Growing a Vegetable Garden with Jill McSheehy

This is episode number 137 of The Homeowner Show. Whether you're a DIYer or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is Craig Williams.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show. And yes, a frog did sneak down my throat and tackle my esophagus.

Yeah, man, I don't know what's happening with you, but we had a really cool episode that is going to go up at some point with Eric G that we recorded off of Clubhouse today. And man, I thought, this is weird. Craig sounds weird, y'all.

Yeah, it's not my normal castrato self, for sure. But it's all good because it doesn't matter how I sound as long as the content's good. And the content's definitely going to be good because we got an incredible guest today.

Well, yeah, it's gonna be a great show. So yeah.

And also apologies in advance in case you hear some exterior noises. There's a, there's a thunderstorm that's trying to make its way through. And of course, that means that my dog feels the need to bark at the sky as if he has some sort of control over the situation. So that's going on.

Yeah, well, that's, that's always fun. I was driving over here and I was like, oh man, this is going to be It's gonna be interesting. I hope we don't have any issues because we definitely do have a, uh, a storm coming in.

So we'll see what happens. Yeah, so here's what's going on today, guys. Uh, we have Jill on the show over at— from journeywithjill.net. Uh, she is also the author of the book Vegetable Gardening for Beginners. And there's the dog right on cue. And Oh, I'm gonna space out on this. All right, we've got the Beginner's Garden Podcast as well. She's the host of the Beginner Garden Podcast. So we have this massive content creator on the show tonight who wants to teach everybody about gardening.

Yeah.

And like, I think this is, this is a perfect conversation because this is the time of year, at least, at least for like the past 2 or 3 weeks, that we've definitely seen all the big box stores roll out their their seedlings and their plants and all their, their spring vegetables and things like that. And so this is when people get really ambitious about their gardens. And, and so Jill, we are super excited to have you on the show to help solve all of our gardening problems. You can fix all of them, right?

I don't know about that, but I'm so happy to be here with you guys.

All right, good deal. Well, so like, I, I have been going through a lot of your content. And, and based off the things that I see that you put out, I can imagine like one of the number one questions that you, you get right off the bat is like, what am I doing wrong? Um, and, and, and knowing a little bit about your backstory, you, I mean, like, it seems like you have spent a lot of time figuring a lot of this stuff out, right?

Yeah. I didn't have any experience in the garden before I started my first garden. And so it was, All very, very new to me.

Well, and so, so tell us a little bit about, because like you have an interesting sort of origin story. I mean, cause you, like you said, you weren't always into gardening. What were you doing before that?

I was the business development manager at a local Ford dealership for about 10 years. And during that time I had both of my kids and I just felt like I was being led to quit my job and stay home and be a stay-at-home mom. And with that, with losing half of our income or a good portion of our income, I wanted to do what I could to save money because if I wasn't producing money, then I want to be able to save money. And so with that, I got into couponing. Back then, the extreme couponing was a big deal, but I also decided that, hey, I could save grocery money growing my own food. So Let's start a garden.

We live on 3 acres. We have the property. My husband actually had built 2 raised beds the year before, the couple of years before. And it was cool. And that was kind of his thing, but at least we had a little bit to go off of. And I knew that I was going to be quitting probably before the spring of 2013. I had an entire fall and winter to research and to study and prepare. And that's really the catalyst behind the whole thing. It initially was to grow my own food to feed our family. And then it morphed into so much more. It became a lifestyle and now it's become my second career and it's something I never

saw coming.

That's awesome. So what, I'm curious, what were, if you can remember, what were some of your first plants?

Well, of course, tomatoes. Everyone grows tomatoes, I think. Peppers, potatoes, squash, beans, melons. I didn't start small.

I was gonna say that sounds ambitious for your first grow, right?

I didn't do what I tell people not to do.

You were, you were literally all in. Whenever you said you were gonna grow your grocery list, you weren't kidding.

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. I looked at what we ate and I thought, let's see. of all of this, what can I grow in my climate? And pretty much it.

Well, I'll— I mean, so, so you're, you're in Arkansas, and the climate there is, it's hot and it's humid, or it's cold and it's not humid, really. I mean, there's, there's one of the things— so I lived in Arkansas for a while, and I love that there are actually seasons. That's something that we completely missed down here in Houston. having actual seasons. That's a whole— that's, that's like a novel idea, right? And so I'm curious, what did you learn just from the climate and how that changes what you can grow and what you can't grow?

Oh my goodness, yes. And it is nice to have seasons, but as you know, the spring and fall seasons are very short when it comes to growing. And I learned, you know, very quickly that there are crops that grow better in the spring. And now I've learned in the winter and in the fall. And there's some that obviously grow well in the summer. But the thing that I didn't know when I started gardening was that there are a lot of crops that don't grow well in the summer, especially in Arkansas. And you just, you can't grow them in the summer in Arkansas. So that was a big learning curve for me.

So where did you learn some of that information?

You know, I, I studied a lot. That's one thing that I've always been good at, I guess, is research. And like I said, I, I started researching all of this in the fall and the winter ahead of spring planting. So I had a lot of time to do that. So I, so I did read a lot of books and then obviously I learned like when it's the right time to plant this or that, but I don't think I truly understood the role of cold and heat on my crops until I started actually growing them, which is pretty much what every gardener has to do. I think there's just so far that book knowledge will take you until you're able to get that experience and learn it for yourself and see it with your own eyes.

Alright, so somewhere along the line, I feel like you had some real big failures. So what, I mean, what just wouldn't grow? I mean, you said some things wouldn't grow. What are some things in your climate there in Central Arkansas that just wouldn't grow?

You know, I don't— I did try celery one year and it didn't do well. I tried it in the fall when you're supposed to, but it didn't do well. But since then, last year, I tried it again after, you know, 8 years or whatever, and it did grow well. So I learned, I learned how to grow that. I learned that broccoli, at least in my area, is really hard to grow in the spring because we get hot so fast and broccoli will start to send up flowers instead of that head. And so once it does that, you just lose your crop entirely. So I would say probably the spring broccoli was one of the biggest failures as far as growing. But I think my first

failure was, um, where I put my garden in the first place.

Mm-hmm.

So that very first fall, I decided where I was gonna grow my garden and it's As you know, the fall is usually the dry period here. And so I had it all covered with newspapers and chip and all ready for the spring. And then the spring comes and that is the lowest area in my yard and it is flooded. Like there is no way I can grow in that garden. And so that was, that was the biggest mistake. And that was that first year is realizing I've done all this work and nothing's going to grow there.

So did— I mean, do most vegetables, and this may be too blanket of a question, but do most vegetables tend to grow in super sunny areas or shaded areas? Because I know living where you live and really where we live as well, there's just a lot of trees. So how do you, how do you kind of navigate that whole thing?

Definitely most of your fruiting vegetables and your vegetables that produce roots like your potatoes and carrots and onions, they really do like sun. The ones that are fruiting like tomatoes and peppers, those want more sun for sure. And, you know, I have some pine trees that surround my garden, and so I do get dappled shade, and I don't think I realized that until more recently. So I think if I didn't have those, I think my garden would probably grow even better, but having that dappled shade still is is manageable to some degree. I mean, they get 8 hours of sun, I'm sure, a day at least anyway. But as you know, in a hot climate in the middle of the summer, sometimes that shade is a

good thing.

Yeah, because I guess otherwise it would maybe potentially scorch it. Is that, you know, kind of what happens?

Yes, especially with tomatoes. They'll get— if they're in the sun and they just basically get sunburned, it's called sunscald, and it'll look like a blister. And peppers are the same way. So even though the plants require sunlight to grow, that hot sun that we get here in the South and that a lot of people get on really hot days can, can really hurt those crops. And then it also causes more evaporation, which makes it where your water— your plants need more water. And so in a hot climate, sometimes that shade can be helpful for those reasons.

Yeah, so I guess that, that leads me directly into another question here, and that has to do with the soil. So are you, are you bringing in your own, your, your soil most of the time, or is there a way to cultivate that? I mean, are certain places going to have the right type of soil just naturally? What's your experience there?

Well, I have grown in both my in-ground garden, which is my native soil, and raised beds from the very beginning. But most of my crops that first year were in my in-ground garden. I did a soil test, so I went off to Cooperative Extension Service in Arkansas. That test is free. I don't think in— I think in most states there's a small fee. So I knew that I needed to do some mending of that ground soil, but it was a lot of clay and there wasn't a whole lot of aeration to it. I mean, my crops that grow in that combination of the compost and some other native soil or topsoil that I have, that grows so much

better than what I have in my ground even now. So I get my best harvest from my raised beds for that reason.

So Jill, on the, on the compost there, you say you get it from a local landscaper. Like, why, why would you go get it from, from them? And I'm not trying to like Pardon the pun, dump on these big box stores. But like, why, why is it better from your, your local landscaper than it would be from like a big box store?

I have used compost from like the bagged compost from big box stores, and I've just not seen the results in my garden like I've seen from the compost that I buy from my landscaping company. And I can't tell you why. I can't tell you every compost from every landscape company is gonna be as awesome as mine is. But I can just tell you in my experience, the compost that comes in a bag, that the cheaper stuff, because I was on a budget at the very beginning, I was trying to do everything as cheap as I could. And so I'd say if you buy compost in bags from, and I would still recommend a nursery, even if it is in bags, I think that that is a higher quality. But I would

recommend to pay the money for the better soil because I've, I've used the cheap stuff and I'm just, I'm just telling you, it doesn't, doesn't get you very far.

And is it just because there's, there's not as many nutrients in it? I mean, like, there's gotta be something going on there that's like, like either it's been sitting, it's stale, or like it's bad soil. You're gonna have to add more, you know, Miracle-Gro to it or something or whatever. Like, Like, I'm not saying that you promote using Miracle-Gro, but like, you know, like, it's, it's, you know, it's just not going to give you the oomph that you need to get those plants up and going.

Well, that's a good point. Um, I'm an organic gardener, so the brand that you just mentioned is one I don't use, right? But if someone used that, that raised bed soil or that soil, they probably would have a decent experience. I just choose to use organic. But as far as Why the bagged soil didn't work as well for me, I honestly don't know for sure. I did do a raised bed soil test one year and I used all bagged soil.

Mm-hmm.

And that bed performed so poorly that first year. I did a soil test, found out that the pH was very high, like really high, and it had an imbalance of certain nutrients. However, after that first year, after I continued to add compost, it balanced out. So it ended up being fine. And so I don't, I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all on, on whether bagged soil is bad or not, or what was the reason why that one wasn't good or not. Some of them, I think, have a lot more bark in them, and sometimes that can tie up nitrogen if it hasn't been composted. I know that's more of a technical thing, but sometimes that's, that

could be the reason why that first year it doesn't grow.

Right.

And then eventually it settles out and it's okay. But it's just, it's really hard because you can't tell with those bagged soils whether it's gonna be great quality or not. And what I usually do—

Until you plant it, right? I mean, until you use it.

Until you plant it or ask for recommendations. If someone else has used a bagged soil that worked well, find out what that brand was and, and, and try that rather than just picking up the cheapest thing you can find at your big box store.

Yeah. And well, and you just mentioned something a little bit back that I think is worth bringing back up again, because you mentioned the pH level of the soil. And I think that's something that a lot of us hear, but don't actually know what it is, including this guy. So could you, could you educate us? Because it's something I hear a lot when I, when I talk to gardeners, Master Gardeners, and different things like that. I have no idea. I just don't know what that means. I've heard people talk about it with their pool too. So I mean, I'm—

those are the same thing.

That's right.

Well, I will give you a caveat. I didn't even take chemistry in high school, and I was a psychology major. So you're speaking to a girl who doesn't have a clue about chemistry. But here is what a farmer actually described to me before my first garden. He was explaining what, what pH was. And he said, think of the pH of your soil as a straw. And if you have too low of pH, if it's too low, like under, you know, under 6, just depending on what you're growing, or too high, like above 7, that's like squeezing that straw where the plants can't access the nutrients. That's what the farmer told me. And so if you get it in that perfect range where, depending on what you're growing, like I said, you know, blueberries love really

acidic soil, but for the most part, most vegetables will grow well in about a 6 to to a 7, then you're basically, you've got that straw at the widest it can be and your plants can uptake those nutrients. But outside that range, those nutrients are going to be restricted. That's, that's how it was explained to me. But like I said, I'm not a soil scientist.

Do you need a regular straw or a bendy straw to figure out the pH?

Well, they can't, it can't be plastic.

It can't be plastic. It's got to be like a stainless steel straw.

Absolutely.

Yeah. Some of those have a bend in them and some of them don't. So I'm, I'm just trying to wonder which Which, which one of those do I have to have in order to test the pH? No, I'm serious. I really have no idea how you test pH. So how do you test that?

I think what she alluded to is you send it to the Ag Extension Center in your state.

Oh, okay.

So you can just—

yeah, well, I know, I know around here, we just send it off to College Station, right? And they'll test it for you there.

Right. Yeah.

So those Aggies, man, they can test some soil.

We will do it upright.

That's right. That's the way that a lot of people get started. The only thing about those is most extension services don't give organic recommendations. So that was kind of a touchy thing for me as an organic gardener. And now you have soil companies. One that I've used in the past is called Soil Kit, and they will— it's— they mail you a kit to your home. You, they give you instructions, you mail it back, they email you results, and then they email you what organic recommendations they recommend for your garden. And so there are lots of different labs across the country who do that. So you have those options. Now I have tested those home kits that you can get from, you know, Lowe's or Home Depot or whatever.

I compared that to my local extension office and there were some variances. So if you really want to get dialed in on the accurate Soil test, I would recommend to go to a lab.

So some disparities between the big box store and the ag— got it. Oh, that's a little shocking.

It's shocking. I'm just putting it out there. Shocking. But, um, okay, so, so I'm just kind of sitting here thinking, okay, you've, you've given us some really good information so far, but, uh, here I am, you know, just regular old Kevin over here thinking, hmm, I want to grow some vegetables. Where do I start? What do I do? How do I get going after I go buy your book?

Well, you know, you can start at different places. I mean, obviously, you need to have a place to grow. So do you have that sunny spot? Are you going to— are you going to grow in raised beds or containers or a ground bed? Do you have the spot to grow in? And then as far as choosing what you're going to grow, you just need to look at what you normally eat. So last year I grew eggplant. I had never eaten eggplant in my life. So that was an experiment because that was fun.

Yeah.

But we still don't eat a lot of eggplant, so that's probably not where I would have started as a beginner, right? I want to start with the vegetables that I already eat as our family. So, and then you have to figure out, okay, what do I eat? if we eat bananas every morning, but I don't know if you guys can grow bananas. You probably can, but here in Arkansas, we, I mean, at least where I am, we can't grow bananas. So that's off the table. So you need to figure out what you normally grow that will grow well in your climate. And then from there, then you learn whether that grows better in the hot, you know, in the summer or in a cooler, in the cooler parts of the season.

Okay. So I know around here, one of the things, like for instance, Craig mentioned a Master Gardener. If you want to become a Master Gardener, You can go down to the local Ag Extension office and sign up and go through the training, go through all those sorts of things. But even more than that, surely around here there are some like support groups and probably Facebook groups and things sort of things like that. Have you found that there's a community of people like— I know for Craig, he takes care of bees, and so there's local communities of people that do that and help him and They help each other, those sorts of things. Have you found that there are communities for vegetable growers that can, you know, really walk you through the process if you need any help?

Oh, absolutely. I think Facebook groups are probably the best as far as asking questions. I'm a part of a Facebook group, Arkansas Gardening, and so all of that is based on your climate. It's very helpful. There's also Facebook groups for different garden garden teachers. You know, I have one. There's lots of other ones that people host and moderate, and you can get lots of different suggestions and ideas from people who have gardened before. And then also just Instagram. I mean, my whole Instagram is gardeners, and you learn so much with that community. Facebook groups and Instagram, now all that's online, of course, but I didn't have access, or they weren't there when I first started gardening, but now today's gardeners have so much availability for support. in that, in that area.

Man, that's, that's so helpful. I think that's one of the things that, um, I mean, going back to what, what you said about kind of getting started, I think I would start there, honestly. I think I'd try to find a community because inevitably you're gonna get, you know, moments down the road and have a question or run into a roadblock, and just having someone to just, just kind of reach out to and say, hey, here, uh, I've got this issue, what, what can you do to help me? I think that would be Really, really huge. So, um, next question I've got is, do you— I mean, you mentioned some things that you, uh, that you grew to begin with because y'all eat those

things, but do you find that, um, there are certain things that you enjoy growing more than others? Maybe because they're, I don't know, easier or more challenging, or just the, the process is, is more fun for you? Is there certain things that you enjoy more than others?

Oh, that's, that's hard. That's like asking me what's my favorite thing to grow. And, and I, and I, people, when people ask me that, I say watermelon because that's my favorite fruit, but I'm not sure if that's my favorite thing to grow.

Oh, okay.

As far as being enjoyable, um, this may sound weird, but I love growing garlic. You plant garlic in the fall, super easy, pretty hands-off as long as you keep it you harvest it in the summer. I mean, it really requires nothing.

Exactly.

And I think I like it too because it really starts to be beautiful in February and March when not a whole lot else is growing, at least in my climate. So you have a bare garden ground and your garlic is standing out. So I love growing garlic. Down here, you know, I love growing okra. That's one of the few plants that survive in our heat and probably would survive in yours. So that's enjoyable because everything else has gotten, you know, isn't handling the heat very well. So I would say okra is very enjoyable to grow as well.

I love growing okra.

I love the blueberry bushes. Blueberries are amazing. They're amazing to grow. And then asparagus, they take a while to get going, but once they get going, they're so delicious. So I could go on, but those were probably the ones that come to my mind first.

Well, so I gotta ask you, 'cause I actually grow blueberries. Are you, are you growing these in containers? You have them in the ground?

They're in the ground.

They're in the ground. Okay. Like, I have only had success with containers. And part of that is because you can control the acidity in the soil a little bit better and introduce it. And I don't, I don't know why it just works better. But I like, like this year, I've got like a bumper crop of blueberries coming in. I'm super excited about it. It might also be that I moved them really close to the beehives.

Yeah, I was actually gonna mention that just a moment ago. I was going, okay, so like the perfect scenario is for you to find a sunny spot with just the right, you know, soil, you know, you know, mixture and all that kind of stuff, whether it's a raised bed or in the ground, because you got the bees right there. Yeah, they're, they're, that's gonna be really helpful, right?

Well, as a side note on that, I know we talked about this last week when I got, I got nailed in the back of the head, but—

Yeah, I'm still laughing about that.

Thank you. My neck, my neck swelling has gone down. Yeah, I also— well, I was hoping it did. I wore the high collar shirt. And yeah, it wasn't—

it's redneck.

Okay, I see ya. Yeah. So but I've already been fussed at about where I put the bees. I'm gonna have to—

you gotta move them again.

I gotta have to move them.

I mean, they're right there. That's why, right? They're not behind the fence.

They're in front of the fence. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was convenient for me, but for no one else, right?

Well, just move them back where you're gonna put the garden. And then that way they're at least close.

That's work, Kevin.

Yeah, but we're gonna tell you something about that. We have honeybees as well. And when we got them, I thought they would do amazing pollinating my garden. And they're nowhere to be found. They're like MIA. The only time I see them, very, very, very rarely, sometimes I'll see them on my blueberries along with our native bees. But if you think Honeybees are going to pollinate your garden. They didn't. They didn't for me.

How many hives do you have?

Well, you know, that's up for debate right now. We know we have one. We had two, but it swarmed. But there's a lot of activity on it, so we're not sure if it's split.

We haven't.

We haven't looked yet, so we we may have two.

How long have you been keeping bees?

My husband has been keeping them. This is our 3rd year.

Okay. I might, I might be able to help you out with this here. They probably didn't, they probably didn't split. What you probably have going on is that other one swarmed. And that's because bees can be punks and do that. Yeah. And so they probably definitely left. The other one is probably just pilfering what they left behind. And that's what you're seeing. The other hive. Yeah. And they're, they're going in and they're pulling out all the leftover pollen and any other, you know, goodies that they can see that the other hive left behind when they swarmed.

Oh, they're, they're just gonna take that to their own hive.

Yes.

And, and just leave you high and dry.

Yeah. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm telling you this from experience. Um, oh yeah.

Craig, Craig will call me every once in a while. Sorry, Craig will call me every once in a while and be like, they left again.

Yeah, you know, if there was a way to lose bees, I've done it.

So, but we saw a swarm, they up to the pine tree right above and like, hey, it was too high for us to be able to capture.

Yep.

It was sad.

Yep. I, I, I tell you, one time, uh, a hive swarmed on me and it was just, it was just beyond the reach of my extension ladder. And it was like the third one that had swarmed on me like that year and left the hive. So out of frustration, I just took a chainsaw to the tree. So I, I didn't really care about the bees at that point. I was like, I know I shouldn't have done it. I was mad. I acted out of anger. I repented. It still felt good.

Still felt good. Oh man, that's funny. All right, so I do, do have another question. Um, so you mentioned one of the— probably the reason that you began growing, uh, vegetables was because you wanted to save money, right? Um, but you kept doing it and you took it further than you ever thought you would. Um, why is that? And specifically, I'm curious about if there's a certain, um, satisfaction that you got from it Especially, you know, just, just personally thinking, you know, hey, I grew this, maybe it tastes better because it is organic. And it's not, you know, it's not straight from the, you know, the grocery store or anything. I'm just curious what, what kept it going for you?

Oh my goodness, so many things. I would say in the early years, because my children were little, a 6-year-old and a 2-year-old, and I was coming out of working a full-time job. From the time I graduated college. So I'd always been doing something. So staying at home with kids was a culture shock. And the garden was something that I could pour myself into. It was my thing. And so early on, it was the satisfaction that I received was being able to put, put your effort into something that you could see the results of and not have to wait 18 years. Right. And so that was the beginning of why it was so special to me to begin with. But then as I started gardening more and more, it became

that satisfaction that you talked about of, I grew this. This is something that I was able to cultivate and to nourish. And since I grow pretty much everything from seed now, I planted these seeds months ago and look what I've got. And not, and this is nothing to belittle at all. This is absolutely part of it is that most of the vegetables that we grow just do taste better.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, they taste so much better when you pick them. Right now is asparagus season, and you wouldn't think asparagus would taste any different than what you get at the store, but I'm telling you, it does. Now, not all of them are that way. I mean, lettuce is lettuce to me. But I still love going outside and not having to buy lettuce at the grocery store.

Well, I'll tell you this, asparagus from Walmart tastes different than asparagus from H-E-B or Kroger. I'll tell you that right now. So I do know that it tastes different. So I can imagine that it would be much better if you were getting it right out of the garden.

Yes, absolutely. So, and it doesn't ever, it doesn't ever stop. My husband and my kids make fun of me because every time we have a meal and there's something on the plate that I grew, and it's my turn to say the blessing before the meal, I'm always thanking God for this that came out of the garden. And now they just all sneaker because it's, it's constant. Because I'll— sometimes I'll name the onions and the garlic and the tomatoes and I'll just go and they're like, okay, Mom, you know. But I'm serious, I'm very grateful because it— there is a satisfaction of growing your own food like none other.

Well, and it, it has to be. I mean, the way you're doing this, it has to be a significant savings because I mean, we, we spend a lot of money on, on fresh fruits and vegetables. Um, my, my kids, man, they— we, we don't give them a lot of sweets, a lot of candy, those sorts of things. So like, they can eat fruit just like nobody's business, and we spend a ton of money on that kind of stuff. So, um, I, I would assume that there's just a really significant savings in doing it. And Yeah, it's time consuming. But between the savings, the satisfaction, you know, knowing that you're, you know, you're producing for your family,

that's really, really huge.

It is, and it does, it does save money. I mean, in the summertime especially, or even in the winter when I'm going through my canned goods, just to see that the little section on my grocery list with produce, the only thing that I have on it usually is avocados and bananas. things that I can't, that I can't grow. I mean, sometimes I may run out of onions by this time of year, but I'm still, that's my goal is to have enough onions to last all year. So it's always a continual goal to have as much as I can to last all year, but it is a significant savings.

Yeah. So my, I grew up, well, I was born in Central Texas and my dad was the only one working. My mom was staying home with the kids. And we lived in this little bitty house where there was 3 of us and we lived in a 2-bedroom house. Um, so 5 of us total in the house. And my mom— we, we just didn't have very much money. And so my dad would go kill his, uh, his limit of deer every year. And so we, we put up the venison every single year, and that's how we— that's the meat that we ate. And then they, they had this massive garden. uh, in the backyard. And to my knowledge, they grew everything they possibly could. And we had 4

different, uh, let's see, we had 4— we had, we had 2 apple trees, a pear tree, and I think we had an orange tree. Um, so we had all of these, these fruit trees as well. And, uh, that, that's how we— that's how we ate. And my mom, she canned all year round. She made jelly all year round. She made pickles all year round, like all— she was constantly canning and doing those sorts of things. So I guess one of the questions that I've got for you is, do you— did you have to then learn how to can in order to keep these things? Or do you can? Or how do you preserve all of these things

for the entire year?

Yes, I had to learn how to can. And just like gardening, I taught myself. I bought the blue book of canning, or maybe my mom did at a flea market. That was the first thing that I read it from COVID to cover. So I learned how to can that way. And then eventually I started, and I think I did some freezing that first year because freezing isn't that hard. And then last year I really got more into dehydrating vegetables. I've always dehydrated herbs because that's a huge savings if you can dry them out. And then last year I started doing a little bit of fermenting, um, very limited amount, but mostly canning. Canning is really my

preference.

Yeah, well, I mean, it's a, it's a great way to keep things. And, you know, you do it right and you just put it on the, on the shelf, right? It doesn't have to take up freezer space. Or what I'm saying there is you can— it doesn't take up energy, it just takes up space, right? You don't have to, you don't have to cool it or anything like that. So Yeah. And again, whenever you pull those things out from being canned, they're so much better than anything you're gonna get in the grocery store. It's just still so much better. I wish that, that we still did that. I don't know. It's just a great, great feeling for sure.

So, Craig, what else you got?

Yeah, I was, I was actually going through your website while you're talking because I was curious if you had a canning or a pickling course, because if you could somehow teach me how to pickle okra, I would be your best friend forever.

Best friend forever.

Oh, yes. I actually have a course called Harvest to Kitchen. And it's not a necessarily how-to-can course. But it basically takes a lot of the different vegetables that I grow. And it shows you step by step how I do certain things. I don't have okra in it yet. I need to do that because we do— I do pickle okra. And it's really pretty easy. My husband loves it.

Oh, it's the most delicious thing on the planet.

I love that stuff. I agree.

And I'm with you on the okra as well. Yeah, it's super easy to grow. I mean, like, that thing just lasts all year long.

And I, I pretty much love anything pickled. I've pretty much figured that out.

You like pickled eggs? Yes.

Really? Yeah, I like, I like, I've had pickled green tomatoes.

I like that. Yeah.

I've had a lot of things pickled, and I love them.

Maybe I'm just weird. Jill, weigh in here. Pickled eggs? You digging that?

You know, I had planned to try to do that this year because we have way too many chickens right now. But I just haven't gotten to it. So I haven't ever had them before.

You haven't had them before? Okay. What we need to know, we need to be like, we need to—

So I'm curious, do you like them?

I know. Okay. Yeah. But But like, I'm— there are certain kinds of eggs that I just, I can't do.

I—

so I'll eat it. I'll eat a raw egg before I will eat a hard-boiled egg.

Oh, really?

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

So I don't know what it is about that consistency that you get from like either the pickling or the hard-boiled. It's not for me.

Okay. Well, I mean, so do you like deviled eggs?

No. That's just another boiled egg.

Well, exactly. But it's so much better than—

It's a boiled egg trying to trick me.

Man, it does a great job if that's what—

Just like the devil.

Well, yes, there's tricking going on. All right.

So Jill, I'm gonna get in trouble if I don't ask you this question, because my mom inevitably is going to listen to this episode. Because she keeps chickens, right? And do you name your chickens?

My daughter does, but I don't have a clue what their name is.

You know, okay. So my mom names them Star Wars names.

Yeah.

It's, it's, it's pretty epic, to be honest. They're not all Star Wars names.

Well, not anymore, because she ran out of the puns. But yeah, you ready for— do you know Star Wars at all?

Not really.

Not really? But like, if I said like Han Solo, you'd know like that's a character in there?

Yes.

Okay, so like it's Han Solo, Princess Leia.

Come on.

Jabba the Cluck. I can keep going.

I said, I said I wasn't going to use the laugh track, but I really feel like I need to use the laugh track on some of these.

So, but she, so she ran out of Star Wars puns and so now they're old country western singers. So she's got like Dolly Parton and Patsy Cline and yeah, she has way too many chickens.

Yeah, we did. We actually just had—

well, I say that she has just enough chickens to give me eggs consistently. So please continue to have the chickens.

That's funny. We have a, we have a comment here on Facebook from Tiffany that says they have a princess lair. That's good. Yeah, that's very, very similar. That's awesome.

Yeah. Well, you gotta get—

you have to have fun with this kind of stuff, right?

That's right.

I mean, if you can't have fun doing, you know, that kind of stuff, then what are you doing?

I applaud your daughter for naming the chickens. Yeah, I think, I think that, that— there you go. That's a good Instagram post for you right there.

There you go.

This is chicken. I don't know.

Whatever the name is. That's right. Well, okay, so, um, I do have another question. And that is, what, what got you to the point where you're like, look, I'm, I'm so smart that I need to write a book? Like, what got you to that point?

Oh goodness. Well, that wasn't actually my idea. I have written books. I've self-published 2 Bible studies and a couple of devotional books. But as far as the gardening book, a publisher came to me and they had recognized that there was a need for a very, very basic beginning gardener's book is what they told me. And they proposed that I write it. So that's how my book came about. And it was very enjoyable to write for sure. But it definitely was, was not something that I sought after. But it was something that, that they came to me and that's just how that happened.

It's an awesome book, by the way. I mean, I've been reading through it. Like, so like, if you— and let me tell you guys, like, I just went searching and I think it came up as like the number 2 gardening book on Amazon. on.

Wow.

So I mean, like, kudos to you. I mean, like, yeah, I mean, like, no, no, it's awesome. And so like, the illustrations in it are beautiful. But I also love those. Well, that's, that's fine. It's still your book. I mean, come on, take credit, Jill. Yeah. You commissioned it.

That's right.

What I really like about it is that it actually has like, it has simple step-by-step stuff in it. So like, if you want to know how to build A raised garden bed, like you have instructions in here on how to do that. Like you have, you literally have like recipes for good kinds of soil. And I think that, like, I think, I think your publisher was onto something. One, because it's obviously doing well on Amazon. But 2, like, like, this is stuff that I think people who are, are so intimidated by gardening feel like they don't have any idea what to do other than to just go buy a kit at, you know, Home Depot. And so like, you're like, look here, Like,

here's, here's a— here's what my journal looked like, which, by the way, keeping a journal about gardening, I mean, I can't do that, right? And so, and, and just like, here's the seasonal stuff that works for this, for this climate and this time of year, and here's how you can diversify your plant bed, and here's, here's my recipe for this soil, and here's— and like, it's, it's, it's broken up in such a way that it's not overwhelming.

Um, that's great.

Well, thank you. And that was the goal because as a beginning gardener, having no background whatsoever, I found that a lot of the gardening advice— now this was back in 2013, so resources have come a long way. There's a lot more for gardeners now. But I found that a lot of the resources that I found back then were almost like on a sophomore level or a junior level, and I needed a freshman level. I was Googling, what does a potato sprout look like? Because I wasn't sure if what green I was seeing was a weed. I mean, that's how, that's how clueless I was. And so my whole goal with everything I do is to speak to that person that was like me when I first started, who didn't have any idea what she was doing. And so

that really was kind of the goal behind the book, to address that person that you're, you're talking about.

Yeah.

So when are you going to write the sophomore book?

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Are you planning on writing another one?

It has been proposed to me, but at this point, it's just so— I'm so busy in my garden season, and I do develop online courses now. And so the timing hasn't been perfect yet, but maybe, maybe someday.

Well, and let me ask you this, because I think this is something that I think people like us kind of struggle with is like, you've got the podcast now, you're doing your online courses, and you're probably— I don't know if you're managing all your social media and books, and people are coming to you asking you to write another one. I mean, does it feel like you don't actually have time for the thing that started all of this? Like, it's difficult to get out in the garden now?

You know, that's a really good question. It's not difficult for me to get in the garden. Because I, I can't not be in the garden. Like, that's— I've got to do that. But it is difficult sometimes for me to separate what I'm doing now from the hobby that once was, because when I'm out in my garden and I'm doing what is, is my personal hobby, um, it's— it does bleed into my teaching of how to garden. And so sometimes those lines become blurry.

Mm-hmm.

And I have to back off and just be like, I'm not going to do anything right now except pull some weeds. I'm not gonna worry about Instagramming it right now. I'm not gonna worry about, about listening to a gardening podcast because I'm always learning still. I'm listening to other people who know way more than me, but sometimes I have to shut it all off so that I can get back to, you know, my, my, the whole reason I, I started doing it in the first place.

Yeah, I mean, like, you know, because like I think one of the pieces of advice they give so many of us is like, if you, if you do the thing that you love, you'll never work another day in your life. And it's like, well, sometimes the thing that you love can like take over and like, then it, then it, then it does begin to feel like work sometimes. And so it's good that you've kind of figured out a way to find a balance in all that.

Well, I don't know if I figured it out, but I recognize the need for it. And so I'm, I'm constantly seeking that balance.

That's awesome. Yeah.

So along those lines though, I mean, you're, so you're You're working from home. I mean, right? And so you, you stayed home with your kids and all those sorts of things. So at the moment when they go off to school, you have time to, to do the things that you do, whether that's your podcast or, um, you know, working in the garden, doing research, whatever it is that you're choosing to do. Uh, which, don't, don't hear me say that that's not nothing, because I know that that's very, very time-consuming. But my question is, What about those of us who may decide, I want to, I want to do a garden, but I don't, I don't have all that time because I do have a regular 9 to 5,

um, and I, and I come home and I've got to get dinner on the table, and then I got to do—

get—

make sure my kids are doing their homework, and then they got to go to bed, and then I'm, you know, it's too— I can't go outside whenever it's 9, 10 o'clock at night and do the gardening. So what would you tell someone like that who's really trying to to do something like this? They see the value, but they just don't really know how to fit it into their schedule.

That's a great question, and I've thought about it a lot. Um, I think that the key is to start small. I didn't start small. I didn't have to start small, like you said, because I was home with my kids. I didn't have to go to a 9 to 5, which was more like a 7:45 to 6. I didn't have a full-time job. But here's my goal when I talk to someone who's a first-time gardener, and I'm, whether they're in one of my courses or they're listening to the podcast or whatever, my goal is that they build a small enough garden and have enough success and enjoyment, which I've learned is a critical part, is for you to enjoy your garden, so that by the time the next season rolls around, they're telling

me how they're expanding.

Yeah.

Because I think if we start too big, then we burn out. And I think that's more likely gonna happen if you literally do not have the time in the day to do it. But if you start small, just with one 4 by 8 raised bed, and you're able to do a little bit here and there, and as the evenings are, you know, more daylight, you can have time to tend to a small garden or a small set of containers, just whatever you think is doable for you. Because here's the thing too, is that, you know, and I know that we make time for what's important to us.

Oh yeah.

We make time for Netflix or we make time for our TV shows. We make time to scroll Facebook and Instagram. We probably waste a lot of time. But what if we, what if we realized that growing that garden or even just starting was worth the time? And I think that what we'll find is that we will enjoy it so much that we will want to expand and do more. And it's not a burden as much as it is an opportunity.

Yeah, I think you, I think you hit a nail on the head there. It's like when, when you choose the things that are actually better for you, right? I mean, because like, like if I'm, if I'm choosing to like binge on Netflix, like then my, my excuses are gone because I've just— that's, that's— I mean, like, let's, let's all be honest, it's a waste of time. Yeah, like it's enjoyable, but it's a waste of time.

Sure.

And, and like when we all like— and, and at the end of the day, you don't want to look back and go like, I could have accomplished all these kind of things. I could have done, you know, spent time with my family. I could have been studying. I could have been, you know, playing in the garden. I could have been, you know, throwing the frisbee for the dog or whatever. And all those things would have been better than sitting on the couch and eating a bag of potato chips.

Sounds yummy.

It does sound yummy. Um, I'm sure Jill can actually grow the potatoes.

And there you go.

There you go. But, and I'm sure those potato chips would even taste even better.

Probably better.

Um, but at the, at the end of the day, like, we, we make choices as to how we spend our time.

Yeah. And, and I think the other thing that, um, you know, Jill, we— Craig and I are big, are big, um, proponents of family. And I'm curious, did you, did you find that your kids were involved in the process as well? Because I think one of the things that I, I get hung up on sometimes is like, do I want to do that or do I want to spend time with my kids? And I think one of the things, um, that our, our friend Celestina really honed in on a few episodes ago with when it comes to, you know, cooking, things like that, that getting your kids involved in the process, you're teaching them a valuable skill, and you're spending quality time with them. So

I'm just curious, did you find that that was something that your kids wanted to do? And was that part of the culture?

I would say it was more so with my daughter, and more so when she was younger. She's 10 now. My son's 14. And so yeah, she was out there with me a lot when she was younger. She loved little earthworms. She wanted to take them inside as pets. You know, they loved harvesting the carrots, the blueberries, the strawberries. You know, she and I have to race to get the strawberries because we're trying to get them quick before the other one does.

Yeah.

As they've gotten older, I think it's less of a novelty. And so I don't force them out there with me. But I do believe that just them being outside, when they're outside, even if they're not right beside me, they're part of it. And I think that they are absorbing more than I realize. If you talk to veteran gardeners, if you read other gardening books, a lot of them don't have the story that I have where I had no experience. My mom, my mom gardened, but I wanted nothing to do with it. And yet look where I am. I had to learn everything all over again. So she did have an influence on me, even though

I was never out there with her. And so going back to people that, like other authors or other gardeners, you, you hear them talk about their childhoods and a lot of times it's a matter of being exposed and then they circle back to it later. But I think you're talking to more about just spending time together. And I think it's important. for kids also to see that we're pursuing passions. And so even though that's not all about them, you know, I think that that's still good for them to see that out of our lifestyles too.

100%.

Yeah, 100% agree. I mean, you know, it's those things that they're going to look back on at some point and go, that was important to her. And, and those finding those things are super important. So very, very cool. What else, Craig?

Man, what haven't we talked about yet?

I don't know. Let's ask.

Well, let me, let me ask you this, Jill, because, and this was, I think I mentioned this before when I was talking about your book. One of the things that I struggle with is starting seeds. And I know this, I think you talk about a couple different ways you can do this. And so one, I want to know, like, are you cultivating your own seeds now? Are you going out and getting seeds from outside sources? Are you harvesting those out of your own garden at this point? How are you managing that?

I do both. I do save, I do save seeds. My okra, I have been saving seeds from my okra since my very first season. So I haven't, I have bought, I can't say I haven't bought new okra seeds. I've bought different varieties to try. But as far as my main crop, my Clemson Clemson Spineless okra. I've been saving seeds for them. So if I can save a seed, I will for the next crop. But nowadays I'm doing more experimenting with different varieties, partly just because it's fun and partly because I want to get some more knowledge now that I'm, I'm, you know, teaching others.

Mm-hmm.

And so if I were just a hobby gardener, I probably would, would focus more on the savings, the seed. But when you do save seeds, that's just a whole other level of satisfaction to know that I haven't paid for okra in 8 years. You know, that's its own level of accomplishment. Yeah. So both for sure.

That's the, uh, that's the, the super couponer coming out in you, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, are there, are there any, um, what, and this is actually something I was, I was curious about earlier because I think you mentioned, um, man, there was a tree you mentioned that you were growing, or did I hear that wrong?

Anyway, she talked about wishing she could grow banana trees, wishing she could work out.

Yeah. So are there, you know, because a lot of this is, you know, ground vegetables and things like that. Have you, have you played around with any tree-bearing fruits or like nut trees or anything like that to incorporate into the, into the acreage there?

I do have 3 apple trees, 2 peach trees, and a fig tree, but they're all very young. They haven't produced fruit yet. And here in Arkansas, that can be kind of tricky when it comes to diseases. So I'm, I'm just not sure how that's gonna go. But yeah, that's definitely my goal. I've had grapevines for a while and diseases have been terrible for those. So I haven't really gotten a good harvest for that yet. But yeah, I'm constantly trying to think what else can I grow? I bought cranberries for the first time.

Oh, wow.

Well, I brought them, bought them last year, but they didn't survive. But so I bought more. So yeah, I'm always trying to expand in that area if I can.

Yeah. Did you get hit pretty hard by that, by that freeze storm that came through?

We did. We got 11 inches of snow, which I think was a blessing, honestly, because that ended up kind of insulating the ground. And we got -6, which is way, way colder than our zone should get.

Yeah.

But did you have just a—

go ahead.

Go ahead. Well, our, our, my blueberry plants, they were the one I was more concerned about because obviously they're 6 feet tall, so they're not under that snow. But most of those blossoms survived. There were some that didn't. I'm still waiting for signs of life for my fig tree, but I'm just not sure about that one yet. But the other ones did fine. Everything else did fine.

Yeah. One of the, one of the things I'm waiting on our property to see if it comes back, we have these massive Japanese loquats. You ever had one of those?

No.

Oh, they're so good. Um, you'll have to come visit sometime and have one.

Um, yeah, his kids will just go out and just grab them off the tree, right?

They will, but like, this is— it's like a 15-foot tree now.

Oh yeah.

And so like—

Don't you have— don't you have a smaller one too?

Yeah, there's 2. There's a smaller one, but they'd like to— they like to get in the big one.

Okay.

Um, if you have— like, most people don't eat them, Jill, but like, because around here they're used as like ornamental plants. But they're delicious. It's the way I describe it to people. It's like a honey peach, but like, there's just not a whole lot of flesh to it. And it's mostly seeds, which is why people don't tend to eat them. But like, man, there's my, my kids can literally like sit out in the yard for like 2 or 3 hours and they'll just sit there and eat them and eat them and eat them. But anyway, that was one of the ones we lost. I think we lost like a blood orange tree, waiting to see if that one, that one started showing some life, but all the, you know, the upper branches are gone. That was, that was a brutal storm.

Yeah, it was. So yeah, I'll tell you what, I thought a lot about you guys. Oh man, it, it was, uh, it was brutal. We don't ever want to do that. I had to spend way too much time over at Craig's house. It was not, it was not enjoyable for anyone. So, well, listen, uh, I'll tell you what, we— I'm sure we could go on for a long time. You got a lot of knowledge up there in your head. Um, I'm super impressed with, with so many things. And one of the things I just love is the fact that you took something that you didn't know how to do and you just took the bull by the horns, figured it out. Didn't, you know, it's not your degree, you know, it's not the thing that you went to school for,

but I think it does speak to the fact that you can do anything you want to if you just have the desire to do it and take the initiative. So super awesome stuff. We definitely recommend going out and purchasing this book if you're interested in learning how to grow vegetables. And We're going to be linking all of, all of the information here from Jill, including the book and her podcast and all of the social media that, that she has. We'll be linking that up so you can follow her and make sure that you can, you know, get on her radar because she's, she's one of those people you want to be, be close to whenever it comes to this, which is super awesome.

So yeah, and if reading's not your jam, I mean, you can take her online courses.

Yeah, absolutely. And we encourage that for sure. But here's the deal. We, we absolutely can't end this episode until we do the thing that everybody is waiting for, when that is the Final Four.

Final Four.

That's right.

It sounds way cooler with my voice like this now.

And this is Conceited Craig. Yep. We've had Two Bourbon Craig, we got Conceited Craig.

That's right.

Conceited Craig. All right.

Tune into whichever episode you want to get your choice of Craigs.

That's right. All right. So, uh, Jill, here comes the fun part. We are going to ask you the final 4 questions we ask each and every one of our guests. Are you ready for this?

I'm ready.

All right, here we go.

All right.

So if, uh, we were to call you up and say, we got a project, we didn't tell you what it was, you had to leave your house, what is the must-have tool that you would not leave your house without?

Well, I know this is probably not original, but I think the reason is original. I wouldn't leave without my phone.

Okay.

But that's because I listen to podcasts all the time. Even in the car is a big time I listen to podcasts. So after I drop my kids off somewhere, that's the first thing I do is I get a podcast on. So I honestly probably use my phone for that more than, more, more than other things. So that would be probably why.

All right. So other, other than obviously The Homeowner Show, what, what, what, what podcasts you, you rocking? These days?

Well, it depends on the genre, the gardening genre. I love Epic Gardening, Kevin over there, and the Joe Gardner Show, Melissa K. Norris, Pioneering Today. Those are some of the ones that I have on that I'm always listening to. I do like to get out of the gardening sphere and just, you know, get into the personal sphere. So I love Christian podcasts, Annie F. Downs' podcast, um, Jenny Allen's podcast. She's, you know, from down there with you guys in Austin, near you. But I listen to those quite a bit. And then I do really enjoy the Raising Boys and Girls podcast, which is a Christian podcast.

I love that one too.

I really— I love that one. So those would probably be my favorite ones for like personal that I'm always listening to.

Awesome.

Cool. Awesome. All right, next question. Here we go. What's a job you walked away from? So Uh, you can take this as a career. We do know that you switched some things up there, but also maybe you have a job around your house that, um, that you took on, or maybe your husband took on, your family took on, and, uh, you got into it and just realized, I can't finish it, gotta call in the professionals. But what's a job you walked away from?

Goodness, I can't think of a project that I've walked away from. Um, I pretty much finish what I start. Like, that's, that's a big thing for me is I don't like to not finish things.

Yeah.

Um, and then I already talked to you about, you know, walking away from my job, which was a huge decision because I, I really did enjoy my job. Um, I, I'm gonna go back to my college days because this was something that I found, I've have found looking back has been really strange. Back when I was a freshman in college, I was taking the required speech course. And after doing a couple of speeches, the professor asked me to join their speech team, debate team. It was something I can't even remember. And I was so flattered that I told him yes. And so I started doing that, and then I just didn't want to do it anymore. And I think partly

it was because I was dating my now husband, and I was more interested in, let's see how fast I can get him to pop the question. And I was, you know, I had other things on my mind as a freshman in college. But looking— so I, so I quit that. And that was really strange because I had never really quit anything in my life that I could recall. So it was a big decision. But looking back, I'm like, that was a, that was an activity in communications, in public speaking. And yet, look where I am now, you know? So I, that's what I do every day is with, with the podcast. And so I just found that interesting

looking back that That I walked away from that opportunity.

Awesome. Very cool. Well, all right. Uh, 3rd question. How do you wind down at the end of a long day?

Um, I love crime dramas.

Oh, nice.

I am an NCIS, all 3 of them junkie. And so, um, and I love some Blue Bell Butter Crunch ice cream. I can't do that every night.

Man, I love that stuff. It's so good. One of my favorites.

That is my— yes, that is what I do. I will watch NCIS and, um, I will eat my Blue Bell. And then when I go to bed, I'm usually reading a fiction crime drama to go to bed. It just gets me out of my head.

Yeah. Well, have you, uh, do you have any others that you watch besides NCIS?

Um, I do. I've watched Bull because the character was NCIS. That's how I got on that. Um, those are, those are the main ones. I'm trying to think. I don't think that there's another one that I watch. It's mainly those. For a while there, I was watching way too many and I had to cut back.

Yeah, so my, my wife, uh, my wife loves those as well, and she got me hooked on many of them like way back in the day. Like, I remember, uh, being really into like Cold Case and Law and Order and some of these other types of things. Man, I, I could go on because we watched Way too many of those things.

So, so earlier when we asked you about podcasts, did you not mention that you listen to true crime podcasts just because you didn't want to have to fall into that stereotype?

I have actually never listened to a true crime podcast.

Oh, good girl.

That's funny.

I don't have time. I have too many podcasts that I listen to. I can't have another one.

No, it's good. I'm pretty convinced that's a cult.

Yeah, I think so too. Yeah. Much. Yeah, I'm not gonna go there. All right, so let's keep on— keep going here. Last one: what's one of the best pieces of wisdom or advice you've ever received?

That, that one is, is very hard because I have so many people who've spoken so much wisdom into my life over the years. I think, I think the, the piece of advice that I probably that's probably stuck with me the longest is something that I heard from Lisa TerKeurst many years ago. And it was, if I can remember it, don't let people's praise go to your head and don't let their criticism go to your heart.

Mm-hmm.

And that was always something because for so long, um, I, it's a little bit personal, but so for so long I would judge my worth based on what I thought other people thought of me. And so if I performed well enough, if I was good enough, then I was then I was paid. If I wasn't and if people didn't like me, then I was not. And so that was definitely— that's not me now, thankfully. But I think that, that helped me flip a switch in my head of realizing that, um, that other people's opinions of me does not dictate my worth and my value. And so that's really kind of kept me grounded.

Yeah, that, that's, that's huge. Whenever you, whenever you can realize, whenever you get to the point in your life, whenever you realize that your worth is not derived from what other people think of you, Then you've, you've hit on a real, a real, real piece of wisdom right there. So that's, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing. For sure.

Absolutely. Cool.

Well, here's the thing. We misled you a little bit. Okay? It's not our fault. What is our fault? But we actually deceived you a little bit. We apologize for that. And going back to the Devil Dag comment. So here's the deal. There's actually one more question. It's the 5th question, but Craig gets to actually ask this question.

That's right, because it's the one I can remember. Jill, if people want to get a hold of you, how would they do that?

Like actually reach me one-on-one? Are you like—

No, no, they want to find you. They want to find your content. They want to find the things that you're producing. Where do they go?

You know, if you're obviously, if you're listening, if you're a podcast listener, the Beginner's Garden podcast would be where I would, where I would start. Instagram, I love hanging out on Instagram. Gardeners are amazing there. And that's at The Beginner's Garden. And then if you're a reader or the journeywithjill.net, and then obviously Facebook also have a page there.

Fantastic.

All right.

And I know we did, I know we didn't get this, this wasn't like the topic of the show, but you said you had some other books. And devotionals. Can, can people search your name on Amazon and find those there as well?

Yes. Yes. I have a Bible study on the book of Acts and on the first half of Exodus. The first one's called Journey Through Acts, and this other one is called Journey to Freedom.

Awesome.

Yeah, that sounds great. I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to go pick that up. Sounds great. Cool. Well, excellent. Thank you so very much. This has been fascinating. Thank you for taking the time to, uh, to join us today. And yeah, if you want to hear any more from Jill and learn from her, please, please, please go search her out on those, those things. But we are so very happy that you've tuned into this episode of The Homeowner Show. And we hope you'll do that each and every Tuesday as we put out new content every single week. And if you haven't already, go ahead and go press that like and subscribe button. That would be fantastic. Leave us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. And yeah, tell your friends about

us. But until next time, we'll see you later.

See ya.