing things like that? Is it like, hey, you need shelving units, or you need pegboard, or you need— what is kind of a— how do you walk us through that process a little bit?

That process is the exact same as, as an organizer, whether you're dealing with a small space like a pantry, a small closet, you're dealing with a whatever, whatever room you're going into, including a garage. You are going to— and, and a lot of garages, I've learned with garages to break them into 2 days at least.

Yeah.

You're spending 1 day concentratedly going through, um, you know, and, and filtering things out, throwing trash away, what goes to donation. You know, you need to conceitedly make piles that are similar. Half the time the batteries are in the garage, the batteries are in the bedroom. The batteries are in the kitchen. The battery— I mean, just even little things like that instead of having one place. And so you've got to go through and, and start at one end of a garage, one end of a space, and you've got to pull things out and work with your person to start filtering through, um, you know, minimizing some of that stuff. Like I said, the end game is where you get into

doing an outline of pegboards and shelves. But you have no business getting that far until you've edited some of that. The other thing that I'm seeing a lot in garages and, and in homes is the last couple of years have been so just uneasy, and so everybody's been preparing for the apocalypse. Yeah, there is so much— Sam's and Costco have loved the last couple of years.

Oh yeah. Oh, for sure.

I mean, they're gajillionaires at this point because people have have bought so much overflow.

They've hoarded.

They've hoarded.

Yeah.

Because they're like, well, if we get locked back down again, we're not— so that is a lot of, believe it or not, what's happening in garages. But, but a lot of the time, it, it's no different in a garage than is any other space. It's just more time-consuming. You need to do it in cooler weather, but you're going to pull stuff out, and then you're going to make those categories, and then you start making an outline and a plan. You know, do you need to buy shelving units? Do you need to buy drawers? Do you make a peg thing? And it has to be, especially a garage, but anywhere in the house, it has to be tailored to a family.

The best thing about this job is meeting so many different families with so many different interests. It's like you said, our household loves running and fishing and hunting and golf carts and you name it. We're an outdoorsy kind of, kind of crew. Not everybody's like that, you know. And, and some people, you know, they've got tons of kids' bikes and tons of kids' stuff. Um, you know, you've got dad who's a woodworker, and some families, they're like, my husband doesn't even know what a hammer is. He doesn't know what a hammer is. He doesn't even know what a screwdriver is. Like, so you have to get to know your people. You have to get to know—

I'm gonna quiz Chris later, by the way. It'll be multiple choice, so he's got a chance, but But, um, yeah, he's got 4 options.

Your people, get to know what they like, get them filtered, get them edited, and get them— then you make an outline. And depending on what their family needs uniquely, then you come back in a second day and you kind of implement those. And it may take a third day. It really depends on— every garage is different. Yeah, there's some I went into recently, she's like, I have so much stuff, I don't even know what to do with it. And I walk in and it looks like she's already pretty much filtered and organized it. And then I walk into some that are highly understated and I have to take a giant gulp because, okay, I can make it happen. Here we go. But it's—

they can be overwhelming even to me. But my dad's greatest phrase was, eat the elephant one bite at a time with big things in life like that. And then so that's a lot of what times what I tell my clients. They're so overwhelmed. The garage is the overflow. what they can't fit in the house makes its way out there. In addition to if they're a sporty family, if they're a hunter family, if they're, you know, all that stuff, it just gets shoved out in the garage. It's the excess that they don't— the counters may be cleared in the kitchen, but the garage looks like a crazy town.

And that's tough too, because like, especially where we live, the garage is typically un-air-conditioned.

Yeah.

And so you wind up putting things out there and then you're—

Get damaged.

And it gets damaged by the heat. And I mean, heat will decimate, yeah, everything. I mean, you, you know, you look back on it and go like, if you really needed that, yeah, you probably didn't want it in your garage unless it's a tool or something that can handle that, that sort of heat. But like, you know, for example, We had, um, some tennis rackets in our— the rackets are fine, but like the handles, I mean the grips, those things are gone, man. Like, I'm gonna have to completely regrip those things. And it's fine, it's just you need to know that whenever you choose to put things like that in an un-air-conditioned space, like, you're gonna—

Yeah, well, I've learned so much about you in just like 5 seconds.

Really?

Yeah.

Well, that's good.

That you own tennis rackets.

Well, and I own Let's be clear. I own a—

I am.

Thank you. Thank you. I own a tennis racket and a couple of racquetball rackets.

Okay.

Yeah, I actually love racquetball.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah.

Technology is one I actually see in garages a lot.

A lot of technology.

A lot of old used computers and things like that end up in garages a lot.

What's the point?

Just throw that thing away.

They just melt out there.

They do.

Yeah.

I mean, that's one of the worst things you can put in that kind of heat.

So we, we don't have a lot of easy electronic recycling places around here.

For sure.

If you have a listener that can find me a place that I have been on the lookout for for a long time that recycles electronics, I'm on the lookout for it because it's a very big thing that people need help with.

So I recently had my eyes open to some of, like, the recycling fraud that goes on. Fraud?

Yes. Okay. Let's talk about this because I have no idea what you're talking about.

So, like, somebody was telling me that recently, like, they had, like, a, a garbage in their apartment complex in Chicago.

Okay.

And that they tracked it down and, like, there was a recycling chute and a garbage chute, and they both went to the same place.

Ah.

And part of the problem is, is like, and I didn't know this, but, like, apparently if you have any food particles on recycling, it's unrecyclable.

Oh.

Yeah.

So, like, you have to rinse everything completely?

So, like, you get that old Papa John's pizza box, it's made out of cardboard, and you put it in the recycling bin. if it's got any cheese left on it, it's unusable, unrecyclable. Yeah. And so like, there's so much about like—

What are you supposed to do with it?

Exactly. That's the thing.

I wanna, I wanna be—

Everyone puts it in the recycling bin even though it's got like old crusty cheese on it, but they get it there and they sort it and they can't recycle it. Even though it's giving you the feeling of being like a good citizen, like I'm recycling, I'm sorting my trash.

So let's just be clear here. A pizza box has never been recycled.

Pretty much. Ever.

Not one.

Now, you'll get the pizza box that said it's made from recycled materials, but it's not from previous pizza boxes.

No, that's coming from like half-price boxes.

Something.

Yeah, something else.

It's Amazon is where it's coming from.

Yeah, no doubt.

So anyway, we— so did, did you want to get to Lucas's question?

Sure, ask it.

Okay, so his question is, what is the best way Here's what he's asking.

Like, okay, in your business, how do you get more business? Like, do you advertise a certain way? Do you ask people?

How are you getting most of your new clients, I think is what he's asking.

Yeah. Most of my new clients, so I advertise quite a bit on social media. I personally have been pretty lucky about, you know, working for Interfaith for years and getting to know families. It's also at a point where I've been in business for 3 years, and not to toot my own horn, but I'm pretty good at what I do.

Sure.

And so, you know, to be in business for 3 years, you'd have to be.

Yeah, I mean, and, and so, you know, I— a lot of it comes from, you know, satisfied customers that, you know, talk to other— I deal a lot with, I guess, my niche. I love helping individuals, but my niche is families.

Okay.

And it probably stems from being a teacher and getting to know so many families over the years as it is.

Yeah.

Um, but helping really busy moms and things like that that are just— a lot of the times they're just as good as I am at handling that, but they've had multiple kids and now they're so busy they need an extra set of hands. But, um, when it comes to new clientele, part of it is social media. You know, it is Facebook advertising. It is you know, neighborhood pages. It is, you know, getting out there. But I've also done things like I've gone out to Deacon Baldy's and done a thing where I just like to meet the community and gone out and done a vendor's night and met some people in the community. Or I've done this.

Um, there's just a variety of ways to, to get out there and do it. I don't— like I said, I will put my information out there, but I'm not looking to I don't— I'm not a sales pressure kind of person.

Sure.

And, and this is a very personal job. This is something that'll— for, you know, some people it's like, the rest of my house is fine, but my pantry, I just can't figure it out. But for the majority of people, they're really struggling with, you know, whether they have ADD, ADHD like me a little bit, you know, and, and they're just— they're treading water with it. And they've tried this and they've tried that and they've read all the organizing books that they can find and they're not working or, or whatever, you know. And so—

Well, because there's a big difference in going to The Container Store, which is a great place, and being like, look, I'm gonna organize my house. That's fine. But until you do what the other thing— you've talked about it the entire podcast here, which is—

You gotta do the hard part.

You have to do the hard part, which is you have to declutter. You have to know how do I use my space before I actually try to organize my space.

Yeah.

And what are the things that are important to me and what are the things that are less important to me? Like, you need someone to actually walk in who is unattached, who is not emotional about this, to be able to say, all right, Craig, like, do you actually need that? Like, do you use that often? And legitimately, whenever Craig says, yes, I use that every day. Okay, great. We're keeping that. We're putting it front and center. Where it's like, no, you know what? I didn't use that since last year. Okay, well, do you really need it? Yeah, I really kind of need it. Okay, well, it's like you need someone who can do that with you. And a lot of times, for most

people, that mediator— yeah, that, that mediator is necessary.

Yeah, I mean, it really is. They just— a lot of times they really just need that extra set of hands. Some people need help making those decisions. Some people don't really need help making the decisions. They just need an extra set of hands. And literally that schedule time, because if they don't schedule that time— or some people are so good. We all have our, our different assets and things that we're good at. I'm good at this. I'm good at kids. I am terrible at accounting.

Mm-hmm.

So I leave that to an accountant. It's the same kind of effect, you know. And so, you know, you've got people that are great, like doctors and stuff like that. They're wonderful at that. But inside their home, they really struggle with well what I think is a common sense logical place to put a battery, to put batteries, to put this. But they're like, I literally don't know what to do with it. You know, it's it's it's they need that extra help. They need that extra push. They need that extra set of eyes or just a different kind of of head place. And it and it is it's. That's why it's such a personal job. I work one-on-one

with people for hours helping them edit their stuff. And the goal is not to come in— I like to, like you said, you've been through my house. I like to live as minimally as possible but make a mess. I don't want to make my life or my husband's life or family that just came in and visited, I don't want it to where we can't comfortably live our house and we can't make a mess and the whole nine yards. And I want the same thing for you know, my families. But I lost my train of thought on that. I was, I was thinking about—

but—

No.

I mean, like, I, I think, I think what you're talking about is, is that it, it really alleviates a lot of the stress that comes with, like, where, where is that cup? Where, where is that thing? And, like, if you have less things, it's easier to find the thing that you need in, in that moment in time. And when there's, you know, there's a difference between looking through 100 things versus looking through 5 things.

Yeah.

You know? And, and so, like, if I have 5 things to, to sort through, like, it's not as stressful to go, I, I can look at 5 things.

Mhmm.

But if I, if you tell me I have to look at 100 things to find the one thing that I need, like, it's, it's gonna stress me out, and I'm just not gonna do it.

Yeah.

And, and so, like, that's gonna get pushed off. and, and, and just, and, and procrastinated and then caused more stress and anxiety further on down the line. And that's just gonna snowball. Whereas with the 5 things, like, I can sort through 5 things.

Yeah.

Well, so the thought process with that is like, like she said, that, that was my train of thought. I don't want to minimize you so much to the point where, you know, you can't enjoy being in your house. And going back to, you know, Michelle's, hold everything and does it bring you great joy? It's— you want to live with the things that do bring you joy, that do bring you memories, that do serve a really good purpose.

Mm-hmm.

If they don't accomplish those things, they don't need to be there. If they are not serving a purpose inside your home, they don't need to be there, and they can be a gift and a blessing to someone else. Sometimes it's just literally trash you're holding on. Like, my mom used to be the, maybe someday I'll do it.

I'm like, yeah, yeah. My wife is— my wife was asking me about this just the other day. She was like, we have a ton of mugs. Oh, mugs are— and she was like, and she was like, why do we have all these mugs? I was like, well, first of all, uh, Craig made fun of me just this morning for drinking chocolate milk instead of drinking coffee. I was drinking Dr Pepper, y'all. But I don't drink coffee. I just don't drink coffee. I never have. And it's not—

I mean, the insult still landed.

Yeah, it did. Oh, the insult was there. It was fine because I, I don't care what people think about me in most cases anyway. But like, I, I— it's just not one of those things that's, that's super important to me. I really prefer cold drinks. I do more hot drinks anyway. So like—

I'm actually really happy that that stuck with you through the whole day.

I just, I just remembered. Um, But like, it doesn't matter to me because I don't— I just don't need that kind of thing. But the problem— here's the problem with mugs— is many, many mugs that people own, they bought or were given, and there's a reason they have it.

Yeah, they are.

And so like, for instance, I've got a mug— It's tied to a memory, or it's tied to a person, or it's tied to a place. I mean, like, it was a souvenir. I bought it at Disney World. It's got Mickey's face on it, right? Whatever. Like, I've got a mug that Kimberly was like, do you really want this one? It says Honorary Arkie on it. Okay, so—

Honorary what?

Arkie.

What is that?

From Arkansas.

Is that what they call people from there?

Uh, no, they're Arkansans is what they call them. But it says Honorary Arkie on the, on the, uh, mug. But it was given to me by, by my friend Amanda. Yeah. And it was right after we moved to Arkansas, and everybody's like trying People, here's the thing that needs to be like in your like title on the show. Honorary Arky.

Honorary Arky. Kevin Hacken.

It's a lower third, right? That's who I am. But like the thing is like people from Arkansas, if you move from Texas, they try to draw that Texas out of you, which really is never gonna happen. It doesn't happen. It really, they don't understand that this is a losing battle. Either way, that's one of those mugs that I'm like, I can't get rid of that. Like, I've gotta have it. Like, it's really, really important to me.

There's something about throwing that away that's gonna just like, like break you.

It just doesn't feel right. Like, like you're gonna have to accidentally drop it so that it breaks for me to go—

Just give it to my sister-in-law. 5 minutes, man, she'll be done. It'll be done.

That's right. That's funny.

Or you just gave your wife an idea.

Yeah, it's an idea that's doable because But it's one of those things, it's like you have 14,000 mugs and you need 2 or whatever, right? And honestly, who uses mugs? We have Yetis these days. Like, why are you using mugs?

This is an issue that you just don't understand because you're not a coffee drinker.

I know.

Yeah, you can't, you can't speak into this issue.

Okay, but, but I only can because I have all of them and I don't use them. That's why I can speak into it.

This should inform you because like people who actually use them want a lot of them.

Sure, I can see that.

Yeah, that was an emotional break for me because as a teacher, yeah, I mean, you get—

Yeah, you get— that's a gift, right?

Yeah, like when I was downsizing and moving from my own place into moving in with a roommate, and even when I did it again and moved in with Chris after we got married, it was— they do, they hold a personal thing, you know? And if someone asked me to get rid of my Golden Girls coffee mug, nope. I will hurt you.

Not happening.

It's never happening. So, you know, but it is— mugs are a weird one. They're a weird one to get rid of.

But you have 3 cabinets full of them, and, and you have to— the thing is, you can't put them in a box even though you're not using them. They have to go in the cabinet.

I feel like we need to address the elephant in the room. Why is The Golden Girls such a popular thing? Oh my gosh. Like, now, like, why is it so popular?

Now, today.

Like, I know, I, I get it. Betty White just passed away. She was brilliant, like hilarious woman. But like, why is that show so popular?

Like, still stopped being popular? Yes, I'm asking the question.

Why do you watch it now?

Yeah, I will watch old episodes.

How do you watch it?

How?

Just like a 9mm film or something? Like, what, what is—

you've got—

well, we had a person this morning, a friend of ours, who was like I wake up every morning and watch Leave It to Beaver. Leave It to Beaver!

Who are you?

It's like, why? And where are you watching this?

Yes, where?

Like, is it— it's not on Nick at Nite anymore.

That's not even a thing.

No.

Like, not even— like, there's like 50% of the population in America that's not even going to get that reference.

Exactly. Leave it to what? Yeah.

Like, do you seriously watch it now?

I watch episodes when they pop up, but I—

How do they pop up? Are you— Do you have a cable or something?

Fubu. They stream on Fubu, which is like live TV.

What is Fubu?

I thought that was a clothing brand. Fubu?

Like the baggy shirts or something?

Yeah, wasn't it like a clothing brand?

My husband, it's a streaming thing.

Is it really?

Yeah.

What is it like? How do you get like YouTube TV or something?

No, it's live stream.

Someone needs to—

Someone needs to explain to us. Old-timers. I have no idea what's happening.

But I mean, you can go—

we're out of the mainstream, Kevin.

I'm 41 years old, y'all. I'm freaking old.

I only know because my husband downloaded the app. But yeah, it's like a live TV thing.

But I mean, are you watching like on your TV?

Netflix? You can watch it. I don't go in and watch episodes like constantly anymore if they pop up.

But let me ask, let me ask you this because this will be telling. How many seasons of Golden Girls was there?

Oh, That I can't give you an answer for.

You don't know? Okay, good.

Thank you. Thank you.

She just redeemed herself because I don't know either. And I'm like, I'm like, okay, like at least 4 or 5.

I'm going 14 and I'm just gonna leave it there.

There's no way it was 14.

No, it's probably 6.

Yeah.

You think so?

I think so.

We need to know. Somebody needs to like Google this.

Yeah, I can Google it, but I don't want to.

You don't want to?

I've got my computer literally right in front of me.

Y'all keep talking. I'm gonna do some, do some actual research that matters.

Wow. Wow. Organizing.

Organizing.

Wow.

Back to the real good stuff.

We could talk about those goals.

I love those goals.

Wow.

Okay, so what is— okay, so we're on the topic now. What are the things that you find people cannot get rid of?

Like 7, by the way. I was so close. I was so close, y'all.

I was— I said 6. And he said that's way too many. You said how many?

4 or 5.

4 or 5. Okay. I'm the closest without going over. We're all a little wrong.

Okay.

A little wrong. Well, dadgummit, I guess so.

I'm never wrong.

So what is the thing that you find people just cannot let go of?

Oh, wow. You know, most people are— I mean, obviously photographs, family mementos. Mugs are a little bit of a tough one. Um, you know, kids clothing, kids memorabilia, which is great. And I try and find a good medium for people, especially with multiple kids, making memory boxes.

Yeah, because it's all the artwork, it's all the things from first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth baby outfits, you know, things like especially baby clothing. Yep.

And so to kind of solve that, we can make memory boxes for all the kids. and get a decent size so that, you know, you keep the ones that are really, really important. You know, the first outfit they came home from the hospital in, etc. You know, you don't need to keep every single piece of artwork. So you can make those memory boxes and keep the important stuff. I'd say that's probably the biggest thing because it's so, you know, memory-tied. You know, that's something they don't want to to part with or to filter, but they know it's, it's pretty vital because it takes over. Mugs are a big one. Clothing, believe it or not, clothing. Um, even in my own closet,

you know, I had clothing that I finally about 6 to 8 months ago, I had clothes from like 10 years ago.

Because dadgummit, you're gonna fit back in that clothes.

Women especially, that's our theory.

No, I think it's men too. I think I— for me, I got jeans and I'm never fitting in again. Yeah, I promise. Maybe.

So I'm gonna go off on a tangent here for a second.

Bring it.

Because I'm kind of pissed at Wrangler right now.

Oh, what'd they do? Well, so they got no more 501s?

No, they got plenty of whatever they— whatever it is that they make. Let me tell you this. I— so Wrangler makes their cowboy cut jeans, which are great. Yeah, like I've been wearing them my whole life. So, and then they came out with the Retro brand, which is like $60 a pair or something like that now, right? I have Wranglers that were my dad's from 1974.

Oh, wow.

Which are still intact. I wear them to work on my property. They're faded as all get out, but Like, they're still— the stitches are still there. I've bought some of these Wranglers that from the retro line that are supposed to be like the way that they used to make them that lasted 3 months.

What?

And the belt loops ripped or they got a hole in them or something. And like, let me tell you, like, I've got like 5 pairs from the '70s that are still holding in there.

Yeah, I think they actually write the company about that. That'd be an interesting— I have my dad's old jeans compared to— like, I would— that'd be an interesting write and see what they'd say.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know what the deal is, but like, I mean, like, I know that there's like a style implement in there, like they're trying to make the jeans look like something so that people will buy them, but they weren't built the same. They're not built the same.

The old ones had steel woven in through them. Something, right?

Something. I mean, like, like, it probably didn't hurt that like my dad used to put so much starch in them. He could stand them up in the corner. Yeah, but like, you know, that probably didn't hurt, right?

But did you know that, um, Levi's used to have a deal to where if you, if you put a hole in Levi jeans— yeah, I think it was Levi. It was either Levi or Lee, one of the two ones. I'm getting, I'm getting them mixed up.

I hope it's not Lee because those were ugly.

No, they were. But here, but here's the thing, whichever one it was, they had a deal where if you put— if you got holes in them, return them.

Crazy.

They give you a new pair.

New pair?

Yep. And so my—

I need that with these Wranglers because like, speaking of—

yeah, that's the thing. Speaking of need, that's where the holes came.

The knee.

The knee. Yeah, every time.

Like, the, the— my most recent one is like, my, my issue is the belt loops. They just, they just fall off.

Yeah, and my problem was, was poor quality jeans always got holes like in the corner of the pockets in the back.

That's true too.

That was awful. And I'm like, well, now you can see my underwear.

I can't wear my fancy underwear anymore.

That's right. Like, just because that one had a taco on it, you can see it. Can't wear my taco underwear anymore.

That was not for you.

Right, right. And the problem is People, here's the— okay, you want to talk about tangents? Okay, here's a quick tangent.

I went on one, so—

So the worst part about having a hole in your clothing is that people always— they don't just point it out, they poke it out. They do. They're like, hey, you know, you got a hole right there. And I'm like, that's where my taco is. Thank you. I don't really need you.

That's someone that's never been punched in the mouth. Exactly.

But it happens all the time. Those are the same people that think it's really awesome to like, oh, you don't have any hair, let me rub your head. I'm like, no, thank you, I'm out. Stop. You don't have to.

Don't touch me.

Yeah, exactly.

I know what that means. You're keeping your clothes too long and you need my help.

That's right.

That's probably true. You throw some stuff out.

My problem is, like, especially with t-shirts, I don't— get me started on t-shirts because, like, t-shirts, and I think that's probably got to be sentimental too because— yeah, so, like, I, doing the job that I do, um, I have t-shirts from years and years and years of things that I can't let go of, and they will eventually become, uh, t-shirt quilts because it's really the only way to really preserve them and make them something that's worth something to me. Um, but the other thing is like, I, I thrive on funny t-shirts, and I'm very particular about what's funny and what's not funny. Uh, like today I'm wearing my Accordion Hero shirt, um, just because I think it's kind of funny. And I don't care if you think it's funny or not, but I do. And so like—

It's good that somebody thinks it's funny.

Yeah, me. Um, so I'm fine with it. But like, the, the thing is, I think that, that there's a lot of stuff like that that for guys are— I mean, I don't buy new clothes. Yeah, I'd, I'd I really don't, because why? Why? I'm just— I'm gonna— I, I do care about what I wear, but it's mostly that I care about that I like it and it fits well and it's comfortable. And so I, I don't buy clothes that often. I just want to keep the ones I have. The problem is I do acquire more. And so inevitably, inevitably I acquire more.

Yeah.

And so then it just stacks and stacks and stacks and I've literally got boxes and boxes of t-shirts that I don't wear purposefully because I don't wanna wear them out. Like, they're, they're in— they're, they're special to me.

They tell people how old you are.

No. I already told people how old I am on this show. I'm 41, and so are you. So—

And I've been that way longer.

It's true.

Let me circle back around to something because I— we were, we were talking about kids before, and I think, I think kids are one of the, one of the, one of the things that people use as a, a hangup to stay organized.

Mhmm.

How, and, and we, we, like, we struggle this with this in our family. Like, how do you help kids get rid of, like, old toys or, or things like that? I mean, that, that's gotta be, I'm like, I, I can imagine you being hired just to be the bad guy.

Yep.

To get rid of that Stretch Armstrong toy that his arms are broke off of and they just don't want to let go of. Like, how do you manage that?

You know, I think that's, that's why dealing with families and kids is more my niche than a lot of—

I love that word, by the way. That's gonna be a new one.

Yeah. It's like moxie.

It's one of my favorite words.

Um, it's, it's honestly more— it's less obnoxious than the way that people flip back and forth between niche I hate that.

I love it.

No, I don't.

So anyway, sorry, go ahead.

Anyways, I'm ADD and then you distract me in the middle. Anyways.

How do I say it?

Now I'm confused. Um, no, that's where, you know, that's kind of one of those little things that I excel well in because I'm so used to dealing with kids.

Sure.

But the main thing I I think I learned that from my mom. My mom was a nurse and she was so wonderful. She was a med-surg nurse.

Oh wow.

And always had us volunteering and always ran into families that were, you know, low income or anything like that. And, you know, that's probably part of where my start came from, kind of filtering things naturally as a kid, was, you know, she said every year or so Go through your stuff, and, and everybody should do that with your kids, you know, before Christmas time.

Mm-hmm.

Go through and make a conscious effort with your kids and say, what do we have in this room? We know more things are gonna come in. What do we have in this room that we can pass along? You've outgrown, um, from age to size clothes to anything. What can we pass along to other people, um, so that they can really be gifted? And then getting them involved in the process. You know, there's a lot of, um, parents that think, well, I just— I'm gonna do everything for my kids. It doesn't benefit them in any aspect.

Yeah, because if you go through and like secretly purge your kids' stuff, eventually they're gonna come back and be like, where's, you know, that?

Well, and you broke— if you do that, I have a lot of people that actually ask that to happen, and I will physically tell them no. You are breaking a trust line with your child when you do that.

Yeah.

Um, you know, my family, that happened with my mother, and, and that broke her trust. But most importantly, you just don't want to do that. You would never want someone to come in as an adult and do that to your stuff. You, you'd be mad at your spouse if they came in and did that. It's the same thing with kids, just because they're little. Um, but you have to put it in a way that They make the decision. You can't tell them to get rid of it. You can't, you know, coerce them. I mean, you can maybe bribe them, but what does that get you at the end of the day? You know, it's like a lot of decisions in life. You've got to,

you know, I go in and yeah, I'm happy to be the bad guy, but at the end of the day, I usually don't have to be the bad guy with kids.

Yeah.

I bring in a couple of boxes and say, here's our trash, here's our donate, here's what you can keep. We label it and I go, let's work together, you know, let's go through piece by piece and I want you to look at it. Have— is this something that you've played with for a while? Is this something that you absolutely— stuffed animals. You want to talk mugs as an attachment? Stuffed animals, except they can't be recycled, they can't be really thrown away.

That animal isn't even stuffed anymore.

Yeah, like, so, you know, they want to keep— especially girls, they want to keep those kind of things. But most kids I have found when I work with them, it's literally if you give them that thought process going in, hey, you're not really using it, somebody else can. And that puts them in a good position in a lot of ways. And it's just a good, a good thing to teach them in general because, you know, that's a good spiritual position to put a kid in. It really is.

You know, for long term.

Yeah. And that's, that's one of the greatest gifts my mother probably ever, ever taught me was that. So that's kind of how I approach it with kids. And there are some things that, you know, you may have to kind of put your foot down or as a parent, you know, just say, look, you know, at this point it's got to go. If you want to upgrade to something different, uh, an older bed set or something like that, it needs to go.

Yeah. Um, here's a question I have for you, and I, I think I know the answer, but I want, I want to hear from your perspective. When it, when it comes to kids' things, who tends to be more attached, the kid or the parent?

The parent.

That's what I thought.

The parent. I mean, it really depends. Like, if it's a girl and stuffed animals, the kid. Um, but for the most part, it can be the parents a lot of the time.

Yeah.

Um, but it does help to bring someone like me in because it's like the homework argument. Yeah, you know. I'm the mediator, the buffer. Kids are always gonna work easier with me than they are gonna work with you.

For sure, yeah.

I mean, it's just a done deal. And so when I put it kind of in that aspect, and it's an aspect of praise, you know, how wonderful that you did that. And it's kind of my thought process with that as well is just like helping adults. A lot of people are like, well, can't you just come in and do it all for me? Well, no. I didn't make this mess in the first place. A, I'm not unwinding at all for you.

It didn't get this way overnight.

I'm not unwinding at all. And, and it's B, it's your personal possessions. It's the same thing with kids, you know. You've got to, you've got to give them those tools to learn. Or parents are like, well, just go clean up your room and put things away. You didn't give them— whether they're young and they need pictures or a spot, they don't know where to put it, you know. You just tell them to go clean up their room, you know. So You've just got to give kids the tools. And I learned a long time ago as a teacher, they really do like getting involved. They like taking responsibility. And when you praise them for it, when you

don't give them rewards necessarily of, if you do this, we're gonna go get this, you know, praise them just in general, you know, like, with like, yeah, that was good.

Yeah, well done.

Well done.

That, that actually goes further For most people, not just kids, but for most people, that affirmation is way better than a gift.

Yeah. And then make them be involved in the process of, you know, taking that to a— to the church, to take it to a children's center, or taking it to a, you know, interfaith donation. Taking— get them involved in the process. Don't do it for them. And that's, that's really a big deal for kids, you know, and that's setting the groundwork for a lifetime of doing things like that. And you're not only teaching them the cleaning aspect— plenty of whiskey, sorry.

Yeah, but I had to hiccup there.

Yeah, you're teaching them the cleaning, the responsibility for their own stuff, and you're teaching them the aspect of giving and passing things forward. And then, you know, I always really work with kids when I do. I've actually done a couple of kiddos that I've helped in the last couple of months, and by the time I leave there, I really explain to them that, okay, you've done an awesome job today, and we're gonna pass this forward, and we're gonna give it to kids that can use it as well. But remember, the things that you have left here, you did— you made a conscious decision that these were very important to you.

Yeah.

If they are very important, that means you're going to take care of them. We've now given you a place to, to keep them. We've now given you, um, uh, less things to work around. Now it's your job to be responsible for these. If they end up on the floor, that's, that's, that's your problem. You did that. Um, I also tell the parents, if it continues to be an issue You ought to pull what my parents did. And I got warned about 3 or 4 times, if I keep coming in here and this room looks like a dump zone, you're not gonna have anything in this room left.

Yeah.

And they took me up on it one day. I came home and had an empty room.

Wow.

And I learned my lesson very quickly about a week after not having anything in my room except my bed and necessities. And so—

So let me ask you this, and I apologize because it is, it is very broad and generalized, but But in, in your experience, how old are kids where they can sort of grasp that concept?

They don't really have to be that— you know, I've worked with kids anywhere from 3 to 4 years old all the way up to teen. You know, they don't have to be that old. You know, kids learn love and giving and things like that And they really do learn responsibility if you teach them and give them those tools. You know, the aspect of not teaching kids in life anymore to make their life easier, it just— it's not doing any service to them. It really— and so, like—

Or really just like passing, passing the responsibility on to somebody else to teach them that. And I think there's a lot of parents that do that, that like, like, well, this is, this is, this is not my responsibility. This is what they're supposed to be learning from public education, or, you know, from their friends, or whatever. Like, it's, it's not my responsibility to teach them. It's like, no, this is— you are, you are leading your child exactly down the path that they are going, and unless you intervene, it's not going to change.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, you don't—

granted, I have not had kids yet, but But I would think that like a 2-year-old probably can't grasp this, right?

A 2-year-old can't grasp that, but they can start, you know, kind of helping you do little, little things. You know, if the, the show with Michelle Kwan, you know, she teaches kids at a young age already how to do that. People think just— and then as a teacher for years, I've worked with kids from infant all the way to teenagers. I was a Todd teacher for many years. People think that just because they're little, they don't grasp a lot of concepts. They can be extremely manipulative or smart or anything else, and they've only been on the earth 2 or 3 years. So don't underestimate them. You absolutely can start those seeds of, you know, pictures or whatever, or just give them a really

broad basket or whatever. Oh, let's go pick up, let's go put in that basket at night before—

They're mimicking Yeah, at that age. Yeah, uh, absolutely. Oh, by the way, yeah, that manipulative kid is the one who is mimicking what they see. Yeah, yeah. So like, if you, if you're like, man, my kid is really manipulative, well, maybe you should be less manipulative. Um, but like, a little bit.

Guess what? You just learned something about yourself.

That's exactly right. But like, the same is true about organization. Like, I think it's, it's, it's a lot of things. Yeah, it's like Look, you are expected to put that away. You are expected to put that where it is supposed to go. Like, that is just a— when you teach a kid that from an age of 2 or 3, then that's just the way they learn to do things.

Someday they are going to be someone's roommate, someone's husband or wife. They are going to maybe have to take care of themselves on their own. Like nobody's going to come do it for them. And so what are you doing teaching, you know, to, to not do anything for themselves? And it happens a lot, you know, but it doesn't have to be that way. You know, that's— it's, it's a, it's a thing that they need to be taught, and it's a thing that they need to learn, and they really are eager to learn it.

Yeah.

They are eager to implement those things. You just Have to give them the right tools, have to be age-appropriate tools. You know, you have to go in and, and, and when I say systems and functioning and, and when you talk about mimicking tidying, just the amount of, of adults that just throw things on the floor. I love my husband. If he's watching, I love my husband. He is very good sometimes.

It just—

There's a but coming.

Oh, there's a—

But literally, you know, the belt goes right in front of the belt hook. The shirt goes right in front of the laundry. And he's not alone in that. That's sometimes just a guy thing, or it's just a— it's just a— it's a people thing. And so kids are gonna pick up on that.

Yeah.

But give them pictures. Give them broad-range things. You have to make it age-appropriate. And then you have to hold them to that, whether it's reward jars or— there's so many ways to do it. And you have to do it with them.

Yeah. You, you mentioned this, um, earlier, and it's like one of those deals where it's like, look, you can't just tell someone go clean that if they don't know what that means, if they don't know what that looks like. So it's really good. I will tell you this though, we just hit low power mode, so we probably need to move things along because if we don't We will lose some juice.

We're almost at an hour and a half.

Wow.

Yeah.

Can you believe that?

I could talk about the subject for hours.

No, I think you're right. I mean, we could talk about this for hours for sure. I think there's all kinds of stuff that people would be interested to hear about. But we probably need to—

We need to move along. And that's not because it's not valuable, because it really is. But honestly, it's been almost an hour and a half and people are waiting. for the final four.

The final four.

Final four questions we ask each and every one of our guests, and so we're very, very excited to throw these your way.

Come.

Are you ready?

No.

All right, she's not ready, but she's gonna do it anyway.

Well, you can't not be ready. You have to be ready.

If it helps, Kevin asks all the questions.

That's because Craig doesn't remember them, so. Here we go. All right, what's the must-have tool you won't leave your house without?