Krazy Klean Permanent Toilet Stain Treatment with Founder and CEO Steve Berenson

This is episode number 308 of The Homeowner Show. Whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you with the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is Craig Williams.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show. We are so glad that you could join us for another live episode here in the studio. How you doing, Kev?

Man, it's a new year. Life's good. I don't, I mean, I'm, I'm just pumped, dude. There's so many, we got so many cool things coming up on our show coming up this year.

Yep.

I think, you know, all the, everybody's in this, like this new, it's like a whole new quarter of a century has come and like people's businesses are looking to take off. And I think that it's just a, it's a cool time. I don't know. I, I don't know. Maybe it's just me, but I feel different than, than I did a few days ago.

Few days ago?

Yeah. How about you?

A new, a new you? A new me. That'd be great.

Everybody wants that. Everybody needs a new me.

No, yeah, it, it does feel different. It, it feels, uh, there, there's like a certain amount of excitement. And I, you know, I— we talked a lot about the election and stuff that happened. I, I don't know if that has everything to do with it, But what's wrong with his hat?

No, that's the right letter.

That's the right letter. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, actually, my wife and oldest daughter are in DC right now.

Okay.

So, and they were hoping to be there for the swearing, the congressional swearing in, but they actually ended up going yesterday. And she was, she was telling me, she's like, it feels cool here right now.

Awesome.

Um, you know, and things haven't switched over, but like, there's not like, there's not just like a weird air going on and I don't even know how to describe it.

So, but yeah, I think that's, I think that's the thing is it, there, it's, it's a little bit indescribable. I don't know. Um, it'll, it'll, it's yet to play out obviously. But, um, there's a lot of excitement in the air.

Yeah.

Just to give people a heads up. I mean, uh, I got a new toy that we're gonna be reviewing, that Yamaha four-wheeler, which I'm excited about. We use that for the business, but like maybe you're in the market for a four-wheeler. I also got a new, uh, whole home generator that I'm excited to, to talk to everybody about. And, uh, yesterday I installed a, a Shark AI robot vacuum cleaner.

Oh, nice.

Um, which thus far, pretty cool.

Yeah, so we've—

that would be interesting because you did the one, the mop and all that kind of stuff. This one's just straight vacuum cleaner, but like it's AI-assisted. All right, interesting. Um, so, uh, you know, invited that Matrix nonsense into the house. That'd be interesting.

Well, I've, you know, the free— we got a little freeze coming. It's gonna be a soft freeze around here, a little bit harder up north. But, I, I, I had the issues with the well last year.

Mhmm.

If you remember. And, and I'm actually gonna make some adjustments. We'll, we'll talk about that on one of our episodes too. So, all right.

Well, should be interesting. As, as we get rolling, we got some sponsors today.

Absolutely.

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All right.

You know, I think, I think we have a lot of appliance fatigue still. I mean, you know, if they, if, if Thanksgiving didn't get 'em, Christmas got 'em.

Yeah. No kidding. I mean, they're, There's a lot of people out there going, that didn't work the way I wanted it to.

Nope, nope.

Or if it did, it doesn't anymore.

Yeah, well, and like, they've, they, our longest running sponsor now. And I, there was a post I saw yesterday of a guy that was having some brown gunk show up in every wash cycle of his washing machine.

Yuck.

And just by having them as a sponsor, I knew enough to get myself into trouble.

There you go.

And, you know, engage and give him some tips. But like, but at the same time, you know, if you're having issues with that, you know, a lot of times people's reaction is, well, just chuck it.

Right.

You know, and it's like, no, like, get it repaired. Like, if it's a piece that you like, like, usually most of those things can be fixed, you know, reasonably within a price range that, you know, it's not gonna cost as much as it would to replace it. That's right.

And, and you're not, you're not worried about, like, mismatched— mis— mis— mismatched—

there it is—

appliances. And look, it's a pain going and shopping for appliances.

Nobody likes it.

And no, you have to wait for, like, Memorial Day anyway. 'Cause otherwise it costs too much.

That's right.

So like, it's so funny, I was listening to a comedian the other day and he said, you know, as you know, the, the, um, the, the holiday came around and I realized what this holiday is all about, all the things around it. He said, this is the holiday where you buy mattresses. It's kind of the same type of thing, right? Uh, but, but it— they're expensive.

It is a—

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Yep. Or text them.

Or text them. Yeah. That's right.

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Yeah. And roofing.

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They do.

They got all of it. Which is like, that's a, a lot of people don't realize how valuable that is because a lot of times you're having to adjust your roof anyway when you put solar on the roof.

Yeah.

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Right.

Which is fine. I, I'm, I'm not— I, I agree with The reason that you— I know why that is, but the truth is, Two Texas Solar is— they don't like that either. They don't like the scams. They want to get away from that. And so they're doing things right. They're helping people out. And it's a real— Josh and his team over there, man, they're doing a great, great job. Yeah.

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Give them a call. 936-286-8325. Yes.

And thank you to our sponsors. And thank you for, you know, using our sponsors.

That's right.

That's how we get to keep doing this show.

Let them know that you heard about them.

Yeah.

on The Homeowner Show.

Maybe they'll run a special for you.

Maybe so. Who knows?

Who knows? But we have a guest we've been talking about for a while. All right. You wanna let everybody know who you are?

Steve Berenson.

Steve Berenson. So are you the CEO? Is that—

Yep. CEO.

Okay. What is the name of the company? I know the product is Crazy Clean, but—

Well, it's a division. It's a product of Crazy Clean Labs, which is owned by Berenson Partners.

Mm-hmm.

So I wanna— and there's some of that I wanna get into later. I was reading up on you. You have an interesting business history for sure. Um, but, uh, there's a little news story, and this is— and I wanted to get your take on it. Um, but, uh, this is mostly for Kevin's benefit with his, uh, longstanding love relationship with New Jersey. Oh, um, perfect. So have you guys heard about the, the education laws that they just passed in New Jersey?

No. So please enlighten me.

They have, they have removed all of the, uh, reading and mathematics requirements. Basically, you don't have to have a degree to get a teaching certificate in New Jersey anymore. And yeah, you don't even have to pass math or writing or literacy.

What do you—

so what are the requirements? That can't be.

I promise you, there's an article.

Uh, what are the requirements then?

Uh, call that fake news.

That can't be. Well, and it's— this is actually not, uh, unprecedented. Uh, states like Louisiana, you're not required to have an undergraduate degree. You can— I mean, you can, you can get a You can teach in Louisiana with a, I think it's a GED.

So, you know, my first response to that today is that might be a good thing.

It might be.

Then you can hire people who are really, you want teaching your kids versus the ones that might be force-fed to you.

Right. So there's, I'm gonna ask you a question here in a minute and I think I know the answer, but like, that's why I wanted your response to this. Kevin just hates New Jersey. No, I don't hate New Jersey.

So everybody hates New Jersey.

New Jersey is fine. But there's just, there's some not so great places in New Jersey.

Jug handles are terrible.

Yeah, jug handles are. That's why can't you turn left? All I wanna do is turn left. I gotta make 3 rights to turn left. It doesn't make any sense.

Come on, people. For that reason, I'm out.

Okay.

He got, he got in a little trouble online by making some comments about Camden.

Well, but Camden's a horrible place. It's, it's a pit.

You have to wear it like a badge of honor.

Well, there's, there's, there's people there that love it, so, and they let him know.

Yeah. I don't know how they got through 'cause I don't think they have internet. Right.

Well, so here's— I read the story and I did a little bit of research on it. And back in 2023, New Jersey was trying to address teaching shortages. They're having trouble finding teachers.

Yeah.

And so many states' responses to this is to lower the qualifications for incoming teachers. And so, but what New Jersey has done that's a little bit different is they've actually allowed these people to get certified as teachers. And this is, yeah. So anyway, and they were saying what, what was interesting about it is the union came out and said, well, these standards that we've put in place are too high of a barrier for entry.

Oh, so like actually knowing something is too high of a barrier.

Right, right.

Which again, I, I look, there are a lot of really, my, my, my brother-in-law is a, is a great case. The dude as a sophomore in high school made a 33 on his ACT. He's stinking smart. But college was not for him. Right. He's one of the smartest people I've ever met in my entire life.

Would probably be a great teacher.

Absolutely. He, he, it, he is a great teacher. He's not, that's not what he does full-time, but he's, he's stupid smart. And which is, that's an ironic statement.

Anyway. We'll roll with it.

Yeah.

He's, he's very smart. And there are plenty of people out there that college just isn't their thing, but they're, they know what they're doing.

So they're, different programs to get teachers in and then get them qualified.

Yeah.

So that they can pass. But this is a new thing where like New Jersey's like, no, we just need teachers.

Yeah. I think, I think all of this would be solved if you just pay 'em enough. You know, seriously. I mean, if you would pay teachers what they deserve, then maybe you'd get more people in there. But I mean, there's a, look, our teachers put up with a lot. I mean, yeah. You know, you send your kids, your little rugrats, 8 hours a day to school for someone else to take care of, which they're getting educated, all that kind of stuff. But they, they put up with a lot.

Yeah.

And, and they, they do a lot and they, they take care of a lot of things. You pay 'em enough and, and maybe that would change. But, um, either way, I, I, it, it does, it saddens me a little bit that they're having to re— reduce requirements just to get people in.

Well, the, the way I read the story was, is we needed to lower the requirements so that people could have access to better paying jobs. That was kind of their reasoning. So, but what I wanted to ask Steve about this, I mean, like, I was reading up on you and you obviously run several businesses now, so you've probably hired and fired quite a few people. When you've hired people, have you ever asked for their GPA?

What a great question. You know, I never asked for the GPA, but I, I did ask a math question.

Okay.

And it's a real tradition in our family.

Okay.

I learned it from my father-in-law. And every time— he founded a great retail store in New York City called Gracious Home. It was a hardware store. It's not there anymore, but it was really legendary. There's some interesting, really great stories you would appreciate around that. But when he would hire somebody, since it's a retail store and he had to handle the register. He just wanted to make sure people could do simple math.

Sure.

So whenever he was interviewing, you know, just general questions that, you know, one would ask hiring anybody, he would always ask everyone regardless of the position, what is 6 times 9? And if you couldn't answer that and he liked you, you were— if you couldn't answer that, you weren't going to work the register.

Sure, that's fair.

And maybe you weren't going to do receiving, right? But, uh, deliveries or whatever, you know. So, uh, but no, we never asked what the GPA was. And we never checked, you know, people with great resumes or graduated these schools. I didn't care, really. Uh, more important was their life and work experience.

So, wait, wait, wait, Craig, what's 6 times 9? I don't math, my wife does the math.

It's 54. Okay, keep going, keep going. It's 54, but keep going.

Yeah.

The reason I ask, there's a lot of entrepreneurs and business people that listen to this show because, I mean, that's a lot of our guests. And I know, like, there's a reason you don't ask that because you don't find it relevant to what you're doing in your business, I'd imagine, or you haven't found it to be relevant.

Well, I didn't, I never had the highest, I understood what school was, what college was, but I never, it didn't transfer. It was to, it's an accomplishment that, those who graduate and get a degree at any level can, you know, have that accomplishment and what comes with it, right? But as far as what we're doing in any job, in any business, it's not that important.

Right.

You know, you could, you know, like you said, you can be, you know, you cannot go to college and be brilliant, or you can come out of school. And especially today, you know, my opinion of the universities today is, as it was, I didn't want my kids to go to college anyway. And my wife was always upset with that. I wanted them to come to work with us.

Sure, yeah.

And get and start learning real life, you know. They, you know, my wife won and they all went to school. But the universities today are horrible, in my opinion, for what they've, you know, been, you know, doing to— what their agenda has been with, you know, their students and I would say the country at large.

You know, so I, I don't disagree with that at all.

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's one of those deals where, what, what, what we've found to be true is that if you are a person who is, oh, who likes to learn, you can do anything. I mean, really. I mean, because most jobs that you go to, they're gonna train you to do what they want you to do, how they want you to do it. It does not matter what you knew previously.

You know, I had a problem with an amp, a, a, a receiver. Excuse me. And, um, you know, I was not— I'm not, you know, I grew up with Radio Shack, but I didn't, you know, like, uh, become a, you know, electronic, you know, technician. But I turned on YouTube, I said, you know, I gotta be able to fix this.

Yeah, yeah.

And I just took off the hood and I fixed it.

Oh, really?

You know, I learned, you know, what the problem was right on YouTube. Figured it out. So, you know, you, you really don't— you really can learn easy. Yeah, anything you want to do today in, in greater detail, you know, and depth than you could ever before.

There's a reason they call it YouTube University. Yeah, that's right. You know, I, and honestly, like, more people go to learn there than they— yeah, and probably learn better things than they do going to a university.

Yeah, because they're learning, you know, even, you know, listening to you guys, that people learn— they should trust you more than they might trust, you know, certainly a commercial on TV or, you know, a, uh, Anybody on HGTV, honestly. Well, I don't want to bet.

We're gonna take those guys down.

You know, I shouldn't say that. I shouldn't say anyone on TV, right? But any, you know, I don't know. We're changing who we trust in our culture, you know, who the authorities are.

Yeah.

And so, you know, folks like yourself are becoming more trusted authorities than your traditional newspaper or whatever promotions that are happening.

Well, I mean, if we learned anything, if we learned nothing else from this last election cycle, that that is absolutely true. The dynamics of authority in media have dramatically shifted.

Thank God.

Oh yeah, and like, you know, these institutions that have been up for years that have been controlling the narrative, and you can think that it's a good narrative or a bad narrative, but they've been controlling the narrative.

I don't see how you could think it's a good narrative. So it doesn't matter where you fall politically, you know, I don't understand, you know, certain things that have been happening for the last, you know, 4 years.

Yeah.

So, or however many. So I don't know, I don't— that's the— that's become a thing. It wasn't like that for us growing up. It is now. Yeah. And I'm worried about the grandkids, you know.

Well, I think that— I think that things have changed so much with technology that, that everything is more available. So people's lives are more available, um, you know, that when when you were growing up, you know, you didn't have, you couldn't just, you know, go online the next day and, and learn everything about everything that happened 20 minutes ago. You know, now that's possible. And so I, I think that, like you said, the trust signals are very, very different in, in our life. And social media changes everything and podcasts and other news outlets that, that people couldn't get to CNN or Fox or whatever. Now you can be your own news outlet and you can, you can present the truth as, as you see it.

And so it's a very different world.

That changes the subject a little to the effect that technology is having on us personally and all, all that impacts. But the, the subject of, you know, uh, what's happening politically, right, where the narrative of the media is what's changed is when we were kids, all of those initiatives, you know, that were aspirational and virtuous, right? Civil rights or, you know, other expansion of liberties and fairness.

Mm-hmm.

And mobility in society. took a lot of work and investment and effort. And now, but what I feel has happened now is that there's a point of diminishing returns. And now it's not, it's become deconstructionalist. That the effort and all the efforts and money and politics are the engines for that.

Mm-hmm.

So in the '60s and '70s, all of this organization and money came into, you know, strive for, to make the world a better place, education, economics, all in every way. And now we're— after accomplishing a lot of that, these organizations have become machines and they have to keep feeding itself. And it's become— it's come to way past the point of diminishing returns. Now I consider the parties on the verge of deconstructionists, you know, not Democrats, deconstructionists, not Republicans, you know.

Yeah, because you have so many different terms even within those structures.

Yeah.

Right? I mean, because like liberal means something different than Democrat. Yeah.

There's no liberal. The Democratic Party is not liberal anymore. It's leftist. You know, it's being influenced by the left. So, and then that's just un-American in my opinion. So we have to— as long as you can have a liberal point of view or a conservative point of view, if we are still building something together.

Yeah.

We could disagree, but we're not deconstructing the pillars of the American way and the American lifestyle. That's unacceptable.

Yeah.

So we're not building anymore, we're deconstructing. We have to get back to building together. Even if we disagree on the extent, we have to agree in principle, you know, public safety is valuable.

Yeah. Well, I mean, not to be like too heady on this, but like, I mean, because I think you bring up something that I've been talking about for a long time, which is, you know, I think we're seeing the back end of teaching postmodernity philosophy in schools, you know, which is like that there is no truth, that you have your own truth, you know, rather where modernity was like, you know, for its faults, said that, you know, we could learn things, we could build things, we could understand things. Postmodernity tells us like there is no structure, you know, that there is no truth, that, you know, that truth is found within, and all these kinds of,

you know, in my opinion, nonsense ideas. There was aspects of it that I thought were really good where like we did have to like sort of you know, deconstruct ideas, but like, as long as we were coming back and saying like, that's a good idea, that's a bad idea, instead of all ideas are good, all ideas work.

Well, yeah, you can deconstruct ideas while you're constructing something.

Yes.

Right? But we can argue and debate that. But, you know, this kind of comes to— you can make the case strictly on the move to remove God from the society, remove God from the classroom.

Right.

the teachings of religions, you know. And there, that's a complicated thing because, I mean, it's very complicated. And there's, uh, there has to be, uh, liberty, you know, to and from. Like, you don't have to observe or be a religious person.

Sure.

But you also can't, um, excommunicate from the culture those that equally want to be.

Right.

So, uh, this is a point where it's gone to this such extents where it's— and you can make a case, a very strong case in front of any jury that that process coincides with what we're experiencing today. Can I share one little—

Oh yeah, please.

And I'm sorry if— just do this if I'm going on.

No, carry on.

But I read a book in the '80s called Closing of the American Mind. It's one of the best books I ever read.

Who wrote that? Do you remember?

That was Allan Bloom.

Okay.

He was from the University of Chicago. And he makes this whole case about education and everything, but he makes such a prescient argument that goes as follows, that the American dream is misinterpreted as, we're all equal, everyone's equal. And what was happening in the universities, they're stripping away, they were trying to strip away the things that made us different. And we'll just focus on what makes us, you know, just homogenize everybody that comes to this country, and we'll focus on that, separate ourselves from the things that make us different. Well, his argument was, as a philosopher, is that, well, the mechanisms by which we teach children morals and ethics are from your cultural traditions.

Right.

They're not from school. We didn't create school to teach, you know—

Morals and ethics, yeah.

Morals and ethics per se. That you get from your culture and your traditions. If you were going to systematically separate our children from their cultures and traditions, eventually the moral and ethics will be the law.

Right.

And that turns into a moral of— that will turn into, he predicted, a moral of what you can get away with.

Yeah.

And that's going to be your morality in this country if you go along this cancel culture, homogenous, you know, if you don't celebrate our differences and you separate us from our traditions and our heritage.

Right.

you're going to separate ourselves, the things that provide morality and ethics, and you're left with a legal moral, which is the lowest level of society. And then, well, whatever I can get away with, that's okay, you know? That's not okay.

Yeah. I mean, it also creates a dispassionate culture, right? Where, like, rather than, what can I do to make my community better? To your point, what do I have to do in order to avoid penalty and, right, you know, all those kinds of things.

Well, I think which we're seeing today in the social aspect of life too, because I just have to accept you for who you are rather than try to learn who you are and understand who you are and try to figure out how I fit into that or disagree with it. But instead, it's like this whole you do you thought is, no, I don't, I don't have to know anything about you because you are okay just the way you are. I'm okay with that. You're okay with just the way you are, as long as it is I'm learning that and I'm understanding how we all fit together. And, and, and this— what you're talking about deconstructing, we see it everywhere. But I think what's happening, and to your point, Craig, of, of it like

moving past this postmodern era, is people are tired of that. They're tired of this, this idea of, wait, I don't get to be someone? I can just be me without having to fit into anything else. Now I'm lonely. Now I'm, I'm separated.

I'm—

You're in the abyss.

That's exactly right. And I don't like that. I don't feel comfortable here. No one wants to do that. They want to be in community with other people. And so there, there, it's just, it's this weird turmoil that we find ourselves in and somewhere it's going to have to change. And I think, I think like you said, it's starting to come around.

Yeah. It's the pendulum swinging back.

Yes.

You know, it has to be. I mean, I really think— I mean, the way I express what's happened in the last year is, you know, miraculous. Like, we're seeing— I think these are miracles. I mean, at some level you could say just being alive is a miracle, right? But in a broader context or in a more specific way, you know, yeah, the pendulum is swinging backwards and it's necessary to preserve the American way.

Right.

That's what we're focused on.

Yeah.

You know, in the larger context, maybe the American liberty that we understand can't survive globalization because if we, you know, Americans don't necessarily by nature, we don't have to be on the grid. I don't have to be plugged in so you know where I am at all times.

Yeah.

Our privacy and our liberty are number one, and that will become a threat to a government that can't know what you're doing, where you are, you're just going to be labeled a threat.

Yeah.

So how, how do we create a modern American liberty that is connected to the, you know, the DNA of this great, you know, uh, country?

Well, I mean, there's, there's a big reason that you're seeing social platforms growing like wildfire that are focusing on things like making sourdough or homesteading and having chickens, and like all the things, and so like growing your own independence away from this thing that we, you know, a lot of us have to live within. So, and I do think that there's a certain amount of growing reactionary life that's happening in our culture right now. I mean, there's a reason I think that you're seeing a lot of Americans return to orthodoxy even though they may not necessarily believe in God. Like, they like— sure, you know, they like that. Um, and, you know, like, you look at guys

like Jordan Peterson. I mean, this guy's doing, you know, hours and hours and hours with intellectuals sitting around a round table talking about the Gospels, and he's not even necessarily saying that he believes in God. Like, he almost refuses to say outright whether or not he does. But, like, people are tuning in to understand what's happening in that conversation.

First of all, I think says that he does.

He's kind of gone back and forth. I mean, the way he says it is, I try and live in such a way as if that were true.

Right. Well, he's a—

Yeah, and I understand why he's saying it that way.

Yeah, it's very philosophical.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because there are schools of philosophy that will say that they can't be sure the sun's gonna rise tomorrow.

Right.

At that level, it's insanity.

Yes.

I think it's very difficult to have a satisfied mind I know.

Yeah.

What? And it's also difficult to reason with those people. I mean, you know what I mean?

It's like nailing Jell-O to the wall.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because at some point, at some point you got to look at life and go, okay, I— what?

Right.

I'm not gonna go there because I don't have time for that.

I'll be up at sunrise working.

You do you. I'm gonna be out there with the sun.

Right, exactly. That's where you do you actually does come into play. It's like, I don't think I can understand anymore.

But like, listen, to a certain degree, I'm perfectly fine with people like that existing because I'm going to beat them.

Sure. Like, easily.

Competitively, yes.

Yes.

Right, yeah. So, 'cause I'm willing to operate in a certain amount of faith that they're not. So anyway.

Yeah, well, I—

I love talking about this stuff. No, I do too.

And I think we could go down this road for a long time, but I think it all plays into, Steve, you being on the show today because Craig actually just, you know, as we were talking before the show started, we, our feeds kind of show up with homeowner show types these days.

We've curated it. We have.

And, and we, Craig came across your product Crazy Clean and we just reached out and said, hey, we'd love to try this. And, and you were gracious enough to, to, to send us a sample and I want to bring you on and let's talk about that because business is really the backbone of America, the ability for commerce to exist.

Small business.

Small business, yes. For commerce to exist and for us to be able to create and build and grow our own thing, whatever that is. So what I'd like to do is I'd like for you to tell me a little bit about you, how you started. I actually, uh, I have a video of, of how this began for me. And, uh, so we'll show that at some point. And then I've got a post review as well, and we'll kind of go with that. So talk to us about where, where this started, who you are, like where this started, you know, the, the crazy idea maybe behind Crazy Clean and all those sorts of things.

Wow, that's a long time ago. Um, well, I, I basically would say I, I grew up in the business, you know. We were— I grew up in New York.

Okay.

And I met my wife in high school. And as a kid, I worked with my dad, and I used to go into the city and work with him. I started working when I was 8, so I just learned and was exposed to business, you know, small business at an early age. And then I met my wife in high school, and I was going to propose to her in 12th grade, but I knew her her parents wouldn't let her say yes, but I told her. And then she went to Michigan, I went to Northeastern, then we transferred to finish together.

Okay.

We got married in college, but her dad had found— had created this great business retail in New York. And I had an opportunity. We had moved to Miami, they had moved to Miami, so we opened— we ended up opening a hardware store, a True Value hardware store. in Miami.

Okay.

And I dropped out.

What year was that?

That was '82. Okay.

Yeah.

Wow. So we dropped out of college and then Diana would go to school and then come to the store and then we would just, you know, be shopkeepers in the hardware store. And then we, you know, that was our daily life. And then we built this, but then other business developments start to happen, product development. My father-in-law is like this, you know, To me, he's like Yoda.

Okay.

Right? He's just this incredibly, you know, this crazy intelligent person. Like your brother, right?

Brother-in-law, yes, sir.

Your brother-in-law. And, uh, he was just this incred— old-time business guy, you know. And, uh, you know, I learned so much. So we got into all these, you know, uh, business, uh, opportunities, and we started to do them. And, you know, whether it was, uh, we, we were— we, we accomplished certain things. and built some product lines and brands and started really just focusing on selling them locally in the Northeast. And mostly with True Value. That was our— like, our True Value was very influential in my life and teaching me the values of business. Hardware I loved. My father was in the garment center business.

Okay.

And I didn't like it because it was so full of crap, BS.

You mean the products themselves or—

Everybody. It's a fashion business.

Okay.

So there's so much BS going on and I was just you know, I was a kid, so I, I didn't have any, you know, say or anything. But I noticed that, you know, this is, you know, kind of BS versus, you know, my football coach. You know, there was— I like that better than I did, you know, the, the fashion business. And hardware has a great culture, completely opposite of fashion.

Yeah.

I'm not bashing fashion. I mean, I sound like I am. For me, it wasn't good. It fit. Hardware was great. Solving problems, being straight, no BS. And so we did, I just got into developing product lines for hardware and housewares. And we did that for many years. And I'll tell one story real quick, just as a, on behalf of my father-in-law, just to demonstrate how amazing a man he was and he is. He is.

He is.

But the businesses that he had. We were— we had created this picture hanging line called Hook, O-O-K Picture Hangers.

Okay.

And it's that one with a little blue steel nail. It doesn't, you know, damage your walls, and you'll recognize it if you see it. But we were selling True Value and Ace, and then we sold Home Depot. And we were doing so well in Home Depot, they had a national meeting and they brought us in to, uh, one of the buyers brought us in there at the last minute to the whole national meeting so the whole company would see us, like 30 people in there. So I didn't know what I was doing really. And I went in there with an assistant that I brought. And even my family, they said, why are you even going to this? Because it's just

picture hangers, right? So anyway, I go up there and I'm in this meeting and it was belligerent. People were just attacking me. And I finally got fed up with it.

Mm-hmm.

And this one older guy starts saying, asked me a question that was inappropriate. And I said, it's really none of your business. You know, that's just none of your business. Like, what do I pay my salesman, or what do I pay for rent in my warehouse?

Right.

You know, if you don't like salesmen, that's— I'm— I defend the salesmen.

Sure.

And it's none of your business what I pay for my mortgage, right? My rent. So anyway, he said, you know, can you do me a favor? Step outside. So I go, sure. But he wasn't coming with me. I took my sister and we went outside. And when I get outside, I go, I tell her, listen, I don't want you to be upset, but we're going to get kicked out of here now.

Yeah.

That's what's coming. So just, it, you know, when you go trying to sell picture hooks, you get kicked out of a lot. No one wants to talk to you, right? It's true. It's not personal. Mostly it's not personal.

Mostly it's not personal.

Sometimes maybe. So, yeah, so we go inside, and as soon as they open the door to let us back in, the whole room, there's at least 30 people there, Give me an O, give me an O, give me a K. What's that spell? Look, the brand that we were selling.

Yeah.

I, honest to God, I'm glad this is my testimony for the ether that I thought it was a Twilight Zone episode.

Yeah.

I really thought it was—

Well, you thought you were done.

Yeah, I thought I was done. And now I go, what is going on here? He goes, well, we made a deal. I go, What deal? I didn't even give you pricing.

Yeah, yeah.

What are you talking about? No, no, we, we're going to work out the pricing. We want to bring your line, these, these items into all the stores. So, wow, that's great, you know? Okay. So then, um, we start packing up and I walk over to this woman that was next to the— this older guy and I go, you know, hi, I'm sorry, but can you tell me who this guy is? And she goes, oh, this, this is Pat Farah. I go, Pat Farah, that rings a bell. She goes, yeah, he's one of the founders.

Oh gosh.

So I go, oh my God, I was just fighting with this guy. He kicked me out of here. I go, I gotta apologize to him. No, no, no, he really loved that you were fighting with him. It was great that you have the passion and you were defending, you had character, right? You had conviction. He liked that.

I was gonna ask you, I mean, it sounded like he was testing to see if you had any chutzpah.

Yeah, well, I did enough and he You know, she told me not to apologize to him. So I go, well, why did he ask us to leave the room? He goes, well, he wanted to let everyone know that we were from the family that founded Grace's Home, the store, my father-in-law's store.

Wow.

Because they send all their buyers to go to New York to see that store.

Oh, really?

Wow.

Now, what higher praise can you have in the world from the founder of Home Depot selecting that store to help to show buyers what they can do in hardware?

Yeah.

Wow. Right? I can't tell that story to anybody. No one cares or even can understand the context, frame of reference.

Yeah.

So it's just such an amazing thing. So I was just blown away by that. And it just says all— that's enough to let you know how tremendous my father-in-law is. I'm really grateful for all that I learned from him. But anyway, that's who I worked with basically my whole life. One time regarding the Crazy Clean, we were in the office and we bought all our used packaging machineries from a plumbing company. We were in Miami and he was selling the plumbing company, but he had just developed this new cartridge for plumbers.

Your father-in-law?

No, no, the supplier.

Oh, the supplier.

Okay.

He was a plumbing engineer.

Okay.

sold his plumbing company but didn't sell this new product, which was at the time a small cartridge that he gave for plumbers to prevent scaling wherever they worked, where he wanted— they wanted to just prevent scaling in wherever, what area they were working in. So my father-in-law called me in and asked me, what do I think of this? And I said, well, we're in retail consumer products. We're not in the plumbing business, but I started looking at it and thinking about it, I realized, well, in the discipline of marketing, you know, which my school is like recent trout, which is something we could talk about, but narrowing the focus, let's say, I realized if you put that in a toilet tank, theoretically, it would prevent the water

that came into the tank from staining the tank and the bowl. According to the plumber, that's what he was presenting. So I said, well, under that basis, um, I'll do it. And he said, yeah, okay. Then my father-in-law agreed and we started to develop it. And we couldn't— we really couldn't sell it because a Tidy Bowl was 89 cents retail.

Oh yeah.

When we're, we're offering a solution to keep your toilet from staining and people are using 89-cent Tidy Bowl— and this was, you know, $5 for $10 retail at the time. So, but we had friends from our other business in the department stores around the country, and they— I was talking to one of them. They were on the buying team for the new Joan Rivers show that she started, Can We Shop? And QVC was her partner. So they said, yeah, we'll present it at the committee. And I said, well, all right, you know, whatever. You know, I really forgot about it. And then I get a call that it's Joan Rivers loved it because she's nuts about her dogs,

fearful going into and having to use the blue chemicals. So, uh, she— they want to put you on the air and bring you on to Joan Rivers' Can We Shop? Then we went on there and we became the 2nd best-selling item on the show.

Oh, wow. And, uh, it was called something different then though, wasn't it?

It was called Toilet Clean.

Toilet Clean, okay.

And my father-in-law, after— and at the end, she invites up my father-in-law to drink from the toilet water.

Oh.

Drink from the toilet, which he did because it doesn't— it adds nothing, takes nothing away. There was a new toilet, you know, we had 2 new toilets as props there. And so, but we just took the tap water and he drank it. So that night, or the next night, Jay Leno made a joke about it on The Tonight Show.

Oh, there you go. That's all you need right there.

Yeah.

But anyway, QVC saw it, they wanted to have an exclusive. Then we ran on QVC for 10 years. And then QVC, one of the new CEOs came about and he was, uh, like an engineer and he took many things off the air. This is what I understand, you know, I didn't investigate it because he took our product off the air because we couldn't have third-party, uh, testing that showed how magnets prevented minerals from staining.

Oh.

And there was a contract and the FCC was being very, you know, very, uh, on top of QVC. So they just you know, we were one of those easy things they could take off in, in, in dealing with the FCC.

They were trying to appease them.

Yeah, they were trying to. So what happened was a few years later, we— I ran into somebody who was from the food business, food safety, who knew all these companies around the, the states that test for these things. And I was talking to him, he said, uh, well, no, I know companies that have, that have, uh, diagnostics today that I think can do that. And then we sent it to them. It was in western PA, Pittsburgh area, and they tested it and, you know, were able to show and demonstrate how the magnetic field damages the, let's say, the outer electron ring of minerals and that they won't scale anymore. You know, it doesn't eliminate minerals, it prevents them from scaling.

Right.

So even if you leave the toilet sedentary, Minerals, depending on the pipe, the line of water coming in, and we get more into detail about this, but it disables them from being able to hard scale. That's what a magnetic field does. It's not a question of if it works or not, it's a question if it works for you in your toilet.

Okay.

And then there are remedies in case there's a higher load or high concentration of minerals, what we have to do to mitigate that. But in essence, that was the launch and then we reinvent— we wanted to make it stronger. and, uh, change it so that it can have more area of influence in the toilet, right, by its design. And then we came up with this Crazy Clean, and then COVID hit, so we kind of put that on the back burner. And then when COVID started to clear, we launched it, and it's been doing really, really well, you know. But mostly because people are ready for, you know, like they want to go grow their own food, you know, and start opting, opting out of the previous 70 years of the, um, you

know, the type of business or, or, uh, lifestyle we've been living, used through technology, chemistry, and all that stuff. But, uh, so there, all you have to— if you opt out of your bleach or your, your toilet bowl cleaner, uh, you can opt into a way that with very little or no work, or even just a little work, you know, once a month, uh, you don't need any chemicals. And with one tissue, you can, you know, keep your toilet clean. It will never stain.

Mm-hmm.

And it really will— we warranty it for 10 years, but there's a version that is warrantied for lifetime. And in fact, even the one that's warrantied for 10 years, we could, you know, it could last a lifetime if you don't have an abuse of, you know, really bad water, you know.

So there's a different product other than this one that we have on the table that's lifetime?

We're coming out next. That's like some of the things coming down the pike. We decided it's more expensive, right? Because it's stronger, but it's been so well received, and some people have asked about that, you know. And, uh, so we're just going to make it available.

Wow. So I, I want to, I want to go back a little bit to— what was it, '92 when you went on Joan Rivers?

Yeah.

So what was, uh, what was the decision? Because I think you guys ended up making like your mom like the spokes—

Oh, that's—

Or the face of the, the company, or—

Well, you've done your homework.

What was—

I mean, no, it was—

You didn't look up my SAT score.

No, no, no.

Oh, I have connections, not those good of connections.

I'm sure, yeah.

So I mean, like, what was— because she ended up going on your show, right?

Yeah, that was, you know, Diana will tell you, like, gosh. So we— me, I went on myself and my father-in-law the first time.

Okay.

And it did so well, I get a call from the show. And, you know, I don't tell these stories, so it tickles, you know. My mom's gone, God bless her, but it's a fun story to remember. And the show tells me, you know, we want to put Joan— we were the first product that we're going to run a second time, you know.

Wow.

Toilet bowl cleaner, right? So I don't know. Anyway, I go, come on, you know, yeah, we do. So, but we don't— we can't run the same thing again. We got to do something new. So the committee was talking like, can we talk to some people with testimonials, you know, and do testimonials? Well, I go, It's brand new.

Yeah.

You're the first people selling it, you know. I go, well, I have any— well, my mom has tested it. She lives in Queens, you know, like, she could be a test. Technically, she has used it for, you know, probably a year when we started developing it.

Yeah.

She goes— so then a little pause and the girl goes, can we talk to your mom? And my first answer was, absolutely not. You know, under no circumstances. be out of business immediately. And I thought about it. I go, you know what? My mom, she grew up with that. She's gonna love Joan Rivers. It'll be— she'll be so tickled if this show calls.

Yeah.

And says, you know, hey, you want to be— and, you know, my mom's not going to want to do it.

Right.

So like 2 weeks go by. I'm in Miami. I get a call. And my wife and I, we've worked together our whole life. And, you know, Your mom's been booked to come on the show.

Like, have they talked to her, or they just booked her and hadn't told you?

Oh no, they talked to her.

They talked to her. Okay.

They had several calls I knew nothing about, and they booked her on the show. And I was like, are you kidding me? You want to know what? You want to know why? How am I going to tell my family, my in-laws, my, my wife?

Yeah.

Because they're cured business people. Like, they're not— no one would choose my mom to go on and be a, you know, a spokesperson. Like, she's— she was a housekeeper, right? She was a homemaker. Uh, wow.

But maybe—

She went on. She went on. She was, she was like— she went on the air and she was a smash hit. And she, she— the best way I could say, she was like the mother in Everybody Loves Raymond.

Oh, okay.

You know, and she came out and she was, uh, really hitting it off with Joan, but being herself, you know, with these phrases. You know, the— just, you know, and then Joan Rivers, why should we believe you? You know?

Are you sure?

And my mom's like, you know, because that would be false advertising. You know, what do you mean why?

Yeah.

I wouldn't be here saying— like, because she's an older generation.

Yeah.

You know, the greatest generation.

Yeah.

So, uh—

What I say, what I say is my word.

100%.

Yeah.

I wouldn't be here, right? And neither would my son if she didn't let you know.

I wouldn't let him be here.

Exactly.

She was ready to throw with Joan.

Yes. I mean, she was nurturing, barely, right? She was a nurturing person, but she was tough.

Yeah.

So, um, anyway, you know, she says, she says it's great, and the thing did great, and it was really a blast. And then what we ended up doing was we put in those, those products, and we made a sticker, like, because it was 5 years warranty, and we had my mom's picture on it, replaced in 20— whatever, you know, 19, you know, '97.

Yeah, I saw some of the print ads online. I mean, they look great.

Yeah. It's really phenomenal. It's an amazing story. And at the time when we decided, you know, I didn't have any great expectations. It would just be a useful product for folks in the early '90s that were environmentally conscious and concerned. I got you. It was a thing, right? But we did some, you know, very low-level focus groups, and one woman said, Listen, I don't care if it's good for the environment. If it's not strong enough to kill a tree, I'm not interested. I want my toilet clean.

Yeah.

Shouldn't care about the tree.

Sure.

Interesting.

Right? And so that was then, and it was just amazing to discover that the toilet bowl thing was such a— The market was so responsive to it. Consumers are so responsive to it. And you never knew that. It's really a job everyone hates to do. They argue over doing it. They're embarrassed for this or that. So many aspects of it. Bless you.

Thank you.

And are just a very, very interesting case study on behavior science, right, in general. But yeah, that's basically how my mom got involved with it. It was just crazy. She, she did great.

And so then what, what caused the name change? Because it was Toilet Clean and now it's Crazy Clean.

Okay, I'm glad you asked, right? Uh, you, you know, I know you have a talent and interest in marketing, right? A skill and whatever.

I've been told I'm okay at it.

Yeah, well, I'm sure you are. Um, I mean, got me here, right? So, so I, um, originally When I was, uh, I dropped out of college when I got married, and I always felt I had an inferiority complex that everybody I'm competing against knows more than me.

Hmm.

So I would just study on my own. And when I was studying marketing, there were so many, uh, a broad spectrum of opinions that, you know, the best of the best nullified each other. You know, it's like in advertising, more copy sells more, less copy sells more.

Yeah.

Copy.

Right, right.

More words sell more, less words sell more. More pictures worth— anyway, I had settled in on these 2 called Ries and Trout. They wrote the book Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind.

Okay.

It's a must-read for everyone on Earth. You know, it's translated into so many languages, but it is the last great work that even today all of communication is built on, you know, advertising, marketing. And so I just like wanted, if I wanted to have, you know, well, Texas Rangers weren't a team back then, but, you know, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays's autograph, you know, I would write to the team and say, hey, I want this autograph. I was like that, you know, when I read the book and then we create— this came and I was working on it, I go, wow. They had come out with a book called The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing.

Mm-hmm.

So I was like, Wow, this checks all the boxes. So I go, I wanted to call them and say, you know, thank you.

Yeah.

You know, and I did. And I asked, you know, is there any way I can— I didn't know what to name it. So I go, is there any way I can have a conversation, you know, with either Al, you know, or Al Reese or Jack Trout? And I got a fax the next day with a quote of what it would cost. Right? It was like $10,000. You know, I didn't have the money. Right?

Sure.

So I said, What would it cost to talk for a cup of coffee?

Yeah.

Right? And I get a call and it's Jack Trout on the phone. And I'm on the phone with Jack Trout and I can't believe it.

Wow.

He goes, are you gonna be in New York soon? Yes. Yeah.

That I can figure out.

Yeah. So, yeah, we're gonna— why don't you come up, you know, when? I go, you know, I look like, how about Friday? You know, or next Monday, whatever. But it was like 2 days later. He said, yeah, come up to our Connecticut office. and we'll talk, we'll see, don't worry about the money.

Hmm.

So I go to the office and we're just talking, I'm telling him how it happened and all this, and, you know, it's Al Ries and Jack Trout, and we're talking, and I see Al's not doing a lot of talking, but he's just, you know, I don't know what he's doing, but he's scribbling something. Then I finish and Al just takes off and gives me these pages, and he has named it Toilet Clean, chem-free, toilet clean, and a whole branding idea of what it should look like. And they said, here, good luck, after 4 hours. Wow.

4 hours?

And didn't charge me a penny.

Wow.

That's crazy.

So I was like, I have to pay you. We pay our way. And they said, no, no, just good luck. Let us know. So a few months later, they're doing this book tour where they're on all the radio stations. And I was invited on to Can We Shop with Joan Rivers, and I wasn't sure how to package it or whatever to do, and I called them and I said, you know, can I have a, you know, a second cup of coffee? Well, you know, we're doing this radio thing, why don't you come up into the studio? And then I went up and they escorted me in while they were on the radio, and like this whole entourage in there, and I'm I'm

in the studio with them. They're treating me like their kid, you know, and it was really special. And, um, you know, then, then, then they gave me some ideas on how I should, how I should do it, and we went on and we were very successful, right? So now here we are all these years later, and that's just such a thrill for me that really it was, you know, have their input.

Are those guys still around?

Jack passed away a few years ago.

Okay.

But Al's still around. So in 2019, when I was getting ready to recreate this, repurpose it, I said, hey, Al did it the first time. And I know he's in business with his daughter, Laura Reese, in Atlanta. I go, why don't I— let me see, let me give him a call. Come on up. He remembered me.

That's awesome.

Wow. We were talking 30 years later.

Yeah, that's incredible.

So I go up there. Now the daughter's involved, so she runs a business, so this time I paid. But God bless her, but she gave me a really good discount. And they made a— I went up to Atlanta. Now Al was 94 at the time.

Oh, wow.

And they made a full presentation for me to me as if I was, you know, Clorox. The whole thing. And then we settle down and he makes his reveal on what he thinks we should call it. And he comes up with Crazy Clean. And at the time I had a similar, I can't go home and tell my family it's Crazy Clean. They're gonna think like it's As Seen on TV, you know, like—

Right.

You know, Ron Popeil or whatever, you know, like, uh, I didn't— and I told him, I go, you know, I'm agnostic in that area. Like, I'm gonna take I don't know what's going to be a good name.

Yeah.

And I don't even care if I like it or not, but that's going to be hard to sell and I got to let you know. And he said, listen, there is no second choice for this. I'm not giving you an alternative. This is what I want to name it. So I said, that's what I'm doing then, because I'm willing to have this thing fail out of respect for you. If you wanted that, my loyalty to you.

Sure.

I'm gonna go with it, and if it fails, then I won't second-guess it.

Wow.

That's how much I trust Al Ries and Laura Ries. So I went ahead and I got the predictable response, Crazy Clean? Really? That's it? Not Farfugnugen? But we went out and it turned out to be really the right name. So Al passed away shortly thereafter, within a year.

Really?

So it was kind of like his last job.

Wow.

You know, which— or, you know, I'm sure it wasn't, but I was in the group of the last work he was doing.

Sure.

And, uh, he's a hero of mine, you know. So I'm really, really honored to have had that experience. And that is, uh—

It's his baby.

Yeah, his name should be on it.

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's great. Um, I— if people haven't seen, I'll, uh, I'll show in this camera over here. This is what it looks like. And actually—

Well, that's the packaging.

That's the packaging.

Yeah, it's packaging. Yeah, packaging is great.

Now, we have had people who bought it and put the tube in the toilet.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

Oh, no, no. There's actually something inside this tube. You open it up and there's a— there's something. And I actually—

You can open it when I—

when I put it in. Do you have a knife on you, Craig?

Always.

I'll let you open it. Let's take it out and look at it. I actually did a little video review whenever we first got the product in my house of me opening it up and kind of doing a reveal and then putting it into the toilet. And I basically said, look, we'll see. We'll see what's going on.

That's all you can do because there's no color. So the downside is people are used to seeing something working.

Yeah, there's no— it's not like it doesn't turn the water green or blue.

After that moment you drop it in, Like, there's no more, like, reinforcement feedback that it— you know, now you're like, yeah, you don't have that. That's one of the weak parts of the, of the item that people use.

Well, you'll see, you'll see whenever I put— drop it into the toilet bowl, you'll see that it just kind of, um, just kind of settles in.

Yeah.

And honestly, what was really cool about it is I didn't even have to reposition it. It kind of— I don't know if it had a homing signal or what, but it just kind of went to the corner.

No, that's why we designed it that way. Yeah, they changed the design with that spout so it would settle down.

Yeah, no, it was absolutely perfect.

By the way, have y'all ever heard the Howie Mandel bit about the blue water in the toilet?

No.

No.

So where he's staying at a hotel and he goes to the front desk and they ask him how his stay was and he says, the stay was great, but the blue water at your hotel doesn't taste as good as the one at the other one.

Which is so funny coming from him because he's such a germaphobe.

I think it was like a, I think it was like a Ritz-Carlton or something. Like those guys just have to like, just like roll with it and be like, well, I'm sorry, sir. Or you might even, it may have been him making a phone call. It's like the blue water doesn't taste as good as it did last time. Could, but yes, sir, we'll send somebody right up to—

That's so good.

Right.

That's so good. All right, open that sucker up.

Yeah, we're getting there.

Yeah. And, and by the way, we're gonna, uh, we're, we're gonna give some of these away and we'll, we'll talk about that, uh, in a little bit. There we go. All right.

Ta-da!

There it is.

Yes, sir.

So that, that, that's the product. I'm gonna play the clip here and, and we'll, we'll go from there. So let's see what it says. All right. I'm here in my bathroom with a new product that we're going to be testing out. The product here is called Crazy Clean, and I just got this in the mail.

Crazy Clean. And, uh, we're gonna open it up, see what's going on.

So we live on some land that has a well, and our water is really hard. Uh, the water is actually really good, but it's very hard. And so because of that, I'm going to show you what our toilet looks like. We clean our toilet every week, but it doesn't really matter how hard we clean it and how often we clean it, we still have these toilet bowl stains. So here we are. So yeah, this toilet's clean. We just have these stains in here that are kind of in here all the time. Maybe you understand what we mean. But we're gonna find out how Crazy Clean makes everything different. I went ahead and opened it, but let's see what's inside. All right, they sent us 4— 2

for me, 2 for Craig— and it says that this permanently prevents water stains for 10 years. On the back here, it tells us all we gotta do is lift the toilet tank cover and drop it in. Made up of just magnets and this Bakdomein casing, whatever that is, not sure. 10-year warranty. Alright, so we're gonna open this thing up, see what's inside. Alright.

Okay.

It's not too large.

Okay, it's in a bag.

That's it. All right, and it says we just drop it in here.

There it is.

And I guess we'll leave it in there for 10 years. So we'll see what that looks like. All right. So that, that's it.

So now tune in 10 years from now.

That's right. Well, I, so, so in, in a minute, I'll, I'll show you the, the follow-up because just yesterday I, I took another video. But we, we put it in 2 different toilets in our home. Craig has put it in 2 of his toilets in, in his home as well. And, and I'll tell you just what we found it. So I, I mentioned it in the video, but we live on a well and I just recently we had our water tested. Our water tastes great, but it is, it's incredibly hard, which just means there's a lot of, there's a lot of chemi— a lot of, uh, minerals.

Minerals.

And, um, so, you know, we get, we get this scaling, we get it on our, on our, our toilets, we get it, um, on our faucets, we get it, uh, in our showers, all over the place, right?

Normal.

It's just, it's just normal. It's just what it is. And so we have to figure out what do we do. And it is a lot of, a lot of cleaning. My, my son and my, my son is responsible for cleaning the toilet in our, in our, uh, room. And, uh, he, he just turned 10, so he's young. He's in there going, how long do I have to scrub this thing to get it clean? Uh, but he's been telling me lately, he's like, Daddy, I don't have to clean this. It's clean. And so I— it's, it's really incredible. And, and what you were telling me earlier is that it's just— it, it's chemical-free. It's just this

magnetic field.

Well, yeah, it's just magnets. Like, it's, uh, hydromineral magnets that, um, will last in water, and they're positioned inside so they remagnetize each other.

Okay.

That's why they last so long.

Okay.

It's like rechargeable, but they recharge each other.

Interesting.

And since they'll last indefinitely in water, as just a— it's just a stone, right? That's it. That's all it takes. That's what water treatment facilities use. Originally in steel pipes, the rate of scaling would, you know, render the pipe useless in a short amount of time. So they used to put these big magnets around the collars around the exiting the, uh, water treatment facility so that they would pass through this magnetic field, and then it would, you know, reduce the rate of scaling, you know, 90%.

Okay.

Right? Because it just— it, it, uh, you know, if it passes through, it's affected.

Like, it just breaks down. It breaks down that mineral.

Anyone you put in front of the sun is gonna— without sunscreen is gonna get a sunburn. Yeah. after a certain amount of time. So it's like that.

Okay.

And, you know, uh, that's a very simple, low technology.

Yeah, but it— and the thing that I love about it is that it's not introducing chemicals into my home. It's not introducing chemicals into the water. Because that's the other thing, because I live on a well, um, I also live in an area that I don't have, you know, uh, you know, regular water, um, Treatment for that. And so we dump everything into a septic.

Yeah.

And the septic has to get treated as well. And so every time we dump chemicals into our, our water, it goes into the septic, that goes back into, you know, we, we have an aerobic system. So it, the sprinkler goes, that dumps it back into my yard, which eventually goes back into the water that my, that my well draws from.

Yeah, that's great.

So there's a— there's this whole ecosystem that happens. And so the less chemicals I have to use, the better.

Yeah, 100%. 100%. And that's why it's so good. It's really the resistance that we found was typical. Like, it's very, um, the behavior science is like consumer is like the consumer, you know, why did they buy it? Like, there was lots of case studies, but let's take, um, a dandruff shampoo. It's not Head and Shoulders, but I forget the name of it. And they would put this chemical in it to make your scalp tingle, like eucalyptus, you know. And then you'd feel it tingling, and you— and the effect was you thought it was working.

Right, right.

It had nothing to do with the dandruff, had no benefit for the dandruff. It was a signal that it's working. The same thing with the color, you know, the color, the Most of the toilet bowl cleaners are mostly color. The efficacious chemicals are gone very quickly after a few days.

Mm-hmm.

You know, now, you know, like there are some good brands that last longer, but there's still chemicals going into your system. A lot of families, you know, parents, new parents with young children, they opt out of using them. Families with pets, dogs, cats, you know, they like to take water out of the toilet, you know, so they opt out of it and This is a very simple but elegant solution that could bring, you know, families and people back into having a way to keep their toilet from staining and scaling. And the more challenging part is to get people to give up the— they feel like when— if a guest comes and they see blue, it's— they feel good

about the toilet.

Right.

I have a clean house, you know. We're thinking about offering an organic coloring feature onto the product so that it'll keep the, you know, not like a harsh blue, but like a, you know, a sky blue, you know, so that you— there's something there for the folks that want to have that for a guest room or something, and it's important to them.

Sure.

So we're playing around with that. That might be available this year. But otherwise, it's just getting people— and also in the instructions, I'm not sure if you did this, but it says to clean your toilet first.

Yeah, we, we actually did. Yeah, that— so that whenever I said, yeah, this is a clean toilet, right? Because I had just cleaned it. Right.

Yeah.

Now, uh, in that regard, there are toilets that have such a history of having that appearance and cleaning of— even after you clean it, there's still a little not visible, uh, stuff that remains that'll grab, yeah, you know, future stuff. So, you know, it could take a few times to cycle through. And, um, you know, also, if you have— every pipeline to a toilet is different, so you don't know what's in that pipeline, right? And, um, if a toilet is, is being, you know, stubborn, that means some, uh, it's not— scaling's appearing too soon, even though it's not going to stick.

Right.

You stain, you know, discoloration is appearing even though it's not a stain or a scale. you can wipe that away with a tissue. And if you— then you can add a booster, and that should— that'll, you know, leave 1% of the, uh, pro— you know, 1% of the toilets just, you know, are overwhelmed where, uh, you know, you need— it's not economically feasible to use this.

Sure.

But even so, the, the folks that have that, they keep it and they just A lot of them stay with it and they just, you, they just use a little, uh, tissue. Literally a tissue will clean it.

Yeah.

Wow. So it's a change of behavior that takes longer.

I think that's, that is the biggest thing that I think with, with any change is doing something different than you've ever done before. I think marriage does that to you more than anything else, right? It's like, well, we didn't do it that way. And it was like, well, that's wrong. It's like, it's not wrong, it's just different.

Yeah.

So trying to learn and, and accept those differences.

Well, now I'm so happy I got married at 20. Yeah. So, married very young.

You didn't have those, those preconceived things.

I don't know better.

I don't know.

I just, I recommend Mother Nature is smarter. If, uh, you have a chance and you meet a sweetheart and you're young, I would say stick to it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I'm actually surprised that, like, home cleaning companies haven't caught on to this because, like, we've been using it in our house And I know the, the gal that comes and cleans our house is super happy because she doesn't have to spend as much time on the toilet cleaning it.

Mm-hmm.

Um, because I'm not doing it. Um, you know, but like, it's, it's one of those things. I think, I think it helps to talk to somebody that's actually used it because I was, I was telling Kevin a couple weeks ago, I sold one of these on the street, uh, to one of my clients, uh, because he was, he was asking about the show and I was telling him, like, you were coming in town, we're going to be doing this thing. He goes, what's that? And so I showed him and he's like, this thing's supposed to last 10 years. I was like, and he's like, does it work? And I was like, yeah, I've had it in my toilet for like a month and a half

and it's, it's cleaner than it's ever been. Um, and to that, to that point, I was watching, um, I looked up to see if there was any other reviews online to see if anybody else had done. There's one guy that's done a pretty substantial review. The other ones were kind of weird. It was like a Russian gal and some gal from like India or something. Um, they weren't very good, but this guy did one and he was complaining. He was saying it for him, it didn't work so good. But as I was watching the video, I was like, I see the holes in, in, in the review here. He was saying like he kept getting dirt around the ring of the toilet, but he also said like, look, it

just comes right off. And I think that's something that you guys use in some of your, your online.

We try and educate people.

Yeah, it's not as sticky as it was before.

Yeah, there are, there are people that, you know, are It's been, you know, I never did e-commerce, and I'm fascinated by the temperament of the marketplace. And there are folks that just make a living or a business out of— I want to say trolling is the word.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I'm not being defensive because we know it's like, we know it's not possible for the product not to work. It would be like, you know, if I have a magnet and I'm going to pick up a paper clip and now I ask you, is this magnet working? It's working, right?

Right, yeah.

Now, I take off the paper clip and I try and pick up a 10-pound paper clip, the magnet's not going to lift it. And I go, is this magnet working?

Yeah.

Yeah, but it's not strong enough for this.

Yeah.

Right? So, there are cases, you know, probably, you know, less than 1% of our customers have had this frustration where boosters have pretty much wiped it out. But even— and then, you know, we, we, uh, there are cases where that happens. But even when the case where the discoloration reappears, there's no staining or scaling, right? The thing cannot not work. Yeah, it's physics, it's science, you know.

But, um, well, I'll tell you one of the other things in that particular review that I thought was Troublesome, um, was he had a separate bidet unit attached to the toilet. Well, that water never goes into the tank, right?

So that's exactly— and so like, so then you're bypassing the filter, right? And so to speak.

Yeah. And so that was, that was an issue. I, I bring it up just because I want you to have the opportunity to address it because he's, he's gotten lots of views on it. Um, and, and in the comments there were a lot of people that said, yeah, but if you use something like that, it's going to ruin all your gaskets and you're going to get a leak in the toilet.

It's the opposite.

So, well, okay, yeah, right.

The chemicals erode the, the gaskets and the flapper and, you know, inside, uh, it's the chemicals that erode that, right? There's no chemicals here. It's complete— this product prolongs the life of your toilet parts.

Mm-hmm.

You know, I'm telling you as a True Value, Home Depot historical, you know, guy, like, this is the opposite. What they're saying is, is it's the— is completely completely wrong.

Right.

Chemicals ruin that.

Yeah, I would imagine so. I tell people that all the time for our stuff. I mean, like, chemicals erode plastics like crazy.

A lot of times they'll expect it to clean— if some, let's say, as some jokes have been made, Uncle Louie visits the toilet at a party and he leaves a lot behind.

As Uncle Louie does.

Why didn't Crazy fix that.

Right.

No, it presents— it prevents water from staining and scaling.

Yeah.

If you put dirt in there, you're gonna have to clean it.

Yeah, right.

You know, the other thing that I found that folks are— I don't know if they're aware of it or— I mean, obviously I can't prove it, but the product is made in China. Now, we've been in China for 40 years.

Right.

And, you know, everybody has products. You know, use Apple phone, iPhone, you know, or any phones, you know, they're made in China.

Absolutely.

It's hypocritical to, you know, be, you know, virtue signaling by saying made in America. Yeah, or don't just say it's made in China. It's no good when, right, everything you're living on, your computers and all your technology and all— it's just even your medicines are coming from China right now. I'm, I'm very pro-American in general.

We talked about that earlier.

Yeah, I'm willing to make it in America, but it'll be 4 times the cost.

Right.

Now, and I will be, you know, and I have— I will have that as an option and I'll put it out there. You can choose the American one, the same specs, but it's gonna be more expensive. People, you know, and I'll be happy to put it out there and do it. And I want to do it partially. I'm going to do it because politics— the Chinese business people and the American business people don't have a problem with each other. That's the political system that is— the politics of this world is so crazy. I'm not defending the aspects of China that are un-American.

Right.

Right. But the business, they've been a very, very loose economy. They've let capitalism, so to speak, flourish over there for 30 years. And now they're arresting it. and the way they're advancing their— and dealing with the world, you know, things happening in the world that is, you know, unacceptable, right? But they, you know, that is a problem. So if there is an issue between— and God forbid that the world goes into further chaos and we can't do business with them, then, you know, I want to be able to make it here.

Right, yeah.

So furthermore, there are no magnets, magnet suppliers in the US.

Really?

They all come from China.

Oh, interesting.

So I, you know, I have to in that regard to have redundancy. You know, we're building a mold here and my mold maker in Florida is sourcing the mold in China.

Yeah.

Okay, but we have to be able to make it here. But then I have to have warehousing of millions of magnets.

Right.

Because it'll take— now it's going to take a long time for U.S. supply. We're going to have to get it from other sources, but China's world dominant on magnets.

So I'm going to expose some ignorance on my part. How do you even make magnets? I mean, I assume you have to make them.

Well, you do. You basically, you get this rock material, and then you melt it and shape it.

Okay.

You form it. That's how, you know, there are many different types of magnets, but fundamentally the magnets we use are heated, melted, and then formed into shape.

Interesting.

Yeah, that's shocking that we don't— I mean, like, yeah, it's shocking and not shocking at the same time that we don't do that here.

Well, it's kind of like, why, why get into that business when they do it so well over there?

Right, it's so much cheaper, you know. That's, that was They have a 100-year, 1,000-year plan. They're on different— the Chinese culture is hard for Westerners to understand, for me to understand when I first got there because I would say they're amoral.

Right.

They don't have a moral compass or Western ethics. People, regardless, it's Western ethics and we know really the wellspring of that.

Right.

So, um, they don't have any of that. So it's very— they, you know, so Americans would come back thinking that, well, the Chinese lie to you. And actually it's true, but they don't—

They don't see it as lying.

Well, they, they, they don't see it as lying. They're, they're telling you— they're trained to satisfy you.

Right.

Right. And then they— that's what they understand in the, in the cultural divide. Now that's changed, right? Because we've become— we have a lot of quality control there, you know, decades of quality control led by the Walmarts of the world and the Apples, you know, and the Nikes, you know, and every— all the companies have developed quality control there that's very rock solid. Now China's light years ahead.

Yeah.

Of Vietnam or any other company, you know, those Eastern countries, but Yeah, we've lost the competency here because we outsourced it there as if China was Florida or Texas.

Right.

Yeah.

Well, you mentioned Walmart and it reminded me I wanted to ask you, I think I was reading up on it, I think Toilet Clean was available in Home Depot at one point in time, but this is not, right? I mean, this is not a retail product.

No, we haven't released it to retail. We have not released it to retail. And that's an interesting subject too, right? Which is—

I was gonna ask if it was like a business decision.

Well, it is. I don't know what to do. I'm being honest. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm sure everything— like, it's like my whole life experience is useless now, right? Because unless I can, you know, structure and I can— I've been a vendor to all the companies in America, right? And I can present my— I can organize myself to serve them the way they need to be served, right? And make a profit at the end of the day. Not a great profit, but that's not the point.

Sure.

You know, you create, you have jobs, you have families, you have businesses. It's, we're doing something with a purpose. And the point is that it's becoming increasingly difficult to make a profit at retail.

Yeah.

Through distribution. which disturbs me. So the focus, the pressure is, well, we should grow the e-commerce platform, go international, expand the brand, build the e-com, serve the consumer where they want to shop.

Right.

And I want to do that, but I also bleed orange because I'm a Home Depot— God bless Lowe's and Menards, I love them, but Home Depot, They gave me an education with my father-in-law. That's my biggest educations are from them. I got in with Home Depot in the '90s. They only had 3 or 4, you know, less than 400 stores. So I learned everything. A great deal I learned from the founders and the original leadership of Home Depot. And it's the best I've, you know, I've never, I haven't seen anything superior to it yet from a business perspective, right?

Right.

The way that the culture is. And I still love them. But yeah, we haven't gone to retail yet, and I don't know what we will. I'm holding myself back because that's what I'm an animal to do.

Sure. Yeah, you know that.

I know that, and I want to do that. I'm proud to be a vendor to True Value or Home Depot or Walgreens or H-E-B. But we haven't done it yet.

Yeah, I think it's challenging because with the With the invention of the internet and with the, with, with commerce being so online, I mean, I, I'll tell you, my number one place to go to find anything is online.

Right. Everyone goes to Amazon. Everybody's on Amazon. We're not on Amazon either.

But, okay. That, that was my next, that was my next question.

Yeah. Yeah. Because I, I think that it's just, first of all, it's at your fingertips. You know, you can get it in 2 days, which is, you know, crazy enough, sometimes faster than I can go, go to Walmart and get it.

Right.

Right. even though there's one on every corner where we live. But, you know, by the time you decide you need something, find which product you want, and then purchase it and install it and whatever it is, you can order it and get it there a lot quicker. And so I think it's one of the things that, you know, companies like Home Depot, like Lowe's, like Walmart, Target even, They've, they've figured out a way to survive in a, in a world that Amazon exists.

Well, they, they've developed their own e-commerce.

They have had to.

Yeah.

They have had to.

Or, or bought e-commerce.

Yep.

I mean, that's what Walmart did is they just bought one.

Right? And so I, I think that that's the challenge that, that any small business owner that has a product to sell, that's not a digital product specifically, but a, but a physical product to sell, It, it's the challenge of, of how do I get it out to the masses? And I think podcasts like this help, but, um, how do I get it out to the masses, help people understand what it is, educate people about it? Which, by the way, where are they gonna get educated? Online. Yeah.

Right.

They're gonna get educated through YouTube videos. They're gonna get educated through podcasts or through, um, you know, going online and looking at your website. And so they're gonna go there and then they're gonna look for where they can buy it. And frankly, going to Home Depot is more trouble than going on your website and just ordering it from there. You're already there.

Yeah, you know, you know, that's a— some things happen where, uh, it's hard. It— we would go to Home Depot just for fun.

Yeah, yeah.

Just to see, is there a new toy or what to do? Like, Depot was built on fun, and they had experts there. So the, uh, You know, the person of the house, you know, we used to say the woman of the house, but the, you know, the person in the house—

It's very PC of you.

Yeah, the person in the house that, let's say, didn't know how to fix something and had to go and wasn't going to do it themselves but needed help, you know, the expert at— they had— Depot had experts that would, you know, build a whole project for you and help you get it done right. you can go there to talk to a master plumber and electrician, you know, just as, you know, you go to the supermarket, you could talk to like a produce guy that has his own farm, right?

Yeah.

That doesn't happen. Depot was tremendous at that, and they were fun. They were just— you step, you know, it's just a fun place to be. Now, that's changed a lot as they've got— used less associates. But it's hard for— no matter how much fun you have in a Home Depot— I know I'm going along on this— can it compete with the fun you have at home in your pajamas ordering online? Like, I don't know if any environment can compete with, uh, getting you to the store unless you have a hobby. Like, you know, I'm still going to go to the music store, right?

Right.

Yeah. But I will also go to, uh, you know, Dream Guitars or Carter Vintage or whatever, but yeah, or the great Alamo Guitars in San Antonio. I'm sure Houston has some great guitars.

Rockin' Robin's probably the most famous one around here.

Yeah, so there you're gonna go because it's part of your— that's really a passion of yours, but fixing a lamp, You know, or, you know.

Yeah, I don't know that there's much that can compete with like the dopamine hit of buying something online. I mean, it's just different. They've engineered that. I mean, like it's baked into the system.

Well, maybe they have to start serving alcohol. Hey, hey, it's not a bad idea. Or sharing the alcohol.

But I think that the point though too is like even these physical stores, they all, all the ones that are doing it well, have online ordering. So you're still not walking through the aisles the way you used to.

Right.

Because I can literally just order it, drive, pick it up. I never had to walk into that store.

That's right.

So you're still, even if you put something on a shelf, you're still gonna battle the consumer mindset of, I don't have to walk into that store if I don't want to.

We were the smallest, one of the small, we were a small family business. And people— and we had all the big guys coming after us in the picture hangers, right? And they, they asked, you know, how the heck did we manage to survive against all the big companies? And, you know, we knew the answer, which is, you know, the founders of Home Depot knew the answer by sending everybody the gracious home, right?

Mm-hmm.

And the answer was that all— everything takes force. Like, we would do things for the traffic. that other companies could never do. So when you came to the set, we had things going on that were just extra efforts that most companies wouldn't make.

Yeah.

Right? And because we knew we didn't measure success one sale at a time, we measured success by creating the probabilities of a second sale. It's really a merchandising concept, right? But you need traffic.

Yeah.

So I no longer— if I'm not getting the feed, the traffic, everything starts to decay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It absolutely matters. I mean, to your point, there's whole restaurants that have put their marketing around that very thing. The first time you show up to a restaurant is probably because you were invited. And the second time you go is because you liked it so much that you said, hey, would you come with me? me. Let me show you this place that I went to. The 3rd time they show up, they went on their own because they liked it that much.

That one gift.

Yeah. Once you get it to the 3rd time, you've got them for life. They will keep coming back. And so the question is, what dessert do I have to give away? What appetizer do I have to give away? What is that 3rd thing that I have to get away to get them here the 3rd time that they will show up forever and ever and ever? And so to your point, yeah, it's that That, that is the consumer mindset, and it, it is baked into us. It is drilled into us without even knowing why we believe that Google is the authority on anything is because Google has done a great job of convincing us of that.

It's positioning.

It's positioning.

You learn positioning.

It is.

That's it. It's very hard to change a person's mind on what they— on that number one spot.

Yeah.

And, uh, Google was the classic, classic positioning case, you know, of just a white screen with a search box.

That's it.

You know, when you say Google, historically, you said search.

Yeah. Well, let me— let— to that end, I wanna— I wanna show the, the result of, of my— so yesterday, I did another video that, that kinda demonstrated what— where we're at on this. And, and, and it's, it's one of those things where, where you've got a lifetime product, pretty much. 10 years. I mean, Many people don't live in their home for 10 years.

I was gonna say, yeah.

Or, or, or maybe they decide to remodel their bathroom and, you know, whatever. So, uh, 10 years is a long, long time. It's almost a lifetime.

I know people in the company argued against us doing it. Yeah, but it's the right— it's— it is the right thing to do. Yeah.

Well, well, let's, uh, let's see here what I have to say. All right, well, it's been 2 and a half months since we installed the Crazy Clean Into that toilet right back there. And, uh, let's just see what it looks like. I mean, the claim is that it's going to reduce that ring that is created by hard water. And as I told you in the last, uh, video, our water here is extremely hard. And so we don't have any water softener, we don't have any filtered, it's just straight well water. And so, uh, you know, we have that problem, and this Crazy Clean product claims to be able to take that away. So let's see what it looks

like. All right, y'all, the Crazy Clean's in there, and, uh, let's open this thing up, see what it looks like.

2 and a half months.

Holy cow, seriously, look at this. I mean, there's some leftover stains from a long time ago, but whenever you look at what this looks like compared to that first video— maybe we're gonna flush this so you can actually see. Like, y'all, that is incredible in comparison to what it did look like. I mean, this— all that— all this stuff that you're seeing, like, up here on the rim, that stuff is, is left over, but We don't clean this that often anymore because we don't have to. That stain stays away. Pretty incredible. I'm sold, y'all. This is a much cleaner toilet bowl, and I can guarantee we will be putting this in every single one of our toilets.

I mean, that, that doesn't surprise you at all, does it?

No, I mean, that— no, no, no, it surprises everybody else.

Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you, it's, it's It's the proof is in the pudding.

Yeah.

I mean, I literally, y'all, I didn't do anything else. I just dropped it in there and I didn't go in there with any pumice stone or anything else.

I didn't have to.

Well, the pumice stone will get rid of it.

It'll get rid of those other, those other stains. So I've got some work to do. But as far as the, the scaling that was there, it's removed it and it's no, none other is forming at this point.

It won't unless something changes in the water.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. The water, which it shouldn't.

I mean, you're on a well.

Yeah. You're on a well. It's variables out.

Which was, I think that was why we tested it the way that we did. Cause Kev's on a, on a well and I'm on city water here. And so like, we wanted to see the 2 different kinds. Um, yeah. And I need to, I need to get some more cause like we, uh, we have 5 toilets on the—

Yeah. We've got 2 more. We've got 2 more at a, at another home on our property as well. So Yeah, yeah, we need to get a couple more.

But yeah, and, and so like we've talked about where you can't buy it, where can you buy it?