Harris vs. Trump Housing and The Stock Market Crash

This is episode number 292 of The Homeowner Show. Whether you DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is Greg Williams.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show. We're so glad you could join us for another episode here in the studio. How you doing, Kev?

Oh, I'm fantastic. I, uh, I got a new set of headphones.

I can hear, I can, I can hear everything.

It is glorious.

Yeah, good set of headphones in the studio is absolutely necessary.

It makes all the difference.

Oh, and you're, you're kind of finicky. You want them completely over the ears.

Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know. I, I don't like the on-the-ear feel.

I don't know, it's weird.

Yeah, maybe. I don't know.

Kind of feel like it's, it's more cavey when I, like, my entire ear is in there. It's like something can get in there and like bounce around. I don't like it. I don't have anything. Some wax fell out.

It'd be weird. Not enough to bounce around up there.

Lean to the other side. Tap it out.

How you doing, man?

I'm good, man. Like, our, our property's been invaded by a bunch of little kids.

Oh yeah, I've seen that.

Yeah, we had, uh, Uh, 30. I got kicked out because we had, yeah, 35 girls staying here on the property.

It's a lot of girls.

And then starting tomorrow, I think we have 15 young men coming to stay on the property, so that should be interesting.

Yeah, um, it'll be fun.

I get to be here for that one though.

Yeah, at least you get to sleep in your bed.

We'll see.

Yeah, well, if you get to sleep.

If I get to sleep. Yeah, that'll be, that'll be key.

Yeah.

So, sure. Anyway, we, we got a, we got a cool episode for you guys. We're going to be talking a little politics tonight. We're going to be talking a little economics. Uh, we're going to be talking about housing. Uh, we had to, like, retool the whole show.

Yeah.

Um, because initially we'd announced to you guys, hey, we're going to do a Biden versus Trump analysis. We're going to look at the different policies. We're going to look at the different platforms. We're going to see, you know, which one makes the most sense for people who are— have concerns over housing.

Right.

Well, that got thrown to hell. Yeah, it did. Because Biden's a giant quitter.

Yeah. Yeah. Literally the biggest quitter. The biggest quitter.

Yeah, that's right.

To date.

Yep. So ruined our plans. So now, now we got to look at Kamala. Yes. And is it— how do you—

is it Kamala?

Kamala. Okay. I did it right. Okay.

Yeah.

So we got to look at Kamala and Trump. She hasn't picked her VP yet, but we've got J.D. Vance over there with Trump now. Yeah.

Yeah, and let me just stop you there because I'm frustrated by this situation.

Uh-huh.

Because I don't think that Kamala should just be able to slip in so easily.

We can talk about it, but we're also going to be talking about the market crash that happened like today.

I just can't pass that.

I know. We're not—

okay.

We can circle back around to it. That's fine. I'm not going to leave it. I'm not going to leave it. I want to talk about it.

Okay.

But I also want to let everybody know we're going to be talking about the market crash because I think that was significant. Oh, really significant. There was a lot of optimism going into the weekend because of a rate cut that we got, but now we know why there was a rate cut because they anticipated the market crash that happened today. Right. Which was significant. I mean, like, they— I think they said at the outset this morning they lost over 1,000 points. I don't know where it ended up by the end of the day.

Right.

But anyway, we're going to get into, like, why that happened, how that's going to affect stuff, and all that kind of stuff. So anyway, you've got some beef with Kamala.

I do.

So be prepared for the, you're a racist.

Okay. I'm all— I feel like I'm always prepared for that. I inadvertently—

I walk through life ready for that accusation.

Accidentally, inadvertently, all of those things.

Because you can't say anything bad about her.

No, no.

Right?

Apparently not. So she— yeah, apparently not.

Mean white man.

But before then, we really need to talk about our sponsors, don't we?

Absolutely.

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True Texas Solar and Roofing now. Oh, how about that? They added it to the bottom there.

Yes, they did.

Yeah, no, we're super happy to have this sponsor. They actually just moved into their new offices.

Up in Willis.

Up in Willis.

Yeah.

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Yeah.

There's engineers on their staff.

Meteorologists.

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Well, and then now with the, with the roofing stuff, I mean, that, that's part of the thing, right? It's like if, if you have any roofing issues, now's the time to do it before you get the solar installed.

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I mean, how many, how many conversations have you had with roofers where they get so frustrated because they bring in a solar company on the back end, and they're like, I wish I would have known. I wish we could have had this conversation. I wish I would have known to plan for this. Well, now you, you have a one-stop shop where it's like, look, no, they're gonna be ready.

That's it.

Because it's the same company. You can get your roof taken care of. You can get your solar taken care of. And if there's a problem with the roof because of the solar, you know who to call to come and fix it and get it right.

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Pretty simple. Just give them a call over, at their new location. at 936-286-8325. That's 936-286-8325.

And tell them you heard about it here.

That's exactly right. And next we have Lone Star Appliance Repair.

Lone Star Appliance Repair. Like, look, these, these guys are our longest sponsor. Um, we're super proud to be representing them here in the podcast sphere and YouTubes and all that kind of good stuff because they're just such great people. Uh, you and I have both hired them. We've used them in our homes. They've repaired multiple things for me. And at the end of the day, I'm going to steal your phrase. At the end of the day, take a drink, Steve. Look, it's cheaper to repair an old appliance than it is to go buy a new one.

Yep.

It just is.

It is every time.

Because most people nowadays don't have the cash on hand to spend $3,000 on a refrigerator or $2,000 on a dishwasher. or, you know, $4,000 on a new washer dryer set. Um, and, you know, whereas you could typically spend like $400 or $500 and just get the thing fixed and make it as good as new. And if you have something that you like, why would you want to go get something different, have to learn all the new buttons and technology and the, you know, where do, where do I get my filters now? Like, it's, it's just frustrating, honestly. And so For us, for, for me, like, it just makes so much more sense that if I can get it fixed, I can get it repaired, I can get it up and running again, and I can do it for a fraction of the cost.

Yep.

Why wouldn't I do that? Right.

Yeah. I, I just don't, I don't see the downside in this scenario. Right. I mean, you, you know what you're using. It's already working. You don't have to go to the store. Someone comes to you. I mean, I'll tell you, we, we recently replaced our washer and dryer because, the part that went out was gonna be more than it was worth to replace.

Right. And that can happen.

It, it can happen. And thankfully, they were able to tell me that before I, you know, spent too much money on something that just wasn't the right thing to do. But I hate shopping for a washer and dryer. It's so, like, who's gonna give me the best deal? Do I, do I do this? Do I do that? What brand is better than others? Like, what has the most features? And really, do I really want more features? It's all, it's a rigmarole is what it is. And it's just, It's so, it's so frustrating. All you have to do is give Lone Star Appliance Repair a call or a text at 936-647-2364. 936-647-2364. There are links to both of these places in our show notes. You can get access to them pretty

easily.

Absolutely.

Give them a call. Now, back to Kamala.

Okay. Bring it.

Here's my problem.

Like I'm gonna defend her.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Bring it, Kevin.

Yeah. Oh, you just wait. Here's my problem, and this has nothing to do with her. So I'm going to say that up front. I don't care who the person is that comes in behind Biden. The way it happened to me is a threat to democracy here in the United States.

Oh, those are strong fighting words, Kev. Yeah.

And look, you also know me well enough to know that I am not a political advocate. Like, I don't— I don't look at all this kind of stuff like this is not my— this is not my strong suit at all. So just hear me up front. But here's the problem I have. We went through a primary and Biden got, got the vote. And so at this point, nothing happened to him except he just chose to quit. Right. And in doing so, he passed the torch.

But carry on.

He chose to quit. And in doing so, telling you his words, he He literally said, I'm not going to do this anymore. She is. And everybody else should get behind her. I'm already behind her. Yep. The problem I have with that is she got less than 1% of the votes. So people don't want her.

Are you talking about before?

But in the primary?

Wait, what do you mean?

Whenever, whenever there was the whole like—

Who are you talking about? Like the one back in 2020?

No.

Like this one?

Yes.

How did she get any votes?

Well, this was whenever they were trying to figure out who was going to be on the ballot. Maybe it wasn't the primary. What is it called? And maybe it was 2020. All I know is—

I think you're thinking 2020 because she actually ran for president in 2020.

She did.

And got zero delegates.

Right.

And like got run out on a rail.

Here again, I told you to begin with, I'm not a political person here.

Yeah.

So I don't, I don't understand everything. But here's what I know. The reason I think it's a threat to democracy is the people clearly don't want her, or at least they didn't. They didn't. Yeah. And so now it— I don't care who it is. If, if someone comes in and gets the vote, they are the person on the ballot.

Right.

they just decide, I don't want to do this anymore, I want them to do it, then why do we have any voting at all? Because Trump could have done the same thing. Like, he, he gets shot at, he doesn't die. He could, he could look in here and go, hey, I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah, this is stupid. I don't want to get shot at.

Right.

And he could quit and then just turn around and be like, I want that person. I don't like that. Like that. Who is that person?

Right.

Why do I want that person? We didn't vote for them. We didn't, we didn't say that's who our delegate should be. And, and yet we have a system for a reason. We have a democratic system for a reason so that we can, as the people, have some sort of say in who our next president is going to be or who our next mayor is going to be or whoever we're voting for.

Right.

We have a democratic system here in this. United States of America. And when you just bypass that by saying, I quit, I choose this person, then it completely disrupts the, the entire system.

So would, would you have been more okay with it? And I'm not saying that I wish that this would have happened or that I hope that this would have happened. I'm just what-ifing. Yeah. Would you have been more okay if Biden had died? Kamala becomes president and now she's the presumptive candidate for reelection. That would make more sense to you?

To me, it makes more sense because there is a system in place, right, for that to have happened. And I think that there could be adequate reason at that point to say this is the person next in line. With Trump, let's say that he got assassinated here, right, and was killed. I don't know how I would feel about that because I haven't really thought about it, but, but there's no next in line.

Well, yeah, because like I was telling you before the show, at the time when he was shot, he hadn't announced his VP selection, right? So we didn't, we didn't have anybody standing in the wings, right?

So it, to me, to me, that changes, it changes a lot of things. But here, let me, let me throw more wood on the fire real quick.

Okay.

Because let's throw— let's bring up RFK for a moment.

Sure.

So RFK originally came out as a Democrat. Yep. And decided these people don't want me as their Democratic option, so I'm going to run as an independent.

Well, they blocked him.

Yeah, absolutely. They don't want him. Right. So at this point, he came out and said, we've got a problem with the system. Yep. You don't just get to appoint anybody that you want to appoint because here's the truth. I probably have a greater following than Kamala does, which I don't know if that's true or not, but let's say that it is for a moment.

Mm-hmm.

He said, I would probably go back if we had another vote. I would go back to the Democratic Party and let's see who wins, me or her. And if I win, you put me as the delegate of the, of the Democratic Party. And, and to me, that's where democracy would win. Is it— now, if she came out, if, if they went head to head and, and she came out as a clear winner, okay, democracy has still won.

Yeah.

At this point, I feel like democracy has failed.

We— so here, here's what I'll say to all that is we do have, like, weird systems in place. And, and because I, I think it's, I think it's important to note that we, we exist in a representative democracy. Meaning, you know, like you, you have a congressman or a congresswoman that represents your interests or should be representing your interests in, in the House, in the House, right? And, and so like you don't actually get to vote on, on many things.

Sure. They vote for you in, in your, in your representative.

And, and I think that's essentially how the delegates operate for most of the conventions.

Oh, sure.

And, and not only that, we have, weird situations, right, where you have situations where like a senator becomes incapacitated. They go into a coma. They're not dead, but they can't fulfill their duties as senator.

Sure.

Well, we don't have a new election for that person. The governor of that state—

Absolutely.

appoints somebody that no one votes on.

That's true.

You know, and everybody's fine with that because we've said up front, this is how this works.

This is the line of succession.

Right. The problem is, is we've never had that. I, that I know of.

No, I think that's an accurate statement. I do not believe this is— this is unprecedented.

Yeah. We've never had a presidential candidate back out.

Right.

After having secured all the delegates before going to the convention.

There has. Well, okay, this might have happened one other time. it's never happened with this little time left. I think there was one other time, and I believe it was Reagan that did this.

That backed out?

He backed out after having secured all the delegates? I believe so.

Okay.

We, we, we can research this, but I believe Reagan did do that, but it was well in advance of where we're at right now. We're not 4— we're 4 months away when this happened, so Uh, but there's the— I think the unprecedented nature is the time frame more than anything. I think it's happened one other time, but your point is still well taken to me, which is what is the line of succession? What is the— where is the line where we go, okay, if this happens, then that happens? Because— And, and if I would, I would be totally happy if someone knew more about this scenario and they, they let me know or let us know that,

hey, this is the way this should happen based on our whatever's written a certain way, the law, I would be happy to know that because that would make me feel better about the situation. Right now it feels icky, honestly. That's a weird word to use. It's icky to me. So are you finding anything over there?

Yeah, and I think I know what it is. Um, It was— so it says that Joe Biden's the first sitting president since 1968 to do this. And I think that was Lyndon Baines Johnson.

Oh, okay. So it wasn't— it wasn't Reagan.

Yeah.

Okay.

And I like—

if you're—

if you remember, Johnson didn't run for a second term.

He—

no, he fulfilled his term after taking over for Kennedy and then didn't run again. Right. Yeah, it was Johnson.

Okay. It's still a different scenario.

Oh, okay. So 7 other presidents have dropped out.

But not this close. Right.

And it was all because they saw a lack of support.

Okay.

In, in the country. And so, like, it was Lyndon Johnson, Harry Truman, Chester Arthur, Andrew Johnson, Franklin Pierce, Millard Fillmore, and John Tyler.

Interesting.

Yeah. All, all, all of those dropped out after seeing a lack of public support for their reelection. So for their campaign—

The question that I really have for the reelection Is, is, is at what point in the process did that happen?

Which— Yeah, that's, that's a good question.

We don't have time to, to go through that today.

Lyndon, Lyndon Johnson dropped out really early. I know that.

Yeah.

And I would assume Harry, Harry Truman, I think, is the one— I'm gonna double-check this. I think he's the one that's famous for warning, uh, about the military-industrial complex. Ooh.

Interesting. Well, I—

Yeah, he was.

Okay.

That— and that was actually like his, his farewell address was warning—

Interesting.

Warning against the power of the, uh, military-industrial complex.

Interesting.

He was, he was the one that actually like coined that phrase.

Well, so all of this, all of this to say that this is a weird scenario, and the scenario isn't a lack of support. at this point.

No, I mean, he had— I mean, it was— he had— okay, so he, he had faltering support.

Oh, of course. After, after that first debate.

And then weeks following, it wasn't getting any better.

No.

So I mean, you, you could say that that's— that was the catalyst, right? But like what everybody's saying right now is like, that Pelosi and the Obamas and, um, uh, Clintons. No, not the Clintons. Um, who's this? The, the Senate leader.

Oh, the, the female?

No, it's—

then I don't know who you're talking about.

Hang on. Anyway, it was the, the, the Senate Democrat leader and then the House minority leader, um, basically went to him and said like, look, We have the support to 25th Amendment you. Oh, and we will.

I didn't realize that.

Unless you decide to step away.

Bow out.

So if you step away, we won't exercise that right. We won't 25th Amendment you. But if you stay, we'll 25th Amendment you, get Kamala in as president, and then run her anyway.

Right.

So it's your choice. Yeah. Which is funny because I think it was yesterday Pelosi came out and said, hey, we need to put Biden on Mount Rushmore.

Oh my goodness.

And it's like, okay, come on now. Like, really?

Yeah, because there's so many people that are like, look, if he's unfit to, to run, he's unfit to stay. Now, I don't know that I completely agree with that. There, there's a lot of nuance to that. Uh-huh. But it's an interesting thought. It's an interesting thought. That's all I'm gonna say. Yeah.

I mean, I, I, it's something a lot of people have brought up and I think, I think it's worth the conversation.

Yeah, I agree.

Have you— okay, I mean, this is a fun rabbit trail. Have you seen all the body double stuff?

No.

Yeah.

Of who?

Biden.

Oh, really?

Yes.

Oh my goodness.

So Rogan's been hitting it pretty hard.

Really?

And he's saying, like, if you look at some photos of him standing next to his wife, Let me see if I can pull this up. There's like, there's photos of him standing next to his wife. Like, you can look at the ones where he's standing next to his wife on the debate stage.

Sure.

And then there's like this other photo where he's walking with her. I think it's to like get on Air Force One or coming off of Air Force One or something like that. And he's like six inches taller. Oh no! What? And like she's wearing heels.

Oh, so he's really taller.

A lot taller than her. And it's like, what?

Wait a minute.

How did he get so tall?

What happened?

Yeah. And and like go go gadget legs something. Yeah. And you know, and it was around. It was right before he dropped out of the race. It was right after he had COVID.

Oh my goodness!

And people were like, well, like it. And that's when the whole thing about, like, did Biden die? Oh, started, started circulating. I'm sure you heard that. I did. Yeah. Because he announced that he had COVID and, yeah, you know, and then he, like, just was not seen. Right. For, like, oh, there's, like, even, like, this whole plastic surgery thing. Oh my gosh. Anyway, I genuinely don't care.

Sure. But it's the conspiracy theorists are out. Well, yeah.

The way I heard somebody articulate it, which I thought, I thought was actually very well put, is like, look, if our presidents have access to body doubles, by all means, please use these.

Right.

If it helps keep them safe.

Sure.

You know, not to fool our allies, not to fool, you know, not to fool the American people.

Right.

But like, if it's a security issue and that's something that actually helps and it's a tactic that the Secret Service can employ, by all means, sure, do it. Yeah, like, why wouldn't you? Sure, makes total sense to me. So like, to me, it's not like— it's not like a huge conspiracy that the president might have a body double, right? He probably should have a body double.

Yeah, it's not a bad idea.

Yeah, on some level, like, right, I think any reasonable person can go, yeah, that may kind of make sense, right?

Oh, maybe to protect democracy or something.

Maybe.

Okay, maybe. I don't know, just a thought. So anyway, crazy things are happening. That's the thing. And so we're like, right now, this is, this is part of the thing that I think is, is dangerous about this too, is we know nothing about her platform.

We—

I mean, she's trying to put some stuff out there. But like, now one of the things going back to what we talked about earlier at the beginning of the show was we were going to compare Biden and Trump's you know, their, their platforms on how it's going to affect you as a homeowner. But now, like, we know what Trump's wanting to do, but we really don't know what she's wanting to do.

Right.

And so it's like, really, we can't even do that show right now. Right. I mean, eventually maybe, but right now, we— it's— it— there's too little information out there. So we're kind of up a tree as far as that goes.

Well, here, here's what we can assume, right, is she can't throw her old boss under the bus.

No. In fact, I think that would be the worst thing she could do is try to change much.

Yeah. Yeah. And so what we can— what we can assume, because she hasn't said anything to the contrary, is that she's going to proceed with the same platform for the most part.

Sure.

And I think around economic issues, that's that's going to just happen.

Yeah.

And I even have an article about things that— these are actually initiatives that she's put forward while she's been in office.

Oh.

As vice president. And so, like, I have this one right here. This is actually a fact sheet from the White House from June 26th about a a fund that she's proposing to lower housing costs.

Okay.

So, I mean, that's something that she put out that, you know, Biden, you know, checked off and said, yeah, I want to do that. And so we have things like that that we can look at and go, okay, like, what is she actually going to do?

Right.

And I'll just be honest. I mean, like, the stuff on the Democratic side is much more convoluted Yeah. Than it is from Trump.

Yeah.

And, and so like, if you wanted to take that and, and put it in the positive and the negative and flip that, you could say that, um, Trump's plan is too simple.

Yeah, I guess.

And that the Democrat plan is very complex.

Uh, okay.

Um, and I don't know that that's helpful to, to them.

No, I mean, I would think simpler is easier.

I would—

For, for almost everybody.

Well, I mean, for, for all sorts of reasons, I think it's better. But, I mean, you can, you can take the information and do with it what you will.

Sure.

So here's, here's, here's one. This is the fact sheet from the White House. This came out on June 26th of this year. It says Vice President Harris announces first-of-its-kind funding to lower housing costs by reducing barriers to building more homes. Today, Vice President Harris announced the recipients of new grants under the Pathways to Removing Obstacles to Housing. It's a— it's called ProHousing.

Okay.

Pathways, Removing Obstacles.

Okay.

Removing housing grant competition with the goal of building more housing and lowering housing and rental costs for American families. The president and the vice president know that the cost of housing is too high. That's why the US Department of Housing and Urban Development, HUD, created ProHousing, a first-of-its-kind program that provides funding to communities actively addressing barriers to building new units. Funding will support updates to state and local housing plans, land use policies, permitting processes, and other actions at building and preserving more affordable housing. And then it says that they're starting to see some progress, that every community is different, yada, yada, yada. Okay. The demand for these awards was substantial, with requests exceeding $13 for

every $1 available. Applicants came from more than 175 communities across 47 states. and territories representing diverse demographics and geographic settings. The Biden-Harris administration will also release an additional $100 million in pro-housing funding later this summer. Okay, so $185 million that they're talking about pouring into affordable housing to get more buildings built.

Yeah.

And then this is— okay, the president's FY25 budget proposes a historic investment of more than $258 billion in housing, including a $20 billion innovation fund for housing expansion, which will provide critical support to further eliminate barriers to housing, spur development, and encourage innovative housing solutions. The president's fiscal year '25 budget also proposes an additional $100 million request for pro-housing grants. Vice President Harris has been highlighting the administration's investments in affordable housing and homeownership as part of her nationwide economic opportunity tour in Georgia, Michigan, Wisconsin, and North Carolina. Wowzas, all swing states, right?

How about that?

Uh-huh.

Um, so no, by the way, let me just say $183 million is not much money.

It's really not.

I mean, how far is $183 million gonna go?

I mean, as far as like housing the country, yeah, not a whole lot.

But because the $285 billion Well, yeah, that's, that's different, but $183 million doesn't even build a Texas high school football stadium. So let me just— let's get real here for a minute. Yeah, but the billion number, okay, now, now we're talking different numbers. But yeah.

Okay, so here's, here's kind of the highlights. Okay, it says this announcement fulfills a commitment made in the administration's Housing Supply Action Plan and builds on sweeping actions to reduce barriers, boosting housing supply and lower costs, including Leveraging discretionary grant programs to encourage state and local action to build more housing in— what was that, 4 states?

Yeah, 4 states.

Updated guidance for converting commercial property to housing. I actually like that. Provided low-cost capital for housing. Finalized the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit income averaging rule. Streamlined and modernized the HOME program. Invested in making our nation's affordable housing more energy efficient and resilient. And published a $235 million funding opportunity to support manufactured housing communities, increasing loan limits for Title I manufactured housing. And then, okay, so there's 2 more. Okay. Made historic investments in homebuilding and community development in Indian Country. Where's that? Okay. HUD announced the largest ever funding investment in Native American housing for affordable housing activities, including new housing construction. Okay.

So, like, I'm just wondering, where are they going to focus on Indian Country? Because that's like—

well, okay. So I think that's probably a strategic move in Michigan, specifically around Flint, Michigan.

Okay. Well, I can see that. But, like, if I had to guess, it doesn't say, but you're going to start playing that game. What about Oklahoma? What about some of these other places that have large populations of Indians. Like, right.

I mean, and, and like, you know, they, they might— who knows, man. Um, and then the last one, expanded access to financing for homes with accessory dwelling units.

Except— what did— ADUs.

Oh, ADUs.

Okay.

Okay. Which I didn't know that, that— I've never heard it be accessory dwelling unit. I've heard it be additional dwelling unit.

That's what I—

yeah. Um, Okay, so it announced a new policy to allow for the inclusion of rental income from an ADU in borrowers' income.

Interesting.

This action enables more homebuyers to purchase a home with an ADU or seek to add one to qualify for FHA-insured finance. Okay, so like if it has an ADU, you can include the rental income from the ADU so that you can secure the loan. Okay, that actually makes sense-ish, but like if you're a terrible landlord. Yeah. I mean, I could see the pluses and minuses of that. Right. And then we have this wonderful article by AJ Fabino from the end of July. Yeah. He's a writer for Benzinga. Benzinga.

Okay.

I don't know. I got it off Yahoo Finance.

Okay.

Okay. So it's actually pretty current because it's, it's looking at, at her. It says Vice President Kamala's sudden ascension as the presumptive Democratic nominee for the 2024 presidential race has caused experts to examine how a potential Harris presidency might shape the nation's housing policies. Harris's background as California's attorney general during the aftermath of the 2008 financial crisis. provides her with experience in housing finance issues, according to a report issued Monday by HousingWire. She negotiated with big banks to provide $20 billion in debt relief to homeowners in California after an initial $2 billion offer.

Hmm.

However, HousingWire noted that her 2020 campaign housing proposal focused primarily on boosting Black homeownership and providing tax credits to rent-burdened tenants. leaving questions about her current stance on addressing the housing shortage. Let's see here. This guy, David Dworkin, weighs in. He says that the Harris campaign will put all of their policies through the filter of what's going to result in the most affordable housing, because that's what we need right now. That says nothing about what you want to do.

Yeah, right.

Let's see.

No, I just— it— yeah, that, that's the convoluted part, right? Like, it— like, where are the bullet points? That, that, that's really what—

She has none. No, that's the problem.

That's what most Americans need, honestly. And it's not because we're dumb. No, we're not dumb. It's just that I don't— I don't know what half of the words you just said meant or what and, and why they— why they fit together in a sentence. I have no idea what just happened, right? Give me a few bullet points so I know what plan platform I can actually look at, right? In fact, uh, I went into— I really appreciated this. I walked into a, uh, a voting, uh, poll center, um, back whenever we were doing primary stuff, all that kind of stuff. And there were, there were people out there handing bullet point sheets out to people. I'm like, I love this.

Yeah, no, it's— those are really helpful.

It's really helpful because I don't know all of the people on here. I would really like to have an understanding of it is before I walk into it. And, and I, I realize that, that someone is gonna roast me for going, why would you go vote if you don't know everybody's platform? I don't know every last person on that list, right? Because some of them are down to local county stuff even, right? And I, I haven't been keeping up with all that kind of stuff. You give me some, some bullet points, okay, now I got something to work with, right? But that's convoluted.

Well, okay, so let me, let me contrast. And I, I didn't, like, I didn't cherry-pick this. It's just, it was literally like the first one that came up. And like, that's what I've done with most of these is like tried to I've tried to be in the seat of American Joe and Jane.

Sure.

And like, okay, what would show up in their Google feed if they were looking for like, what is the president going to do?

Right.

What is this candidate going to do for my housing problem?

Yes.

This is an article from Newsweek back in July by Nick Reynolds. I'm going to give him some Shout out. Yeah. And, well, you know, we want to give credit where credit is due.

Sure.

He wrote the article. Here's what he says. And this is a much longer article, but I'm just going to tell you, like, this is, this is the first paragraph. Okay. Okay. Well, the title of the article is How Donald Trump Plans to Fix the Housing Market. Okay.

Okay.

Oh, I apologize. This is from July of 2023.

Oh, okay.

So, but it was like the first article that popped up. Okay. One of the first articles that popped up.

Okay.

There weren't any from 2024.

Okay.

And here's what he says. He says Donald Trump has a plan to fix America's chaotic housing market. Whether it's a coherent one or whether it is a coherent one is another story. Speaking at an event in Council Bluffs, Iowa, on Friday, the former president and son of millionaire affordable housing developer Fred Trump laid out his strategy to break the consumer gridlock in the nation's persistently competitive and expensive housing market. First, cut energy costs.

Oh, we're at bullet points.

This is— then cut interest rates. Then the economy will improve. End of plan.

So some bullet points that— it's so funny because I did not know what you were going to talk to me about here, but it's literally 3 bullet points.

Yes. And then a quote. And then a quote from Trump. When the economy gets better, it's hard to get better when you have high energy prices. And then according— okay. And then according to a transcript, we'll get the prices way down and then the interest rates down, and then the home builders will start building again because nobody can get money from the bank because the interest rate's high. So he's, he's associating high energy prices with high interest rates.

Yes.

And then when we have high energy costs and high interest rates, the economy's not good. And so if we can take energy costs down, we can get interest rates down. The economy's gonna be start chugging along again.

The fact that you could, with one sentence, summarize that and like, he, that, that platform, at least by this, written by this guy.

Right. Who takes him to task later on in the article and says like, I don't know, like, that's just a small portion of what affects all these other things.

Sure.

But that's his plan.

The fact that you could summarize it in, in, in, we said with the other one, I, I, what, what just happened? Right? What did you just say? A bunch of words. The fact that you go— it's, it's real simple to me.

That's simple, right?

Like, make things more affordable by cutting rates and, and cutting energy costs. That, that is right. It's easy to understand. I think most Americans would go, I would love lower interest rates and I would love lower energy costs. You give me that, that sounds enticing to me.

Yeah.

Right?

Which, I mean, like, this is, this is old school Democrat platform. This is James Carville. It's the economy, stupid.

It is.

I mean, and then that's— I mean, like, and so, like, if he can message to the American people that, like, look, the economy was doing pretty good.

Yep.

When I, when I had control last time.

And it was.

And I think I can do it again. And it hadn't gotten much better since they've had control of things.

Right.

So what?

Yeah. What do you want?

Vote for me.

Yeah.

I mean, I think, I think if he can, if he can continue to churn that message.

Yep.

Especially considering what happened today.

And we're—

he's got a real shot. But I also think that there's, you know, the Democrat Party got a lot of life breathed into it with her. Well, there's a lot of excitement around because—

Well, yeah, but mainly because she's not Biden.

Sure.

Because we don't have someone that can't formulate a sentence now. There's there's comments to be made on her sentences where she says the same thing twelve times, but she can at least formulate a sentence. Right. And and and and he was having a hard time doing that.

Yeah.

So I think that's the life that's being breathed into is a little bit of youth, a little bit of youth.

Yeah.

And and I'll tell you, Trump has that against him. Yeah.

He well he does now. Trump Yeah, he was the young guy.

He was comparatively, but he's still the— he's still old. And now health-wise, he's in, he's in a much better—

he seems to be in good shape.

But, you know, he's still the old guy at this point, you know?

Right.

So yes, life breathed. I get that completely.

So, but I think we, I think we have some interesting stuff going on because one of the things that Kamala can point to right now is she can say, like, look, homeownership rates have never been higher.

Yeah.

Than they have since we've been in office, which is true.

Sure.

Like, homeownership rates have gone up. Right. Over the last 4 years.

Sure.

Now, I think there's probably some good explanations as to why that's happening.

I would agree.

I don't know that they're good, that that's necessarily a good thing.

Yeah, you, you've made it a good thing, but it's probably not what you're saying.

Well, you're taking a stat— a statistic and making it a good thing, right? Um, and, and like, which, that's the job of any good politician, is to, you know, bend a statistic to your favor. Yep. Um, so, but like, what's also true is that the homeownership rate has continued to climb from the previous 4 years Before that, and in fact, it's been climbing. Let's see, when did it? I think it was. I I guess it was like. I read this just a second ago. I want to say it was like 2006 or something like that. Okay, no. Okay, let's say so. Homeownership peaked in 2004 at 69%. Um, and then the Great Recession, 2007 to

2009, led to homeownership rates declining, falling to just 63.4% by 2016. Incidentally, when Trump came into office, right, right before he came in.

So like, you're take— again, you're taking something that you don't own and making it your, your own, right?

So starting in 2016, homeownership rates have consistently gone up Every year.

Yeah. Who, and who is the president then?

It was Trump.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

But remind me.

But the last 4 years have been Biden.

Has been Biden.

And, and homeownership rates have gone up.

They've, they've continued to climb.

Right. Now, I, I think, I think you could, you could explain it a lot of different ways. I think, I think the reason over the last 4 years that homeownership rates have continued to go up is because there's been less people inclined to sell their home.

Well, and, and I agree, less people inclined to sell their home.

And we have a much lower inventory.

Yeah, that's true. And, and so, but on top of that, you got people needing to buy a house that's different than the one that— whether an apart— little apartment that they were in. They need a house because they need an office space because their office space went away because of COVID Sure. So they, they need a place to, to live.

Right.

Because they're there all day.

Right.

So I think homeownership has, like you said, there are multiple reasons why I think that's continued to rise. Right.

I, I'm also interested to see how they did the data collection on this because the, and, and, and I know that you've experienced this as well. You know, people that didn't sell their home.

Yes.

Even though they had to move from that city to another city and buy another home.

Yep.

And they didn't sell that home because they had the idea in their head, I might have to come back.

Yep.

And my interest rate on that property is so low.

Yep.

I'll never have a chance, another bite at the apple.

Yep.

For that rate again. And so it's, it's more worthwhile for me to keep that home, rent it out, and go buy another one.

Yep.

Than it is to sell that home.

Yep.

And I'm interested to know, in their statistics, does one person owning 2 homes count?

Count as 2 or one?

Count as 2 or one?

Yeah. Because you really, it would have to be your primary residence for that to only be the case.

Right. But I don't know how they're gathering the data.

It's hard to know.

And, and so, like, that could be affecting things as well.

Sure.

You could, you could have a significant drop in homeownership if you're counting rental properties that people own. And I don't know, I don't know how they're gathering the data.

It seems like an awfully, awfully horrible way to do that.

It—

but if you're trying to get your numbers.

Well, but, like, you gotta think, because this comes from the US Census Bureau, and typically that's done state by state.

Yeah.

And, and so, like, if you have an individual that owns a house in Texas but also owns a house in North Carolina, Oh yeah.

And especially if they've got their, like, their vehicles registered there as well. Right. Like, that, that happens all the time in Alaska because their vehicle rates are so low on, on getting registered. I see people around here in Houston that have Alaska plates all the time because they own a place up in Alaska and they can register it there. Right.

You know?

Right.

So anyway, you've, um, we've also got like the statistics on like what are the top 10 states for homeownership. We actually have some states in like the high 70s for homeownership rates. The national average right now, I think, is 65.9%.

Okay.

No, that was in 2022. Let's see if we have— what's some more? The most recent one we have is 2022.

Yeah.

Oh, okay. No, no, no. As of the first quarter of 2023, the rate of US homeownership was 66%.

Um, interesting.

So which is just below the peak, uh, at 67.9.

Okay.

Now, uh, if you live in West Virginia, it's going to seem like everybody owns a home because their homeownership rate is 78.6.

Oh my goodness. So that's amazing.

Yeah. Well, I mean, like, and I think some of this has to do with population because you essentially have Uh, I mean, I'm gonna be generous and say that these are 75. I mean, you have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 states all at around 75%.

Okay.

Um, that's pretty good. Yeah. And so those are— it's West Virginia, Wyoming, Minnesota, Delaware, Maine, South Carolina, and New Hampshire.

Okay.

Um, but the 10 states with the lowest homeownership rates, I actually thought this was kind of surprising, um, because Texas is in the mix there.

Really?

Yeah. I mean, from the bottom, they're 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6. They're number 7.

Yeah, that surprises me simply because of population.

I think that's probably a population thing. It's that there's the 7th, uh, from the bottom, they're the 7th lowest. Um, but the, the lowest, and like, I, I don't know that this one should even count, but it's a place, but District of Columbia is the absolute lowest, 42%. But, I'll, I'll give you a guess as to what they—

Do they have places to live in the District of Columbia? Yeah.

There's— well, I don't know that they're homes because I think, I think you can—

I say that tongue in cheek. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, like, I think, you know, if, if you can own like a condo, I, I think that counts. And I think it should count.

It should too. I completely agree.

I mean, listen, we, we just had to sell my, my grandmother's condo in Florida.

Okay.

And it was worth more than just about every house within 5 miles of here. I mean, it was nuts. Yeah, I was like, I was like, that's insane. Yeah, for a 2-bedroom condo.

That is insane.

Um, I'm not even gonna say how much it was. Yeah. Uh, but, uh, I'll give you a guess as to what the next 2 were after District of Columbia.

Lowest? Um, oh my goodness.

You should be able to get this.

Really? You think so? Um, why, why do you think that? I, I think Louisiana.

Okay, not even on the list.

Really?

Uh-uh. I mean, it's obviously on the list somewhere, but it's not on, it's not on the top 10.

Not in the top 10? Uh, because we're talking, we're talking lowest.

Okay, it says below are the bottom 10 states ranked by the percentage of their population who are homeowners.

Um, why would I Why would I know?

And this is by the end of 2022, by the way.

Oh, I don't know why I would know this.

This isn't even current.

Kansas? I don't know.

Not even on the list.

New Mexico?

Mm-mm.

I'm horrible at this. This is— why are you putting me in this situation?

North Dakota? When I read it, I was like, that makes total sense to me.

Montana?

No. The next 2 are number— I don't know, what would that be? Number 9?

Yeah, I guess.

Number 9 is New York.

Oh.

And then number 8 is California.

Oh yeah, California actually makes sense to me just because of how—

It's so expensive. Both those places, most of them ridiculously expensive.

That's true.

Um, a lot of transient population.

Yeah.

Moving in and out.

Yeah, I see that.

Mostly rentals.

Yep.

No one, no one really owns. People rent.

Yeah, they have to.

Um, because they can't afford to buy.

Yeah.

Um, too much risk. Not only that, You have a lot of the people who had the capital to own property sell that property.

Yep.

And leave.

Yeah.

Over the last 4 years.

Oh, it's happened a lot.

It's been a massive migration that— which started before Biden even became president. They've all come here. Well, California comes to Texas and New York goes to Florida.

Right.

I mean, I mean, like, that, that is— they've watched the numbers and they, they now know that, okay, like, people from New York go to Florida, people from California go to Texas. With very few—

that's where the Yankees AAA team is, or AA team or something.

Okay.

That's why. Yeah.

It's down in Tampa, actually. Let's go cheer on the scrubs.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, man. Well, it's just, to me, it's just a very interesting situation that we've got. And what's interesting about all of it to me, and you've alluded to it a couple of times, is the stock market crash. So we probably need to talk about that for a minute.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, one, I mean, I think one of the biggest pieces of news that happened today was Berkshire Hathaway dumped half of their holdings from Apple.

Yeah. Anytime Apple has this much happening, we've got problems.

Right. Yeah. And I was actually listening to a story about this today. And do you remember Do you remember the dot-com bubble?

Yeah.

Yeah. So which, which was a huge deal. I guess that was the late '90s.

Yeah, it was. Yeah, probably, probably '90— I'm, I'm probably '97. It was before—

your guess is as good as mine.

Before you and I graduated high school.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was, that was a huge deal. And if you remember what it was is all of these venture capitalists and hedge funds had been piling money into websites.

Yeah.

And, and so, like, people were doing land grabs for just names.

Sure.

Like, it was like— and, and so, like, if you were the guy that secured pepsi.com as a domain, you made a killing.

Yeah. Because you could turn around and sell it to Pepsi.

Right.

For a ton of money. So people— that, that's why people were even buying up, like, like, billclinton.com.

Right.

Like, all of these, all of these people even, because once he became pres— that people thought he might become president. So they were— all of this was happening.

Yeah. All, all that. Yeah. And so, and then you had other that were, like, just weird business ideas.

Yeah.

That people made websites without actually having a business. And then because people saw that, they would dump money into that LLC.

Right.

Even though they didn't have a business. And, and so it was a weird, weird Wild West kind of scenario where, like, a lot of money exchanged hands. A lot of people lost fortunes. All this kinda stuff. This report I was listening to today that is that we are probably going to see a similar thing happen in the AI market.

Is— That doesn't surprise me, honestly.

And because you have so many people getting into AI.

Yep.

That the market's gonna be, be saturated.

Yep.

And, and, and then there's, there's gonna be a few that survive and then make a killing on the back end when they survive that, that bubble.

Right.

But we gotta, we gotta go through that war.

Interesting.

And see which companies actually come out the other end, which, I mean, like, really, I mean, like, how difficult would it be at this point to, like, be a charlatan saying, like, I have this new AI technology. I just can't show it to the world yet. Just wait until it, you know, and then, and then the guys start churning money into it. I mean, I think you, I think you'd have to have, like, some sort of proof of life, but, like, you, you know what I mean? I mean, like, there, there's, there's probably a lot of guys out there promising the world, and they're not gonna be able to deliver.

deliver on.

Sure. And, and so there's gonna be a lot of, a lot of angry investors, a lot of— and, you know, that's actually why Nvidia popped.

Right.

Because those guys are— have the chips that, that AI is operating off of.

And they're, they're going— they're just gonna continue to explode. Right.

But, like, obviously, Berkshire Hathaway sees something, some sort of writing on the wall.

Right.

With, with Apple that they're willing to dump half their stock holdings.

Yeah.

Or they just needed cash and it was—

Yeah. It's hard, it's hard to know when, when something like that happens. Because it's like, what information do they have that we don't have? Right. Like, what, why do you, how, how do you get out ahead of that kind of thing if they do know something that we don't? How do you get ahead of it? Because I don't know.

Well, and like the idea that Warren Buffett knows nothing and he was just guessing.

Of course not.

Yeah.

There's no way.

Especially when it comes to like Apple.

Right.

I mean, like, you're not guessing, you know something's up.

Absolutely.

And, and so like when— but when, when Warren Buffett does something like that, everyone else kind of goes, uh-oh, right? And, and jumps ship.

Yeah.

And I don't mean— I don't know what Apple ended up today, but I can't imagine it was a good day for them.

No, I can't either. I, I don't know. Crazy, crazy stuff happening.

So anyway, it's, it's, it's a weird, weird, weird, weird— like, and here's the thing is Uh, well, and we were talking about this before the show, the Fed actually dropped the rates, interest rates, right before the weekend.

Yeah.

And before Monday, everyone was going, woohoo, interest rates coming down. No one, no one saw this coming, right? And like, what a good thing because now people are going to be able to afford housing. Well, people aren't going to be interested in buying housing when they just lost gobs of money out of their 401.

Yeah, it's like, it's, it's it's, it's this catch-22, right? Now, now the interest rate went down, but I can't afford it again, right? I couldn't afford it before because the interest rate was so high. Now the interest rate is lower, but I don't have any money, right? So—

And, and you can— we can, we can poke holes at Kamala and Biden's, you know, stuff about pumping money in into like these programs and these grants and stuff like that. But like, that, that doesn't actually solve the problem, right? That's, that's my issue with it, is it's a Band-Aid. Right. Especially, like, when you're, like, $185 million. Like, what's that gonna do?

Nothing. It's not.

It's a slap in the face is what it is.

It is.

Let me— I mean, like, really.

Because, because, because who was $183.5 million? That person didn't get anything.

Right.

And that person's, like, 2 blocks down the road.

Yeah.

Because you didn't get very far.

Yeah.

You know?

So it's, it's one of those, it's one of those deals where, like, that sounds good.

Right.

And it sounds empathetic.

Right.

And it sounds compassionate. And it's, it's, it's not that it's not.

Right.

But it's not fixing the problem at hand.

Sure.

And, and whereas even though Trump's plan is simplistic, you can't tell me that lowering energy costs and lowering interest rates, which he really only, if he's president, really only has control over one of those things.

Right.

He can affect it, but he doesn't have control over it.

Right.

Energy costs, he can actually do something about.

Right.

You can't tell me that if he can do both those things, that it's going to have a net zero effect on the housing.

No. Which I don't believe that.

The author of the article was like, look, that's only an aspect of the housing. I agree, it's only an aspect of it, but it's doing something to affect the entire ecosystem that's affecting everybody, right? It's not putting a $185 million Band-Aid that makes it look like you're generous and thoughtful in, into the marketplace.

It's words on a paper. I mean, it's, it's smoke and a screen, right?

Like, and I think, I think there's a lot of Americans that are becoming increasingly frustrated, right, when they go, okay, like, look, I don't like that Putin invaded Ukraine, but how many billions have we sent there now? And now you're telling me that we're going to spend $185 million on affordable housing? No, it just makes no sense, right? Like, okay, let's inverse that, right? Let's send them the $185 billion— $185 million, right? And, and spend the billions here on our people.

Do something.

Which I— which is a sentiment that you're beginning to hear more and more. And, you know, they're pushing back on them, calling them isolationists, right? And it's like, it's not isolationist to go— like, there's, there's a reason in the airplane why you put the mask on yourself first before you try and help somebody else. You know, because you can choke to death.

You can.

Um, and, but we're, we're just, we're not, you know, so I, you know, take, take all that information, people, and do with it what you will. Make your own decisions. Vote for who you want to vote for.

Right.

But, but I think it's worth looking at going like, what are the actual plans and, and what are the actual numbers that we're looking at when it comes to making housing affordable?

Yeah.

Now, I'll, I'll tell you this. My, my sister, uh, is looking at buying her first home right now.

Oh, okay.

And there are— and this is, this is the other thing that kind of frustrates me about plans like what the White House released about affordable housing is there's already a lot of really good programs that first-time homebuyers can have access to, that low-income people can have access to.

Right.

And sometimes you can even combine those and actually get yourself a really good deal on a property.

Yeah.

You know, and so, like, there's, there's down payment assistance programs. There's, you know, really good incentives for first-time homebuyers. And, and there's a reason the government gets involved in that situation because it's— that's what they want to have happen. They want you to have property.

Right.

They want you to be paying taxes. They want you to be a, you know, contributing member of your community.

Right.

And one of the best ways you can do that is own a piece of property.

That's right.

And begin to contribute to the taxes, and to the, the well-being of the community.

The overall economy of that situation is beneficial for everybody.

And they're, they're doing it in specific neighborhoods because they wanna transform certain neighborhoods that have had bad crime problems, bad drug problems, bad housing problems, bad education problems, and they wanna bring good people into those communities. Not to say that the people that are already there are bad.

Right.

It's just that those communities have been struggling.

And, and more good is never bad. Right.

So bring— give the incentive to bring more good into those communities. And so, like, they're— There are already things in place that incentivize people economically to move into certain areas and to be able to become property owners.

Yeah.

So, like, some of that is just taking the time, doing a little bit of research, and finding out what's available in your state. Because sometimes it's not a federal thing. Sometimes it's a state thing.

It is. Yeah.

A lot of times it is. And sometimes, again, you can combine some of those incentives.

And that's where you really need to find a good realtor And, and even more than that, you need to find a good mortgage person.

Yes, a creative mortgage person.

That's it. Finding someone who, who has access to multiple different avenues, um, to get you into the home at the best possible, uh, with the best possible opportunity, right? They're, they're out there. People are— people are— there are people that specialize in first-time home buyers. So just doing your research on that, you will it'll be beneficial for you to do that, right? So yeah, what else, man?

I think that's about it.

I, I heard a—

I heard an interesting statistic today. I'm trying to find it. Okay. Um, anyway, it was a— it was how young Americans are skewing politically by gender. Oh, okay. Trying to see if I can find it real quick.

Okay, we will wait. Okay, let's see here. Nobody wants to hear me whistle.

Gender gap. Partisanship.

I've not heard anything about this, so I am interested. I'm genuinely interested. Otherwise, I would have said nope. Let's cut it off.

Let's see here. May have to circle back around to this later. Okay. Some of this here's here's here's the gist of it is it is looking increasingly like young Americans, meaning 25 and under.

Okay.

Skew by gender. Massively. Oh, meaning it was like under 25, it's like over 60% of males identify as Republicans.

Interesting.

And then over 60% of females identify as Democrats.

That, that's very interesting.

Yeah. And it has all sorts of, like, implications further on down the line.

Huh.

Because when you start talking about you know, if you go to college looking, looking for a partner, right? You know, it's gonna, it's gonna become increasingly difficult for both to find someone.

Sure.

That they align with in their values and in, in their worldview and all these kinds of things. If that's, if that is true, if it's true. And so that is interesting, you know. And so, like, you start looking 20, 30, 40 years down the line, How does that affect the birth rate? How does that affect the population numbers? How does that affect, you know, all kinds of stuff?

Sure.

You know, because you, you potentially— I mean, because like if more— and like, you know, you've already began to hear that like women in particular are finding it more difficult to find a mate at a younger age.

Right.

And so you have women who are having children at an older age.

That's true.

So that, that could begin to look like women have better economic opportunities younger because they're not getting married and not having children. And so, like, it, it can, it can affect the data.

Like, yeah.

I can see that downstream in, in a lot of weird ways.

I wonder what the purp— like, that, that, that's where you— that's where I like to, like, dig into this kinda stuff. Because it's like, why? Where, where did that begin? Where does it end? What is it? Platform issues? Is it—

I, I think it, I think it, I think it comes down to one issue. I really do. I think, I think the Roe decision, yeah, really galvanized a lot of people politically.

Sure.

And really, I think a lot of people became— and I think we're going to see that in this election. I think that became— I think I was, I was asking my wife this morning, I was like, what do you think Kamala's like biggest, strongest position in this election is? And she's like, I haven't even heard any. And I was like, well, that's, that's something to be said right there.

It is.

And I was like, I think, I think her strongest position is abortion. I think, I think that's the issue that she's probably the strongest on, that she can, that she can speak to, that she can, you know, get a lot of excitement from her base about.

Sure.

You know, even though I don't, I don't agree with her, I think it's probably her strongest position.

Sure.

And I think she can, I think she can garner a lot of support through that. And I think that's probably why we're seeing some of that.

Yeah.

Because that— I mean, like, let's be honest, that issue just doesn't affect—

okay.

I actually don't believe this, but this is, this is how a lot of people think about it. It doesn't affect— they don't, they don't think it affects men as much as it does women. I think it, I think it equally affects—

It— well, it affects all people.

Yes.

And, and I mean, obviously, it's a, it's a very politically hot topic here, but, but the truth of the matter is it, it's not, it's not just one person's baby.

It's not just one person's baby.

It's—

but like, you know, there's a 50/50 shot that that kid's a male or a female, and males get aborted just as equally as females.

It's true.

You know, and so like, it affects a lot of potential men.

It does.

But it also affects those, those fathers.

Yeah. That—

It does. That have no say.

None. None. And again, it gets into this political hotspot, but the the— there's so many, there's so many things that you have to consider that I think aren't— that don't get considered. Yeah, that's my, that's my, my point on it, like in this 80,000-foot view, right?

Right. But anyway, I think, I think that's probably the one. I think, I think most young men don't think about that.

I— oh, I can guarantee they don't.

And I, I think they gravitate— well, at least over the last 4 years, they're gonna gravitate more towards a, a Trump than they will a Biden.

Yeah, I can see that.

I mean, like, you could— you— I mean, like, if you, if you love Biden, you like his policies, all that kind of stuff, you can say what you will. Not a manly man. I mean, I mean, like, really. I mean, like—

No, you're right.

And I'm not saying that I think Trump's a very manly man either.

Sure.

But like, put the two next to each other. Like, he just doesn't come out looking as good. Right. So you've got that.

Right.

And I don't know that that's the major contributing factor.

Sure.

But I also think that you have a lot of strong male voices in the conservative movement right now. And I don't think you have a lot of strong male voices in the left movement.

Yeah, I think you're probably right on that.

So, and you tell me I'm wrong and tell me who you think a strong left voice is. I don't, I don't, I try and listen to a lot of stuff from the left, even though I don't come politically from that side. I try, I try and have understanding. I try and, you know, and so like you look at— I mean, I can name guys.

Yeah.

Like you look at like a David Pakman, you look at a Kyle Kulinski. I mean, even Cenk Uygur, I think, is from The Young Turks. I mean, like, they're not— they're intelligent.

Right.

They're smart.

Yeah.

They're thoughtful. They're not inspiring.

And they're not an everyman's man.

No.

I mean, that's the—

none of those guys do I think would want to go fishing with me.

Yeah.

Or really have ever seen a live creek. Yeah. And I could be wrong. Yeah. But like, that's just how they come across. Yeah. As like limp intellectuals.

Right.

I mean, I'm just, I'm just being honest.

Right.

And but like, I also— there are those guys on the right too.

Don't get me wrong. Oh, for sure.

But, like, you also have, like, I think you just have a stronger masculine presence on the conservative side of things. I'm sure that's true. That are, that are good voices.

Yeah.

In that, I just don't, I just don't see that on the left. But maybe I'm just not looking in the right place. I'm happy to find them. Maybe send them, send them my way. I'll give them a listen.

There you go. All right, guys. Well, that is the podcast for today. Hope you enjoyed it. Thanks for showing up. Thanks for being here. And we appreciate all of you. If you have not already, please go leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. If you've not already liked our stuff all across the internet, you should go do that because we got a lot of stuff going on. So give us a like, give us a shout out. We appreciate it. Till next time, we'll see you later. See ya.