In Home Floors with Adrian Rojas

This is The Homeowner Show, episode 202. Whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to bring you the best information and options for you and your home. I'm Craig Williams, doing the show all by myself again. Well, not completely by myself. We got a, we got a guest in the studio tonight.

Hi.

I turned off the music too. I'm gonna mess something up tonight. That's fine, it's, it's live, it's good.

Rip the band-aid off.

Yeah, just pull that off. Yeah, we didn't— no one likes the intro music anyway. They're just all waiting for something to go wrong with it. It's fine. So, but we, we are in studio tonight, uh, talking all things flooring, uh, and we got a, we got a previous guest in the studio again. Like, this, this is actually fun. This is like, for me, this is when the show gets fun, is when we get to bring in our old friends.

Yeah.

Not that you're old, but we've been friends for a while.

Certainly feel old.

Yeah. So we got, we got Adrian in the house and say hello to everybody.

How's it going, everybody?

Yeah, man. Thank you, dude. Thank you. Thank you for coming in. I know this was a little bit last minute, but we're gonna have some fun tonight.

Absolutely. Yeah, it's fun over here.

So Kevin, Kevin fled the country.

Yeah.

So we'll see. We'll see what develops with that. And we'll get— I'll let him tell us.

We were friends.

Wait.

He led the country. That's not good.

He didn't, he didn't leave us, like, any notes or cash. He left his family.

Well, someone might need to check on Kevin.

So, so, actually, I'll tell you this. While he was out of the country, I don't even know if he knows this. His wife reached out to— it was actually my dad. She reached out to my dad because all of a sudden the water on their property was just completely turned off. They have a well, and she's never had a well before. And I don't think Kevin's had a well before either. I don't know. I'll have to ask him about that. But anyway, she reached out to my dad. She's like, I don't have any water. There's no electricity out in the shop. I don't know what to do. And so he kind of had to walk her through the process of like, okay, where's your breaker box? Where's this breaker box? And like,

okay, we got to follow this back. Is that connected to the well house? And he said it took him— it only took him like 15, 20 minutes on the phone to kind of get her to the breaker, find the one that was tripped, turn it on, got the water running in the house again.

Of course, that happens when you're gone.

Oh, yeah. Every time. Yeah. And I have to imagine if you have a well, one of the things that you have to be afraid of is running out of water, particularly right now.

I can imagine that. Yeah.

Yeah. And so that would be the first thing that went through my mind is like, did we use all the water? Is it gone?

Yeah.

I mean, because you'd have to imagine that thing has a bottom.

That's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Who knows?

Country problems.

Country problems. Yeah. I don't know which— this would be a good question. Would you rather have that or septic issues? I know in my head which one, because I would think, well, issues. If you're going to have issues with one, which one are you going to pick?

Well, while there's not as many people that know how to work it or fix it or whatnot, septic just sounds bad. If you've got septic issues, I've heard of some people obviously doing flooring that have had septic issues. That's just stuff coming up the wrong way.

Yeah, that's right, it's going the wrong way down the drain.

Just, uh, it's not just tap water coming out of the walls from busted pipe, it's sewage water and Yeah, not good. That's not what you want to have in your carpet in your master bedroom.

No, no. I'm— and I'll tell you, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I would rather have septic issues than well issues.

Oh, really?

Oh, yeah.

Huh. Why is that?

I can poop in the yard.

There you have it, folks. If you need a technical explanation. As to the difference between septic issues and well issues, I can poop wherever I want.

I can't drill another well.

Defiantly.

Yeah. If it, if it's empty, I'm done.

Like, go find your own hole to poop in.

That's right. You got a shovel. Come on. You can make it happen. It's like camping. It's fun.

It's like camping. Okay. I wanna go camping with you.

I do it away, away from the tent.

Find a different campsite with power.

You'll, you'll never have a problem with bears. All right. So let's get into a little bit. So you, you actually have some exciting news. You just started new, new venture.

Absolutely.

So what is, what is this thing? What is this crazy idea that you have? In-Home Floors.

Yep. That's the name of it.

Which it— I have to confess to everybody, it took me like 10 minutes to get it right before we got started. I was really It was tough.

I mean, that's a lot of syllables.

That's right. For, for a guy that poops in the yard.

Oh, no. But it is, in-home floors. We are a full-service flooring company. We do carpet, laminate, vinyl, tile, you name it. But we're also gonna be doing cabinetry as well as countertops.

That's awesome. Oh, countertops. Okay.

To be able to really help out the customer. In the previous company that I worked for during the freeze, it was a big eye-opening moment. Through COVID and the freeze, we've seen so many things that were big changing in our industry. One of them being these customers are, are put out. They don't— they weren't planning on getting flooring. The freeze customers, they weren't planning on getting flooring. They didn't, they didn't know. And then now we're thrust into a situation where everyone needs flooring all at once. Mhmm.

You know, You just—

you have— you're, you're stuck waiting for insurance, trying to figure out how insurance works because you've been paying them 10 years and you've never done it before. You and everybody else.

Never made a claim. Yeah.

Insurance doesn't know what the heck's going on. And, and now you're— you've got a flooring company. Well, it's not just flooring. You need a sheetrocking company and a painting company and a cabinet company and a countertop company just to get you back to some semblance of life. Yeah. And, and so many people were getting taken advantage of, uh, and paying a premium to people that can do all those things because it's just, just give me a check, sign it, and, uh, get it done. I don't wanna have to deal with this. And it was just, it was tough seeing customers go through that. Like, I can help you. We need to get you something that matches your house, not something that just, just looks

pretty.

Right.

It needs to match your situation. But then You know, they go with someone else down the street because they've got a guy for this, they've got a guy for that. And it was just— people were running into such bad situations. So we do wanna be able to get countertops and cabinets. That way, we get the whole kitchen remodel.

Yeah.

The whole bathroom remodel. That way, it's just one person, one point of contact, and you don't have to worry about it. Yeah.

And, and the situation that you're describing, I think, is, is one that at least people that live close to here are pretty familiar with because if If, you know, last— what is it, last— was it last winter or the winter before?

Winter before.

Winter before when all pipes burst. Um, you know, when, when people flood like that in their kitchen, like, yeah, they need to replace their floors. But if you flood, like, yeah, you got to replace the cabinets. Yeah, you got to replace those. And if you're replacing the cabinets and you haven't replaced the countertops in 15 years, well, okay, let's just go ahead and— yeah, let's just do that because, like, we're gonna get all new stuff, you know, underneath it anyway. And, you know, most of the time when you're replacing cabinets, they'll tell you, like, well, if you're ripping the cabinets out, we gotta take the countertop out anyway.

Yeah. So as soon as you start to take the cabinet out, the countertop breaks.

Yeah.

And now it's included in the insurance claim. And then the bottom cabinets, you know, were from 20 years ago. They don't match the top cabinets. Right. So now you gotta take the top cabinets out too. There's a lot to it.

And helping people— it's like the first domino falls and then— right. Yeah.

And, and being able to describe that and, okay, I understand. You know, you're in a tough situation. You weren't planning on doing this, but here's the plan. Here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna go through these steps, and this is where we're gonna end up.

Right.

They like just that sense of security knowing that these people know what they're talking about, and they can get me to where I need to go efficiently and easily.

Is, is the, the flooring that tends to be replaced first when people walk in? Like, let's say people are, they just I mean, like, the, the thing that we're dealing with right now, everybody's buying houses, selling houses. You buy a house, the first thing people wanna replace, I would imagine, is, like, kitchen flooring. Right? Or bathroom flooring.

Anywhere where there's the carpet.

Oh, and they just— they're wanting to get rid of carpet.

Yeah. The, the— in fact, most people don't know this, but there's a lot of stuff that gets underneath your carpet.

Uh-huh.

And, unfortunately, while carpet used to be a very popular option, it's kind of on its way out now, especially down here in the South. where installation for hard surface is so much more cost effective. You know, up north, actually, the same thing that we pay for down here in tile installation, they pay 4 times the cost for the installer. We have a very large pool of skilled labor down here that's pretty cost effective.

Yeah.

So our hard surface installations actually are pretty cost effective compared to carpet, and people don't want someone's old carpet.

Right.

I mean, that's like having someone's old mattress.

It's just— Well, I mean, are people— do people in general just having an aversion towards carpet? I mean, because, I mean, like, where there's carpet before, like, you could just go back and you could get— you could get nice carpet and put carpet down.

Yeah. And there, there are people that still love carpet and, and want it in the bedrooms. You know, you don't wanna turn out of the bed and put your feet first down on a cold, hard surface.

Right? Right.

So there is still a very big market for carpet, just not someone else's carpet.

Yeah. You don't want— yeah. You don't want those people that didn't poop in the yard.

Right. The ones that did not poop in the yard. They didn't know what to do. They're gonna just get a lot of mileage out of that. Out the poop.

Out of that.

Yep.

Well, I mean, like, I, I say that jokingly, but, like, I'm, I'm halfway kidding. Like, it's— I've, I've been in that house, and I got out real quick.

Well, that's what— I mean, case in point, a lot of things happen in carpet, and people try to clean it up and move it around. And you go to buy a house, and it smells brand new and everything. And then by the time you move in, and it's Well, the pad is not as fresh as it was, and all the cats and the dogs and everything else start to become evident. People just want to replace carpet first. But, um, out of the places that they want to remodel, uh, yeah, probably the bathroom, the master bathroom first.

Yeah.

Um, most of your designers will tell you that, you know, if there's a 2 rooms in the house that are different flooring than the entire rest of the house, it'll be the master bathroom and the kitchen. Because those 2 rooms are shown— the data shows that those are very, very personal to that homeowner.

Right.

So those are the rooms that get changed first. Now, unfortunately, those are probably the 2 most expensive rooms in the house because of the cabinets and the counters and, you know, tiling walls and shower pans and stuff like that. But if they are doing a remodel, usually the kitchen or master bathroom is in place somehow.

Yeah. I mean, that, that those have to be the most labor-intensive remodel rooms in the, in the house.

Because there's so many skilled trades that are needed in that one room. I mean, a living room, I mean, you have a painter and a floor guy.

Right.

And maybe someone AV to hook up the home theater system.

Yeah.

But kitchen, it's totally different. You need a plumber, you need a countertop guy, you need a cabinet guy, flooring guy.

Yep.

You know, someone to do all the appliances, right? I mean, the whole— you could be architectural. Most of the time when you're running into people that want to move walls or remove walls or, or change this around and where the supports is because they're redoing their kitchen.

Are you, are you seeing people have weird requests for rooms? And what I mean, like, I've seen some kitchens recently that have like wood flooring and I was like, well, that's kind of weird. And like, like hardwood flooring, not like laminate or, you know, any vinyl or any of that kind of stuff, but like wood flooring in the kitchen or wood flooring in the bathroom. Yeah. I mean, things, things like that.

Carpet in the bathroom.

Carpet. And I still— I bought a house with carpet in the bathroom. That was the worst.

Yeah. And then, and that, yeah, that's pretty bad. The worst is when you get the customer asking you to do that.

Like, well, that's kind of why I'm asking. I mean, like, do you have people asking you to do that kind of stuff?

Yes. Uh, You'd be surprised. There's a lot of different things out there, uh, but for the most part, people listen to reason. If you show them, hey, this is why you don't want to do that— you can if you want.

Yeah.

And I've had people that had hardwood in their kitchen for 25 years without issue. Yeah.

You know, well, I mean, give it to the people, man. Tell them. I'm like, let's start right off. Why would you not want hardwood in your kitchen and/or bathroom?

Because of the high traffic. Hardwood is the softest of all the hard surfaces.

Okay.

So it is the most prone to scratching. But mainly because the water. And, and yes, flooding is an issue, but also residual moisture. I mean, if you spill a glass of water, spill a glass of water, or you run the dishwasher a lot, right? You open up that dishwasher, all the steam and the hot water, a little bit drips onto the floor. You do that, if you've got a busy household and you're doing that, you know, 3, 4 times a week, you're gonna damage that hardwood.

Yeah.

And then, of course, you know, with hardwood, unfortunately, Uh, well, the, the beauty behind the hardwood is it's a natural surface, right? Each plank is unique and different to the one next to it, and as such, they take stain differently.

Yeah.

So even if you bought the same thing 2 years from now and it just so happens to not be discontinued and everything is still right and the color's still available, it's going to be a different color just because the— when that tree was cut down, whether it was more dry or more wet, the stain is taken differently and it is a different color. Yeah. You cannot replicate it.

So, I mean, like, for the kitchen, I mean, like, are you— at the top of your list, is it always gonna be tile?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. That is, that's always the best. Out of all the waterproof solutions, tile is the one that is the most waterproof.

Okay.

Borderline floodproof as long as it's installed properly.

Okay.

Whereas, like, the waterproof laminate or the waterproof vinyl, it's waterproof up until it's installed as a floor, unfortunately. And then you get large amounts of water on it and it's, it's submerged and now voided in the warranty.

Yeah. So what I mean, like, so top, top, top tier is tile. And are we talking like ceramic? Are we talking, uh, because I know there's different ceramic and porcelain.

Okay. Uh, there's also natural stone, which I don't recommend for a kitchen. I actually would recommend natural stone in a kitchen Beneath probably laminate and vinyl.

Really?

Uh, yeah. A lot of people don't know this about natural stone. Uh, well, they don't assume it. Um, it's porous, right? And unless you're polishing and cleaning that surface, it is prone to staining, just like granite countertops used to be, right?

Okay.

Uh, if you don't seal it, or it can stain. You put something acidic in it, you spill the pizza sauce or something like that, now you've got a red stain. You feel wine, red wine.

Mm-hmm.

You know, you can stain a natural stone surface. And so unless you maintain it, which is expensive, right? Most people don't know. It doesn't— they don't put it very bright and clear on the box because then they wouldn't sell very many boxes. Yeah.

So what are some examples of like natural stone that people like to use?

Marble. Okay. Marble is real, real big. It's beautiful. I mean, absolutely stunning. And it's used a lot in backsplashes and even in showers and whatnot. And it can—

it'll be—

it'll last you forever. but you have to maintain it. It does take a next level of care that most people are not committed to, right? Uh, because it gives you— I mean, it is a natural stone, right? It's, it's just like the hardwood. No 2 planks are ever the same, right? It's, it's totally unique every single time. But if you don't take care of it, it won't last you.

So if someone's like insistent on marble, like, what are, what do you need? What are the expectations you need to give them in order to maintain that?

Um, You need to— we don't sell or install marble, natural stone, just because of that, those issues.

Okay.

But you need to, um, look up for that specific product that you get what the manufacturer recommends. Uh, there's no warranties on it, right? It's a natural product. Uh, but you need to see what the manufacturer recommends as far as how to keep the finish looking right, how often you should clean it, how often you should have it resealed. Etc., and then follow those directions.

Okay.

To a T.

Yeah, so whatever the manufacturer recommends.

Correct.

Is that typically like, like a sealant or something that you put on there?

Yeah, polish. Have it polished, have it cleaned. Some of the cleaners that you get for it actually have the polish in it.

Okay.

Right, it's not the most, you know, cost-effective thing on the, on the shopping cart, but, but there are things to do to help with that. But you need to make sure that when you know what you're getting yourself into when you do go with natural stone option. While it is beautiful, it can be hard.

Are there other examples of natural stone that people are really digging other than marble?

Not really. I mean, granite used to be, and—

But not so much for like flooring, right?

No, not for flooring. Sometimes still for like a surround for a fireplace, or they're taking it off of the countertop and doing it up the backsplash. Uh, but usually when they're for flooring options, it's, uh, marble when they want a decorative look.

So tile, and then what's, what's next for you if we're doing like kitchen bathroom kind of stuff?

Hmm, I would have to say vinyl.

Vinyl.

Um, vinyl, and, uh, shortly after that, laminate. Um, the vinyl is great because the, the planks are 100% waterproof, and if you— in the event of a flood if you get to it quick enough, you can take the planks up, clean and dry the floor, and reinstall the planks.

Really?

Uh, yeah, and it's done often, but it's one of those things you have to know that. A lot of people think that because it's waterproof, you can just leave it. You could just leave it.

And I would think that's the case. I would totally think that. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, you were told it's waterproof. There's water on it, don't have to worry about it, it's waterproof. Well, unfortunately, you've created a waterproof barrier on top of concrete, which is a big hard sponge, right? And if water gets underneath, it gets trapped. I mean, mold can set within 24 hours.

Right.

Right? So you have to take up the planks and install. So is vinyl a great option for kitchen? Yeah, absolutely. But if you do flood, take up those planks. And if it's something small like your dishwasher leaked or your toilet overflowed and you caught it quick enough, Yeah, that's easy enough.

But are they, are they typically like glued down?

No, gluing down vinyl is more of a commercial thing.

Okay.

It's widely done in the commercial atmosphere, but it just, it's not very comfortable. It's not very warm. They're cool. The vinyls for glue down are thinner.

Okay.

Or more thin.

Uh, so what holds it to the floor then?

I mean, like, it's a floating floor. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, uh, your laminates, your vinyls, for the most part, are floating floors.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Do you, is there like, 'cause I know with laminate you typically wanna get like, you know, the most expensive underlayment that you could probably get.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, is that the same with vinyl?

Is there like, um, that's actually something that's gotten a lot of people in trouble because vinyl is not very thick in and of itself. Most of your, uh, products out there for floating vinyl are between, you know, 5 to 7 millimeters thick.

Right.

Well, the click and lock system that binds the 2 together is obviously half that thickness. There's a male and a female end. Right.

Right.

And so you're talking about a system to click and lock that you walk on every day, point contact, that's only, you know, 2 or 3 mils of thickness. That's, you know, a couple of credit cards thick.

Yeah.

And if you have too much cushion underneath there, you've got too much play in that click and lock system, and you'll snap it and break it. And that voids your warranties from the manufacturer, will also cause, if you leave water sitting on top, it now can go through and get trapped underneath and then mold and mildew.

Or if it's, you know, cat urine or dogs, you know, seal and stink, right?

Seal and stink.

Yeah.

But, uh, so yeah, there's a lot of— you, you need to know what you're purchasing, make sure that it's, uh, it's a good fit for you. Just because it's good for your neighbor doesn't necessarily mean it's a good fit for you. Doesn't mean that it's not. Yeah, but you need to make sure that that what you're getting does fit what your wants and needs are, and you're not— you're installing it exactly how the manufacturer says for their specific product. Because vinyl is something that's, uh, it's been around for a long time, but it's only been popular residentially for the last like 4 or 5 years since Harvey, right?

Yeah. Uh, are people— I mean, like, I remember looking at it pretty, pretty early when it started getting popular And my, my big objection was, is that it looked plastic. You know, it didn't, it didn't look good from, for like, you know, it did for me, it didn't pass the sniff test. It was like, I see what you're doing. I see that you're trying to make it look like wood. And, but it doesn't.

One of the problems, and that's something that they're going through in the, in the market with vinyl, is previously glue-down vinyl is very thin, right? Most of your stuff out there is 2 millimeters, 3 millimeters thick, the total thing, right?

So, right.

I mean, it's very, very, very flimsy. Well, now you've got everybody wanting it, and, you know, you can only put so much texture to make it look good, right, when the total thickness of the entire product core and pad and all is, you know, 4 or 5 millimeters thick, right? So then it was, well, we need to make it thicker, that way we can get more texture. And then because it's got more product, now it's more expensive.

Yeah.

Vinyl, even now, uh, vinyl, you can get the some cost-effective stuff at the big box stores, I think for like $1.50, $2 a foot, that have very, very, very little wear layer. And you can get stuff out there for $20+ a foot for vinyl, and it's, it's hard to tell what the difference is. But a lot of it is meant to fix that problem that they had when it was brand new and they were just shelling it out.

Yeah.

You can only make something look so good when it's that thin. You don't really have a lot of material to work with.

Yeah, so I mean, how much, how much thicker are they making it now?

Uh, I mean, honestly, there's stuff out there you can get that's almost stop a bullet. Uh, I've got a couple in the showroom.

I really want to test that theory right now.

I mean, I'd be happy to.

We can, we can make some videos.

It could be the next show. A couple pieces out here, we can see what exactly. But, um, some of the more thick stuff, 8mm, 10mm.

Okay.

Uh, thick.

That is pretty thick.

I mean, yeah. And I mean, if it's an SPC core, which is a stone polymer core instead of the wood polymer, it's, um, I mean, it's hefty. When you put that— when you hold that plank in your hand and then you hold something from a box store in your hand, it's like there's not— I mean, you don't even think it's the same kind of floor. Like, right, just these two are both not vinyl. They can't be. I mean, so, but you know, not everybody needs, you know, bulletproof vinyl and needs to spend that much money. So, yeah, figure out what works best for you. Uh, obviously there's different installation materials and requirements for each different kind of

product. Uh, a big one actually is a moisture barrier.

Okay.

In vinyl installation, something that, uh, is coming up, uh, that we didn't know because the manufacturers didn't tell us is that your vinyl should have a moisture barrier underneath, a poly binding. It, it Looks a lot like, uh, painter's plastic.

Okay.

And it serves a lot of the same function, uh, but it's meant as a moisture barrier to protect your floor.

Okay.

Because moisture is getting trapped underneath and curling the, the planks, and it's turning into a bit of an issue, uh, down, you know, in the southern part of the country where we don't have basements.

Humidity exists.

Where there's humidity and, uh, we have concrete subfloors. We don't have basements.

Right.

So most of the installations are done on foundations. Mm-hmm. And it, I mean, rains a lot, it floods a lot down here. So people are getting water damage from their slab on their vinyl, which manufacturers didn't know, the flooring companies didn't know, installers didn't know. Yeah. And we're finding it out. And well, now it's, you know, we've been full steam ahead on this vinyl without really knowing and having a lot of track record.

Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that their Uh, like, their, their concrete foundations, I mean, like, while hard, are a giant sponge.

Yeah.

And, uh, are not impenetrable.

No.

I mean, like, people— many people are very, very surprised when I, when I tell them how many openings in their foundation that there really are that go all the way through to the ground. Yeah. You know, and there's many. Yeah, there have to be.

And, you know, there's sometimes where you can, you know, and we train to look at the floor and try to find problems before the installation starts. That way we can kind of prepare the customer And, you know, you take off all the, the floor. I mean, because flooring is cosmetic.

Right?

It doesn't, doesn't serve any structural purpose of the house. It's just to make your floor look pretty.

Right?

Right. You take off the floor, and there are visible wet spots.

Yeah.

I mean, there's been no water damage, but there are wet spots in your foundation.

Mhmm.

And it's, I mean, it's, it's not even something you have to describe. Like, you see that, and you don't even have to tell them it's a wet spot. People don't realize how much water comes through, and flooring is very, very expensive.

Yeah. I mean, like, around here, I can't tell you the number of times people have told me, like, hey, can you just seal up all the weep holes in my house? And I'm like, no. I'm not— no. I'm not killing you and your family. Not today.

Rather not.

Yeah. No.

And it's a shame.

For people— for people that don't know, I mean, like, that's how you get moisture out of your house typically in a brick home is like you leave those weep holes so that it can weep the moisture out.

Yeah.

So that you don't get water on your flooring, so that you don't get those moisture pools in low-lying areas in your foundation and things like that. So I mean, it doesn't solve all the problems, but it definitely, you know, doesn't create any. Correct. You know.

And everyone, everyone is different. I mean, you know, it could be there's moisture in your slab just because you have wet ground underneath you. It could be because you have cracking in the pipe that's in the slab. It could be a number of things, but we don't know it. And it's— it's everyone, every situation is different, every house is different, and they're all messed up here in Houston. Every slab is messed up. Yeah, whether you know it yet or not, you'll find out enough. It's, it's messed up.

Yeah. So, okay, so vinyl, and then I'm, I'm guessing laminate from there. And, and does And I don't, I don't know if you guys do this, but I know it's like the brand that everyone always does. But is Pergo laminate? Mhmm.

Pergo is laminate.

Pergo is laminate. Okay.

Pergo is a name brand.

Right.

And I think that they are doing resilient flooring now is what they call, which is vinyl. But Pergo has and always been laminate, and it's actually a brand that's owned by Mohawk. Okay. And they do a great job as far as what it will last and the scratch resistance and the water resistance.

Is that, is that a brand you guys work with?

Uh, no. Pergo is actually—

they're like exclusive to, to the big box stores. Okay, that's what I thought. Um, but you guys can get very similar products?

Yeah, they're owned by Mohawk, and you can get Mohawk products through the, through the retailers.

Uh-huh.

Pergo has started to seep into some of the retail stores, uh, but it's not a very common thing yet. Yeah.

Uh, so, so let me ask you this. I mean, just for people's own— like, like Pergo, I Is it exclusively to Home Depot?

Yes.

Okay. So, but like, if you go get Mohawk flooring, which you have access to, is it any different?

No. I mean, the pictures are different. It's actually a better product.

Oh, okay.

Uh, I mean, you can get, uh, cheaper stuff in Mohawk, but most of your Pergo that's sold in Home Depot is not 12 millimeters thick. Right, right. It's, it's 10 millimeters, which is better than the contractor of the Yeah, because you can get like 7 mil on there, right? Yeah, some of the more cheap stuff.

Labor Day sale. Yes, that's what it is. Absolutely.

Closeout stuff. This is your— yeah, in the front of the store kind of thing. Uh, and just the purpose behind a thicker laminate is twofold. One, when something is more thin, it's— that's where you get that click-clacky sound, right? It's, um, it's going to be much more loud. It doesn't sound like wood. you know, they do a really good job making it look like wood, but then when someone walks on it or the dogs walk on it and their nails carry, the, the more thin the plank, the more noisy it sounds.

Okay.

But also twofold, it's dimensional stability, uh, which is fancy words for doesn't bend. Obviously, the more thick the plank, the less likely it is to bend. So if you've got a lot of water in an area and you're trying to clean it up, well, if you step on the plank and it's more thin, It's more likely to flex.

Interesting.

Where the planks meet. And if it flexes, water can seep in that little area, and then you've got moisture in between your 2 planks and your floor is ruined. So the more thick the floor, actually, the better dimensionally stable it is, uh, will be less likely to flex. And usually when you see wearing in laminate, be that from water damage or just from wearing, it's at the corners. The reason that is is because it's a more thick I'm sorry, more thin plank. And so your socks just walking on it has flexed that one plank just a little bit lower, and you slide your foot across and it catches that next plank on the edge, and

it just wears the image off eventually.

Huh.

But that to say, it is very good stuff and on the rise. I mean, much of the Mohawk brand actually specifically is on backorder.

Really?

Indefinitely almost.

Indefinitely? Oh my gosh.

A lot of this stuff is, you know, 3 and 4 months behind. just because how popular it is. RevWood is their brand for, uh, the retailers.

Okay.

Uh, but they actually, uh, they're made in America and they're, um, they open, open up a new plant here stateside. I'm sorry, open up another plant, uh, specifically for our market, and it— they're still not able to keep up with the demand. Uh, we're learning of issues with vinyl installations mainly the water issues that we have down here. And laminate is taking back over. It's, uh, it's— I mean, something we've done since the '70s and '80s, right? We know about it, uh, from the cheapest, cheapest stuff to the most expensive stuff. It's like a $3, $4 swing different to vinyl.

$3, $4 per square foot?

Per square foot difference from the highest to the highest, highest, highest to the lowest, right? Whereas, you know, vinyl, hardwood, you know, you're talking about, you know, $15 to $20 difference from the highest to the lowest. Like, it's just—

that's crazy.

Yeah. So you can get some really, really, really good stuff and not have to pay, you know, out the nose for it.

Is it— do you think the popularity is just because of the affordability compared to, like, some of the other— I mean, because, I mean, like, correct me if I'm wrong, but, like, it's cheaper than hardwood, it's cheaper than tile.

Yes. Uh, usually dollar for dollar, the laminate and the vinyl are going to be neck and neck.

Okay.

There are obvious exceptions both ways, uh, but the laminate is becoming more popular because it's, I mean, much better for scratching than vinyl. The, the new technology is making it more and more waterproof. We've got waterproofs that actually have a submersion warranty of 300 hours. That's something like 10 days it can be submerged and still be installed as a floor. So I mean, it's about as waterproof as you can get, right? So all the technology is making it more waterproof. It's more thick. It feels like wood. It's warmer. It's softer. I mean, the vinyl is stone core, so it is a little bit harder. And so laminate is actually absolutely making a comeback because it is cost effective and it's the family floor.

Right. Yeah. You can look nice, not having to spend as much money. Right. And you don't care if so much if it only lasts 10 years because by then, Susie and Johnny are off to school.

Right. And even then, in 10 years or 15 years when you move out, a good cleaning and the floor is still good.

Right.

You know, unfortunately, the, uh, the technology that they use to protect vinyl, uh, is similar kind of idea to like a car, right, with clear coats on the top, right? The more clear coats that you put, the more protective of the paint, but you can scratch and get like swirls, little micro swirls into the finish. We found out that that was happening to vinyl. So now there's a lot of all the new technologies making it more scratch protectant. You know, coating it with the top to make sure that, you know, you get the microabrasions down. But, you know, we're learning that now and putting it in the floor. Unfortunate for the people that all—

All put it in already. Yeah, right. Well, and so one of the other things, uh, was there anything else about the flooring throughout the house you wanted to, to hit on?

Not really. Uh, the hardwood is, uh, a beautiful option. All the planks are, uh, are unique. And it's still a good option for people in their homes. Just make sure, just like with everything else, you know what you're getting yourself into and you're willing to commit the resources, be that time, be that money, uh, or extra care in taking care of whatever the specific floor is that you pick for your wants and needs of your home.

Yeah.

You know, you don't want to have, you know, 3 German Shepherds and 4 children with hardwood floors. It's just not a good idea. Could you do it?

Yeah.

Could you keep up with it? Absolutely. Is it going to take a lot of time and money to make sure that stuff stays good? Absolutely. And if you're willing to pay that price, have at it.

If you like it, I love it.

Yeah, yeah.

It's those dog nails, man, every time.

It really is. And then it's, it's not even scratching. I mean, there's 3 kinds of scratches, right, in the flooring world. There's scratching, there's gouging, and there's microabrasions. Gouging is when you're moving, you're pushing the refrigerator, and there was a bolt that was stuck underneath, and you've now Yeah, cut into the wood. Yeah, right. Uh, scratching, uh, is when you're, you know, dragging the suitcase and that little plastic wheel cuts into it just right and you've now scratched the floor. Uh, microabrasions is if you dumped, you know, a bag of sand on your floor and went dancing on it, or you see those little swirl marks, right? You don't see it right off the bat, but when you look down the hallway and you see the light coming in from the

window, you know, you can see where Skippy's taken a right-hand turn to get to his bowl for the last 5 years. You know, it's just a lot of wear in that one little area.

Yeah.

And you don't know that for, you know, several years worth of wear. And that's what we're finding out is happening with the, uh, vinyl and the wood floors.

Okay. Well, so I, I really wanted to, to ask you, because you were— you're telling me you're fixing to fly out to pick up this truck.

Yeah.

And you're— because you're doing this, this mobile show center, is that That right?

That's correct. Okay.

Uh, tell me about this thing because like this sounds, this sounds interesting.

Backing up a little bit, uh, I don't know if you, uh, were around for this, but, uh, we had a coronavirus that came through and was getting everybody sick.

And what's this now?

Coronavirus.

Okay.

It was a real bad sickness. It was kind of like, uh, well, I don't go there. Uh, but it was keeping everybody indoors and it's changed so many different markets. And in ours, It, people weren't coming out to shop for floors. You know, they were wanting to stay home, and there was all kinds of great ideas for digital showrooms and, you know, Zoomcasts to show the different kinds of floors.

Yeah.

And then, you know, contactless. Let me just drop samples off. There's a lot of different things. But many, many businesses, not just flooring, many of them developed some way to bring your wares to the customer.

Okay.

You know, even Walmart and H-E-B and Kroger have the, the pickup areas. Right? Where you shop and you drive and they load you up. uh, mobile showrooms became very, very popular. Now, it's not a new idea. I'm sure you've heard of Empire Floors or 50 Floors or Express Floors in our area. I mean, Empire Floors has been around for, I think, something close to 100 years.

Oh, wow.

And that's, that's what they do. They don't have a single showroom in the country. They just bring samples out to your house from a questionnaire that you, uh, get asked when they call you on the phone or when you call them. And then they bring samples and with it there. Uh, that's one way to buy floors. And then the other way is to go into a showroom, right? But, you know, even before COVID started, there was a, um, a couple of common misconceptions with flooring showrooms. One, they're going to be more expensive, right? You know, they're a specialty store. You know, yeah, it's probably good quality, but they're going to be more expensive. You know, most people start off their floor shopping at Lowe's and Home Depot, which is why they are the number 1 and number 2 flooring companies in the country. And

every single one of them, uh, has difficulties with installation. Um, but that's where everybody goes first because they're scared of going to a retailer. They want— they don't want to be met with high prices. They don't want to have a salesman sell them. It's just there's a lot of misconceptions about flooring showrooms.

Uh, well, even though— They, they have— they do have high-pressure salesmen working this, the flooring sections of those big box stores.

Yeah.

They, they just do.

And man, some of the, some of the stories that I've got that have just some of the dumbest stuff that I've been told was at the box stores. I've done a lot of shopping, uh, just to kind of see where everybody likes to hide their prices and where all the price points are at. And man, I've heard some dumb, dumb stuff. But that's for a story for another time.

Probably a separate podcast right there.

That's a separate podcast of good stories. But, uh, mobile showrooms were not something new. They've, uh, researched, uh, unfortunately, uh, Empire and the big guys that do it, they don't really have mobile showrooms. They give samples to the, um, uh, to the salesman, and they go out to the house. And actually, a lot of the flooring companies, uh, now, uh, they're, you know, shop from home, or they're offering a shop at home service. And, and that's what that is. They talk to you over the phone. They figure out, you know, what are some colors that you think you like?

Yeah.

And they will send a salesman out to your house and show you those colors. Well, unfortunately, not everybody's an interior designer, and unless you've been looking around and you've done some studying, you really know what you want, it's hard to describe to someone over the phone, you know, do you want brown or gray? Do you want rustic or formal? Do you want light or dark? You know, how much knots do you want? I mean, it's a very hard thing to do.

Yeah.

And unfortunately, those salesmen are limited to how much they can carry out. I mean, you can't get a whole showroom out someone's house. And unfortunately, the, the mobile showrooms, they have what's called chain sets. It's, uh, an entire line with 15 samples usually in one little— it's connected by a chain, and they're usually little, you know, 10-inch by 10-inch squares of the material. And it's, here, take a look at this little 10-inch square. Can you imagine this in your whole house?

No, I can't. No.

But I mean, the, the people that shop for that kind of stuff, they don't go into the showrooms. They don't go to Lowe's or Home Depot. In fact, uh, most of the bigger companies that did the shop at home in my research I found that largely they were more than double the price of not just ourselves, but our competition as well. I mean, we're very competitive in the marketplace.

Sure.

And, and there's not a whole, whole lot difference in the pricing. But the, the companies that do the retail like, like that, the, the shop-at-home service for a long time, they are in a lot of cases more than double the price, literally double the price per square foot. for that flooring. And that just tells me that the customer that does that doesn't shop. I mean, they just—

They're just not shopping around. I mean, they want convenience.

You can call anybody and get a better price than that, a much better price. They want that convenience. Right? So, yes, there are mobile showrooms around, and there's been some really interesting ideas up north. They've got guys that are actually repurposing ambulances.

Oh, wow.

And, like, Flooring Doctor, I think, is one of them, and it looks like an ambulance, and they've got all the different kind of floors. I mean, some really interesting stuff. So we've taken that and putting our own, put our own unique spin on it. What we've done and are doing and are gonna continue to do is, yes, we are gonna have that showroom experience where you can come in with your designer and you can lay all the samples out and the cabinets and all, all that stuff in the actual showroom. But if you want that shop-at-home experience, we are actually gonna be able to give you a shop-at-home experience. We're getting 16-foot box trucks.

Mhmm.

Equipping them to hold several hundred of the large samples in them. and sending them out to your house. Now the intention is not to go in the truck. That's a big insurance faux pas.

Uh-huh.

But I want the guys there to have everything that's needed because, you know, not everybody is a flooring expert, right?

Right.

They need help. And you think that you want gray and then, you know, in— it looks great in the showroom and then you take it to your house and it's—

It doesn't pop.

It's a totally different color because your lighting is different or your cabinets are a little bit more brown. You thought they were gray and now the flooring doesn't work. Well, now you have to trudge them all back into the car and schlep them up to the, uh, to the showroom and then do it all over again.

Yeah.

You know, the salesman now can't come out there and give you a price because we don't have the materials. So you got to do that over. So I wanted to be able to have the customer to see, one, the full large size sample. And if it's the wrong color, cool. The guys will run back out to the truck, get the whole thing, and come back at once.

Yeah.

And it's, um—

So is it— is this a deal where, like, they're gonna have to be, like, onesie-twosie and out of the back of the truck? Are you gonna be able to, like, take, like, the whole, like, set of samples and just, like, roll them up to the house?

Well, you don't wanna take too much.

Sure.

As when you're shopping, too much is, is actually will hurt you.

Right.

Having some, you telling someone what you want and then them bringing it to you.

Right.

Honestly is the easiest way to shop. And so that's what it will be. You know, first we go into the house, take a look, tell me what you're looking for. You know, you know, light or dark or this, that. And then the guys go back out to the truck, bring a few samples out and start it from there. This one's a little bit darker, this one's a little bit lighter. Which one do you like? You know, oh, I actually kind of like this one, but can we get a little bit more of this? Absolutely, let me go get it in the truck. And then I pull 2 or 3 more things that have whatever that quality is

that they wanted, and we can really narrow down in the house. That way there's not a back and forth. We can get it all taken care of right there for you, make it simple. You don't have to worry about coming out to the showroom, planning, you know, getting all the kids loaded up into the car to get them all down there, which is a— an experience.

Yes.

You know, a production, if you will. Um, everybody's there at home. It's more relaxed, and it's a much easier and much more pleasant buying experience. Yeah. Uh, so we're kind of—

You don't feel as bad about spanking your children in your own home as you do out in public.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Just give him a good thrashing right in front of the salesman. Show him, show him what he's missing if he hasn't had kids yet.

Let him know if he doesn't give you that price that you you're looking for.

That's right. Come for you next, buddy.

Yeah, to make the price go up or down.

You never know.

Some people are different.

Or they could use the kids as leverage. Yeah. Should I stop?

But, uh, yeah, we want to be able to take that, um, the very successful business model of, you know, the empires of the world, right? But also take that— not take away that showroom experience, that seeing the bigger sample to really make sure that you've picked the right thing. Because flooring is expensive no matter what you pick.

It's—

it is expensive. And, you know, it's something that is not— if you get the wrong color in a car, I mean, you're gonna get another one. And, you know, statistics say 3 to 5 years, right? You just pick a different color then. Flooring, the, uh, the average, the statistics are 13 years.

Really?

That's the— that's the age of a floor before it goes into something new.

Hmm.

Uh, so it's down there for a much longer time. It's like moving, man.

You just don't want to, like, you don't want to mess with it once you get it down.

Right, right. And much of, you know, much of our industry does follow people moving in and out of a home, purchasing of the home. People want to get the floor done before they move in. That way they don't have to worry about it.

Yeah.

And so, I mean, it's, it's helpful. We found it to be very helpful. Customers overwhelmingly love that shop-at-home experience that, uh, that the showrooms and the other flooring companies have been trying to adapt. Mhmm. And we're looking to take that and crank up the dial and make it even easier for the customer to shop because they can't literally can shop the entire line from their house.

So can you, I mean, because you guys are, I, I, you say you're doing cabinets and countertops and, you know, flooring and, and all these kinds of things. I mean, would it, would it be difficult for you guys if, say, someone's remodeling the bathroom? You know, could you guys then— and they're like, hey, we wanna redo the backsplash of the, of the tub. That's something you guys can, can do as well?

Absolutely.

Okay.

Absolutely. The only things we don't have right now, I mean, and we have people that can do these things, you know, other companies that we can refer that we've done business with before.

Right.

But the only things that we don't do specifically is the plumbing. Right? Because, I mean, a lot of that stuff, if the plumbing hasn't been touched for 15 years, and my guy goes and tries to screw it back on to help the customer, well, there's a good chance he can torque that pipe just, just enough to make a hairline fracture in the wall. And now, you know, we're beat, and it was honestly a plumbing thing. So, uh, we don't, we don't do the plumbing ourselves.

Okay.

Uh, we do, we'll put back on a toilet for the customer just because it's a pretty simple thing. Uh, and then we don't do glass.

Okay. Like mirrors and things like that. Okay.

Mirrors, uh, the glass, frameless glass, are for showers and whatnot.

Uh, I'm on a mission to eradicate that anyway. I hate those things.

They're, uh, they're very difficult. And there's no such thing as, yeah, this glass is not going to give you water spots.

They're lying. Yeah, they're lying. They're lying. They're all liars.

It's not true. Doesn't matter how much money you spend. Yeah, it's gonna happen.

So I mean, like, uh, I haven't, I haven't had a— I don't have a door I don't have glass on my shower. Nothing. And it is the most glorious thing ever. There's nothing to clean.

Yep. School shower. It's just a big area, couple of drains on the floor, and you could do whatever.

I'm good to go, man.

So much—

people are like, don't you get cold? No. The water is hot.

Yeah.

I'm fine. I don't, I don't understand the need. It's like, but, and like, I also don't understand, like, you're like telling me, well, I need, like, I need to, like, have that separation in the room. From who? Like, what? Like, it's glass. You can see through it.

Yeah. A lot of people are doing, uh, some— or half walls, pony walls, to accomplish the same thing. If they want to have some kind of privacy, yeah, uh, they'll do a pony wall and maybe a piece of glass on top of the pony wall that's, that's frosted.

That's what ours has. I guess you call it a pony wall. I mean, it's like, it's, it's so we could put a seat in the shower. That's all it's there for. Yeah.

So, I mean, That sort of function.

Yeah, so, and it keeps the water from splashing everywhere.

I mean, but who cares? It'll dry off.

It's fine.

All right, style, style.

It'll be fine. Um, wipe it up with a towel.

But yeah, everything else, um, we can get done, and that was the idea. We want to make it one-stop shop, ease. I mean, that's our, our whole thing about the trucks is we want to make it easier for the customer to make a buying experience that is a fun, comfortable, and correct thing for them. You know, that's not a just throw our hands up and, oh, what, now we got the floor done? Well, now we've gotta, you know, bring in our cabinet sample. And, you know, we brought the cabinet sample and picked the floors. Well, now that cabinet color is on backorder for 6 months, and we're gonna have to go something different. Well, that's now gonna change the floor. And

you're, you know, running all over town trying to be a general contractor. Right. Yeah. So we're trying to make that, uh, eliminate that for the most part. And we can do it, get most if not all of the remodel done that you're wanting, uh, and being able to bring all of your countertops, all of your cabinets, all of your flooring options, and you can literally shop in person in your living room.

Are you guys on the, on the countertops, are you guys able to do stone? Are you guys just—

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's stone. Um, the, the most popular thing right now is quartz. Uh, and it's very, very resilient, you know, from scorching and staining and whatnot. I mean, the technology has advanced, I mean, tremendously. Uh, granite is still done, uh, it's just more the cost-effective option, uh, for getting your countertops done.

Quartzes or granite?

Granite.

Oh, really? It's more cost-effective?

Yeah, most of the time. There's obviously— you'll find exceptions to the rule. Um, there's, you know, countertops that are fabricated. I'm sorry, they're, they're— the stone is fabricated itself. Right?

Okay.

So a lot of those will get— it can get cheaper. But for the most part, your granites are gonna be a little bit cheaper. And then the quartz, I mean, 90% of what's installed is quartz. You do still have marble in some instances, but the quartz looks just as pretty as the marble in many circumstances, and people can't justify spending You know, $100, $200 per square foot on material. It's just not in the wheelhouse.

Yeah.

Now, I mean, and while that does sound bad, you're not talking about a whole bunch of square foot, but, uh, I mean, it adds up. It adds up pretty good. Yeah.

So, I mean, like, you're a big kitchen. So you're saying marble is gonna be like hundreds?

It could be. So, and the difference being quartz could be, uh, I mean, most of your quartz, you're looking anywhere between $20 to $50 a foot. I mean, some of it can get more, but I mean, for the most part, what people are picking is neutral.

So you're getting 2 to 3 times the amount of material for the same amount of money, right?

Yeah. So you're talking about a countertop being between $3,000 and the super design beautiful, oh my goodness, look at your countertop, right? $9,000 for the same square foot.

Yeah, right.

So it is a large amount, but in the scope of the remodel, if your, if your island is going to be large and your big hallmark piece, you know, spending $9,000 out of a, you know, what's going to be, you know, could be $70,000, $80,000 remodel, right? You know, extra $6,000 to make it—

Yes.

Next level.

Not that, not that big of a deal.

Yeah, right, right. It's just depending on what you are wanting to do, where you're wanting the design element in the room to be, where the accents are gonna be, and how your total project is gonna look.

Cool. And anything we hadn't, we hadn't covered yet?

Um, no. Uh, I mean, a little bit about us, uh, from the installation side, um, because it is a little bit different. There's not very many companies out there that actually stand behind what they do, uh, for large amounts of time. Uh, most of your warranties in flooring are going to be on the labor only, right? And usually for a year or 2. Um, you know, they say, you know, oh well, if something bad is going to happen because of the labor, you know, it's going to happen pretty quickly after the floor. And if that was true, uh, warranty it for longer. Yeah, yeah, warranty it for longer.

Cool.

I mean, that's— hey, not a problem. Uh, so we actually have a lifetime guarantee.

Okay.

So not only is it a couple years, but it is forever that you own the home. And if you're selling the home, uh, and if the house is sold, uh, within, I mean, a reasonable amount of time of selling the house, you can't 5 years down the road transfer it to the next person that's gonna have the house for 30 years.

Sure.

But, uh, for the lifetime that you own the floor, uh, we will stand behind our product. If something happens to the floor because of how we install it, we will, uh, repair or replace the materials, the setting materials, the labor, the whole thing. Because that's the other thing. You know, some companies do have a 15-year labor warranty, but then they don't cover the product. So what that looks like is something happens to the floor, and they should have installed because they didn't see this, and the manufacturer deems, yep, that is installation error. And the company says, okay, yep, our bad. Sorry, you've gone through all this hassle so far because it takes a while for manufacturers to get their act together.

Right.

It's been 4 months that you are— 4 months, it's been 4 weeks, 4 to 6 weeks. They've got someone out there. Yep, we are installation error. The floor— flooring company says, ah, our bad. You know, you paid $10,000 for this flooring. Cool. The labor or the warranty will come in. Not a problem, Mr. Customer. That's $2,000. So as long as you come up with another $8,000, we'll use the warranty and we'll come and replace your floors. Which is not what you're wanting to hear.

No.

I mean, what do you mean? Y'all messed up my floor. Fix it. Oh, we absolutely will. That's what the warranty's for. But, you know, the warranty's on the labor. And some people get—

It feels like shenanigans and trickery.

And it gets even worse because they'll say, oh, no. Well, we have a 15-year warranty, and the product has a 25-year warranty. So you're good. Well, no, that's not true. Because if you have to use their labor warranty, it's because the product was installed incorrectly, which voids the manufacturer's warranty. All the manufacturer's warranties are voided if it's not installed right. So then you do need to purchase the material. Those manufacturer's warranties are for defective product. And so they, they try to use, you know, the wording and, oh yeah, look, it's like the same thing, but And people get taken advantage of.

Chasing tails around it. Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

And another, unfortunately, uh, the biggest one in our industry for is extra charges. Make sure that if you're ever doing a flooring project, you have a total and final price. There's no, uh, there's no additions for this and, well, we didn't know it had this, or we didn't know it had that. That's what you have flooring professionals for. Yeah. Uh, the biggest one in our industry is called float. It's leveling the floor, right? It's concrete that's meant to flatten out the floor, not level it. It levels itself, right?

But it's meant to flatten the floor.

Yeah, correct. Um, and it's expensive.

Yeah, it is.

And unfortunately, people aren't as familiar with float, uh, and you don't— you truly don't know how much you're gonna need. Yes, if you're very, very, very skilled, you can kind of guesstimate by walking on the floor where the low and the high spots are. Uh, but it's, it's a requirement from the manufacturers to keep their warranties that the floor have a certain amount of pitch. Vinyl is very, very, very stringent on that right now. Um, and they don't know how much float they're gonna need, so they don't include any, or they include one bag for every 100 square foot.

Mm-hmm.

Or 150 square foot, right? Which is enough to get started. And if there's extra, you know, we'll worry about that later, right? So, well, no, no, no, let's worry about it now. And then you ask, and well, it's like, you know, can be $80 a bag. Most of the time when you ask ahead of time, they, they know that you know, so, right? So they're going to keep with the, the market average, which is like $30, $40 a bag.

Mm-hmm.

But if you don't know and you don't ask about it and you're trying to go, you know, well, hold on, you said this was $8,000. I went with you because you were $8,000. The other guy was $8,400. What do you mean it's now $11,500? What happened? Oh, well, we needed float. Well, what's float? Well, it's this. Well, how much is it? It's $100 a bag. Well, how many bags? Well, look, there's 27 bags here on the floor.

Yeah.

Oh, man. Yeah. You just had the worst floors I have ever seen. And then they take half of those empty bags and load them back up in the truck to take them to the next job.

Yeah.

To show, hey, look. Yep. You needed 20 bags. You know, 15 of them, they've made tens of thousands of dollars on because they keep reusing the empty bags. I mean, it's just, it's bad and people don't know. Yeah. And it's, it's right there in small print in the contract. Or if you ask, how much is it for float? Oh, don't worry, we include the float. How much float?

Right. Is it—

and then the way that you need to be on that—

follow-up question.

Exactly. The easy— to keep all the hassle out of it, make sure you have a closed contract when you sign. I mean, you would never go buy a car if you didn't know the total and final price, right? Never, ever, ever sign a contract that you don't know the total price of. It's not a quote.

Well, what you just said though is people don't pay attention to that because what they try and do to you, and I'm thinking about the car thing in particular, is rather than show you the last and final price, what do you want to pay a month is the question they ask you.

Yeah.

Because then all of a sudden, you don't care what the total is.

It's, can I afford it?

Can I afford it? Exactly.

You know, and, and the way that looks, what that looks like in the flooring company is, well, how much is your labor? How much do you charge per foot? How much do you charge per foot? There is literally, and I'm not gonna name any names or throw anybody on the bus, there is literally a very prominent flooring company in The Woodlands, Montgomery, Conroe area.

Sure.

That, and I, I tested this myself. I've had customers that came in and would tell me, hey, this happened, check this out. I went and did it myself. They came out to my house, they had the square foot, the per square foot price, and you take this number, you multiply it by this number, it should equal what the total is. Doesn't. It's a number plus, you know, a certain percentage.

Yeah.

I guess for a tip, I don't know. But, uh, people are so focused on that per square foot price, the monthly payment in cars. They're so focused on this that they're not paying attention to this. And it's the total price is what's important. And it not just being a total price, but a final price.

Yeah.

By contract. Do not sign a contract that says, we might charge later. We might not.

Yeah.

We'll let you know. Because that, that can be dangerous. And it's— people don't know it. But if you go and search float scam online, it happens often, and you just— you don't know what you don't know.

It's actually called a thing.

It's called a float scam, and it's mainly prevalent down south because of the concrete foundation. Whenever they're pouring your foundation, they're not trying to make it perfectly flat. They're trying to get it done and get on to the next house.

Sure. Yeah. Right?

And even then, even if it was someone who's trying to make it flat, you know, it dries. And the nature of it drying or curing, the, the water leaves and it will change the how it's, you know, bonded together, which will cause dips and gaps. And, and you just have to repair that.

Hmm. How— I mean, like, I'm sitting here wondering, like, I wonder why. I mean, I assume it's just because people want their projects done, why they don't have it floated after the foundation is done.

Couple reasons.

Yeah.

It's not always needed. Right? Carpet, it doesn't matter how flat the floor is, it's carpet, soft and fuzzy. You don't need it, and it's an extra cost. You know, you gotta think about it. Um, um, the average, right? Large-scale averages. You look, you're usually using about a bag of float for every 60, 70 square foot. Um, now it's an average, right? Some houses don't need any, some houses need a lot. Right. I had a ba— a house one time that we did. Um, they needed 30 bags of float for a 600 square foot area. Mm-hmm. Just a tremendous amount. And had that been anyone else, you know, that, you know, $7 a square foot times,

uh, 6— 600 square foot, you know, $4,200 times 30 bags of float and $100 a bag.

Is it $100 a bag?

Uh, if you don't ask about it ahead of time. You'd be surprised out there how many—

That's what people are charging for is $100 a bag. Like, is it like $100 a bag installed?

Yep.

Okay. Yeah, that makes more sense. I mean, I'm not saying it's reasonable. I'm just saying, like, no, I mean, like, if you're telling me, like, if I had to go to the store and it was $100 a bag, I'm like, that's ridiculous. But if you're telling me it's $100 a bag installed, that in my brain, that makes way more sense than—

Yeah, in the, in the marketplace for people that charge for float, Usually, you know, $25, $30 a bag is fair.

Installed?

Installed. Yeah. The, the actual bag of concrete itself, uh, I mean, depending on what kind you get, right? I mean, it could be, you know, $25 at Lowe's or Home Depot. You know, obviously the flooring companies that buy it, they're buying it in bulk.

Yeah.

Don't pay that. But I mean, if you were to go do it yourself, you know, it is self-leveling. There's not a lot to it. You put it in the bucket, put the water, mix it up, and pour it on your floor.

Yeah.

Right? So there's not a lot of labor associated with it other than carrying the concrete. But it's, it's unfortunate that houses are so different. Uh, to answer your question, you know, carpet, you don't need it. Uh, tile, you really don't want to use it.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and get a lot more into the details of that. But float is concrete, mortar's concrete, foundation is concrete. And if you start doing different layers, sound reverberates differently through each layer. Okay. And so if you have areas that have a big patch of float and you put mortar on top of that, it sounds differently. And unfortunately, that sound is hollow. Most people think of that as hollow. Now, if you have a hollow spot in your tile, it's different, right?

Right.

It's a very pointed— you can usually draw a circle as where that hollow spot is. But if a whole area sounds hollow, it's because they had to put a lot of float down. You know, the, the best way is to use extra mortar. That way there's not, you know, the difference in the density of the material substrate. Uh, it's more expensive that way.

Sure.

But it gives you a much better install. So you don't want to put float preemptively down because it could give you a less installation. Plus, um, I mean, there's, there's no reason to do it from the builder's side because it's a cost that doesn't need to be there. I mean, most of the people are gonna, you know, take it up and do something different anyways, and you're you're just gonna be ripping it all up. If you glue down hardwood, for example, if you put tile on top of it, when you take out that glued-up hardwood, all the float's coming with it. You know, the glue, the, uh, the stronger than that, meant to adhere and chemically bond to concrete. Yeah. And the concrete sticking to itself, it's not going to, uh,

adhere the same way. So the glue takes up all the float with it. So now you got to redo the job anyway.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah. Which is why float is so prevalent Uh, carpet, glue-down wood, and tile jobs usually need the most float, uh, because if there's laminate, vinyl, or a floating hardwood, yeah, there's usually— it was floated to some degree ahead of time by the previous people that did it. And so there's— if you need some, it's usually not much, right?

Okay.

But if you're taking out carpet, again, tile, or glue-down hardwood, which is all over the place, uh, you're gonna need a lot of float. Hmm. And that gets—

that scam really irks me, man.

Oh, you'd be surprised. You want to get irked more? Google it when we're done with this. You'd be surprised how many people in this area— I mean, common, if you go look at reviews of some of the other flooring companies in the area. Yeah, most of the bad reviews are due to either something happened during the install or extra charges. I mean, it's, it's unfortunately as well known in the industry And so it's, uh, it's commonplace. It's like a— that's just part of it.

Yeah.

You know, there are some flooring companies out there that— and we are one of those— that it is a total and final price, right? It's required for the installation, so I'm not going to charge the customer for it. I mean, yes, we buy a whole bunch of it in bulk, and, you know, so it's much, much more cost effective, but it's not worth it to have that that last point of contact with the customer to be, uh, sorry, it's trying to get you for a little more, thousands more dollars, you know, even if it's hundreds more dollars, you know, you can spend a week in someone's house turning it into something beautiful that they love, and then that's what you leave them with. Yeah, it just— that's not how we want to operate our business. And

so it's easy enough to—

It's, it's a company that's not valuing the relationship. Because like, like we said earlier, they, they're probably looking at the numbers going, I'm not going to see this person for 13 years, you know, because I already got it.

We're already in the house.

Yeah, I might as well get it for all that we can.

Let's give them a low price at the start and, you know, put a change order in there halfway through the job and oh no, now we're more expensive. But by that time your flooring's all demoed and all torn up and what are you going to do? You're going to kick these people out of the house and get on my schedule and wait 2 weeks? No. By that time, you're just—

This is— this is why it's— it's— it's important, I think, because, like, on Facebook, a lot of times when I see this, people will say, I need a recommendation for, you know. And— and— and you and I— you and I both know this, that there are groups of people out there that exist solely for the purpose of tagging their friends, even though they've never used their services.

Yeah.

And they're— they are literally there just to spam people's comment section.

Yeah.

With their buddy's name.

Yeah. That's a big thing in the neighborhood groups right now.

Yes. And instead of, I need personal testimonies. I need someone that you've actually used and done business with. It's a totally different question. You know, because you— if you ask that question and you say, I, I need— I need, like, I need a plumber that you've actually had clear a, a line in your house.

Mhmm.

And someone says such and such is the best in the business. It's like, okay. You didn't answer my question. Yeah. You're just spamming my box at this point.

You're not even listening.

Yeah. You're not— you're not paying attention. You don't know the rules of the game. It's like, and if people just learn to, like, to just to ask that question, then they know exactly who to ignore.

Yep.

Because there, there are so many fake players out there that just want to boost their buddy's business. And, like, I, I get it. You're being loyal to your friends and all that kinda stuff.

Yep.

Good for you. But, like, people want to know who you've actually done business with. They wanna know your actual experience.

Yep.

With, with someone. And, you know, you don't wanna be the guy in the comment section that causes someone to have a really bad day.

Absolutely.

Because you just blindly referred somebody.

Yep. And, you know, even, even not as nefarious as that, you know, someone has a good experience, they put it on there.

Right. You know?

I mean, I would say for any business that's been in business for longer than a year, you're halfway decent at doing whatever it is that you're doing.

More than likely.

More than likely. Most of the time, you're doing a good job.

Right.

But it's how people take care of the problems, the backend stuff.

Right.

You know, the most popular thing when people go to look at the reviews, you can have 100 5-star reviews.

You wanna read the 1-star.

They wanna read the 1-star. And that is very, very true in flooring. You wanna see what the 1 stars are. Yes. Usually the, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Yeah.

And you wanna see what it was. Was it extra charges? Was it just they didn't come to jobs on time? What, what was the reason for those bad reviews and how did they take care of it?

Yeah.

Right? Because you can, you can have, I mean, you can have one person that had a great experience because it was just a layup, easy install, and the, The stars aligned and it was great. And most people do, they do a good job.

Yeah.

But it's the time where something goes wrong. All right, well, what happened? Well, then, you know, did you have to— you recommended these people, did you have to pay, you know, an extra $3,000 for this? And like, no, for us it was like $200. And it's like, well, dadgum, I mean, $3,000, that was, you know, 20% of this entire project.

Yeah.

And they just, because it's something that's common, they just go with it. You know, in construction and general contracting, it's common that things change during the installation. Yeah. And there's, you know, change orders and there's things that's gotta happen to be do differently. And, and it's just, you don't know. Right?

So, and a lot of people won't speak up just because of fatigue. Like, they're tired of shopping and they're like, well, I got him here now. Yeah. Yeah.

You'd be, yeah. You're absolutely right there. Yeah. But the big thing, the big thing is you wanna make sure that you're, you're protected. The last place you wanna be is with a half-installed floor and they're telling you they need more money.

Yeah.

Or else you're not gonna get your floor finished. And, and it's just, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. They have you and you thought that you did good, you know, shopping around and, you know, not necessarily went with the cheapest company, but you went with the one in the middle. It's got some good reviews and you thought everything would go right. Well, unfortunately, you know, your slab is not as good as some of the other ones, and there's a very good reason. And you signed next to the paper that said, you know, we didn't include float, so there is going to be extra charges for it. Well, now you know why. They were one of the more cost-effective.

Yeah.

And it didn't figure into your calculus, and now it's too late. So always make sure when you put your name next to something— this is a good rule. Unfortunately, it's not, you know, something you can always adhere to in construction, but it's a pretty good rule across the board. in any kind of construction jobs. It's, it's tough, you know. Uh, general contracting is different.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, you know, it plays in obviously with flooring and stuff, and a lot of in their industry you can't. I mean, there's, there's so much of that that changes. But for flooring specifically, you absolutely, uh, should be able to give a customer an exact and final price beforehand because we do, and we're, we're doing pretty good. Good.

Excited to hear it, man. I'm excited to see what you guys are going to do.

And I'm, I'm super excited. I mean, this is— everybody that I've talked to, uh, even, uh, like, uh, water restoration companies, they are super excited because, you know, dealing with insurance is not people's favorite pastime.

Sure.

Nobody's really good at it, uh, and they're in business to make sure they keep the most money that they possibly can and You know, there's no— I mean, there's guidelines, but there's no set rules. So each different one is different. And, you know, when you go out to meet that client, you don't know, you know, the insurance company has approved this one corner of this one room. Like, they're not even gonna do the whole thing when it's all one continuous floor. Like, okay, I go out there to match the floor. Well, that's not what's gonna happen. So now, well, we don't have the right floor here. So since we're not gonna match it, well, we're gonna try to get the insurance company to do the whole thing.

Right.

Okay, well, now, you know, since we're doing the whole thing, what color do you want? Well, I want something drastically different. Well, I brought something to match the floor. I didn't bring something that, you know— and so being able to have all the samples there, like, hey, not a problem. Do you want something lighter or darker? Cool, I'll go get it in the truck. I'll be right back.

Yeah.

Taking care of the first, second, and third meeting with the client on the first meeting, like, hey, we've got these plans, this is what we're going to do. It helps you know, the, the client, because they're like, okay, we're done. This tragic thing that's happening, they've got holes in their ceiling and they're walking around on concrete. I have a plan. If insurance says this, I've got this plan. If insurance says this, I've got this plan. Like, I know what's going to happen. Let's just go see how much we can get this taken care of and we can go that route.

Right.

It's better for the water restoration company because they don't have to worry about it. They know what their clear plan of attack is and what we're going to do depending on what the insurance says that they're going to do to help out the situation.

Yeah.

And it's all taken care of. We don't have to schedule and be going all over town, 3 different appointments for 1 house, which we absolutely will do with a smile on our face to make sure that it's done right. But now it's not needed, right? Having all those samples, having everything there the first time gives the customer peace of mind, gives the, the restoration company peace of mind, gives us peace of mind because we don't have to be, you know, schlepping a 16-foot box truck down to Missouri City from Atascocita.

Right. No fun.

Yeah, no fun. But, uh, everyone that we talk to is pretty excited. You know, they, they, uh, they've seen the little, you know, minivan-sized mobile showrooms driving around, but then when I show them pictures of the box trucks and what they're going to look like, they, uh, they're pretty excited to see it, just to see it.

Yeah. So you guys are gonna have your signage up on the side of it. Everyone's gonna know who it is rolling down the road.

Oh, yeah.

And that's, that's gonna be money right there. It really is. I mean, anytime you can get your brand out there.

Yeah, probably my face on the side right there. That's, that's how you bring yours on the other side.

I'm in.

Everybody knows you're a small fee.

Nominal, nominal. It'll be much less than float.

We'll go shoot some, uh, we'll shoot some vinyl samples.

That needs to happen. We need, we need to—

yeah, we, we need to go over here to Um, hey, oh my gosh, there's a few of them. Saddlebrook is out here.

I'm trying to think of the one that's over here on Blackwood. Blackwood, that's the one we can do it at. Those, those are my buddies. They'll let us, they'll let us shoot anything over there.

Hey, as long as I get to have some of the pieces to take them back to the show and be like, look, this one actually is bulletproof.

We need, we need multiple calibers. So, and this is what we can do. We need to make it a competition between the manufacturers.

You know, I could get material donated. That's not a problem.

Yeah. We can have a shoot-off.

What a great thing to have in Texas. Look.

Right?

You can shoot this floor.

Shoot your floor.

Yeah. Definitely gotta make sure you know who you're talking to for that one. What a great pitch that would be. You can shoot this floor.

Listen, ma'am. Lifetime guarantee. I have shot this floor. Look, and not just my 9.

Yeah, no, that's—

We start with, we start with the 22. We just, we sort of ratchet it up.

I mean, you joke about it, I'm, I'm in. All in.

Yeah, we could have fun.

I would love to have that hanging in the showroom.

We can make it happen, man.

This is a 20 mil wear layer, and here's the 22 mil wear layer, and here's what—

that's how far it goes through, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a couple calls. I, I know I can get the range time.

Well, I'll get the material because I really think— I mean, you should see this stuff. I mean, it really is very, very hard to damage. It would not surprise me if some of the smaller caliber bullets don't penetrate. I mean, obviously at certain distances, but—

I was going to say, we need, we need to, we need, we need— there needs to be some science involved. We need some distance, we need caliber. And we need brands. Um, and we'll—

I would actually be very, very interested to see because, I mean, you know, tile, it's very, very sturdy once it's installed, but it's— I mean, until it's installed, it's chipping, shattering. Uh, you know, the vinyl is a very, very, very resilient floor.

So do you think, do you think we just need to do this with just vinyl, or do we need to like show how like vinyl can stand up to more versus wood and Laminate and—

well, I don't know how much, uh, its resistance to gunfire will play into, into purchasing decisions, uh, because it's not really, uh, something that traditionally is run into in the home.

Sure.

So I don't know how—

It's not about the selling point, it's about the spectacle, Adrian.

I mean, we could shoot it whatever you want. You want to shoot it wood, laminate, vinyl, whatever. We could shoot at it all day.

I promise you, if we create the spectacle, this is like the Field of Dreams, man. If we, if we build it, they will come. We— and, you know, with, with the millions of views that we would inevitably get, somebody's gonna buy something.

Hey, uh, you know, flooring convention a couple years back, we mentioned the, the waterproof laminate earlier. They actually lit some of it on fire.

That was gonna be my next suggestion.

Lit it on fire and it didn't scorch.

We need to get The Boring Company not a flamethrower. Get, get old Elon. I mean, he's, he's just down the road in Austin. He can send us one.

I'm sure. Yeah, it's a write-off.

Yeah, we need to see how— I mean, because then we can, then we can start doing some testing.

I mean, I could do a lot of— I can think of a lot of things to do with flamethrower.

Uh, we're, we're, we're planning out lots of content here. I'm liking it.

This is gonna be— this is gonna be a series. This one show has turned into a series.

All right, so are you ready? Are you ready for the most popular part of the show?

Oh, okay. Yeah.

Yeah, you ready? Okay, here we go. The Final Four. Everybody loves the Final Four. Final Four is the same 4 questions that we ask every single one of our guests. You've answered them before, but I'm actually interested to see if your answers have changed. Are you ready?

I'm ready.

All right, here we go. What is the must-have tool that you won't leave home without?

Must-have tool.

Hmm.

Must-have tool is going to be the laser measure.

Laser measure.

Laser measure. Uh, I mean, it's— and proper software. Uh, honestly, let's change my answer. I'd say the proper software, uh, to handle, um, your project estimating.

Okay.

Um, the laser measure is part of that, but having the proper—

So you're cheating?

Yes. Okay, it's cheating.

Just want to be clear.

And, you know, expanding on cheating, it's take the human error out of it.

I got you. Okay.

There's, there's so much technology out there that will, uh, take most of the human error out of it. You know, so does it—

the laser measure, it actually hooks up to a piece of software? Is it— so is it like, is it Bluetooth? Is it—

Yeah, it works Bluetooth and will link to different measuring devices and actually will create the whole floor plan for you. You will have a blueprint of your house by the time it's all said and done.

So the, you know, is it like a deal you just bring, drop in the middle of the room, it just kind of does it for you, or how does that work?

No, there are ones that do that. And it could just be, you know, fear, but I, I don't trust it, trust it yet. I haven't played with it, and that could just be just ignorance on my behalf. Uh-huh. Uh, but the laser measure that Bluetooths the measurement to the phone, having the proper software that can take that and turn it into something that you use— I mean, because back in the day, you hand draw the things. Sure. Yeah. And it can look great, and you get to the end, and it's like, wow, that's really cool looking. And then in adding up each of the different rooms, you know, you transpose, you know, you put 15 by 17 for the living room, and then you go to calculate, you know, 15 by 17 and accidentally put 15 by 7.

It doesn't register that 1.

Yeah.

And you're just going and writing because you're doing, you know, 20 different rooms, and you, you make that common error, and you write down for the living room, you know, 74 square foot when you know it was 400 square foot.

Right.

Now you've shorted yourself, right? So you're not making the proper amount of money that you should.

Right.

You've shorted the customer.

On material.

On material, which, you know, hey, great news, they got a whole bunch of material for free because you messed up and you should fix the problem.

Right.

But what does that look like to the customer? We got a— much of that stuff is special order. So I've got to stop what we're doing because we've run out of material, wait another 5 days, and I've got to try to get guys scheduled back out there. Which is, you know, when you're trying to do it and, you know, at the last minute, nothing goes according to plan when it's done last minute or rushed. Right.

Right.

Uh, it just, it turns into a mess for the customer. It's a mess for you. It's a mess for the installer because now they're getting, you know, paid the same amount and they have, now I've gotta schedule having guys out there and it's just, it's a mess.

Yeah. Right.

And it's easy human error that doesn't need to be there. So my answer to your question, albeit it was very long-winded, but software.

Software.

Having the proper, proper software. software.

Alright. Number 2, what is a project you've walked away from?

Ooh. Project I've walked away from.

Got one hanging over your house in the house? Oh, tar. Okay.

Here. Tar and screed.

What is that? I don't even know what that is.

Yeah. So, hardwood. Like we mentioned before, most of our— we don't have basements. So this— the foundation is concrete.

Right.

Uh, so you can't nail down solid hardwood.

Okay.

Right. Solid hardwood is not something that is done here in the South, uh, because we have engineered hardwood.

Right.

Um, but unfortunately there are people out there that think engineered means fake.

Okay.

Fake hardwood. It's not right. Well, unfortunately they're incorrect. Uh, back in the day, to have— before engineered hardwood was around, back, uh, you usually don't see tar and screed before houses built in the '80s, but look, check to make sure, uh, which is again another podcast, uh, another episode, sorry. Uh, but tar and screed, what they would do in the foundation is they would leave the living room or living room and entry sunken in.

Okay.

Right, there's actually a concrete step down in the foundation, and the purpose of that is so that they could put tar down and then put wooden 2x— it used to be 2x4s And create ribs in the floor.

Okay. So now you have the pictures of this that I think you showed me.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

And now you have a deck on the floor. Right? So now you can then take your nails and staples and staple in a solid hardwood floor. Right. And that's how they did it back in the day before engineered hardwood. Well, we have engineered, right? And now you can glue down floor, glue down hardwood. And while it's, you know, not the best, You can glue it down. It feels very solid and it will last because it's engineered and all the layers help keep the water down. But tar and screed is unfortunate because if you're not— if you don't know what you're looking for, it can become a mess. We know tar causes cancer. So, and you can't take the tar out once it's there.

Right.

And so the only solution is to cover it with concrete. I mean, that's, that's really the only viable solution. Or to go back, I mean, you can go put back another wood floor on top of it, but again, tar causes cancer.

Right.

Not good, right? So for safety and health, you really should cover that up with concrete and, and build on top of it from there. So whenever, uh, I will go out to a house and you can tell the signs of this is a tar and screed job, It's, your, your quote that what you talked about in store over the phone is wildly different.

Yeah.

So it's taking out that floor, taking out the screes, pouring concrete before you ever start on the floor. It's a lot different of a price point.

Yeah.

And it's something that has to be there, unfortunately. And, you know, oh, well, the 4 other places that came out, none of them told me about that.

Sorry.

Hey, I'm cool. I get it.

Yeah.

And you know what? I could be wrong. You know, it could just be some weird thing. Man, let me tell you, there are weird things. I had a very, very, very happy customer of mine one time, actually started out like this. I noticed the floor was weird, and I went and found where they were separated. And I saw what I could see was at least 3 different layers of floor. And so I told him, I even showed him like, hey, look, this is An issue because underneath this, there's also going to be this tar and screed at some point, right? That we're going to have to go over. Yeah. Well, how much is that? Well, it's 1,200 square foot of tar and screed. You know, I'm pouring concrete. You know,

and all the labor at that time was like $650 a foot.

Mm-hmm.

So it drastically increased the price. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're not gonna do that. We're gonna do that. Well, he was having someone else do the job, and as they're tearing up the floor, Oh, what do you know? There's tar and screed down there. Oh, well, it's change orders. This is gonna be a different price.

Yeah.

And he immediately stopped, called me. Hey, you were right. They're now trying to charge me this. It's like, hey, I'm, I'm sorry, but here's what we're gonna do. And it was expensive, but it was required because they just put layer on top of layer of floor, and you can't—

It's not a couch.

Yeah. I mean, you just, you can't do that.

Yeah.

So Those are jobs that I will absolutely walk away from.

Yeah, I would too.

I mean, it's— I'm doing it for the customer too. Yeah, I mean, because obviously they're gonna listen to someone else, and unfortunately that's gonna be a very uncomfortable situation where however it turns out, it's not gonna be good.

Yeah. All right, number 3: How do you wind down at the end of a long day?

Oh. Food.

Food?

Food. Yeah, food coma.

All right. Anything in particular got your palate these days?

Oh, no. Chick-fil-A is always a good one. Chinese food if I'm lucky. But yeah, no, getting a— having a nice day where you realized, man, I forgot to have breakfast this morning and it's 7 PM. Yeah, I need to get something to eat. Then you sit down on that couch, turn on the TV, and just start Eating. Very, very relaxing for me, and it's usually a very easy way to go to bed.

Yep. Yeah. Get a little food coma.

Mhmm.

That's good.

Alright.

Number 4. Last one. One of the best pieces of wisdom or advice you've ever received. Not the absolute best, but one of the best.

Okay. One of the best.

We don't wanna hurt anybody's feelings. Yeah.

I mean, there's so many. Honestly, there's so many. You can't fail at anything. You either win or learn.

Okay.

That's a, that's a good one.

I dig it. Uh, do you know where you heard it from?

No. Best guess, probably fortune cookie.

Fortune cookie?

Yeah, if I had to guess, or some movie somewhere. But you know, sometimes you just hear something and it connects with you.

Yeah.

You know, and so what is it?

You can't, you can't fail at anything. You can only either win or learn. Is that what it is?

Yeah, you can never fail. You, you can let yourself fail, but you can't, uh, fail something. You either succeed in it or you get better. You learn from your mistake and, and not make it again. And another one, uh, people can't— actually, better than that one, um, people can't control the way you feel. No one can make you feel sad or happy or angry.

Mhmm.

You have to let them. And so why would you? So many times I've had salesmen that there's something happens in an install and the customer's yelling at them and, you know, they're getting upset because they just want to fix the problem. And then, you know, by the time they get to where they're not emotional and they can actually logically process what's going on and fix this problem, 30 minutes has gone by and the customers want to know what you found out and you haven't done anything because you've just been upset.

Yeah, you gave them control of your circumstance.