Doula Services with Kristina Tamez

This is episode number 121 of The Homeowner Show. Whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is Craig Williams. Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show. We are so glad that you could be with us this time. Kevin didn't like the way I said time last time. No, it's just that you were like, Time, time, time. I can go back to it. So you sing it this time? I sing it. All right, that's fine with me. It's all good times. Yes. All right, people, this is the show. I hope you enjoy it. We're here,

it's happening now. Uh, so we, we got some, some public affirmation. Um, we did? Yes. Oh, I don't even know if I shared this with you. Okay, so what we got, we got, we got A few public affirmations. Excuse me. Did I tell you that we got ranked? Ranked by whom? By Apple Podcasts.

No.

Yeah. So, we were the 33rd show in our category, which at first I wasn't all that impressed. I'm like, 33rd, that's like a really far back loser. Right. It almost makes you feel like a third.

Right, yeah.

33%, you know. So, but in perspective, there's 1.5 million podcasts out there. And we were 33rd in our category, and I think there's only like 10 categories.

Really?

Yeah. So like when I saw that, I was like, that ain't too bad. That's not— hey, we've been worse. Yeah. So we— yeah, we've been nothing.

Exactly.

Now we're something. That's pretty awesome.

Yeah.

So that happened.

Okay.

Which was pretty cool.

Yeah.

Um, and then, um, we— our clip Uh, was getting some attention even from, uh, how are we gonna say their name now? Ria Ryobi. Ria Ryobi. Well, it just depends on who you're talking to, because if you're talking to normal folk, yeah, it's Ryobi, right? If you're talking to an employee, it's Ryobi.

Ryobi.

Yeah, yeah. And when I say employee, I mean employee of Ryobi, not an employee of Home Depot, because they're gonna say Ryobi too. Yeah, yeah. And you know, if this was, you know, if If branding was a democratic republic, we'd be in the majority, so we're right.

Yes.

And they're wrong.

Correct.

So Ryobi, live on. Good luck being called Ryobi.

Yeah. So.

Yeah, no one's gonna know what you're talking about.

Exactly.

I don't even know what a product would be that is called Ryobi. No, me either. It's nothing I'm aware of. But it's one of those things where like people are pretty adamant.

Yeah.

My favorite ones though were like, so the question was, how do you pronounce And R-Y-O-B-I-E, right?

Yeah.

That's not— no E. R-Y-O-B-I. Um, how do you— how do you pronounce that? I can't even spell. How do you— how do you pronounce that? My favorite ones were D-Walt. I also like— I also like the passing Star Wars reference of Ryobi Kenobi.

Yes, yes.

A couple of really good— good ones out there. Yeah, so I— I am with just high levels of anticipation waiting to walk into a Home Depot with a Ryobi rep there.

Yes.

Because I want to bug the bejesus out of him. Well, I actually saw one, uh, bizarrely enough, at Walmart the other day, um, driving their, you know, their vehicle that was branded all on the side, and she was wearing a pullover that had the logo on it. And if that was like a week later, I would have definitely been asking her about it. So, well, and also just for you, Kev, our buddy Sean Medlin sends his hello.

Oh.

I got to stop and chat with him today, and he was telling me, he's like, dude, I got to come on the show, um, because we need to talk about, you know, assisted living during a pandemic. Oh my gosh, I've, I've thought about him so many times recently.

That's weird.

Well, I mean, I mean, he's good looking and all. He's way better looking than you or me. Um, it's the hair. He's got the hair. He does have— Sean, if you're listening, well done, sir. I, I would just like to have hair. Anyway, um, so, uh, I've been thinking like his job has had to be so different recently. I mean, even in his very unique setting, that's like the most optimal, you know, memory care and, you know, quote-unquote nursing home type of place, the most optimal place, it's got to be weird.

Yeah.

Got to be. Well, I can, I can tell you it has. I've been over there several— not in the facility, because that would be bad.

Yeah.

Um, but I've been over there several times. Okay. Um, and I mean, he, he's on top of his game, man. Yeah. it going on. I have no doubt. So anyway, we have a really cool episode for you guys today. This is something that we have not talked about ever. Okay, so here's the thing. We're at a— people, we, we are chromosomal disadvantaged. Well, that's in so many ways. But, but here's the thing. Like, we are a homeowner show podcast, right? And our goal is is to cover the gamut of bases.

Yes.

However many bases there are, we want to cover all the bases.

Yep.

Let me tell you, today, yeah, we are going to cover a base that few other homeowner shows could possibly—

They won't do it.

Imagine. They won't do it. They don't have the guts. No, I agree.

Yeah.

Yeah, the fortitude will not be there. But we, just for you, the listeners out there, this is for you guys out there. Well, and here's why I thought this particular topic, and just by the way, we're going to introduce Christina here in just a second, but this is why I thought this particular topic was timely and important.

Okay.

One, it's December. Baby Jesus.

Well, sure.

Right? We're celebrating baby Jesus.

Yeah.

And if, you know, You don't have to believe in him in order to recognize that this is the season, but this is his season. Yeah, and let me just tell you, he was not born in a hospital. No, he was not.

Nope.

So, part 2.

Okay.

We are probably right at about 9 months into this pandemic. The stretch mark— I mean, stretch that you just took on that was pretty impressive.

Impressive!

I know that many of you are going to be interested in this topic and potentially seeking out the services of this guest. We have Christina in the studio from Motherly Transitions.

That's right.

That provides doula services. Am I saying that right?

Yes, you are.

To expecting mothers. I would guess you might provide them to mothers who aren't expecting, but what are they paying for?

Right. True.

Yeah, so we're glad you're here.

Thank you.

So why don't you go ahead, tell us a little bit about yourself and, um, how you became a doula?

Okay, well, first of all, my name is Christina Tamez and I'm a registered nurse. Um, I got my licensing at Texas Women's University here in Houston a long time ago.

Where is that, by the way?

It's in Houston in the Med Center.

Okay.

It's just right outside the Med Center. It used to be right next to, um, Methodist on Fannin. And now, it's a little further down.

So, when you said, like, right there by the zoo?

No, it's a little further out.

A little further. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. It's actually in the Med Center.

Okay.

So, you have MD Anderson, Methodist, Baylor, all of that right there.

Okay.

So, yeah, it was a long time ago. So, they built their own building now. And it was '93 I graduated.

Okay.

So, I've been doing this a little while. The premise of what I'm doing now, I must be honest, I don't like to chart. So, I want to help mama labor.

Yeah.

So, the word doula is Greek and it means with woman, and that's what we do. We're with the woman in labor, and that's what I enjoy the most, of giving her power, giving her encouragement, giving her emotional support, and actually helping the husband really step in. Sometimes, they get a deer in headlights, and that's okay. Sometimes, they just say, tell me what to do. I want to do everything. I'm like, no problem. I can tell you what to do. I can tell you how to help her. So, um, that is really what a doula does. Not everybody realizes they need one until they get in it and they go, wow, we've been doing this 12 hours already. Dad's tired.

Yeah.

He's forgotten what to do. He— his list of, of things to do and remember, he's already forgotten. And he's tired and he's hangry, the whole nine yards. So you really don't know until you get there.

Yeah.

So, that is our purpose. My partner and I, Priscilla Bricky, we really want to encourage education. That is where it starts. My very first birth, I was 16 years old. My good friend in high school got pregnant, and she wanted me and her mother to help her. She did not want that guy anywhere near her, which I get. And so, I did the whole 9 yards of Lamaze classes with her for, you know, 8 to 10 weeks. And practice the breathing techniques. We get there, have the baby, little boy, named him Michael. Beautiful birth. I knew zero, zero about life. Okay, I'm 16.

Yeah.

I grew up here in Houston, so I grew up on the north side. And, you know, either you were going to go to college to be a really bigwig somewhere, or you were going to stay home and have kids. I mean, there was no in-between. My dad was disappointed to hear I wanted to go to nursing school. I needed to be a legal secretary. They make good money.

They do.

Typing. I'm like, no, Dad, that's not what I want to do. But I get through the birth and we're all done. And I tell the nurses, what is it you do? What are you called? And they go, oh, you mean our occupation? I said, oh, yeah. I had no idea what the word occupation meant. And I said, yes, yes, that. And they said, well, we're registered nurses. And we trained in labor and delivery. That's our specialty. And I said, well, how do I do that? I want to do that. Tell me, map it out right now.

Right.

So I made my decision at that moment and it completely changed my trajectory. Wow.

Very cool.

Yeah.

Well, so, so, so you— Texas Women's College, you go to nursing school.

I do. Yes.

Okay. And so then do you, do you pick a specialty while you're in there or do you have to do additional schooling afterwards? How does that, how does that work?

You pick a specialty. So you have to do rotation in every field.

Right.

So you have to do geriatrics, you have to do children, you have to do home health, you have to do community health, and you have to do a rotation in labor and delivery. You have to do a rotation in emergency room. And I— why can't I just hurry up and get to labor and delivery? Why? Why do I need to do this? I don't want to do this. I figured I knew really quick that I did not want to be anywhere else but in labor and delivery. So, uh, yes, you have to decide that you want to be in that area. And then once you graduate and pass the NCLEX, you pass the the exam, then you have to go around interning and you have to, you know, go to hospitals in which they are

willing to hire someone and train them from day one. So, I hired on with Hermann Hospital there in the, in the med center right there on Fannin, but right by the zoo. And, uh, I interned there and I actually was hired on. I worked night shift. Um, it is true, when there's a full moon, there's more labors.

Wow. It is really—

it is true. It's very true.

That's crazy.

And then I switched to day shift at Women's Hospital. Which is a little further down in the med center. And I was there for a number of years.

Wow.

Then I worked at some doctors' offices, one in Kingwood and one in the Northeastern area. And then I had a long sabbatical raising my own children. And then now I'm back in doing what I want to do.

Yeah.

Which is not chart.

So, okay, so here's, here's a question. Why, why did you choose to become a registered nurse instead of an OB-GYN?

Great question. Uh, the big deal was— the big deal, I didn't want to be sued.

Oh, okay.

I mean, let's just be honest.

Yeah.

Their insurance against suing is very high.

Sure.

Their premiums are very high.

Okay.

It's a lot of risk. It wasn't about me being afraid of the schooling. In addition, they basically have no life. I mean, you're on call a lot unless you have a partner, right? And your clients will really want you. They don't want the partner. So, um, that really, that really sealed the deal for me is the liability and Yeah, more freedom.

Correct.

Yeah.

Correct.

Man. Great question. I like that. I've never been asked that.

Oh, thank you. Oh, really?

Yeah, really.

Leave it to me to ask the good questions.

I like it.

I'll just tell you that, Craig. Well, that's really interesting. So I think that one of the things that I'm interested in is, well, first of all, let's just put it out here. Craig and I know nothing about this subject.

Okay.

Even though we've had kids, we know nothing about this subject. We haven't had any kids. We watched.

Correct.

We, we have kids. We did not have the kids.

Sure.

That's a big difference.

Sure, sure, it is.

Um, so what's the difference? I mean, so we— I, I don't know, I'm— I don't know 100% for Craig. I think I know the answer, but we had both of our children in a hospital.

Correct.

Um, delivered by the OB-GYN.

Yes.

So what is the real difference between, um, giving birth in a hospital versus, say, like a birthing center versus, um, an at-home. Or, you know, one of the things that's been kind of popular recently is like underwater births and those sorts of things. And so I guess just kind of walk us through what is the difference. And, um, I mean, because you kind of went— if that's the spectrum, yes, you're on one side of that spectrum. Really?

Yes. So, I like to start with what we know. Okay, so this generation of 50 years or so, we are used to having babies in the hospital. I will tell you, it hasn't always been that way.

Yeah.

So, if you recall, you know, things like, you know, back in the early '90s, Medicine Woman, they're all having babies at home.

Yeah.

And there is a show out of Europe that talks about midwives. It's called Midwives. Okay.

It's on Netflix, right?

Yes.

You also just cited Dr. Quinn, I think.

I did.

Okay.

I did.

I know things.

Yes, you do. You've seen some TV.

Okay. I bring— I bring an element of value to the show. Yes, you do.

Yes, I like it. I like it.

It's about time.

So, we need to start there.

Okay.

That it happened in that women had babies at home, And they had their mother-in-laws there and their sisters and their aunts and their neighbors. It was a woman event. Men were in the living room waiting. Okay. So not that I want to go back to that, but just telling you that's where it started from. Now, I will say, since women moved into the hospital, the mortality rate of babies and moms have gone down.

Okay.

And that's phenomenal. I'm happy for all the interventions that we can have, all the technology, all the monitoring. It's great. So in steps the OB, the obstetrician. That's what they do. They are trained to deliver the baby, but they're also trained for surgery. That's what makes them different than a midwife.

Okay.

Now, you have 2 categories of midwives as well. You have certified nurse midwives. That means they went to nursing school first, then they went to midwifery school. Then you have a professional midwife, and that means they're a layperson. They didn't have any background. They are learning by interning hands-on. Okay. Okay.

So, so one of them, one of those 2— so, so the first one that you mentioned, they're gonna have—

certified nurse midwife.

Yeah, they're gonna have more medical training, correct, than the other one?

Correct. Okay. And they're usually, um, more accepted in the hospital.

Okay.

Um, there are several hospitals here in Houston that have midwife groups, and they all have to be certified nurse midwives. They all have to have their RN license first, and they all have to be under the guiding of an OB.

Okay.

So if something does go wrong and the baby does need to be— the mom needs to have surgery to get the baby out, then the midwife would be an assistant.

Okay.

But a professional midwife, one who learns by just doing, cannot do that.

Okay.

If she goes to the hospital with a client, she is a guest.

Okay. She's just there maybe more for emotional support than anything else. And I'm so— so at that point, Like, what, what would be the difference between a professional midwife and like me as a husband, for example?

Yes.

Not much.

Well, I think there's— I think there's a lot of difference. First of all, we're female.

Oh, well, yeah.

Okay, so that, that does something different for the mom. She realizes that this person who is helping her, guiding her, has actually been through it.

Sure.

So there's, there's a commonality, there's a camaraderie already.

Okay.

And if she has a relationship of trust, then she is going to listen to whoever's telling her, hey, we need to get you in this position, no matter how difficult it is.

Right.

She trusts her. Secondly, what I like to tell dads when they ask, you know, what role do I have? And I say, whatever you want. So, as much as you want to be involved, as much as you want to be in my class, and you want to ask questions, and you want to read, I'll give you the whole list of books that I'm giving your wife as well. So, I want you involved, but I want you comfortable. It's really hard, I will say, to see someone you love in pain and you don't know how to fix it. And what do men have? They have testosterone. What does that mean? They want to fix.

Yep.

So, it's really hard to just throw them in and they're uncomfortable or make them sit along the side and they don't want to be there. So, it's a little dance. Sometimes we have them very involved to their comfort level, and then sometimes we can tell they just need a nap or they need to go eat.

Yeah.

So, um, back to the midwives and the OBs. So the difference between having a hospital birth versus a birth center birth— there's really not a lot of difference between a birth center and a home.

Okay.

Because the midwife brings everything with her, all the monitoring, If you want to have a baby in the water, you can. It's a blow-up pool right there in the living room or in the bedroom.

Okay.

So all that's set up and ready to go, and then the midwife will help tear it all down.

Okay.

And it's perfectly clean when everybody's gone. It works out beautifully. The only thing that cannot happen at home is, of course, surgery.

Right.

But she can resuscitate baby if baby is having trouble. She has oxygen with her, and she can give medications to stop any hemorrhaging. If we need to call an ambulance, of course, Of course, we can do that.

Now, all those things that you're mentioning, that's if the midwife is a registered nurse, correct?

No, that is a professional midwife delivering at home.

So, they can administer oxygen, resuscitation, all those things?

Yes.

Wow.

Yes, they have to. Yes, they have to be able to.

Okay. Oh, they have to be able to do this. I got you. Okay.

Yes, they have to be trained and then they take a test as well.

Okay, so do they have like a license or a—

Yes.

Oh, okay.

Yes, yes. You have to have X number of births. in a certain number of months. You have to have referrals. You have to be under the mentorship of another midwife, a professional midwife. If you're— if you are seeing a client all through her pregnancy and you labor with her, and at the last minute she says, I think I want an epidural, I want to go to the hospital, then she— the student, the midwife student loses that credit.

Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So do they— is that what you're talking about? So many births? I mean, is that to get their license, or like every year they have to have so many?

No, to get it.

To get it. Okay. So after that, they're good?

Correct.

And then I imagine they have like continuing education, right?

Correct.

Okay.

Just like I do. Correct. Correct.

Me too. Not for that, but—

Yes, yes, for killing bugs, right?

That's right. Yeah.

Um, so there's not a whole lot of difference between a certified nurse midwife and a professional midwife. Except that the professional midwife cannot get in the hospital and actually deliver a baby. She can be there for moral support, but that's about it.

Okay. Now, would she— I mean, like, if she was like a student in the hospital, would she not get credit for that?

If a professional midwife goes into the hospital, she is a visitor. She cannot deliver.

No touchy.

Correct. I mean, she can support mom, but she can't catch the baby. Okay.

Yeah.

And then of course, you know, when you're in the hospital, you have the options of getting an epidural. So you get options of pain relief. There are certified nurse midwives that are advocating, and some midwives can— are licensed to bring it to your home. So back in the day when you, you know, at the dentist, or even further back, like probably, probably 50 or more years ago, remember, we're like 60, where they took an inhalation and They got all relaxed. So you go to your happy place, and they are bringing that back. And there are some hospitals that have certified nurse midwives there, and they will let them do that. But, uh, the hospital has to be really

open to those policies. Um, I know Conroe Regional does, um, but there are a lot of other hospitals that have midwives, but they're not that progressive yet.

Interesting. Yeah.

So there are options for pain control.

I just want to point out, like, that's, that's such like an odd thing that something that was done 50 years ago is now considered progressive.

Correct. Correct. Correct. Correct. I will tell you, it's making a full circle.

It's so weird.

It's really making a full circle.

What? Okay, so, so let's ask that question. Why?

Why?

Okay, so why did it go away?

Yes.

And why would it come back?

Okay, I will, I will tell you my personal opinion, and it's probably a little political, um, but my personal In my personal opinion, it was propaganda. It was to give the doctors more money, more control.

Because the epidural is more expensive. When you need an anesthesiologist. Or you have to have an anesthesiologist, and so then you got a whole nother person in the room.

Correct. Correct.

And you got to monitor differently. Okay.

Correct. So all of those interventions, in my opinion, lead domino effect one to another. So what has made that change? Women are getting educated and they're realizing I loved my doctor, but he wasn't even there. Or he came in at the very last moment just to catch the baby. So I don't— I don't have someone holding my hand like I thought I would.

Right.

Or the doctor wasn't even there. You got the doctor that was on call in the group.

Right.

So they feel a little cheated in that regard. In addition, they are feeling like not a person. The dignity is a little stripped when you get into the hospital. You know, who wants to be in a gown that opens in the back? And, you know, barely ties and everything is just exposed. And yes, your labor nurse is fabulous. I was trained in always respecting their privacy and always keeping the curtain closed. But they're only one person.

Right.

And there's no one else to do that. Hence doula.

Yeah.

I mean, that's part of what I do, making sure I'm maintaining her dignity.

Sure. Let me ask this question.

Yes.

I think everyone wants to know, why the stupid gowns? Like, really? Yeah.

That's a good question.

I mean, like, it's the butt of every hospital sitcom joke. No pun intended.

Yes. Yes.

No, that was a huge pun intended.

Yeah.

Yeah, huge hairy pun intended. Why? Why do they do that?

We want easy access. So the big deal is, The shoulders have to have the snaps so they can fold off and we can get it off quickly in an emergency if we need to do CPR and actually put the pads on you.

Okay.

So that's basic. For a mom in labor, especially a low-risk mom, she— we hope she's up and moving around before she gets epidural. We don't want her laying in the bed just succumbing to the pain. We want her active and moving about. It makes labor go faster. So the idea is we need access, but do we have to have access 24/7? No. I encourage my moms, bring your panties, wear them, bring them. We're also advocating for moms to use adult Depends because they're just so much more absorbent. You don't have to wear the yucky net panties that the nurse at the hospital gives you. They are stretchy, but they don't hold the pad in place very

well. So those Depends work really, really well and they're disposable. It works. It's easy. it gives moms some dignity.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, and in addition, we encourage our moms to buy their own hospital gowns, and the nurses will somehow treat the patient with more dignity.

Really?

It's, it's a subconscious thing. It just happens, and it becomes a conversation piece. Oh, I love your gown. Where'd you get this? Oh, I don't know if you can keep this gown on because we have to be able to get it off quickly if we need to. And then I instruct the client Make sure you let them know it comes off on the shoulders just like theirs does. And it opens in the back for the epidural if you need it. And they're like, oh, wow, where'd you get this gown? So it becomes this, you know, really girly talk.

Yeah.

And it really lowers the anxiety in the room.

Well, yeah, I mean, anytime you can get back to clothing, then, you know, you get— first of all—

Especially in front of strangers.

Exactly. It gets your— I mean, that's a very opening topic, right? That's something Hey, where'd you get this? That's a very girl thing to talk about.

It is.

Woman thing to talk about.

It is.

Kevin acting like he understands women again.

Exactly.

It's nothing but trouble, man. I talk about clothes all the time. But I do want to— I want to circle back just briefly, and I want to— I don't want to hang out on this, but, um, you mentioned this, the whole, the whole idea of they realize that their doctor's there just to catch the baby, right? Well, like, I, I remember very specifically we had both of our kids with the same doctor. at the same hospital, and the doctor office was right next door. I mean, like, with the— it's in the same facility.

Sure.

But, you know, just across the parking lot, so to speak. And I— we, we were told anytime we went to the doctor that if, uh, she gets called, she's got to leave. It may take longer than expected, but she would be back in a few minutes. And that typically is what it is. Like, you know, yeah, hey, She's 2 minutes away, get here now.

Right.

The doctor walks over, delivers the baby, and literally goes back and starts doing clinic hours again. And so that— you're right, that definitely— it's one of those things that I honestly, I saw it from a different perspective than what you're kind of throwing it out there. My perspective was, I'm so glad our doctor is so close so that she can get over here so quickly, right? And, and now that you're saying it, I'm going Oh, yeah. She wasn't there very much.

Nope.

The delivery nurses were really the ones that are offering all of the emotional support, all of the, you know, the care and those sorts of things.

Yes.

But they're under the direction of the doctor.

Correct.

Only in theory, really. I mean, if they had to fall back on something, I'm sure that's where that goes. But—

I mean, literally, the nurses in the hospital are the doctor's eyes and ears.

Yeah.

So, they began a trust relationship when the nurse was first trained as to when this doctor likes to be called. They like to be called sooner than later. Some like to be called at the very last minute. Some need a little more time because their office is not on campus like that. So, you kind of— it's this dance. It's this delicate dance.

And I'm sure there are some patients who require more Than others, you know, possibly.

For the most part, if it's daytime Monday through Friday and you go into labor in the middle of the night, you arrive at the hospital, they will admit you and determine whether you need to be admitted or not in the maternal assessment area, or what we call triage. Then that is a labor delivery trained nurse, and she is kind of like the ER of OB. And then she will make a decision. Yes, this I need to call the doctor, let them know she's admissible and what room we're going to. The doctor will come by before clinic hours start, make an appearance, maybe examine her, maybe look at the monitoring strip, and, okay, I'll be back at lunch, or, you know, start this medication and I'll be back

at 2 or whatever. And then they come back after clinic hours and depending on their role in their group, if they're in a group, whether they're going to be on call after hours.

Okay.

So if they're not, then they'll come by after clinic hours and say, I'm not the doctor on call today, it'll be my partner. The nurse knows how to get a hold of them. When the doctor's on call, they have to be in the building for that 24 hours.

Okay.

So that does give some comfort. But if it's a doctor you've never met, you know—

Then yeah, then that's different too.

Correct. But I must say, if a doctor's trained properly, then yes, anybody can catch your baby.

Yeah. All right, so I— that was a really good answer. Um, but I, I guess the thing that we really want to know— so what do you do?

Yes, yes, yes!

We've bragged on all these other people now.

I'm so glad you asked. So once again, it's Greek. The word doula is Greek and it means, uh, with woman. So that's what we are. We're with her every step of the way. So, um, I— when we interview with clients, we give 1-hour consultations free for clients that are interested in our services— with COVID everything's via Zoom. Before that, it was always in person. We met at coffee shops, at our office— we have an office in Shenandoah— and sometimes in their home. But with COVID we're doing everything online now. But they ask that. And I say, well, I mean, my partner doesn't really like me saying this, but I say it anyway. We're like her mother without the baggage.

And Priscilla's like, Christina, not everybody likes their mother. I'm like, but they're gonna love us. It doesn't matter. We don't have any emotional tie.

They're gonna wish they had a mother like us. If their mother was awesome, then they would be just like us.

Exactly. And I will say, the dads, once we're in the room and actually working, and he feels the anxiety in himself go down, and he sees his wife calm and in control, it's not like the movies, the screaming, you know, arching your back, hitting the husband. And that can happen. But if we're in the room, we're calming it. Low lights, we bring our own music, we use essential oils, we're using massage on her. We run 12-hour shifts. So whoever is— it's just my partner and I. Whoever shows up first is there for the first 12 hours. If your labor goes longer, you get a fresh doula, just like you would get a fresh nurse after 12 hours.

Okay.

So we've only had to do that a couple of times. We're pretty good at timing it about, you know, when we need to be there. The thing that women and men don't know is that first-time moms take 24 hours sometimes. So it's anywhere from 17 to 24. That's normal. So we want to time it in such that we're there when it's hard.

Right.

We don't want to be there so early. So our job is to calm the room. That's our job. Massage her, make her feel empowered, give her verbal affirmation. You can do this. Your body was made to do this. And I'm here to help you, remind you of that. If dad needs a break, he gets a break because I'm here. I'm not leaving.

No.

I don't go to the cafeteria to eat. I'm right here.

Yeah.

I have nuts in my bag. I'm eating here.

Yeah.

I'll use her bathroom. I don't step out to the bathroom. I'm right here. Some dads do need the sleep because they've already done this with mom for 10 hours.

Right.

They did this all night. I show up in the morning. So that's what we do. We are there to empower her and make her feel comfortable. If I've had some— one mom actually say, can we get some light in here? Open the curtains. And she wanted light in the hospital room. No problem. I can, I can accommodate anything she needs. She typically will be very endearing to me and say, Christina, that hurts. Don't do that. Okay. And then the dad says, I want to do it. Okay, let me show you. I show him what to do, hip squeezes or massaging her back in a certain way, counter-pressure, helping with inversions, all these comfort things that we help her with. As soon as he does it, she's like, no, I like Christina better. So he's

like, oh. And I said, don't take it personal.

Yeah.

It's that we are connecting now.

Yeah.

She feels connected. She doesn't feel alone. She doesn't feel overwhelmed. That's why she wants me. It's not that my arms are stronger, because dad is way stronger. And there are times my arms need a break. And I'll say, I'm gonna let your husband do this while I step out to the bathroom. So, we really do encourage dad, but it's up to his comfort level and hers.

Sure. Okay, great. So, are you guys I mean, when you say that you're there with her, are you guys primarily doing home births? Are you guys doing in hospital? What are you guys—

We are 80% in the hospital.

In the hospital?

In the hospital. And I will tell you, I think that's where clients need us. They need us to explain the procedures. They need us to help them navigate their choices.

Yeah.

They need reminders because they can— I have a great childbirth class. It's not 8 and 10 weeks long. You know, you go every week. to do all these exercises. It's 1 day, 4 hours. It's a PowerPoint presentation. I do give you the list of things that you have to do. You have to find a pediatrician. You have to find a playlist. Although there's a good one on Spotify, I must say. It's called Labor. It's very good. I like dancing to it. It's very good.

I was listening to that this morning. I didn't know that's what it was. I thought you listen to this while you work. This is Labor.

It's a really good genre of music. It really is. It's very clever. And then, um, you have to read the books. I encourage meditation. So if mom is not familiar with meditation, I will highly encourage her and send her places to go that are for free on YouTube to learn to meditate. A lot of what's happening in labor is natural. This is the natural way we expel a baby, but the coping mechanism happens right here between the ears.

You know, that's interesting because my wife told me just the other day. She— I don't remember exactly what we were talking about, but so, so we induced with our first. Um, and my— you have to know my wife, she's very, very— she's a planner. She's got to have everything kind of planned out. And, uh, my daughter was born in August, in the middle of August, and it was right before school was about to start. She's a teacher. And so she was— she just was, you know, had all these thoughts in her head. And so, um, we induced. Well, our second one, uh, came on his own early, um, and, uh, just about 2 weeks early. Nothing, nothing crazy.

Right.

And she told me just the other day, for the first time ever, she was like, I wish I didn't induce for the first one. And I was like, why? And she said, it just was— it was just a much better experience with not having all the pressure of having to do things on a timeline. It just kind of happened.

And it was—

so for her, there was, there was more pressure Yes. In one over the other.

Yes.

And you— I mean, as a first-time mom, you don't know those things.

You don't know that unless you're in my class.

Well, we were not in your class.

No, you weren't. So that's, that's one of the topics I talk about.

Yeah.

So we— I start off my class with a basic anatomy and physiology just to make sure everyone's on the same page. And dad really enjoys that because he's like, oh wow, I didn't know that. I didn't know you ovulated on one side of a fallopian tube one month, and the next month is the next tube. And you can still have babies if you only have one, and this is why. So I show everything very anatomical, make sure everyone's on the same page. And then we go into the stages of labor, and then we go into kinds of labor. And one of the kinds of labor is called induction. What does that mean? It's an artificial

starting of labor.

Why?

I'm, I'm for it if there's a medical reason.

Sure.

I'm not for it if it's for convenience.

Yeah.

And I'm sorry, I don't mean to dog your wife.

No, no, no, no, no. I mean, that was because I think she would— I think she would absolutely say, yes, I wish we didn't do that.

Yes, it makes everything harder. Yeah, everything. So your body automatically releases oxytocin in our body to start labor. That's a natural process. Plus, when the water breaks, it releases hormones around the cervix and it helps make the cervix open, encouraging dilation. That's all great. But now we're giving it to you artificially in an IV.

Right.

It's going to be 10 times harder and probably longer.

Yeah. Is there a reason that it makes it harder?

Well, it's artificially induced. So the medication starts at 2 micro units and it goes up every 15 minutes by increments of 2. So we can go up to 24.

Okay.

So it's a gradual increase, but the purpose is to make the contractions stronger, longer, and more effective. The only way to do that is to keep going up.

Mm-hmm.

So mom goes from, I'm cramping like maybe I'm on my period. It doesn't feel terrible. They come in waves. It's a come-and-go kind of pain. But then when the Pitocin starts, it's an artificial starting of contractions. It makes your body respond more intensely. And we want them closer together and stronger. Mom goes, wait a minute, we're an hour into this. Wait a minute, I think I need the epidural.

Yeah.

Because it is— I've only seen 2 moms go through an induction with Pitocin and not get an epidural.

Wow.

It's kind of a— it's kind of a game changer if you have to be induced. And you use Pitocin, you probably are going to need an epidural.

Yeah. Well, and let me ask you this because this is something we actually experienced and I think it was with our second one. Is there any reason that they would— and when I say they, I mean people in the hospital— would push Pitocin on an expecting mom?

There are many reasons.

Well, I mean like—

One of which is induction. We're starting from ground zero.

Right.

Another one is labor stall.

Uh-huh.

So she's been in labor 12 hours. She's stuck at 7 centimeters for 4 hours. So if you don't make progress every 2 hours, they need to do an intervention.

Okay.

To make sure things are still moving along. And I mean, let's be honest, why? Let's ask that question.

Yeah, no, I mean, yeah. Why?

Why do we need to move it along? Because you're taking up a bed.

There we go. That's, that's what I was—

You're taking up a bed.

Yeah.

So just like sitting at a restaurant too long, you're taking up a bed.

Yeah.

Um, which I understand, it's a business.

Sure.

I, I do understand that. But in addition to that, we run the risk of mom getting a fever if she got an epidural for longer than 12 hours. That's why they take your temperature every 4 to make sure you don't have fever. We don't need baby cooking higher than 98.6. So that would be an indication for a C-section. Fever indicates infection. So there are reasons we need to start Pitocin. We've stalled, we've tried everything, we're not moving along.

Yeah.

Um, we're, we're coming up on this 12-hour mark that her water's been broke, increased risk for infection. We're running on the 12-hour mark of having an epidural, running on the increased risk of infection and getting a fever.

Yeah. So there are reasons And so you, you can sort of be the level head in the room and be like, like, look, labor hasn't stalled for 2 hours. There's no reason to put Pitocin in this system.

Correct.

You don't— because let me tell you, from our, like, our experience, it was like, girl, you got to put Pitocin in you. I mean, like, that was the message we were getting. It's like, you got to do this.

Yes.

And it's like, well, the nurse is telling us this.

Yes.

Well, okay, are you telling me that because it's in my best interest or because you need this bed?

Yes.

We don't know. I mean, she could have had the best intentions in the world.

Yes.

Or she could have been getting pressure from somebody else to get this girl out of here.

Correct.

Yeah.

Correct.

So, and let me also say this. That was the same situation in which the— like you said, if you get Pitocin, you're gonna get an epidural, and those are not 100%.

Correct. And I teach that in my class as well. There are pros and cons to every intervention there is out there. There's pros and cons to having your baby at home.

home.

There's pros and cons. So I want to make sure, as your doula and as your advocate, as your educator, our main thing is to help you through these transitions.

Yeah.

That's our job. And if we're not honest and lay it all on the table so that you can pick your cards, we're not doing our job. So I like to tell people we're like putting a very big jigsaw puzzle together. We know what the front looks like. We know what the end result we We want a healthy mom, healthy baby.

Right.

We want mom to be in the most serene environment. You know, we don't want her out of control screaming. There's a time to moan. There's a time to be loud. But we don't need to do that when you're 2 centimeters. We need to calm the room down. So this is a marathon. Sometimes we need X number of pieces to start with, and then later we no longer need those. Sometimes we need lots of pieces on the table initially.

Yeah.

Maybe, maybe the mom has— we had one client who had, uh, her baby had spina bifida, which the portion of the spine is not closed. She had an intrauterine surgery. So while she was still pregnant, they did surgery on her. Yeah, it's very innovative. I mean, the way that things have come around, it's really amazing. Well, she was high risk. They did not want her to have ptosis.

Pitocin.

They wanted her to go into labor on her own, but she needed to find natural ways to do that because they did not want to start Pitocin because her uterus has already been injected, or this— the muscles have already been separated by a laparoscopic surgery. So they were very concerned with that.

Wow.

So, um, you know, in that instance, we don't want Pitocin, but we really need to start this naturally. They highly encouraged her to get an epidural, and I see why. I see why. So every intervention has its place. It's about when you put that puzzle piece in.

Yeah.

When you need to take it out.

So a question that, that interests me is, do you feel like there's a certain type of person that, um, a doula is more suited for than another type of person? And to, to kind of give you what I'm thinking in my head is Um, there are certain people that I think just anxiety is, is, is high in them to begin with.

Yes.

And, and, and let's be honest, I mean, there's very few things that are more anxiety-ridden than your body doing something it's never done before.

Yes.

And you having to push a baby through something that you think you can't do, right?

Correct.

So there's that. Um, there's also people that are like high researchers.

Yes.

They research everything, they know everything, you know, they have the answer that you're trying give them already.

Yes.

And maybe they have less anxiety, or maybe they just— they, they feel like they know more. So that's how they deal with their anxiety. No, definitely true. Um, so I— and I don't know, those are just 2 extremes that I kind of think of in my head. Um, so do you think that there's a certain type of person that could utilize the services of a doula more so than, than somebody else?

I think everyone can use a doula.

Okay.

Now, a mom who has already You got 3 kids, by that time, your labors are pretty quick.

Sure.

So our services aren't as needed because you're not in labor so long.

I was going to ask real quick, what do you mean by quick?

Well, normal first-time moms, anywhere from 17 hours to 24 hours, sometimes longer. So a second-time mom, if she was in labor for 24 hours, it's going to be cut in half second time around.

Okay.

And then subsequently, it's going to go faster and faster.

Okay.

So, you know, somebody who has 5 4 at home already, pregnant with the 5th, she might have a 2-hour labor.

Okay. Yeah.

I mean, does she really need us? I mean, it's hard and heavy and very intense. Yeah. But by the time I'm driving to her, you know, we're already heading to the hospital.

Yeah. And she, she's not— she doesn't not understand what's happening.

Correct.

She's done this 3 times before, 4 times before. She's been to the show. Yes.

Yes, not her first rodeo.

That's right.

It's not. Um, I will tell you, the first-time moms that are very research-oriented are very good for us. Uh, you know, they're— they stimulate us and we like it. We don't, um, we don't say any question's stupid, so please ask us anything. We want to answer. Um, you know, we've had clients call us crying, my husband just doesn't understand and I'm just crying all the time. I don't know what to do. So we got on a Zoom call and we became her mom. And, you know, have you had it— have you had a chance to be husband and wife?

Yeah.

I mean, there's obviously some disconnect. What's going on? And yes, he's working a lot. Okay, well then let's hire a babysitter for the other kid, and y'all need to have a date night, and things like that. So we can be that shoulder and that house of reason, which is great. We love it. Um, but then I really do like the clients that do have a lot of questions. My doctor said this, or my midwife said this, I'm really on the fence about it. What are my alternatives? I'm so glad you asked. You know, I love that client. I will tell you, our best clients are yogas, yoga instructors, yoga participants.

Okay. They—

our yogis are the best because they already know how to self-soothe. They already know how to bring their heart rate down, what it means to go internal and breathe.

Breathe.

I teach that in my class on where to go. I don't teach meditation, but I teach where you need to go to learn it. We also advocate for hypnobirthing as well. We don't teach that, but we give you the resource to go teach yourself. It may work beautifully for the first 10 hours of labor, and then after that, it's not working anymore.

Mm-hmm.

So what we like to tell people is you got to have a lot of tools in your tool bag. I'm going to teach you what you need to practice so that You can use it easily, readily.

Mm-hmm.

Just like a bodybuilder just can't go and pick up 200 pounds. He's got to build up to that. He's got to practice. So you have to practice the meditation. You have to practice the comfort measures we tell you to do. Otherwise, it's not going to help. I can get there and I can do it all for you, but it's better if you've got some experience with it. So we like to teach our class in the third trimester, not not too soon in the pregnancy that you forget by the time you're in labor and not too late that if the baby comes early, you're not educated.

Yeah.

We also are both certified. Priscilla and I are both certified to teach breastfeeding education. So that's part of my class. It's only like maybe 20 minutes worth. It's basically about position and how good milk is. But the main teaching happens when you actually deliver. So after you've had the baby, We stay with you for 2 hours.

Okay.

So we are helping. Once the bed is— especially in the hospital, the stirrups are put down, the legs are put down, a new gown, new sheet, everything's nice and clean, and baby up to that point is on skin-to-skin. It's perfect. Um, then we lower the lights and we say, okay, what side would you like to begin with? So if the baby takes 45 minutes to get the first suck, then that's what we're doing. We're waiting. We're getting baby in the right position. It takes a lot of work for a baby to even understand what to do. Their mouth has to be in the right place, their tummy, their arms, their tongue. It's— we have to wait until they're ready. It's their first time too. Yes. So a lot of moms get very worried. Oh my goodness, they're not latching.

You know, they're pulling away. Let's just wait. Or they're sleepy. That's normal. We can wait. So that's another way we're helping mom. Dad would have no clue.

Yeah. And that's okay.

And that's okay. But that's what we're here for.

Yeah. I have to, I have to really censor and censor myself sometimes. Uh, but no, I, I, uh, I think that's wonderful. One of the things I was thinking as you were talking about all that is I remember some really awkward conversations that we felt we needed to have with someone, questions we needed to ask that would have been really awkward to ask most people. And so to have someone that you can ask a really awkward question to, that, you know, first of all, this person's a professional.

Yes.

They're trained. They know, they know what they're doing. They can answer this question professionally and without it being too awkward. I can imagine that would be, be really, really helpful. And even, and even if it's not necessarily awkward, it could be as simple as, hey, I'm experiencing this Correct. Feeling—

correct.

I, I don't— like, my doctor's not available, right? But I can call you, right?

So that's how, that's how our 24-hour, 24/7-hour service works. So as soon as a client signs on with us, purchases a package, and makes a down payment, we're theirs. So if you hire us when you see it positive on the stick, we're yours the whole time.

Yeah.

So, um, our phones are always on. Um, somebody's going to answer you between her and I within 1 minute.

Oh, wow.

Even at 2 in the morning.

Wow.

Our phones don't turn off. If she's in labor or she needs to sleep, we're communicating. Hey, you got the phones? Yeah, I got the phones.

Wow.

So that's how— that's how we do that. Um, if some— some moms hire us, you know, a week before they're due because they're panicking, they're unhappy with the answers they're getting, um, they're being told they need to be induced induced and they can't really get a clear answer on it. And so they panic and say, I need to hire a doula. Somebody said I need to hire a doula. And so we service them and, you know, answer all their questions. Of course, they're not getting the most out of their money because they've hired us at the very end.

Right.

But we answer everything from, um, the— I have these pains, low front, uh, they come and go and they're more pronounced at the end of the day after I've worked. Well, that's round ligament pain, and we know that and we'll tell you how to fix that. You need to wear a belt or you need to get off your feet. Um, also, the great thing about Priscilla is she's a massage therapist by trade. I'm a nurse by trade. She's a massage therapist by trade. And she, in January, um, 2021, she'll be finishing up her professional midwifery school.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, she'll be ready for the test. So, um, it's been a great journey for her, um, to have, you know, kept going up and up. And I'm thrilled that, that she was going to be able to add that to our services. Um, but so she said, well, you know, try this, try this, and if it doesn't work, let me know in a couple of days. I can come to your house and give you a massage. Yeah, it's the best thing ever to have a massage while you're pregnant. The best.

I would think so.

It's the best.

I had many while we were pregnant. Yeah, they were great. Yeah, mine were fine. Yeah. Well, I, I, I think that, um, that what, what you're saying makes, makes so much sense because there's very few people that are really qualified. And what I mean by that is, is so many people have babies.

Yes.

But most people don't know why their body's responding the way it is.

Correct.

And especially first-time moms. And I would bet you have a lot of repeat clients because—

We do.

It's like, it's like the first-time mom is the one who really needs all of the answers, but the second-time mom now has experienced the comfort of having someone with you. So I can see how that would be really great.

Yes.

But, you know, I just hear a lot of, a lot of pregnant moms who, they're, they're nervous, they're scared.

Yes.

I was talking to someone just recently and they were like, yeah, I was at the ER again last night. And I'm like, why? And they're like, well, I was experiencing this pain. And I'm like, you go to the ER all the time. Like, yeah, there's probably a better way to do this, you know? And the amount of money that you're racking up going to the ER, you could probably ask someone else some of these questions.

Yes, yes. So we get all kinds of questions about pain, about, um, my feet are swelling, my blood pressure's going up, my doctor's concerned, they're talking induction. Um, I have, um, I have fluid leaking out of my boobs. What is that? I spotted— you know, we have natural remedies in order to help start labor if we need to. Most obstetricians don't like to go to 42 weeks pregnant. They— the studies have shown that those placentas, you know, that the sustaining part of the pregnancy is getting older. And it is. And it doesn't perfuse as well. But midwives deliver 42-week babies all the time.

Okay.

So they like to start talking induction At your due date, if you have not shown any signs of labor, they want to schedule you for the next week. They want you to go to 41. That's it. Um, but so if we hear that from our client, we say, let us know if they start talking to you about that so we can give you natural remedies. Putting the breast pump on her breasts will induce labor.

Really?

Yes.

Interesting.

Having sex with an orgasm for mom. And the dad goes, all right. And she goes, I don't think so. And I'm like, honey, you just gotta do it. You just gotta do it. You just got to. It'll be the best ever. The semen helps induce labor.

Interesting.

We also have cocktails. Castor oil is the main ingredient, but it does have champagne as well to help relax. That will— may give you lots of cramping with no labor. It could just rev up things. It could start full throttle. So there are instances in which some moms aren't qualified to have that. We do get a lot of moms moms, it's their second baby. Their first baby was a C-section and they didn't have a doula and they want the experience. Every mom wants to know, can I do this?

Can you do it? Yeah.

And that's— we're on a lot of Facebook pages for crunchy moms or VBAC-friendly. And that's the first thing they say, how can I increase my chances of having a vaginal birth after C-section, which is a VBAC? And our first answer is hire a doula. You need the right support. You need to stay home as long as possible. In order to do that, you need a qualified person.

Sure.

Yeah.

And I think the, the big thing, in my opinion, is the registered nurse side of that. Like, there's something very comforting about someone who— in your case, not just a registered nurse who became a doula, right, but a registered nurse who worked in a hospital.

Yes.

Multiple different hospitals even, and then chose to become a doula. So you've kind of— you've been on both sides of that.

I have.

So that kind of leads me into a question. What makes you and your services different than any other doula out there? I have no idea. If I were— I would literally Google doula and start looking at starred reviews views. You know, that's the only thing I would know to do.

Right, right. I will tell you, a lot of people do look at our certifications. First of all, um, Priscilla's certifications are a mile long. Um, she has every certification there is to have out there. She is a— what is called a DONA International Certified Doula. So, um, anyone can be a doula. You just go through that program and you can be a doula. So essentially, I'm overqualified for this. But I love it. And I'm an entrepreneur. So, what's not to love?

Yeah.

So, for me, it's a no-brainer. But I will say that the other side of that is I'm a born teacher. And if you don't know what you don't know, you can't make a decision. So, when Priscilla and I found each other, we literally were finishing each other's sentences. It was kind of amazing. And you don't find that very often where another person believes that wholeheartedly in looking out for that person's best interest through education. You can do what you want, but we're going to make sure you know all the pros and cons.

Right.

And we're going to support your decision in a nonjudgmental way.

Right.

So, first of all, that's what makes us different.

Okay.

Secondly, you know, all the credentials that we have together. Third is that we We are— it's only us 2. So if you hire a single doula who has her business by herself and she can't make it for one reason or another, she does have a backup, but you've never met that person.

Yeah.

So, you know, that can be an issue, uh, running into the same issues, you know, with OBs. Um, the second thing is, because you hire both of us, we're on a 3-way text, so we all know what's going on, what's been going on this whole time. It's not like we need to, you know, catch up with you in the middle of labor. We know what happened last week.

Yeah.

So that helps as well to keep everyone on the same page, the camaraderie, sending pictures back and forth. You know, we get a lot of baby bump pictures. It's adorable. The next thing that makes us different is that we can do it all. So not only are we doing birth, we're doing— as a birth doula, we're doing the childbirth education class. I just developed, because a client requested it, which It's called a 4th trimester class. It's literally postpartum and infant care.

Okay.

So I just developed that. That's something a lot of the doulas don't do. We also can provide the breastfeeding support that a lot of doulas cannot do because that's not part of the doula instruction. That's something Priscilla and I did extra. In addition, we schooled ourselves. We went into a class, a conference called Spinning Baby. And it's around the world and it's now, just now, making its way into the hospital setting, which I'm really happy. But it's about putting mom in a physiological position in order to get the baby in the right position to help use gravity.

Huh.

It's not about laying on your back.

Okay.

Ironically, it's about being on your hands and knees.

Oh, okay.

Sometimes with your butt in the air. So, you know, when your kids, they pop their butt up and their chest is down. It goes against your thought about gravity, but that's what helps get the baby in the right position.

Okay. Okay.

So, it's really kind of unique. So, she and I did that. Not every doula is qualified to do that. We did that a couple years ago. The next thing that makes us different is we do a procedure called placenta encapsulation. And it's a—

Okay, I was gonna ask you about this.

I'm so glad.

I'm so glad. When you and I were conversing on Messenger about this, I was like, I have to ask her about this. Yes.

Yes.

I've heard about this.

I'm glad you've heard of it.

I didn't think it was like a— before you even say what it is, I have to know, is this a growing trend?

Yes.

Oh, yes. Okay, like, just, just—

it's amazing.

I, I, I, I— for everyone, like, I find it disturbing. Yeah, of course. Um, oh, oh, we— Craig and I discussed this offline like 3 weeks ago because he mentioned it to me and I I threw up in my mouth a little bit. So—

and I'm kind of glad you did.

Okay.

Because you're guys and you should.

So anyway, carry on. Let everyone know what you're talking about.

Okay. Okay. So not every doula does that either. So placenta capsulation means we take the placenta for processing, put it in capsules for human ingestion, and we're meaning mom. Okay.

Right.

Nobody else. We're not passing it around. So it is an ancient Chinese tradition. That they take the placenta and they put it in smoothies, they add it to their stew meat. We don't do that.

Uh-huh.

So we go by the CDC guidelines that it has to be boiled for 20 minutes. If it's boiled any less time, it can let viruses and bacteria pass through because the placenta is like a liver. It's a temporary liver of the body. It's a filter. That's what it's supposed to do. Just a side note, very, very few babies are very ill with COVID even if mom is positive, because the placenta did its job.

Oh, there you go.

It's a great thing.

Way to go, placenta.

Yes, great thing. Love that organ. So, um, that's the first thing it does. So we have to boil it. So if we boil it any longer than 20 minutes, then it's going to lose its efficacy. So we boil it, and we do that in our office. We don't do it at home. Some doulas do it at home. Some doulas hire a third party to do it.

Sure.

We do it. So when we're there at your birth, we take the placenta with us. So one more thing we do that others don't do. We— it's a 12-hour process, so it has to be cleaned. We cut off the edges of the sac, we cut the cord at the base of the placenta, and then we boil it. Once it swells up like a big round roast, it gets really fat, and it's, it's a gray-brownish color. Then we cut it in pieces. And put it in a dehydrator like jerky. That process happens for 12 hours.

So this, this is all something that you do?

Yes.

That's crazy.

With our hands.

That's insane.

Yes.

Kevin, do you want us to dehydrate some placenta? I'll just say our, our placenta was, uh, disposed of. Discarded.

I know.

At the hospital.

Medical waste. I know.

Medical waste.

Let me finish, Nick. Let me finish before I gross y'all out. So, um, we put those strips of jerky, so to speak, in a grinder. It comes up to a powder, and then we put it in refillable capsules.

So, like the, the ones that, like, you can take like an aspirin or—

Correct. Okay, correct. And then we deliver those to her 7 days after she has the baby. We make a postpartum home visit, and we talk about breastfeeding. How's it going? If she bought a package with a massage, then she'll get a massage in her home.

Yeah.

And the pills delivered. So you don't take the— the mom does not take the pills until the milk has come in, and that can take up to 7 days. A lot of moms don't know that. They think the milk comes in day 1. It doesn't. 3 to 5, upwards of 7.

Yeah. So remind me, there's, there's a name for the—

The stuff before?

Colostrum. That's what it is.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. It's, it's very high-dense nutrition. It's very good.

Right. So, so educate us real quick. What is the benefit of the placenta?

I'm so glad you asked. Thank you.

Me too. Chinese tradition, right?

Communist babies. It's not enough. I'm with you, it's not enough. So some people do call us just to do that.

Really?

Yes, they're in labor and typically a family member calls, we forgot to ask who does doula placenta encapsulation, can you come get it? She's pushing now. And we're like, Yeah, we have availability. We'll go get it.

Let me ask you real quick, if you don't mind sharing.

Go right ahead.

What does it typically cost to get your placenta processed like that?

If you are already a client of ours, it's $250. If you're not, it's $350.

Double it.

Really?

Double it.

Really?

Would you do it for that much, Kev?

Would I?

Yeah. I mean, that really seems inexpensive. It is.

It is.

It sounds very inexpensive. I mean, it is. For, I mean, for what? Okay, you, first of all, you said it takes you a 12-hour process.

Yes.

For you personally.

Yes.

That's after you have handled this thing from the hospital to your office. Then you're taking it personally to the client.

Yeah.

For $250?

Yes.

Let me tell you, some of these crunchy moms are my clients. They'll pay it.

Okay. Yay. Yay.

Yay!

Yeah.

All right, so back to the— sorry, the benefits. The benefits. Yeah.

Okay, so there's lots of research on whether, you know, what is exactly in there. First of all, you've lost a lot of blood. Mom's lost a lot of blood. We've uprooted the tree, so now we're left with a divot inside the uterus. Okay, so now it's bleeding. Um, so she's gonna bleed for 6 to 8 weeks postpartum. That's normal. Um, what ends up happening is she gets tired, not only because of the blood loss, the red blood cell loss, And her body's having to make up for it, and she's forming a scab inside her uterus, but she's also decreasing in her sleep cycle, right? She's not sleeping 8 hours like she was before.

Yep, yep, not just her.

Right, exactly. Sorry, we can't give you the pills. Sorry.

Okay, okay, I'm gonna go ahead and apologize for that comment. I'm gonna go ahead and show you how much sympathy everyone on the internet has for you right now.

Zero, zero, that's correct. Zero, zero. You know what made that baby.

That's right.

Um, so it gives her iron, and it's an iron supplementation. It's great, and it's her own, so her body made it. It's kind of amazing.

Hmm.

The second thing it gives— and this is researched. I give a website to all my clients in my class. It's called evidencebasedbirth.com. Has everything on there, even a COVID tab, and it's very educational. It's all based in science, all based in numbers, and there's only 2 studies that are reputable about the placenta encapsulation, what exactly does— they went in looking— one was in 2016 and one was in 2017— and they went in looking for 17 specific hormones. They found 15.

Oh, wow. Wow.

Hey, there we have it. So we are assuming that's going to help with postpartum depression.

Hmm, interesting.

We're replacing all those hormones.

Yeah.

The other thing, uh, it helps is milk production.

Oh, interesting.

So if you get it, if you get the service and then you get grossed out by seeing them on the counter, don't take them. I mean, no one's going to force you to take them.

Take this pill right now. Right.

We also service in that same vein. We'll take one piece of the placenta and not dehydrate it, put it in high-grade alcohol for 30 days, and then deliver it to her later, and it becomes a tincture.

A what?

A tincture.

I don't know what that is.

So, it's a liquid form of medication.

Okay.

And you put it under your tongue, but you wouldn't start that process until mom is in menopause.

Interesting.

You save it until she is in menopause.

Well, how do you save that for— I mean, we're talking like 20 years maybe?

Yes, sir.

In the fridge?

Yes.

Like next to the eggs?

Well, in the back.

Oh, okay.

By the ketchup.

I have to ask, why would you take that during menopause?

Hormone replacement.

Really?

Yes.

So it'll make it what?

Less hot flashes.

Okay.

Less irritability, less pain during intercourse.

Oh, we really screwed up. We should have kept that stuff. I'm just saying.

You can have another, you know.

You can always have another baby. No, we cannot. I promise you, we cannot. You're broken.

Darn.

I have been broken.

Darn.

Yes, someone has cut me up and broken me.

So— I hear you. I've been cut myself. Yeah, I'm broken as well. But if I could, I would certainly do the placenta encapsulation. Yeah, I know this sounds kind of gross, but I mean, I'm far from a country girl, but we are in the country. Yeah, right. We're in Montgomery.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, this is what animals do. They eat the placenta.

They do. Yeah, they do. Yeah.

Why?

Obviously for reasons beyond our understanding that we are starting to now understand.

Yeah, birth is a natural process.

This is actually an interesting topic for me because I pay attention to a lot of what animals do. I'm a big animal person. I love working with animals, all these kinds of things. And one of the things— because you bring up an interesting topic, why do animals eat the placenta? The same reason I asked the question, like, why when dogs feel ill eat grass? And one of the things that's odd about grass is like an odd vitamin that's in grass, which I think is B17. And I think it's available in grass and almond seeds.

I didn't know that.

I think it's almond seeds, peach seeds, and grass. It's like the only 3 places it's available in the world.

Okay.

And so like when they feel ill, they can't get peaches and almond— and not almond seeds. What did I say?

Peach?

Peach and—

You did say almonds.

It's not almonds, it's another one. Apricot. Apricot seeds, that's what it is. Or apricot, whichever.

Apricot.

You guys are both wrong. Aren't you from Texas, dude?

No.

Okay, let's forget.

One thing I did not tell you, I homeschooled all of my kids all the way through.

There you go.

So it's apricot. Just saying. And it is Ryobi. The first vowel speaks, the second one is quiet.

There you go. So anyway, it's a rare vitamin and like that's the only time dogs will eat grass is when they feel like they have a stomachache. Right.

They don't have Pepto-Bismol. Right.

But that's what they'll go to. So anyway, and so with what you're talking about, I'm kind of curious, like there's a lot of people that talk about how the American diet has gone down in the consumption of organ meat. And I'm curious if like, you know, could I, you know, potentially just make my wife liver and onions and it have similar effects?

I think you should do a study on it.

Yeah, I should do it? Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean like— I love that answer. I love that answer. Yeah, no, that's a great answer. Because, you know, you have an opinion on it. But rather than forcing that opinion, I really like that answer.

Thank you.

I really, really like that answer.

Thank you. Yeah.

I mean, because, I mean, eating—

It's a great question.

Yeah. I mean, because eating liver is a source of iron. It's a high source of iron.

It is.

And most people don't eat it anymore.

It's true, but it's not going to have the hormones.

Right. It's not going to have the same hormones for sure. Or is it going to have your hormones? Which I think that's something that—

Correct.

I'll just be honest. I mean, it's pretty disgusting. That being said—

I know.

I'm just gonna put it out there.

No, yeah. I know.

That being said, I mean, you— I'm open to arguments that make sense, right?

Me too. Me too.

And that— whether I think it's disgusting or not, whenever you tell me that there's 15 hormones that they found in it—

And they were looking for 17.

They were looking for— yeah. That to me is something to at least consider.

Correct.

And for $250, I mean— That's nothing.

Right.

Nothing.

Right.

I mean, the medication alone that I'm going to take for something else is probably going to cost that much.

Correct.

All right.

And the tincture is cheaper than getting on hormone replacement in menopause.

So do you get both for the same price?

Yes.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

So I— all right, so I have to ask, is there anybody that consumes it in non-capsule form?

Non-processed.

Fresh?

Yes, yes, yes. So we have had several clients, you know, I mean, Houston's a melting pot, right? So when we service the Houston greater area, so we go all the way to Huntsville, Bryan-College Station, all the way into Houston. We've got— we've had several deliveries in Beaumont.

And Houston is ethnically diverse.

It is.

Extremely ethnically diverse. It is.

So we've had lots—

This is actually something that comes up quite a bit. I mean, like, Houston is considered one of the most, like, diverse cities in the world. It is.

It's a beautiful melting pot.

Yeah.

So I've had women interview with us asking about placenta encapsulation and our doula services from Russia, from China, from Peru. They want the service of the placenta encapsulation. They see our website and go, wow, you do it all. Yes, we do.

Yes, we do. And to have somebody that you trust that's with you through the whole process that's also going to do that for you.