How An Architect and A Builder Design Together

This is episode number 127 of The Homeowner Show. Whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is Craig Williams.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show. We're glad that you could join us from this special edition of The Homeowner Show where we reach across the coast and have a local guest and a guest from the, the far west side of the country. Yeah, it's gonna be good times.

And I'm really excited about this. It's been a long time since we've had someone remote, and I don't know if we've ever had someone remote and in the studio working on a project together.

Together.

This is gonna be really, really cool, y'all.

It's awesome. And we're live on YouTube.

Absolutely.

So because we're cool like that.

Yeah.

So take that, other places that we weren't going live before. We're live on YouTube.

That's right.

That's right.

Cool. And as soon as those other platforms pay us some money, maybe we'll think about going over there.

Hey, you know, anytime people to give us money, we will talk about you. We will use your services. We are usable.

Well, we're not gigolos.

Well, we're short. We're shortly—

You gotta watch your phrasing.

Okay, okay. All right. Be careful.

Easy, easy. And you're only speaking for yourself.

Yeah, we're not gonna talk about that.

So I gotta tell you, I was rather ambitious this last week.

Okay.

To the point where when my wife walked upstairs and observed what I was doing, she said, what is wrong with you?

Wait, I have a, I have a vision that she says that often.

Because what's wrong with you now?

Oh, okay. In this moment, what's wrong with you? Okay, gotcha.

So I gutted— we, we have one of those closets upstairs that's— it was just jammed, you know, it's one of those where you shut it to just hold everything in.

Yeah, yeah.

So, and I was done. Okay, so I completely cleaned it out.

Oh, and it all went in the The T-rash?

Like 3/4 of everything that was in there just went right in the burn pile.

Oh, nice.

Yes.

Wow.

And, and like, I have it like—

That may not be just ambitious. That may be simply stupid.

Well, it was.

Okay.

It took me all day.

Um, no, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the fact that your wife walked in and was like, what is wrong with you?

How are you? Because I, because I pulled everything out. It was just everywhere on the floor.

Oh, okay. So she actually walked in before the burn happened?

Before the burn happened. Oh, that's probably good for you. Yeah, it was a mess. It was a giant mess. But I'm also one of those people, it just had to be done. I was just not going to stop until it was over. When I got done, I had perfectly organized everything and set it. I'm one of those weird combinations where I'm extremely meticulous, but I'm very laid-back. If you make a mess, I don't necessarily have to clean it up, but if I get it in my brain that that has to be done, it has to be done just so.

I may know exactly what you're talking about.

So, I mean—

You may be that person, too.

I had it done just so, and she picked something up and said, I need to put this away. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. That doesn't go there.

Right.

This is the way the closet is now.

Right.

Until your children find the closet, and then it will be theirs.

Well, they know to stay away. Just don't touch it, unless you need a coat. Then you can get a coat.

OK.

And it better go right back on the same hanger and in the same order it was before.

Now, is this on— Our guest from the Far West will appreciate this question. Is this on the main floor, the second floor, the second-and-a-half floor, or the third floor of your house?

This is on the second floor. OK. Our guest in studio actually finally got to see the insanity that is my house.

Oh, today?

Oh, yeah.

OK.

She might have some commentary about that. Let's stop teasing this. Let's just bring them in. We have Homeowners Show veteran. Is that a repeat guest? Yeah. So we got Christie from Expressive Builders. That's right. And Chrissy— Chrissy— Christie. Golly, how could I mess that up? Christie has connected us with this amazing architect. Why don't you go ahead and bring him in, Kev?

Yeah. All right. So this is, uh, this is David Applebaum. And David, uh, welcome to the show. Thank you for taking the time and, uh, and joining us today. Let— tell us a little bit about you and, um, yeah, go ahead and introduce yourself to the world.

Uh, thanks, Kevin. Thanks, Craig. And hi, Christy.

Hi.

Um, let's see, uh, my name is David Applebaum. I grew up in Houston, Texas, and went to Texas A&M and got my undergraduate architecture degree. Decided it would be a decent idea for me to expand my horizons and Looked outside of the state for graduate school and ended up choosing UCLA. And if you felt the weather here, you would realize why I decided to stay.

Yeah, the weather is amazing there. Yeah.

Yeah, awesome.

Not that I am not thinking about how nice it might be to come back, but—

At least for the pocketbook.

We'll talk about that later.

You can twist my arm later.

All right, we'll work on that.

Well, and Christy, thank you for joining us once again. I have to tell everybody, like, we set this up yesterday and I called, I called Christie up or sent her a message. I was like, hey, can you come like in like 36 hours and hang out with us? And she was like, sure. Yeah, why not? So, so welcome back, Christie.

Thank you. It's always a pleasure to be here. And I, I feel like a pro now. Like I could just come in and start setting all this stuff up because I know it all. So I know where all the cords go and whose headphones are what.

Yeah. So we're gonna be looking forward to the Expressive Builders Podcast.

That's right. Okay, good.

Yeah, I'll subscribe to that.

Yeah, I would too. Well, cool. So, uh, we, uh, we've got a really unique thing happening here. So, uh, oddly enough, we, we— this all came about because of our friend over at Around the House with Eric G. Yep. Um, we— he put a post up and David, you commented on the post, or Craig commented on the post. One of you commented on the post.

Well, what had happened, I tagged Christy in it because she and I have both been coveting this faucet. That's right. And Eric has it. Yeah.

And gorgeous faucet.

Yeah.

I'm in love with that faucet.

I mean, we'd have to like, you know, refinance our house to get it. So I'm sure he got it.

Small fortune.

From someone who made it.

Oh, there's no doubt that he didn't pay for that. I know Eric well enough to know that he didn't pay for it himself. Someone sent that to him and said, if you'll put this up in your house and talk about it, we'll give it to you for free, which is awesome. Clearly working.

But I think we've been talking about that faucet for, I mean, especially since the last time I was on the podcast.

Yeah.

I think that's when it came up. And then Craig tagged me in that post to say, hey, here's the faucet installed. And it just so happened that David said, hey, small world. I know Christy. And we were like, wait, how do you know Eric? So it was just a big—

It was a fun, Kevin Bacon game.

Yes, it was.

Yeah, and then all of a sudden, I'm sure out of nowhere, I just posted, hey David, let's get you on the show. And he's probably like, who is this guy? And anyway, so, so we got connected, man, and it's, it's, it happened really, really, really quickly. And we're glad that you were able to take the time and get on the show tonight. So let's just, let's just kind of kick this off because the reason that we brought in both Christy and David is, believe it or not, they are partnering on a project here in Houston. And so, um, I guess, uh, I'll let one of you decide who wants to kind of discuss that and kind of tell how that project really began and how you two, uh, became connected.

Yeah, this is David's baby, so I'll let him start on how this project came about.

All right, cool.

As long as I don't have to burp the building. So, um, so as you know, or as I stated before, I'm from Houston. And about 4 or 5 years ago, one of my friends asked me a question on Facebook about foundations in Houston because the soil is very clayey. And it's— if you don't know what you're doing, it will settle differently and your house will have cracks and it's not good. And so I answered that, and one of my high school friends, she wrote me and said, you know, we— our house was destroyed in the, um, uh, in the flood, and we want to rebuild. What were you saying about the foundation? Because we want to be intelligent about what to ask for or what to look for. So

I answered it, and then A couple of days later, she and her husband got in touch with me and said, you know, we're going to be interviewing about 8 architects and we haven't done this ever. What do we ask? What do we say? How do we present ourselves so we can get the house that we want? And I said, because I'm a very opinionated person, the houses that I see in the flood zones, what I don't like about them is they just take like a Monopoly token kind of a house, and they just put it on top of the thimble.

Hmm.

And they have big steep staircase, and that front door's 8 to 10 feet above the ground. And, you know, it's like you expect from the Monty Python Holy Grail movie, the French people just say, we are— we do not like you, and we are going to throw things at you. And I grew up in that neighborhood, and the sense of neighborhood and the kids running around in the yards and playing was gone. And I, I didn't like that. And so I said, ask your architects how they're going to incorporate a house that is 8 to 10 feet off the ground, but we'll still have a sense of neighborhood.

Hmm.

And she said, what do you mean? And so I explained some ways that you could do that. And they interviewed 8 architects and a week and a half later, They called me and said, you know, we didn't like what any of them said. They didn't even understand the question and we did. And we didn't go to architecture school. Would you be willing to design our house? And I said, yes, absolutely.

Yes.

Cool.

So, uh, the first thing that they gave me to really look into is the FEMA standards. Because if you get it right, FEMA will allow you to get like a $600 a year flood insurance. But if you get it wrong and you don't do it the way they want you to, it can be thousands of dollars a year, and they didn't want that. So I researched and researched, and it's funny because they mostly show examples of this same thing that we discussed, which is just taking it stupid little house and putting it 8 feet off the ground with a steep staircase.

Hmm.

But when you looked at the rules, what they were saying was from the flood level down, it must be concrete, stone, steel, or glass exterior materials. No wood, no paint, no sheetrock.

You could—

you had to park on the ground level, but you could have conveyance and storage. So I thought, why not make a lobby? Basically, I had a ground floor that had an elevator shaft and then a spiral staircase that went up to the main living floor, but the front door was on the street, on the ground, easy to go to, and you had this sculptural open space. And I don't know why anybody else hadn't thought about that. A lot of people will sneak— we're not telling anybody because they're not supposed to do this, but—

Right.

They'll put like a workshop or a man cave in that space, but it's got windows and it's just, it's nasty. So I did something that was a little bit different. It was make the ground floor meet FEMA standards. Make the second floor up high and then just make it pretty.

Wow.

That's what I did.

Well, that's a great idea because we were talking about this just before the show began, but part of the problem there is how do you be neighborly from 8 feet above the ground, right? I mean, how do you have a friendship whenever— unless you're talking across balconies, right? Well—

Or unless your neighbor is the center for the Houston Rockets. Well, then you can probably look you eye to eye.

Yeah, well, that's like 2 people, so you could have like— We don't have a deep squad.

Right, right.

That's not gonna— that's not gonna take very long.

Well, so I actually have a question about this, this lobby. So does the, the lobby— because I'm hearing spiral staircase around the, around the elevator shaft— does that then open up into the rest of the house?

Yes.

Okay.

The elevator shaft is about 8 foot in diameter. Then the staircase, which each one of the treads basically seems to stick out and float from around the cylinder, and that's another 4 feet. So that's, you know, that's 8 feet plus 8 feet, so it's a 16-foot-wide circle. We've actually got a 17-foot-wide circle, and then that opens up into the main— I don't want to call it the second floor. According to FEMA, it's the first floor, the garden level, and it just opens up. So we have to air condition it all together, but other than that, it's great.

Yeah. And so everything below that, I guess, would just be concrete or whatever other materials that are exterior materials.

Yeah.

We have cement fiberboard, we have exterior stucco and concrete. And the most important thing is, as I was setting this up, I was thinking, well, this would be a good chance for me to get a prefabricated steel frame.

Mm-hmm.

So it'll go up like that, like in a couple of days instead of a month. And it's got to be steel anyway. And then we can use that to create cantilevers so the second floor actually floats. And I was recommended to meet one of the top prefab steel guys in Houston, who was Daniel. And as Daniel was so helpful to get this thing going, I couldn't have done it this way without him. You know, it's like, I need a contractor who knows how to work with steel. And Daniel said, I think Christy would be good. And then I found out that Christie's background was designing and decorating, and I thought, wouldn't that be fun to work with somebody that's got that

kind of taste level? And I saw her work and I really liked it, both construction-wise for being really well done, and then the beauty level as well. So, you know, I'm, I'm dealing with somebody who doesn't just, you know, hammer and saw, but is thinking about what it's going to look like inside and outside. And it just became a good match.

Wow.

So as I'm hearing you say all of these things, I'm thinking, man, this is a really special house.

Yeah, it is an amazing house. I mean, just in the thought process and the design and how everybody came together, because what David's not saying is Daniel is my husband.

Oh, okay.

So yeah, so that's how we connected. So kind of how this whole show connected was kind of how David and I connected, was because he was looking for someone in the, you know, pre-engineered steel industry, and my husband's been in that for over 20 years. So if you want to know anything about steel buildings, he is the man to talk to because he has this amazing wealth of knowledge that is kind of dorky in a way, but— It's so true. But he really, I mean, never, like, from when we first got married when we were in our 20s, I never thought that he would have that kind of knowledge. So he deals with everything usually is commercial. He doesn't do a whole lot of, you know, residential.

But when David came to him with this project, he was so excited about it because he's been wanting to, you know, kind of show how you can use that pre-engineered model building and in a residential way, but not as a barndominium, as everybody calls them. You know, everybody wants to do a barndominium, but they don't really know how to make it something special. And this is nothing like a barndominium, but it is a steel structure. So it's just really interesting how it all worked around. So that's how me and David got connected.

So these aren't like traditional, like I-beams, or are they?

Yeah. Yeah. You have I-beams and, you know, portal frames and all kinds of structural steel.

Yeah.

Yeah. It's, it's, it's actually— no, you're fine. It's actually a very simple structure in a metal building.

I, I have a model of it right here.

Oh, cool.

I don't know how much of it you can see.

Yeah.

But in reality, it's actually just a box. But these things cantilever, which is what the steel allows us to do. So things pop out. and then pop in, all because we had— if we weren't doing this with the pre-engineered steel, we wouldn't be able to pull it off. Yeah, you, you don't—

you just don't see houses with cantilevers on them. I mean, you see buildings with them, like, you know, like, you know, commercial buildings, but you just don't see houses with cantilevers very often.

Can you see the staircase and this right in the bottom floor?

Yeah.

You see there's a little bit of a cylinder with steps coming through.

Yes.

Yeah, that's, that's what we're doing. And, you know, I'm gonna actually add that when I first was introduced to Christie, I thought, oh, he's just saying this because it's his wife, and maybe she's good, maybe she's not. So I did, I did some deep diving, and I— it was okay. All right, this will be good.

Wow.

And also, it keeps Daniel around because Daniel is I can't imagine. When you deal with steel, pre-engineered steel companies, they just want you to do something off the shelf.

Yeah.

It's like, here's gymnasium A and here's box B. You can put them together or you can leave them apart. It's up to you. And Daniel was like, dude, what do you want to do? We'll figure out a way to make it work. And I was like, okay. So it, it, this project wouldn't be anything like this if it wasn't for him.

Well, I would, and I would imagine, I mean, just because I-beams are not cheap, you know, and I imagine those guys have been conditioned to try and push people towards prefab because they know that that's going to fit into more people's budgets for what they want, what they're like, what Christie's talking about doing like a barndominium kind of a thing. But like these, these custom I-beams, I mean, like that, I mean, like I've worked with some of these guys that manufacture these things. They're not, I mean, they're not for the faint of heart. I know that.

Well, and it, you know, it's a little crazy now because we all know since COVID happened, lumber prices went through the roof.

Yeah.

So, and that happens between the steel and lumber industry throughout the time that Daniel's been involved in that. Sometimes lumber's higher, sometimes steel is higher.

Okay.

So if you just happen to catch it at that time where lumber's higher, This actually, we kind of have gone back and forth as to whether the interior of the main living space was going to be lightweight steel framing or if it was going to be lumber framing. And at this time right now, we're still at lightweight steel framing because it would be more cost-effective to do that than it is with lumber.

Really? Right now?

Yeah.

That's crazy.

Yeah, 'cause lumber's still—

You should add that on top of that, we've all gained our COVID 15. So the lightweight metal framing is just to slim us a little bit.

That is so true. I actually told Daniel today, I was like, oh, you know, I said, before I came here, I was like, does my makeup look okay? I was like, because they do a video. And I said, and then at the end they always take a picture. And I said, so I'll be able to look at the first picture and see how much weight I've actually gained since I've been on the Homeowner Show.

The progression.

That's right. Here she was really skinny. Now she's got her little COVID weight going.

We'll have to figure out a way to Photoshop David in this.

Christy also, I don't know if you know this, but she gets in these comp— these weight loss bodybuilding competitions in her gym, and I don't think she's ever lost.

I'm very competitive like that. And it's weird because I don't think I would have— I would have never called myself a competitive person. But man, when I get in with these other women and it's like, okay, see who can lose the most body fat percentage in the next 6 weeks, I'm just on top of it. So I'm like, Watch out, because I'm totally going to win this. I'm not losing to y'all. That's right. Well, and I mean, before COVID I mean, we used to work out probably 9 hours a week. So we were already, you know, very fit. And then, you know, of course, COVID hit and gyms closed and stuff. So it kind of, kind of like takes the wind out of your sails because you have to regroup. And we've tried to like, you know,

create a gym in our garage and it's just It's just not the same. So, yeah.

And those guys are so struggling.

And then I've like injured myself like twice since the beginning of December.

Can you, can you share with us your injury?

So I decided that I was going to take up mountain bike riding. Okay. Because I thought that should be something really fun, right? Yeah.

With all of our mountains.

Yes. Yeah. In Texas. Yeah. So the first ride on the trails, I just wiped out on this bridge.

Oh no.

On, on my knees and just slid, almost fell off the bridge. So I had to have MRIs and all kinds of stuff. They thought like torn meniscus and turned out I just had like bone contusions, which is basically—

Just bone contusions.

Fancy word for bruises. So as I'm getting over that, I, you know, I decided I could get back on the bike again.

Yeah.

So we go out on the trails and just standing, I was just getting off my bike and sprained my ankle.

Oh no.

So for about, I don't know, since beginning of December. Yeah, I've been not able to actually do much of anything.

Oh man. You might need to think about Pelotons.

I have a Peloton.

Kevin and Craig, I need you to get Christy to swear she will stay off of her bicycle until our project is finished.

That's right.

We'll work on that.

That's right.

My mom actually said, I'm coming to get the bike. She was like, that's it, you're not getting it. I was like, but I could have just like I sprained my ankle just doing nothing.

Well, there you go, mom still being a mom.

Well, I'll just tell ya, people that come into this studio and have silly excuses for getting injured, they just need to get out, right? Here's looking at me.

Yeah, that's right.

But anyway, so, well, so getting back, since we got way off track, getting back for a minute, you mentioned like doing stuff in your garage. So one of the things that I find really interesting about this project is that you're still gonna have storage underneath in form of like your parking still on the ground floor like you would in a stilt home kind of. Is that the way that works?

Yeah, yeah. It's not just garage either. I mean, there are actual real storage spaces like with doors that are separated. So it'll be really nice because she'll be able to actually park her vehicles in the garage and then still have space for storage.

Hey, Christy, we should, we should, we should have them come in for a field trip.

Yes.

Maybe during construction and after.

Yeah, that would be nice.

That, that needs to happen.

We could do on-site.

That'd be great.

Have you done a field trip yet?

Well, we actually had a field trip planned before COVID happened. It was going to be like one of the coolest things. We're going to go to like to the Austin area. We had a—

It was Waco.

Oh, wait, yeah, and we had a family that— anyway, really cool thing, and then COVID hit like literally the week before we were supposed to leave, and then that kinda blew up. So we've done a couple of on-sites with like the Texas Ag Association and some different things like that, but—

We did a live show one time from a bar.

We did.

Yeah.

Yeah, we actually broke it up into many, many different episodes, and all of them sucked, so.

So don't go back and listen to it.

Don't go back and listen to it.

But it happened.

You can't hear anything because we were in the bar and our audio was horrible. So, uh, but we were—

we were— I was just hoping since you— we got your first in-house and West Coast show, we'll do one of your first remote shows.

Yeah, I think that would be fantastic.

That would be awesome.

Yeah, especially if we could, uh, find a time whenever you're actually going to be on site. That would be pretty cool.

Yeah, as well.

I, I—

if California will let us— I've always been to come in once a month.

month, uh, just to kind of see how things go. But COVID has made that a little difficult. Yeah. Plus we're a little bit— we're a little bit held up with, uh, issues from one of our consultants.

Okay.

But we're— sounds like we're not naming that person.

Yeah, that's a nice way of saying it.

But Christy and I are gonna take very tiny I-beams and, uh, pay this person a visit.

Okay.

You know, see the lightweight stuff, right?

You're gonna use the lightweight stuff.

Oh no, not the light. We want to, we want to check the, uh, the impact force.

I need to know the reactions. That's, that's the— that's what we need to know.

Well, I do want to go ahead and, uh, put up a picture here of it. You showed me the model, but now y'all told me that this isn't—

Yeah, it's easier to see.

This isn't like a—

Even though there's— it's, it's— so there's some inconsistencies because it was a quickly done A third-party, uh, 3-dimensional drawing, but it gives you an idea.

Well, and when you look at this, I'll tell you that this goes back to what I said earlier to you, Christie, about this is a special project because this does not look like the average everyday run-of-the-mill home. And, you know, I think that there are probably a lot of builders that would kind of go, yeah, I don't want to do that because I mean, if you get it wrong or if you, you know, something goes wrong, all of a sudden it's like you're, you're the person that couldn't handle the special job.

Well, and you know, I mean, whenever, I mean, of course I do a ton of remodels, you guys know that. So that is every single one of those is different and you're always learning something. So I'm like 150% up for a challenge every single time. Like, yeah, this is using a lot of unconventional stuff, but you know, with having Daniel, you know, there for us and anything that we might need. And I mean, after 20 years of hearing him talk about metal buildings, I feel like I could probably, you know, make the steel myself. But, um, And we're using some really cool products on this. I mean, we're just really stepping outside of the box in every aspect of it. And I'm always for that. Like, I want to do

whatever I can to step outside.

I want to add one extra thing because, Christy, this thing isn't costing what you would think for something that's so out of the box. We're actually staying within pretty much standard costs, right?

Yeah.

Wow, that actually was a question I was going to ask.

You're calling it special, but it costs the same.

Yeah, and at the end of the day, it's blueprints, right? I mean, you're still using blueprints. I mean, it's just kind of like, can I read the blueprints? And the architect puts them together correctly, and you give them to the builder, and the builder does what the builder does. And so, you know, it— but at the end of the day, it's going to be something that people look at and go, this is special. Yeah, right.

Well, and in a way, I mean, new construction is A little bit easier if everything goes as planned. New construction is, is a little bit easier than remodels because we know what we're getting into. With remodels, I open up a wall and it's just like, oh yeah, you know. So I mean, you just don't know. So with new construction, it is a little bit easier because, yeah, like you said, we have plans to look at, although we don't really call them blueprints anymore.

Okay, sorry, that tells you how stupid I actually am. They're now black prints.

No, I will tell you though. Is that what they're called?

Like, I actually know.

I don't know, I'm just— No, I actually know.

It's another color.

I actually know how to use a blue line machine that makes blueprints. That was a job I had, so that tells you how much—

I had a similar job in high school. I worked for an architect and that was my job, was copying the blueprints. I hate ammonia.

Yeah, I had to do like— I had the big machine that you just ran the vellums through and it would, it would actually print it out on the other side, and then I'd have to bind them all together and staple. It was Not the fun part of the job.

Which one of us didn't have to spend months and months, if not years, going through that same experience?

Yeah.

Yeah, that would be me. I didn't have to do that.

Well, get out of here.

Why are you even on the show? Architecture office. The additional thing is, if you're the low person on the totem pole before the days of computers, you were the one that had to at least 2 of the desks a day Take Ajax and scrub all of the graphite pencil shavings off of drawing utensils.

Oh, wow.

It's as bad as ammonia.

Wow. Well, what, what about this house, um, have we not discussed? Because I think there's a couple of other things I definitely want to get into.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna just want to ask, I mean, from— because I'm looking at a picture of it and just, I want to know what, what is the style? What would you call the style of this home?

Oh, see, that's a great one because the client wanted something that looked like classic early modern architecture.

Okay.

But in today's vernacular. So it's, it's, it's modern, um, you know, the, the, that very early— and it's a California style of modern— had cantilevers and flat roofs, which is what we have. And we're taking advantage of the steel structure to give us all of those and really pronounce them. But it's, it's modern, and let's, uh, let's call it Houston flood zone modern.

I like it.

Houston flood zone modern. That's pretty, that's pretty good.

Is modern, is modern typically the style that you, that you are dealing with, or are you kind of go back and forth between different styles based off your client?

I learned a long time ago that I'm a service professional, and if it's really beautifully designed, I don't care if it's modern or Mediterranean or French. I've done all of them.

Mm-hmm.

Now, in architecture school, we're all trained to only do modern, so I'm— I know it. I know it really well, but I actually love the fact that when I'm doing a traditional house. Like, I did a house for Cuba Gooding Jr., and that house was a very English-style home, which usually has small, dark rooms. So I would basically design a modern version and a traditional version— gotta get it up here for you to see— at the exact same time, and then use the modern vernacular to make open rooms, but then use the traditional to give every room a sense of place.

Okay.

I don't know if that makes sense, but—

I think any of us that are in the construction industry, we really have to make, especially in design construction, you really have to cater to your client. I mean, there is a certain style that, of course, I love for my own personal style. And in a way, I kind of try to nudge people in little ways to add some of those details because I think that's what keeps things current is if, you know, a lot of people want to do like right now, shiplap. shiplap and, and, you know, like rustic kind of cabinetry and stuff like that. And that's fine, but they don't also realize that you can do a very, you know, sleek matte black modern faucet with that. And

it's really just going to kind of keep the longevity of the style for a little bit longer.

Right.

Because, you know, everybody gets stuck in these like, okay, I want shiplap. And then you do like 25,000 homes with shiplap and And 5 years from now, everybody's like, I hate shiplap. And so you're like, okay, so, you know, you just have to take those. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And, you know, people always ask me like, well, what's on trend? And it's like, well, whatever everybody else is doing right now is what the trend's gonna be. And we'll know 10 years from now when y'all all make me redo it again.

You know, in the, in the last 2 minutes, you just found out why I wanted to work with Christie.

Right there.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah. Well, and, and that we, we've talked about this multiple times about how that you just don't— I mean, a lot of people look at Christie like, oh, you're a female builder, huh? Like, that's interesting. But at the end of the day, whenever you find out the fact that she's got interior design expertise, not just, not just a quality about her, but an expertise in that, and you add in a builder like there's so much that makes sense because people say, oh, I want this or I want that, and she has the ability to look at them and go, okay, I know what you're saying, but what if we did this? And it would change, it would change—

Or that's gonna be awful.

Exactly, yeah.

Sometimes they'll say, I wanna do this, and you have to find a politically correct way to say, please no.

You don't, you actually don't wanna do that.

No, don't do that, that's gonna be awful.

It's all about how you talk to the client too. I mean, there's ways to get them, I mean, you know, when I present, Oh yeah, manipulation works really, really well. I will make you do what I want you to do. No, you know, I mean, I always present stuff to clients like that I know they're gonna like just because I've talked to them and I know they're gonna like it. But I also present the stuff that I think is gonna look fabulous in their house. So it's like this. Yeah, I mean, you could do this all day long. You pick this tile, it'll, it'll look nice, you know. I mean, But do you want people to come in your house

and be like, ooh, I really want that?

Yeah.

That's what I try to get people to do. Sometimes they'll go for it and sometimes they won't. But maybe we don't push it on the tile. Maybe we push it in cabinet hardware or something. You know, you're always trying to get them to just get outside their comfort zone because otherwise, why are you hiring, you know, architects like David or, you know, builders like myself?

Yeah.

If you're not going to go outside your comfort zone, because otherwise you just hire regular, normal people.

I would imagine exquisite people.

I mean, you know, I'm not trying to like pat myself on the back or anything, but— It's okay.

I will. I will. Because the thing I really want to get done in this house more than anything else is Christie's a really good faux painter. I think that might be a lot of how she really got her start in all of this. And I'm trying to figure out the things that we can get her to faux paint and not just general contract. Yeah, because she's so good at it.

Well, and you have to realize, like, as an architect, David goes like above and beyond what other architects are. Like, at this point, most architects are gone. You don't even— that, here's your plans, I'm out.

Well, yeah, I mean, you walk in the office, you have 3 to pick from, and that's what I do.

You choose this. Yeah, okay, they chose that one, now move on. And they're on to the next project. But David is It's, it's funny because David's actually like, he'll call me or message me and say, I just want to be there. Because that's, that's the kind of architect he is, even in California. It's like he wants to go by the job site and see how things are progressing. And that's, that's how you know someone has a real passion for what they do is because they want to be there. They want to see how it's going.

That might actually be something to kind of flesh out a little bit here that people may not be noticing. David, is that typical? for architects to be like, I want to be on site, I want to watch this project come together? Or is it like, I draw the home and then please go on about your business?

I'm going to say something really terrible, but, you know, I went through 7 years of school, 3 years of internship, and then had to take a professional licensing exam that takes— that covers, I think, 4 days and is about 43, 42 hours of exams. And it's amazing how many times you'll get a phone call from somebody saying, but what's your price? Somebody said they'll do it for $10,000 in architecture fees. Will you do it for $7,000? Well, somebody's going to say yes, and the person who does it for $7,000 is just going, One of my employees actually had a question and he showed me— he came to me with the question and said, but you can't look at the design

because I only got $6,500 to do it. It's a box. I know that you would have gone farther anyway, but I got a wife, I got a kid on the way. I have to make this money and then run. So he— it was just a box and it was bland and it could have been fixed, but. I get it. So I'm going through this roundabout way of saying architects don't get as much money as you would think. And so because of it, a lot of people just do a quick half-assed design. 2 3 5, the numbers make sense, build it.

Right.

And I'm doing a house in Beverly Hills, and we were laying out And the contractor said to the pool guy, if you have any more questions, just call David. He will give you an answer within 2 hours, and he'll be at the job site either that day or within 24 hours. And the guy said, what? But that's— I can't do it any other way. You know, so I think— I mean, you can't see. I live in 200 square feet, and it's all black behind me, so you can't see that there's really nothing here. That's my life.

Well, so I mean, does that— but does that allow you to be real choosy of who you choose to work with? Or, or how does that— how do you, how do you have the opportunity to say, yes, I'm going to work with you, no, I'm not going to work with you? Does it depend on the project? I mean, how do you, how do you go through trying to kind of determine who you work with and who you don't?

Well, sometimes you don't have a choice. Sometimes you just need to do the work, and you just try to make the best of it that you can. But I do try really hard to pick my clients because if you don't pick a good client, they're— oh my God, it's just the worst experience.

I bet that's true.

Yeah, I mean, not every client is gonna be, you know, your favorite client, but what we do is so personal, we do have to have a connection with those people. So there are projects I've done where at the end I was like, I should have seen it coming because we did not have a connection, you know. And so it may turn out beautiful in the end, but man, it's torture throughout the project.

When I was younger, I took jobs just to take jobs. They might help my career, just stay busy. And then after a while, it became really clear if you don't pick a partner in crime, it's going to be— because the good clients, the ones that want to get as involved as, as I do and as Christy does. Oh, that's, that's the best.

Yeah.

So you actually like it?

A lot of money.

You actually like it whenever the client is uber involved rather than someone who's just like, design this for me and, you know, I'll take what you give me.

They're uber involved in the process and not trying to make a statement. So, you know, I think a lot of beginners and a lot of clients, it's the only thing they'll ever do and they're kind of beginners. They put 7 things where there should be just 2. And it's really, it's so hard. I had some advice when I was in architecture school because I was very upset that I didn't take a direction in one of my projects. And the professor said, you know, we call this a practice because you never get it right. You just get closer to perfect every time. So I don't care if I don't I might know 3 things that I could do, but if one really good

thing is really properly executed, it's a stronger statement. So I'll save the other 2 for other projects.

Yeah.

Well, and I think I've said this on the show before, if everything's special, nothing is special.

Yeah.

So, and that's kind of the way that—

I gotta write that down.

It's just, it's, but it's true when you walk in a room and if you've got got, like you said, 7 really fantastic ideas going on, well, your brain is on overload. It just can't focus on it. So your eyes need that resting place. They need a place, a soft place to land so that it could then move on to the next really special thing. So, um, I think that's why me and David work so well together, because we kind of have the same concepts in our head.

Well, and we also know that that special thing is the warmth that we're creating. The comfort that we're creating, the flow. It's not— it's not— I mean, that's a great faucet that we all got introduced on, but it's not— it's not— I could have a price. No, I don't like— I want to say something. I could get a faucet for 1/3 the price and be just as happy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, and I think that's also just kind of really knowing I mean, I, I think that I, I've been on a couple of different building projects for, for built bigger, bigger projects than a residential home, right?

Right.

But, but I think what happens a lot of times is, is you, you, you put out and you're like, look, we've got, we've got, we want to get this and we've got this much money. And you wind up getting one of two things, right? You either get something that you can't pay for or you get something that is so different than what you actually asked for. It's like, I can't work with either of these 2 things. So somewhere along the line, I think that's why it really helps to have the interior designer also be the builder and work with someone who is a good architect, because these— this— there's a really cool marriage that happens between all those things where you go, okay, I know what your price is, I know what I can get you,

and here's what it's going to look like. And it, and it all just comes to kind of comes together differently than I think some people's experience winds up being.

Well, I mean, David can attest to this. I mean, when we first bid out this project, it was beyond the client's budget. So there were some changes that had to be made, but I actually think that this house is better now than it was then. So those— sometimes that is the things we need.

I was also gonna say, sorry to step on you, Kristi, but, you know, at least Kristi is honest. You know, you can so easily go for a used car salesman who's the contractor or the architect, and they'll say, oh yeah, $500,000. I've lost jobs because the client will say, I want a second floor, and then I want this in the kitchen, and I want to do this in the bathrooms, and I want to do this and this. And I'll say, what's your budget? The $500,000. Say, okay, you can do the second floor for $500,000. Or you can do all the stuff on the first floor for $500,000, but this whole project is $1 million and I

can't do it.

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden I'll get a call a year and a half later and the client— there was a time that I was getting a call like this every 2 or 3 months. The client saying, you know, you said it was gonna cost $1 million. We met another architect who had his own in-house contractor and they said they could do it for $500,000. It wasn't pretty, but we figured you get what you pay for. $1 million for David Applebaum, $500,000 for this thing. We don't have $1 million, so we'll do it. We're framed and we're $450,000 already paid, and this is gonna be $1 million, and we hate the design. We should have listened to you,

but nobody wants to hear the truth.

Yeah.

And so you need somebody like Christie or me that's strong enough to say, this is the truth. And if you please listen to me, you will get everything you want and you won't go over budget.

Yeah, that's, that's, that's really great because like I said, if you, I mean, because everybody has this, I think, I think everybody, everybody that I know at least has this dream of like having something, whatever that is, whether it's a big house, a tiny house, an apartment, whatever it is, they haven't, they have a dream of what they want. But I think so often they don't ever realize their dreams because they don't, they don't find the right people to help them get there.

Well, yeah. And I mean, you know, I mean, with the whole budget thing, I mean, that is a place where you have to, you have to be honest with them. I mean, that's part of the reason why I like being a cost-plus contractor, because there is, I'm not making any more money on any other project. Every single project I make the same amount of money on it.

And so I don't know that a lot of people know that.

What that means, cost plus.

So cost plus means that you're basically paying what my wholesale prices are for the work to be done. And then I put a markup on top of that.

Are you just like a percentage that you get?

Yeah.

So you see all the invoices that I pay, it gets all uploaded to your account. There is complete transparency. There is nothing hidden in that. And in doing that, I am able, you know, even like with my remodels, I just had a client that I presented to the other day. she wanted to remodel her master bathroom. Those are going for about $30,000. I mean, yeah, um, so that's just the reality of how much it costs to do that. And when I went in to talk to her, her budget's $15,000, and I just said, we're just not going to be able to make it.

Yeah.

You just can't. And if you find somebody else that can do it, they're—

it's—

you're not going to be happy. Just like David said, you're going to call me back because they did a terrible job or they didn't allow for everything that you wanted, or they took your, you know, deposit and left town.

I mean, which, I mean, again, people, this is the whole reason that we started this show is so that you can hear that right there. Because I'm like, I can't tell you the number of times that I've heard somebody say, I hired somebody cheaper and I was really disappointed at the end. And then I had to pay the cheap and then I had to pay the expensive.

Yep.

Yep.

So I, there's a, there's a contractor here in Los Angeles who's considered the most expensive because he doesn't do a project that's less than 10,000 square feet. He did one for me that was less, but— and, um, he's actually one of the most reasonably priced contractors that there is.

Hmm.

You can't— you get such a fair price from him. And he's like Christie's, very transparent. It's all cost plus, but he hires the best framer, the best cabinet guy. And so that makes it a little bit more expensive. But when you're building a 30,000 square foot house, you kind of can afford all of that.

Yeah.

And you do want, you do want to make sure that your contractor has those, those top people.

Yeah.

I mean, my cabinet guy is, he's one of the best. No, he's not going to be cheap. And I'm sure I've said this on your show before, I'm probably not the cheapest contractor. Yeah, but you are going to get the highest quality from us, you know. I mean, our, our team is, is just amazing, and, and they are a team. They work for me every day. I'm— I don't just pull Joe off the street and say, hey, build me some cabinets, you know. This is a guy that's worked for me every day for years.

And no offense, Joe.

Yeah, whoever Joe is making cabinets for you, fantastic.

I'm gonna argue with I'm gonna, I'm gonna actually challenge you on that, Christie, because you're saying you're not the cheapest. You might not be the cheapest in the initial bid, but by the time the project is over and it's 6 months later and the repairs of the cheap guy have been put in, or the new contractor came in to fix his problems, or her, because we all know that women can be contractors, right?

That's right.

I would bet that when all is said and done, your project was done sooner because there weren't mistakes halfway through. You stayed from the beginning to the end, and when all is said and done and you include apples to apples, I bet you are at the same price or maybe even less expensive than the guy who started less expensive.

Yeah, yeah, that's true. It's totally true. And I mean, I just, you know, I mean, there's great contractors out there, but I just love what I do. I mean, I'm just so super passionate about it. And you're— I mean, y'all are You know, I'm a female. There's not a— I've never met another female builder contractor before. I've tried to find somebody. I just can't. But I mean, it's a difficult position to be in, but I absolutely love what I do.

Well, the phrase that you mentioned earlier, I'm not the cheapest, I've actually found that to be one of the more helpful phrases in our business too. Just because, I mean, a lot of times you can, you can sort of feel out a client that is price shopping, you know? And so for me, it's always been helpful just to say right up front, like, I'm not the cheapest in town. Like, if you're looking for the cheapest, I'm not him.

Right.

You know? And so if that's, if that's the metric, I'm not going to win.

Yeah.

But if you're looking for value, here's what I have to offer.

Right.

Right. And I think that's the keyword there is value. 'Cause you're right. Like, I mean, the value that you're gonna get from us. Yeah.

Now my value may not be the value that you're looking for.

Right.

At the end of the day. And that's fine.

Yeah.

Because like, like you guys are talking about, you wanna get matched up with the right people.

Right.

Right.

That's not a good marriage.

Yeah. And, and you do, I mean, I have some people who, you know, they just say, you're just, your prices are not in our budget. And I say, well, you know, thanks for telling me. And then I have to move on to the next one. There's, there's no negotiating in, in the pricing when you're a cost-plus contractor. So the negotiating you have is like, okay, you you've got $100,000 to spend and you ended up at $120,000, what can we cut? You know, some things are just not going to get done.

But by the same token, somebody who's not doing your way and is doing a fixed sum, they're going to say, well gee, the framing came in as a bid of $70,000. I need to give myself a fudge factor of 20% and then add profit. So that might turn out to be $90,000, $105,000 worth of framing. You find out that when you're doing it, it's $70,000. The client's only paying the $70,000.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And plus, I mean, I mean, there are sometimes when I bid a project, cause I bid projects out myself, I don't have the, I don't have the guys come in and bid out projects. So I estimate everything on my own and, or I have an estimator as well, but we do it in-house. And so So sometimes, yeah, I may say your plumbing is going to be $2,500 and it comes in at $2,000. So guess what? You just got $500 back. You know, another contractor that's a fixed price is going to be like, heck yeah, I just made an extra $500. Yeah. So there's advantages. There's so many advantages to cost plus.

And I think that there's something to be said for being realistic with what you actually want. And like, and, and maybe, maybe it's really smart to, to call someone and go, look, I, I've got this project that I wanna want done. I really don't know what it's gonna cost.

Yeah.

I mean, I, I really don't. I, I have an idea of how much I wanna spend, but this is what I want. Can I do that for this? And I think, I think you're smart enough to be able to look at someone and go, okay, that's what you wanna do. I, I, I think it's probably gonna— that's, that's within reason. Yeah. Or it's gonna cost you more, but I'm gonna have to bid it out. Yeah. But at the end of the day, like, Like, just ask the question.

Yeah.

Like, do you think I can do this for that? And, and if, if you can't, then you have a choice to make. You either wait until you have more money or you find someone else.

Yeah. And I think David will probably back me on this too, is that, you know, in the construction industry, we're going to ask you what your budget is and you cannot be afraid to tell us what your budget is. Yeah. Like, that's the only way I can tell you whether or not you can get what you want for that amount of money. And sometimes, yeah, you can get it for And sometimes, no, your budget's not in there. And it's just, people are so afraid of that question when I ask them what's their budget. It's like, you see they're like, they get all tense and it's like, oh, well, if I tell you my budget's $75,000, then you're gonna come in at $74,999.99. And it's just—

Yeah.

That's not the case. It's just so that I can go, okay, they've got $75,000. Here's the priorities of what they want done.

Right.

We know we can do that for $75,000. Now how much of the extra Extras can we get in there as well?

Yeah.

And I'm sure David has the same concept as well.

I had a client who said— I said, what's your budget? And they said, I mean, this was a big house, it was like $2 million. And I said, okay, do you want to do a greenhouse or do you want to do a standard? They said, oh, we want to go green. I said, well, then it's a 6,000-square-foot greenhouse or it's an 8,000-square-foot standard. Then they found out why green costs more, so they said, okay, let's do standard. I did the, uh, the 8,000-square-foot house. It came in at $1,980,000.

Wow.

And we were plastered and the windows were in, and the, and the country— and the client said, hey, everybody says that their project ends up costing an extra million dollars, and this is Still $2 million. What, uh, what happened? Are we— when are we— when are you gonna hit me with the bomb? It's like, you know, unless you get solid gold toilets, you're at $1.9 million.

Yeah.

And he said, I have an extra million dollars. What can we do with that?

Wow.

So let me work on that.

Yeah, I mean, I could use that.

David, you just, you just sparked an idea in my head here because At least where I come from, what I've been told over the years is, what's happening in California, just expect it to be standard in Texas in the next 10 years. You just talked about greenhouse versus standard house. What is the differentiation for you when you're designing a home between a greenhouse and a standard house?

Wow! That's a loaded question because I'm so old that when I went to architecture school at Texas A&M, we were in the middle of having the gas crisis where gas went to be more than 50 cents a gallon.

Oh, wow.

Those monsters, right?

So we wanted all these passive things. And the house that I did that I'm talking about, I had stone, I had all these passive energy savings things that made it really great. But you have all the people that wanna go LEED Platinum. And that means you have to— you can't use PVC, and you have to use locally sourced products that don't come over thousands of miles, and has to be from renewable resources. And wood's renewable anyway.

Yeah.

Um, but there are some places that are even better at, at, at their selection of, uh, how they, uh, cull what they cut and save and redo. But the point is If you're gonna go fully green with, with the no PVC and local materials, it's going to cost you more.

Right.

I mean, here in Los Angeles, you cannot design a house anymore that doesn't have, if not solar panels, pre— pre-wiring and setup for the solar panels, electrical chargers for the car, or at least a 220 outlet for that. You can't have gas stoves, guts, ovens anymore. They have to all be electric. They're gonna have all-electric houses.

Interesting.

Because of the solar.

Well, it's kind of funny because I think every time I'm on the Homeowners Show, we talk about toilets.

It was its dirty cousin, the bidet.

The very small thing that that you're saying about California to Texas is we used, like maybe 2 years ago, here you could get a 1.6-gallon flush toilet.

Right.

And now you cannot do that.

You can't do it, yeah.

1.28 is what you get. Now, there are still some within the state of Texas. So if you're lucky enough to purchase from within the state of Texas, you can still get those. But anything coming into Texas can no longer be that 1.6-gallon flush.

It's just, yeah.

So I mean, that's just a tiny detail.

What's the advantage? You said you can still get it if you're looking for it. What's the advantage? I don't really have a clue what's the advantage.

I mean, it just uses more water.

I mean, is it better at actually—

It will remove more waste than—

I mean, that's a legitimate question. I mean, like, I'm just curious, like, does it do a better job of actually, you know, removing what you put in it?

I think the best way to think about this would be it's the difference between a donkey and an ox. Oh, the ox can pull more.

That's true.

Right? Except in this case, we're not pulling anything.

No, we're pushing.

We're flushing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that's just a very tiny detail.

So again, the center from the Rockets would not be happy with you.

Actually, I mean, for a while I did have clients where they were like upset they couldn't get the 1.6, but now it's kind of normal now, so.

Well, I think we're in a better place, right? I think we're in a place where like, okay, look, the more we can save, the better. I think most people are for conservation. I, I don't know very many people that are like, no, let's just, you know, every— let's waste as much as possible.

I think I do know some of those people. Well, I think some people that live that way, but I don't think they would say it.

Well, it's funny that you mentioned that because our old buddy Eric from around the house, where he lives, they're talking about that they've, they've introduced a bill That you cannot have propane or gas anything. It has to all be electric, and you have to retrofit it. Not— oh, new buildings need to be made that way. If you've got a gas hot water heater and a gas stove, you have 6 months to replace them.

Gee whiz, that's not fair.

I heard his tirade on that, and like, I'm, I'm with him. Like, that's just the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Yeah, we got to be careful talking about him because he's watching right now.

Yeah, he is.

Well, uh, I, I've got a question here, um, because you mentioned, you mentioned Cuba Gooding, uh, David. I'm just curious, like, who's some work that you've done? Do you mind, you know, telling us some, some names you've done some work for?

I can tell you some. Um, uh, the, the first— well, geez, I mean, I, I— the first person I worked for that was famous was worthy of being starstruck. It was Frank Sinatra.

Oh man.

Um, which actually led me to doing this decorator's house, and I'm now doing that house again for, uh, her son who now owns the house. It's kind of interesting.

Huh.

Um, so I've done houses for Bob Hope, uh, Cuba Gooding Jr., Diane Keaton, Sherry Lewis. Um, doing something for Seth Green right now. He's a very fun client.

Oh, cool.

There's probably others that I can't think of who they are off the top of my head. But this is LA. Everybody's— the guy across the way is an actor who you've never seen in anything, but maybe someday you will.

Yeah, yeah.

That's a good point.

I would imagine a lot of these are not what people might expect people who are famous the kind of houses that we would expect them to get.

All right, you know, that's a really interesting point because the clients that I get are not the flamboyant ones. My clients don't want pictures of the house taken. They don't want people to know who they are, right? Their house is their home, and it's very homey and private and, you know, shush-shush. Not that I wouldn't mind. I mean, I did a house next door to the house that Jay-Z and Beyoncé moved into. And I would have loved to have had a chance to work with them. But, you know, I don't have to specify bulletproof glass.

There's a silver lining in everything, isn't there?

No, I, uh, I look, uh, you know, Beyoncé is from Houston. How can you not like her? She's very talented. And, uh, I will say the time that I bumped into Jay-Z, he was quite nice. Yeah, really very sweet, very charming.

Yeah, just in case Beyoncé and Jay-Z are listening to the Homeowner Show, we want to make sure that, yeah, everyone knows, well, they're really nice.

She'd have to remember the time that we worked together.

So yeah, Craig actually did work with her. Oh, really?

Yeah.

Yeah. Back in the day. This was before, you know, people knew her.

Before she was Beyoncé.

No, they knew her. It was, what was the trio she was in? Destiny's Child. Destiny's Child. Yeah.

Well, I think Eric put a meme up or a GIF or whatever up and it said, it's such a small world, but yet I've never ran into Beyoncé.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

And I— people, people like her in particular, I think she's very protective of their families. And, you know, she's got— she's got to get out there because it's her job. But, you know, it's, it's tough. I mean, she grew up with a mother who understood the business and trained her really well. It's a hard thing to do. I feel sorry for the kids of people like Serena Williams, you know, because she can't go anywhere without people stopping her. And you want your private life. And when you become a parent, that's actually the challenge with what I do, because I try to make a house a home. Because especially here in Los Angeles, there's paparazzi, there's— I won't— some of the people whose names I

mentioned, it's because they've had some serious threats to their health and their Yeah. I mean, I, I've, I've done all kinds of crazy security features for some people.

I was, I was actually going to ask about that because I've, I've been in some pretty neat houses that have, you know, panic rooms and different things like that. Have you, have you had to integrate some of that into, into some of your designs?

Oh yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, I'll just say, I remember watching the movie Panic Room and thinking, what an idiot, because a panic room needs an escape.

Yeah.

You don't know if somebody's gonna cut, you know, every panic room needs to have a way to get in touch with somebody and, and escape.

Yeah.

So you're only really— I can talk about this one. A long time ago, I did a house for somebody who I am pretty sure was an arms dealer. He had a panic room, and that panic room had an office chair with 2 handles Uzis attached to both handles.

Oh, geez.

Those little magazine boxes for all of the bullet fabric, I guess. And the chair was bolted to the concrete.

Oh, geez. Oh, my goodness.

2 secret exits. So, um, because with the first time I did one, I thought I was making a really safe place, and the security person said all they have to do is take, uh, gasoline and pour it all over the door, light it on fire, and wait for the guy to come out.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, and, and you're, you're right there.

I had no idea you were gonna get that kind of—

Wait, and you're right there in the, uh, The Boring Company's backyard. Have you, have you ever done like a tunnel Going out of a house like that?

Yes.

Yeah? Uh-huh. No, I'm asking because I've seen them.

This was not anywhere near boring. So it was, you know, a client that— it had to do with— we didn't have a panic room per se, but we had certain places where you could access a tunnel system And just get away from someone.

Yeah.

So did that once. I did do a house that that Elon Musk moved into and just sold.

Oh yeah, because he moved to Texas.

Oh yeah, because he's selling everything. He doesn't even want to own a house. He just wants to come to Texas and lease a house.

Which which one of his did did you do?

It was a house on Shalon Road in Bel Air. It's the one. That's where it kind of came up when Eric and I were talking about— I had done this house long ago. Gene Wilder lived across the street, and I saw him in interesting circumstances. That sounds terrible, and it really isn't. When I first moved to Los Angeles, And I went to UCLA. I lived in the dorm, the graduate dorm, because I was from out of town and I wanted to build a circle of friends. And it was the Friday before school was gonna start, and some of my friends said, let's go to a movie. So we heard, go to the Beverly Center. It's a brand new mall. It's got 10 movie theaters. Just take Westwood Boulevard, turn left

on Santa Monica. When you get to Beverly, turn right. And it's right there on your right. So got the 5 of us in my car, we drove to Westwood Boulevard, turned left on Sunset, got to Beverly Drive, turned right into Beverly Hills, went to the Village of Beverly Hills. First time I'd been there, it was fabulous. There's all these great stores, and it was— it was— I mean, it was— Beverly is one street over from Rodeo, so it's not quite Rodeo Drive, but it's Almost as good, and then we ran out of town. It was like, oh, we must have been so starstruck with Beverly Hills. We missed it. Let's turn around. So we turned around.

There was no Beverly Center, and then we went past. So maybe we're supposed to turn left. Heard incorrectly. So we we kept on going straight. Went all the way to the Beverly Hills Hotel and mountains, and it was like, well, this isn't right. So turned back around, and by the time we got back to Santa Monica, there was a couple. holding hands, walking along Santa Monica Boulevard. There's a beautiful sculpture garden along Santa Monica Boulevard. So I stopped, I rolled down my window, and I said, excuse me, uh, we're lost. It was Gene Wilder and, um, and, um, Rosanna— Rosanna— why am I having a—

Gilda, right?

Gilda Radner. They just started dating, and it was before the days of paparazzi.

Oh, wow.

And they could enjoy themselves But I'm looking at, you know, two of comedy icons that made me laugh for years. And Greenwalder walks into the street up to my window and sticks his head down. And I'm doing the Jackie Robinson hum and a hum and a hum. And he says, "Did you say you were lost?" It's like Beverly Central. And Gilda screamed. And I look over and she's on the ground laughing. And Gene looks at me laughing. He says, we were just talking, why would a city have Beverly Drive one block away from Beverly Boulevard? See that next light? That's where you're supposed to turn right, not this one. Oh, I felt so stupid. And Gilda walks over And says,

2 words for you, Tex, because I had Texas license plates. Thomas Guide. It was a map book that was about like this big and had like 400 pages. And you would look up in the appendix where your address was. It would tell you page 492, 7B, and you'd find it. And then you'd work your way. That was before these kids nowadays with their GPS. They have no idea.

Yeah, I was going to say KeyMap. It was the same thing here.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

So I— we drive there and we get to them, and I'm just— for years I'm thinking, I met Gene Wilder, I met Gilda Radner, and I was an idiot. So I'm starting to work on this house in Bel Air, and it's up a hill, and the soil is horrible. It's terrible fill. And in the end, what we had to do was take all of the topsoil off about 6 to 12 feet depending on where it was, build retaining walls into the bedrock, and then put the dirt back on it to the exact, um, uh, profile that it was before, but now it's stable.

Right.

But in order to do that and move that much dirt, you need to get permission from every neighbor within 300 feet, which in Bel Air is 5 neighbors. Wow. Um, And so, like, well, the client was like, I don't want to do it. I don't want to piss anybody off. So you're charming, David. You go say hello to everybody and get permission. So I go next door and I get permission. Okay. And then I go across the street from next door. I knock on the door, door opens, and it's Gene Wilder. Oh my goodness. And without missing a beat, He says, so, still can't find the Beverly Center? And I think, 2 chances, 2 times an idiot.

2 times an idiot.

But you were memorable.

I, you know, I, I say, uh, yes, but in the meantime, I'm an architect now and I'm designing this house across from you and We need to do this. He said, "Oh, every time it rains, the hillside comes into our driveway. I'll sign it. Absolutely.

Okay." Yeah.

And so he then signs. I walk off and it's like, "Darn! Another chance." I then go next door and I meet one of the most savage personalities I've ever met in my life. He's yelling at me. How dare you? What are you doing? So I say, "Well, Gene Walden, your neighbor, says the hillside." Flows into your driveway. Does it happen to yours? He says yes. I said sign this and it'll never happen again. So he signs it, takes off. All right. About seven years later, I get a call from one of my favorite designers here. Says I got a job in Bel Air. Client's a little challenging, but you can handle it. I want you on the job. So I go and interview and I drive by just like oh my gosh! There's the house I did.

Gene Wilder's house. Oh, it's that guy. So I go in and I do my dog and pony show, and he hires me. And it's like, oh, great. But from that day on, whatever I did, it was easier for me to turn left from this property and go in front of Gene Wilder's house. But I'm not ever gonna see that guy again. 2 times being an idiot is enough. So one day, Things were a little challenging on the job site, but it was— I was not thinking and I turned left. I was like, oh, he won't be— he won't see me. Guess he's at the mailbox. Well, maybe he'll keep on looking at the mail. He won't see me. I drive by, he turns around, he sees me and does this. Stop! And

it's like, oh great, what now? So I rolled down the window and I said, I just so that you know, I have a Thomas guide over here. I know how to get to Beverly Center, but it's very nice to see you. Can I you know can I can I help you? Are we making trouble next door where we're doing the construction? And he said, "No, I just wanted to talk to you." Do you remember the last time that we saw each other and you came to the door? Said nobody knew this business. Gilda was very ill, and she actually passed away a month later. And after I was finished with you, I went into the room and I said, "Can I get you a cup of

tea?" And she said, "I heard you laughing. What was so funny?" And he said, "Do you remember the guy who couldn't find the Beverly Center when we first started dating? He came to the door, so I gave him some crap and I said." Hey, can't find the Beverly Center? And then he said that was maybe the last time she laughed before she passed.

Oh my goodness.

Oh, wow.

And I just— I'm very sorry for your loss. If you ever need anything, here's my card. And I drove off as soon as I could and pulled around the corner, pulled the car over to the side, and maybe for 6 minutes cried.

Yeah.

Because all those times I thought I was being an idiot, I actually maybe made somebody's life just a tiny bit better. But, uh, that's my best Hollywood story.

That's amazing. Like, you, you don't really ever know how it is that you affect the world around you in those, in those small interactions. And yeah, and that to him, that was, that was probably like The best part of his year almost was to see her laugh just before she went.

Yeah, and I think that, I think that, I think that this really kind of puts a really nice bookend on what we're, what we've been talking about tonight. And that is that I, I think one of the best things that we can do as people in life is, uh, do things for other people that make them happy, right? Do things for other people that make them feel more of a person than they did before they talked with you and spoke with you. And I think one of the things you're doing for this family that you're building this house for right now is you're giving them an opportunity to never have to worry about a flood again.

Yes.

Right? They're, they're gonna be forever, forever grateful for the two of you, um, not because you're Christy and you're David, but because you provided something for them that is going to do exactly what you said, David. You're going to make their house a home. And it's gonna be something very special for them. So, um, you know, thank you guys for what you, what you're doing, and that it's not just a paycheck, but it's actually way more than that. It's, it's providing something for someone so that they can live their best life, and that's a, that's just a beautiful thing.

Yeah. So, and it's true. I mean, she has, she's gonna have peace of mind. So, I mean, you, that's, that's awesome. Yeah, you can't really put a price Nice tag on that.

And going back to what Craig said earlier, like, that's one of the things that we, we just really want to do with this show often is we want to bring people in to help people, um, not get screwed, right?

Yeah.

Really. Yeah. To not get screwed out of, out of their money, out of their home, out of their, you know, we, we thought we were getting this and instead we got that. And, and how do we do that? We, we provide information and, and, you know, Hopefully that's helpful. Um, but, uh, I, I'll tell you this, David, like, uh, Christie's already been through this, but, um, we're, we're nearing the end of the episode here and we can't let you get away with doing, uh, without doing the, the thing that everybody that listens to this show is so— they, they just long for the moment where they can, uh, hear the Final Four. The Final Four.

That's right.

I thought I was gonna have to pay you some money. We'll take that too. We'll take that too. Well, these are the, these are the final 4 questions that we ask all of our guests. So, uh, we're gonna go ahead and, uh, kick it off here. So, uh, tell me this, what's the must-have tool that you won't leave your house without?

Well, that's changed over the years. I used to have a lucky pencil. Oh, uh, but I hate to say it, right now it's the smartphone. Oh yeah, you know, being able to take pictures, I can measure from it, I can look things up. I, I just, I hate being so attached to it, but well, we've got to be it.

Well, we'll tell you right now, it's absolutely the most answered tool on the show. Really?

Yeah.

Oh yeah, it's the number one answer.

That's so funny. I think mine was a tape measure.

Yours was a tape measure?

Yeah, tape measure. But it's funny because every time I said this too, when I get on the job site, I always turn to one of the guys. I'm like, do you have a tape? I have a tape measure with me in my car right now. I never take it out of the car and take it into the house.

But you have it.

Yeah, and every guy has one on the job site, so what do I need to carry it around for? I just say, hey, can I borrow your tape measure? And then I usually have to make sure I don't walk away with it.

That's right.

Yeah.

It sounds like David uses his phone as a tape measure.

Did I hear you right?

Yeah, sometimes. I mean, I'd rather not use it if I can help it because it's not accurate. to a quarter of an inch. But for something really simple, like, how far is that? Well, it looks like it's— and then you use the focusing device and it'll tell you it's 6 foot 4 inches away. It's like, okay.

Yeah. And Dave is probably really good at this too. I can look at something and I'll go, oh, that's about 7 and a half feet. And then they'll measure it and it's 7 and a half feet. And I'm like, yes, I did it. Now I actually, I have a digital tape measure too, so that one's really nice.

Is it one of the ones with the memory?

Yeah, yeah, it actually downloads to my phone.

Oh, that's cool.

And I love that one because it's the same way though, because you have to be— you can't be super accurate with it just because you're holding it and you've got to make sure that laser is pointing exactly where you want to measure. But okay, for getting like some good measurements for bidding purposes and stuff like that, it's a lifesaver, especially if I have to go— I mean, I think mine does 165 feet. So, oh wow. Yeah. So if I have to do, you know, measure the size of a room, I don't have to like—

Anything beyond that, you just need the wheel.

Yeah. I do have one of those too.

Yeah. All right. We're gonna keep on going here and ask the second question. So what's a job you walked away from? And lots of ways to answer this, but I'm just kind of curious what your answer might be on this.

Yeah, I actually thought of 2 at the same time, and they were both clients that you could just tell were awful. I remember one of them, uh, I asked the question that I always ask, and we discussed, what's your budget?

Yeah.

And the guy looked at me and said, we're in the middle of a recession, dude. I can make any price I want. There are desperate people out there, and they'll build it for me for any price I tell them to. And I said, "Thank you very much. I think you can find yourself another architect." There you go. I left.

No doubt. No doubt.

Because if you're going to treat the contractor badly, I don't want to work with you because I to me it's very important. It's a team. I don't care if you're sweeping the floor. I don't care if you're the plumber. I don't care if you're the master craftsman. We all are in this together, and the ego is for the client. project to be done right, not me. I don't have to be right, you know. Christy's great because she doesn't have to be right. She just wants it to be good.

Yeah.

And that's— I can speak that language.

Well, and it, you know, that's part of what I always say about my, my projects is I listen to every single person that's on the job site. And just like David said, I don't care what his job is or her job is. I want to hear their ideas because I can't think of everything. I'm not going to be able to. Even me and David together are not going to be able to think of everything. We may have, you know, our tile guy may come in and say, hey, did you think about, you know, finishing this off this way? And we're like, oh my gosh, that's fantastic.

Yeah.

And that's how you really get like an amazing space is everybody on these job sites have— they have ideas. And if you make them a part of the project, then they have ownership in it and they feel pride. And I want my I want my team to have that pride because I think they do amazing stuff, you know? So I think that's—

Yeah, you took the words right out of my mouth. Ownership.

Yeah.

Give them ownership because you want them, you want them to drive by 2 years later and take their kids or their wife or husband and say, see that?

Yeah.

I helped make that thing get built.

Yeah. I mean, my dad, my dad was a master electrician, so I can't tell you how many neighborhoods in Conroe that I've had to say, oh yeah, I wired all those houses. And so now is the same thing with Daniel is like with all the metal buildings. It's like, oh, that's one of our buildings. Oh, that's one of our buildings. I'm like, oh, let's go look at some of my projects.

He's gonna go out of his way with our project though, Christy. He's gonna be taking everybody.

You both get to take— I mean, like, your kid's just gonna be like, oh my gosh, both of you stop.

Yeah.

I think I get more joy out of knowing somebody like Daniel is showing it to people. Yeah, because he was so instrumental in it. And he'll, you know, he's not listed as the architect or the builder, but for him just to say, hey, look, I had something to do with that, I, I, it makes me feel happy that he can be proud of it too.

Yeah.

And everybody else.

Yeah, yeah, that's a trickle-down thing.

Awesome. All right, next question, here we go. How do you wind down at the end of a long day?

Why listen to the homeowner show?

What a good answer!

Best answer we've ever heard.

That is.

I don't think I've ever heard that.

I don't care if it's a lie or not. That is a good question. That is a good answer, man.

You win.

That's right. You know, I cook. That's what I do.

Oh, nice.

Awesome. What do you like to cook?

Oh boy, you name it. Um, I, I made, uh, a risotto with lobster and Canadian bacon a couple of days ago.

Oh my goodness, nice.

But also just making a big pot of beans. Yeah, I love it. I just love it.

Yeah, dude, I tell you, a big pot of beans, that's, that's a, that's a piece of art.

Yeah. Yeah, that takes some time.

Isn't it?

Yeah, it is. I mean, like, because like people, I mean, like, because people just buy cans of beans and think like that's what—

no, no, no, that is not right.

But it's probably because they're not from Texas. I don't know if the bean culture in California is like it is here, but like—

No, it isn't. No, that's the point. Yeah, that's the point.

Yeah.

So I have a 23-year-old son, and I, from the time he was about 8, started teaching him how to cook.

Right.

And he's gotten really good. And I, I said to him, look, when you get older, the fact that you can play guitar and cook will really help you in dating.

Yes.

So he, he showed me About a year ago, he took a picture of something very fancy he made for dinner for his girlfriend. And I said, she must be really happy to have a boyfriend that can cook. And he said, I think she's more happy that I have a job.

Nice.

I can afford the food.

That's right.

Right. That's good. That's good. All right. Well, we are in the home stretch here. So Here we go. What's one of the best pieces of wisdom or advice that you've ever received?

I've had a bunch of really good ones, but I think the one that I use the most is make it simple, do really good simple, and once you've got that down, then add another element. And then when you get good at those 3 elements, now you can do 4. And then you can do— because I was very young, I was just out of grad school and it was my first real job. And we did this really great project. I was the project architect for a famous New York designer who came in to do this free store in West Hollywood. And when it was all over, I said, I remember I saw your work when I was younger and it was all black and white and stainless steel and then

had a little bit of blue. a little bit of red. I said, this has travertine and steel, and it's got these different kinds of woods. There must have been 17, 18 colors all in all and materials. To do that is really difficult. I said, how did you get so good at this? He said, you actually answered it. I did black and white. When I got good at black and white, then I added stainless steel. And then when I got good at those 3, I then added a touch of red and then a touch of blue. And then I started putting charcoal and deep browns. And next thing you know, I was doing textures. And before long, I got good at all of it. Don't try and do all 17 at once until you've gotten

good at 16.

Wow.

Yeah, that's great. That's really good advice. Yeah, it's really easy to jump into things, right? And just be like, look, I can be all things to all people. Do what you do, and then once you learn how to do that, then do something a little bit more. That's good.

Add a little extra sauce.

I sometimes catch myself and say, oh, oh, I'm doing too many things. Chill. Get rid of half of it. Let's see how that works. And if it needs something else, we'll add it then.

Yeah.

Awesome. Well, man, uh, Christy, thank you for, uh, for joining us tonight. Thank you for coming into the studio. And David, thank you for Uh, taking the time. I mean, we're, we're 2 hours difference here, uh, between us and you. So thank you for, for making the schedule work and being part of the show, man. It's, it's been really, really good.

It was fun, Kevin, Craig. It was great. I really enjoyed it. I'll come back anytime you want me.

Oh, that'd be fantastic, man. We will take you up on that.

Thanks for making this easy for me.

Oh yes, of course, of course. No, I— as soon as I I saw like the circle, I was like, okay, you guys have to talk to David because you've talked to me enough. But let's get, let's get David in here.

So, man, that's cool. Well, we, we definitely want to find out whenever you're coming in next time, and Craig and I will clear our schedules.

Yeah, we'll make, we'll make the remote stuff happen.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, listen, great.

We forgot, we forgot the, the secret 5th question to the final 4.

Oh yeah, we gotta, we gotta get it.

Yeah, so there's, there's a secret question that we, we have to If people want to get ahold of you, ask you questions, what's the best way to find you?

Oh, that's easy. I thought you were going to ask me what I was wearing.

You can throw that in there if you want.

It's very simple. Email me, david@davidapplebaum.com. I have to redo my website. I'm in the middle of it, but who knows? I've been so busy. Who can do that?

Right.

And then, uh, you can call my office, which is 310-440-7855.

Fantastic.

Awesome.

We'll link all that up in the show notes and make sure people can, can find you.

Yeah, definitely. Well, uh, yeah, like I said earlier, thank you guys. And, uh, thank all of you who are listening, those of you who are watching as well. We, we really, really appreciate it. Thanks for tuning in. We're here every single Tuesday, so don't miss an episode. Subscribe. Press the button and that way you'll get notified every time there's a— a new episode out. And if you haven't already, go find us on YouTube. We're over there as well. You can find not just the audio but the video of— of these great episodes as well. And shameless plug here, go ahead and leave us a rating and review on iTunes. That would be great. really, really helpful for us. So anyway, we, uh, we're, we're

just really glad that y'all are here. And, uh, until next time, we'll see you later.

See ya!