Custom Pool Design with Caleb Shannon and J Bradley Pools

This is episode number 222 of The Homeowner Show. Well, whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is Greg Williams.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show. We're so glad that you could join us for another live episode here on The Homeowner Show in the studio. How you doing, Kev?

Oh, I'm, you know, I'm good.

You good?

I'm good. Things are, things are good. Yeah, busy, good. But it's, it's almost like it's, it's that Thanksgiving time. Yeah, and life's good. I love Thanksgiving. It's one of my favorite times of the year.

Except you don't like pumpkin because there's something genetically wrong with you.

What does that have to do with Thanksgiving whatsoever?

Because everything is pumpkin at Thanksgiving. I don't know if you just don't go outside, but like everything is pumpkin flavored right now.

I wouldn't, I wouldn't know. Yeah, I got nothing.

So, but pumpkin's delicious.

I'm okay. That's fine.

If y'all haven't been watching the show long enough, I like to point out to Kevin every so often that he's a picky guy. He doesn't think that he is. I'm not picky. See, see, he's in denial. I'm not picky.

I'm not. I'm in this Homeowner Show studio.

So I'm gonna try something different this week because we are on the cusp of doing something kind of cool. If you haven't yet, go subscribe to our YouTube page.

We're close.

We're close to a particular goal that we've been trying to hit that could really help out the show. So if you haven't yet, go over there, subscribe, hit the bell, all that kind of good. But like, also just follow the show, like the page, share it, share the feed. It's really super helpful.

It is. Yeah.

Yeah.

And we'll let you know when we hit the goal. You'll you'll probably know.

I mean, we might hit it with it just in the next few minutes. I mean, really? If you know people listen to me.

Why?

I don't know why.

I'm a persuasive dude.

Especially if you're on. I mean, if you're watching us live right now, there's no reason why you should on the YouTube switch over to YouTube if you're not already there. Some people are already watching on YouTube. Yep. And if you are, just go ahead and click subscribe and then come on back over. Hit the bell because that'll notify you whenever you've. whenever we got something new. Yeah, it's easy. Yeah, super easy.

So there's, uh, there's some, some cool stuff going on in—

in—

not cool stuff, some terrifying stuff.

That's different.

I think it's— I said cool because I think it's interesting.

Okay.

Um, but some terrifying stuff happening in real estate right now.

Okay, um, tell me.

And I, I'm— well, I want to talk about it, but I also want to let people know that we got Caleb in the studio.

Yeah, he's here.

So you feel free to chime in on this.

Okay, okay.

But you You— are you guys, are you guys both familiar with, like, Redfin and Zillow?

Yeah.

Okay.

So, like, what, what do you guys know those companies as?

Well—

This is not a trick.

I mean— No. They're primarily, like, MLS type, you know, they're, they're, they show you what's on the market.

Right.

Yeah.

And, like, most people shopping for a house, they probably have those apps on their phone.

Yep.

They have really good search features. So did you guys know that these, that they are both real estate acquisition companies.

Yeah. I did hear recently Zillow started doing some of that.

Well, yeah. They've— well, Zillow's been doing it and Redfin. Redfin has a very specific house flipping division in their company.

Yeah. I didn't— I didn't know this. You know how I knew about this?

Huh?

I knew about this because our real estate agent friend who posts— start post— Freddie.

Oh, yeah.

Who starts posting about this kinda stuff, but I didn't know about it till he started pointing it out. And when he started pointing it out, I was like, Whoa.

Yeah.

It blew my mind a little bit. Yeah.

And it's like, it's not in a good way. There's nothing, there's nothing illegal about it. I mean, like, it's just kinda like when you, when you realize what's been going on, you're like, oh, that's kinda nefarious.

It's like, it feels underhanded.

It feels underhanded. Very. So here's what's happening. So Redfin has this massive department within their company that is for real estate acquisition and property flipping. Zillow has the same thing. Back in October, Zillow went ahead and laid off at least 5% of their staff.

Yeah.

Redfin just this month announced that they're going to be laying off 13%, particularly in their property flipping division.

Okay.

And, and so people are looking at this going, okay, like, like, the— these guys have access to a lot of data when it comes to the way in which the real estate market is going.

Yeah.

And like, I'm sorry to all like my real estate agent friends and things like that, but like, it looks like it's taken— like, like they are, they are showing their hand and going like, it's not gonna be good.

Yeah, this is gonna break.

And it's not. And then like, they're looking at their projections going like, 2023 for real estate is gonna suck.

Well, and, and not only that, who did we have on recently who was going, yeah, I know a lot of real estate agents, like the number of agents—

The number of agents has gone down. Yeah, people are getting out.

They're getting out, but the number of agents that are coming in don't counterbalance that. Right. Yeah. So we're, we're in this really, really weird place. And, you know, obviously things like, like the, uh, the mortgage rates are insane. Well, they're not insane historically. They're not insane, but for recent 15 years, they're pretty insane. And so at some point something's gotta give, right?

Oh yeah.

I mean, we were, we were there with house prices. And now we're like, well, something's got to give. And now the interest rate has shown its hand and it's like, well, that's what gave, and now something else got to give, right? It just has to.

Yeah, it will. Well, and like, you're starting to see, uh, the listing price, you know, the initial listing price being way higher than what the actual closing price is, is coming in on a lot of these properties. And the ones that aren't budging on the price are the ones that have been sitting on the market for a long time. And so, like, you know, it's potentially getting into, like, a buyer's market, but it's definitely not there yet. Prices are still way too high. Interest rates are too high for it to be a buyer's market. Although I did— I had a meeting with a couple of guys that we were talking about bringing them on, doing an episode with them on the show. And this guy's with a mortgage company, and they're talking about

Uh, if you close on a house now, um, what they are willing to do is if you're in a, uh, a fixed interest rate loan and in 2 years the interest rates come down, they're willing to refinance your property for free at the new interest rate because they're, they're saying like, look, we, we want to get you in the right house, just buy the house. And, and so, like, let's just take the interest rate thing away as being— because, like, if you go— if, like, like, say, let's say you have to buy it right now at, like, 7.5%, and in a year, it's like interest rates go down to 5%. Well, that's, that's a significant drop as far as, like, what you're paying.

Yeah.

But you're gonna pay a lot in closing costs to refinance that loan. And so this company's saying, like, look, we, we recognize that, like, this is just, like, a crap hand of cards you've been dealt. So we're willing to refinance it for free down the road.

That's cool.

Yeah. I don't know if they're putting like a cap on that or what, but yeah.

Interesting.

So anyway, we've got a really cool episode tonight, and I felt it was really appropriate because of the chilly weather outside to start talking about swimming pools.

That's right. Well, the funny thing is that now is the time.

Yeah.

Now is definitely the time to start talking about it. Is—

and, and then just, just for, like, my own edification, is this, is this just the time because you can get a better deal, or is it the time because this is when typically people don't mind their yards being disrupted outside?

Well, that's— well, that, that's a good point. I mean, yeah, now is, you know, some people like to wanna have their yard pretty there. Maybe they're hosting Thanksgiving or Christmas. But, yeah, generally, this would be the less important part of the, the year for your yard. But also, if you're, if you're getting in now, um, if you're looking to buy one, now's the time because it'll be ready.

Oh yeah, when, when that time comes, it'll be ready for the heat.

Now, if you're, if you're, you know, it— April, you're, you're late. It's already— we don't have time. It's already hot.

You're just gonna get a pile of dirt in your yard for the whole swimming season.

Yeah, then you're gonna get real frustrated because Because, well, it's not done yet.

Well, and, and, and so, well, I, I guess tell everybody kinda what you do.

Yeah. So, so I'm a, I'm a, I'm a designer. Mhmm. It's technically, like, designer and sales. But really, the, the, the pools sell themselves if, if you design them correctly. Right. I, I really don't consider myself in sales whatsoever. Mhmm. I'm a pretty awful salesman. I'm, I'm really honest and kinda, like, blunt, and I'm just really bad sales, uh, but I'm pretty decent at design, I like to think. Um, so that's really what, what we focus on in our company anyways is the design of the pool, um, and kind of the art behind the whole thing.

Mm-hmm.

Um, so basically I take your, your plain backyard, um, I go into my little lab and I kind of create the, the most functional and pretty and fun thing that I can.

Mm-hmm.

And, and then kind of we work together to see if, if it's something that, that'll work for you and your family.

Yeah. So what I mean, when, when someone, you know, when they start off with the just the, the, the simple idea, I want a pool, like, what, what is, what is like the baseline conversation? Like, where do you start with a, in the conversation with somebody about how to design this pool?

Right.

Because I imagine a lot of people come in with like expectations that sometimes have to be Killed.

Yeah, absolutely.

So the, the first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask why. Like, why do we want the pool? Um, you know, do you have a 5, 7, and 9-year-old? Like, okay, that's— I'm gonna start thinking a little bit differently than if you're empty nesters and you, you've just got a lot of adult friends to entertain, right? Like, so we're getting a totally different design style Um, I'm gonna ask you, do you want it— the one of the main questions is geometric or freeform?

Okay.

Um, do you want straight lines or do you want curvy lines? Um, I, I greatly enjoy doing this straight lines.

Yeah, right.

The curvy lines, fantastic if you can make it look nice. If you have a big yard, right, dude, that's better because you tend not to be as optimal with your space. Um, but yeah, that's usually where we start is, is what's the goal of this pool? Where are we? Yeah, who are we trying to, to use this for?

What, what really drives the decision for someone between like the straight line and the curvy line pool? What, what's— what is it, like a personality?

I would love to know.

You don't know?

I would love to, honestly.

Surely it's a personality issue.

Well, I would think at some level it's a little bit of a, uh, Well, the straight lines are, I mean, you could kind of say more in style, at least right now.

Right.

Because I think a lot of times you go curvy lines and people immediately go to like a kidney bean, and a lot of people don't like that these days. But I get a lot of— I work with a lot of people from different countries. I have, you know, a lot of people move here from Europe or South America or something, and I've noticed it kind of depends on which country you're from.

Okay.

Sort of. It's been an interesting, at least what I've noticed.

So, yeah, I'm just kind of wondering if people are looking at it going, well, I grew up with a square pool. I'd really like something with some curve to it.

I don't know. I mean, yeah, there's a lot of age. I've noticed a lot of different kind of what age bracket are you in? generally anyone from like 20 to 55 wants a straight edge and a little bit older likes the curvy. Yeah, but to each their own.

Sure. Well, I mean, like, and on that subject, one of the things I've been noticing lately, and I don't know if this is something that you have, but like, I'm, you know, I'm in a lot of people's houses. I've been noticing people opting for much smaller pools. Yeah, you know, like Rather than like, like Kevin and I have a friend, they, they put one in and it's super small. It's like maybe 8 feet by like 8 feet.

Yeah, it's small.

Oh, that's really small.

You know, and but like, it's like 5 feet deep. It's got like steps down on, on the inside.

Interesting.

And then it's just a pool. They wanted a place to hang out in the water.

Yeah.

That didn't take up their whole backyard.

Yeah.

That's what they did.

Well, so And that's kind of, that's kind of how it's sort of trending. Is it, it's not as much about the pool as it is about the overall outdoor area backyard space that you have.

Yeah.

Um, cause I think like in the '80s and '90s, it was like, give me the 40-foot wide, 10-foot deep diving board and all that. Um, I feel like nowadays it's more like, Well, I'd rather have a little bit smaller pool but also a kitchen and a pergola and a fire pit.

Yep.

Um, just to, just to suit the whole— I mean, all year round. And you, you kind of get a lot more out of it that way, in my opinion.

Yeah, I think that, uh, one of the things that I'm— I've heard a lot of at least is like people going away from diving board stuff just because homeowner's insurance goes way up if you have a diving board.

I've never done a diving Really? In any of my pools, I've never done a diving board.

What about like one of those rocks that just kind of juts out a little bit? Yeah, I see a lot of those. Like, people like, oh, that's my jumping rock.

No, that's the jutting rock.

The jutting rock?

The jutting. So we will do that. I'm usually gonna need a request. I'm not usually gonna just like put that in there, put that in there, because if I put that in there, they told me, they said, hey, I love the rock. Give me the rock. We don't do a lot of—

Can't do a wrestling reference.

It's just—

no, it doesn't work. It's just the look. Um, I haven't done a lot. We really aren't doing a lot of rocks even at all.

Oh, like, like rock features? Like even like, like the, the waterfall stuff?

Yeah, so, so we're doing it, we're doing a lot of it more as a little bit more modern, not, not as much with the rocks and the, and the earthy type.

Because like for a long time, I think a lot of people were like, oh, give me the, give me the rocks, give me the slide in the rocks, right? All that kind of stuff, which I would assume that's like a super expensive like add-on.

I would guess it's not the cheapest. It's not the cheapest way to do it, that's for sure. Right.

It's better. It's better than the, you know, like the Home Depot slide that you just put into the water.

But yeah, the little tykes.

Yeah.

That you just kind of shoved it.

Exactly. Right. Right.

Gorilla glue that thing to the deck.

Are those 2x4s holding that thing?

That's where the home insurance should start kicking in.

Yeah, exactly.

Um, but, but yeah, we're doing, we're doing more like, uh, just like raised walls. Um, you know, they go straight up and, and we'll, we'll put, uh, you know, we'll have a water feature coming out of it, you know, maybe a little stainless steel trough or kind of a sunken in. You don't even see it, just the water shooting out of the wall. Um, then we'll face those with stone or something, whatever the customer wants really.

Yeah.

So do you think like those types of water features, are they, are they just aesthetic or do they actually help with the filtering process at all?

So yeah, you definitely want your water to be moving around. You don't want just completely stagnant. Um, and, and then that gives you more returns in there. So you get your water flowing more, you're getting fresh water put in more often. Um, and yeah, and it looks nice.

It does look nice. I think some people just like the sound.

Like, that's another thing.

You just get— you want to go out there, you want to sit by a pool, and there's something about a waterfall sound that's really peaceful. I just—

I want to find the guy that'll just put the water feature in for me. I don't even want the pool.

Yeah, you just got a fountain.

I just want a fountain.

Yeah, it's—

I think, I think it's just a fountain, right?

That's what I want.

Okay, I'll see if I can get you a quote.

Okay, but like, you need a grander entrance. I'm just saying.

But, well, so I, I will, I will tell this story. Like, when, when we bought this place, uh, one of, one of our relatives had a, um, what do you call it, the little Bobcat tractor thing that pushes dirt around.

A little Bobcat.

Yeah. And I was— when we bought it, I was like, man, I wanna, I wanna pond. And I knew I wanted a pond because I wanted to eventually put in fish. Well, yeah, but like I want this guy.

This guy wants a fountain.

I want a fountain. That's what I want. I want what I wanted was like a waterfall that you know like circulates the water.

Sure.

All that kind of stuff. And and so like he was going to bring it out. We're going to knock some trees down, dig a big hole, and like and for whatever reason, like every everyone here was like you can't do that. And I was like it's free. Like it's just a hole in the ground.

Right.

Let me dig it.

Yeah. Yeah.

I got I got the got vetoed, man.

Really?

Why?

Why? I don't know.

Like vetoed by who?

Everyone here. It was like everyone against me.

Who? Like like in your homeowners association? No, no, no. Or in your house?

In my house.

In my house.

They're like you can't do that. I'm like says who?

Right.

And apparently them.

Right. Because there's there's no fountain. I'm just saying.

Well, they didn't know about the fountain.

Right.

You should have told them.

They didn't have my vision.

Right. You should have said. But fountain, like, you should have used the word fountain. Yeah, they might have, they might have changed their mind. You never know. Well, well, now you know.

I don't care now. I'm just gonna go buy one in Arkansas.

Yeah, yep, yeah, that would be good. That would be a whole lot more expensive than just building a fountain, but hey.

Not, not on my, uh, my mental health bill.

No, I know that's true. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Those Bobcats are incredible machines. Amazing what they'll do.

They're insane. Yeah.

So, well, so I did eventually rent one, but not for that.

Yeah.

I was—

I had to—

I had to clear out— I had a lot of bad dirt in the barn. And so I got one of those mini Bobcats because it was only like 36 inches wide, so it'd actually go through the gates. And so I thought it was gonna be—

36 inches?

Yeah.

Wow.

It's crazy. We got— we have to use those to get into people's backyards.

It's amazing. That's why they make them, obviously.

Yeah.

But anyway, go ahead.

Well, and they're— I mean, like, they work really well. I mean, like, they can move a lot of dirt.

They still do it.

So I— it took me a lot less time than I thought it was. And so I ended up with a lot of extra time that I'd paid for.

I know where this is going.

So have I told you about this?

Yes, I think we've talked about it on the show. Well, it doesn't matter. It was like episode 4. So go ahead.

Anyway, so I got bored. So I started digging a hole. Well, back up.

When I—

He wants a fountain.

That's actually not why I dug this hole. When I bought this place, there was like this metal plate out in the pasture, and I'd gone out there and I kicked it thinking I'll just move it and it wouldn't budge. So I went out there with a shovel, wouldn't budge. I went out there with a pry bar, couldn't move it. And I was like, what is that thing? And so I was like, you know what? I've got this thing. I'm gonna go out there and dig that booger up. So I started digging it up and it just kept coming and kept coming. And, and it was the, the tracks off of a bulldozer that someone had buried in my pasture.

What?

And so I eventually got it out. It was like 3,000 pounds of like metal just buried in the pasture.

The Bobcat got it out? Yeah.

I told you. Incredible.

They're incredible. It like, it struggled, but like, I got it out of there. It took me some digging.

I mean, you did like break the vodka.

That's not how I broke it. That's not how I broke it.

Uh-oh.

But anyway, I was so proud of myself when I dug that thing up. And so like I went in the house and I was like, babe, you got to come out here and look at this thing. And I was showing it to her like I just shot a buck.

Yeah.

I was like, look at, look at what I've done.

She didn't get it.

She was like, What the hell is wrong with you? And I was like, I was like, what? And she goes, what are you gonna do with it? I was like, I don't know, look at it.

C&D scrap metal.

That's right.

Like paying $2 bills.

Yeah. And she's like, she's like, put that thing back in the ground. And I was like, all right.

Did you put it back?

Yeah, it's back. It's out there. It's part of my retirement plan. I'm waiting for the scrap metal price to really go up.

Yeah.

Yeah. You, you You're not gonna get much right now.

Well, yeah, well, and like, I need the trailer to move it too.

Oh yeah.

But anyway, when I was putting the dirt back, I— it had like a slope going down, and so I had picked the, the bucket up, and as I was going down, it flipped the thing over and threw me off. And—

Oh man.

So, and I got it back up, and then it just wouldn't start anymore. And apparently, it has, like, this kill switch in it that if it tips over, I don't know.

Yeah.

Because, like, it moves oil into this, and they don't— anyway, it's a whole thing.

Yeah.

I screwed up.

Yeah, that was a— I'm sorry, babe. Whoops.

Well, now it's kind of her fault because it was fine before.

It was fine.

Until you had to put it back in.

Maybe put it back.

Yeah. By the way, she does every once in a while pop in here, and she will—

Hey.

It's random.

Nothing that I said is untrue.

No, no. That's the problem. It's Typically me, and somehow I'm saying something about his wife that I shouldn't have said to begin with. That's the one time she turns it on. Like I said four words, and you heard all of them. Thank you.

So of course, I'm gonna I'm gonna transition this. You ready?

Okay.

I'm gonna titillate the people with the yeah with the with the transition here.

Good word.

Yeah. Um, so they're really good at digging deep holes. You can you can I mean like I think I had to go down like. 6 or 7 feet to get that thing out of the ground. Is depth a problem on these pools? Are some people— I mean, I know 10 feet is kind of like a standard depth, but are you guys able to go deeper than that? I don't know the— because I was like, man, 15 feet, that'd be kind of cool.

Yeah, I'm titillated right now. You should be.

Sorry.

Oh, my goodness. Yeah, so really most people these days are going just like 6 feet. Um, so our standard, we start usually like 3.5 on the shallow end. Yeah. Um, and depending— some, some people want a sport pool, so we go, you know, 4 or 5.

Like a slope down?

Like a—

yeah. So we have a friend who has one like that.

Like a volleyball type basketball, so it's just deeper in the middle and shallow on the sides. Um, a lot of people go 3.5 to 6. I haven't really gone— we don't usually go deeper than like 8.

Okay.

We can.

Okay. That was my next question.

But you can. It's just most people don't even really want it. Yeah.

And so the friend that I was talking about, Jared, he's been on a show before. Yeah.

Okay.

He's got one of those. I think it's 4.5, 4— he may be 4.64, but But anyway, the, the thing that he told me was— and I don't know how y'all do it— but his was calculated— like, his price was calculated by the linear foot, not by the depth. Is that accurate at all what y'all do? Because I mean, I would think, well, it's gonna be more work to do an 8-foot than a 3-foot or a 4-foot or whatever.

Yeah.

Uh, because you— first of all, you got, you got to do something with the dirt. You got to actually move the dirt. Like, to me it would be more.

But so yeah, there's a lot of different factors.

Um, I'll come move your dirt for free.

There you go. Just rent me. I'll have a blast.

Depth is— depth is a part of the price factor.

There you go. Yeah, that makes more sense to me. That doesn't make any sense.

I mean, so generally, the— a, a good way to describe just overall the size of the pool is would be the perimeter. You know, you say you got an 80 perimeter pool, let's say that's a small one.

Okay.

90 perimeter is about average.

Is that like foot?

Yeah. So, so 90 feet perimeter, that'd be a 30 by 15 by 30 by 15, like rectangle.

Right.

Okay. Um, that, that would be like 90. I'd say that's average. 100, I'd say it's pretty big. 110, that's pretty big.

Yeah.

And then like 120 and beyond, like you got yourself a, a nice pool.

Oasis.

A real big pool here.

Yeah.

Um, but then you can go the depth. So the, the thing about the depth is now We've, we've dug deeper, so it's going to take more for the dig. We got to do more work to dig.

Sure.

Then we do rebar, so now that's, that's that much more rebar that we've got to put in there as well. And we do gunite, there's that much more gunite that we've got to put in there. That's the concrete. Um, and then we do the plaster, we do all like pebble finish on our, on the plaster. So now there's all that extra plaster that you've got to do So the depth definitely, definitely affects it. It affects the internal area of the pool. And so that's gonna— that, that should— if, if you were trying to make money on your deal, you should calculate that in though.

Yeah, I would think so.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah, maybe, maybe—

Good job thinking, Kevin.

Well, I tried. Most of the time it's not good. But, um, so I— maybe there— maybe he was just saying based on what he was looking at, he could have done all of it one depth, or maybe that was his deal, was like Yeah, they'll do a certain depth for a certain price. Yeah, then you go lower, like, then it's, you know, I don't know. I— what, what I do know though is that was like 5 years ago, right? And the prices from 5 years ago to 3 years ago, 2 years ago, yeah, today are like—

they're totally—

they're crazy.

Yeah, up until about 6 feet deep, you're not gonna have much of a difference. Okay, um, maybe that was as far as like material.

Yeah.

Like, if you were like, oh, I just want it to be 4 feet deep, like, right, I get a big discount. Like, it's not gonna change that much. Like, anything under 6 feet is pretty normal. Once you go to, like, 7, 8, now you're gonna start seeing— you're gonna see more of an increase as opposed to a decrease for going shallower.

That makes sense. Part of the reason I ask is I— there's some clients that I have that have these multi-tier level pools. Have you seen these?

Yep.

You know, and so, like, I, I can look at that and go, okay, so, like, this This one's got like at least a 5-foot wall. And then at the bottom of that 5-foot wall, that pool down there goes down another 3 feet. You know, and so like we're talking about, yeah, a lot of depth that they've, you know, built structurally into this thing. And I'm like, okay, like what, how, how deep can we go?

That's a significant, you know.

Yeah.

So a lot of times on a pool like that where, where you're seeing these tiers, I would be designing that based to, to cater to the natural slope, right? So if you've got a— in your backyard, you step off your patio and that thing drops down 8 feet to the bottom, we can tier that thing easy, and we've hardly even had to dig at this point.

Um, which has to be kind of nice.

I mean, well, it's—

I mean, like I mentioned, there's, there's—

Yeah, well, it comes into a lot more rebar and a lot more gunite.

Because you got to build walls at that point.

Yeah, the dig's the easy part. Yeah, the dig is— the dig is not so hard.

And the fun part.

I'm just saying, you need a hole in your yard, right? Give me a holler.

Um, the issue with the depth comes, uh, depends on the soil. Um, so if you're, if you're out near the lake or out off on, on the river or anything like that You've got a chance for a little bit more of a sandier soil. When you're digging deeper into that, it just doesn't hold up very well. So you're trying to pour, you're trying to build your foundation on the sand, you're trying to pour that gunite, it doesn't really work so well.

I've heard a story about that once.

You may have heard that.

Okay, I don't know, I just heard it one, a few times.

Yeah, the other issue is potentially running into the water table. You hit a spring, deeper you go, better chance is you're going to hit some sort of water.

It's just cheaper to fill it at that point.

And then, then I got my water feature, right?

There you go. Get that bubbler coming up. That's hilarious.

I win either way. Right.

Could you just put a hole there? Like, just build a hole that way?

It just kind of— there you go.

What I was trying to do in the first place.

Yeah, so that's—

just put a float on that thing. That way whenever it gets to a certain spot, it just turns off, right? Put a float on it.

Yep, that's the, that's the custom ponds. That's it. That's our, that's our other division.

Uh, which by the way, um, speaking of ponds, and, and I know your parents have a pond on their, their, uh, property. Um, I have— so in Arkansas, I have some friends who have a a cabin out in, uh, Mountain Home, which is—

I know. Yeah.

And, um, or is it Mountain View?

Both of those are cities.

I know. Which one's— which one's the one?

Mountain View is the, the folk music capital.

That's, that's the one.

Okay. They're Mountain View.

Their place is out in Mountain View, and you know where that is. And they, they had a pond dug But they could not for anything keep it to hold water. And so they, they did all kinds of stuff. Apparently, like, there's some, there's some stuff you can put in the bottom of it that's supposed to help, you know, hold it. But they told— they were told that the best thing they could possibly do to get it to hold water, bring pigs in. Oh, they said pigs will just—

they roll down in the bottom and they wallow in it.

They do whatever they do.

And that is the most Arkansas solution I've ever heard.

Yeah. Well, you know what you need? Need you a few good pigs.

Need you a couple hogs.

Here we go.

Call the hogs in here.

That's right.

And this is, this is your new pool business, Caleb. You need to capture you some wild hogs. Listen, here's what we're gonna do, right? We're gonna get the hole started. We're gonna turn these pigs loose in your yard. In 3 years, right, you got yourself a hauler.

Can you just—

and just sign here?

That's right. Now this is a per pig price. So how fast do you want this done?

It's not going to take that long because really they're going to reproduce. You're going to have, you're going to have 40 pigs in the backyard before this is all done. And when the pool's done, barbecue.

I'm just saying, you're gonna have to buy some apples. That's all I'm saying.

That's awesome.

I just thought it was the most random, like, I would never have thought, like—

Only in Arkansas.

Only in Arkansas.

So here, I'll tell you guys something crazy I just learned about pigs. So if you take a farm pig and you turn him loose in the wild, he will convert into a wild boar, like a wild pig. They will grow tusks, their hair will get longer.

Yes.

If you take—

Like a potbelly?

Yes.

When in Rome, man.

If you are a wild pig and you bring them into a domesticated situation, they— their hair will get shorter.

No.

They will lose their tusks.

No.

Yes.

And grow a potbelly? Look it up. Not—

They're not ever gonna be like a potbelly pig.

Okay.

But they're going to become, because they're around other pigs like that, they're going to become like the other pigs they're around.

Wow. Read the room.

Yeah, it's crazy.

Read the room. I've never heard anything like that. I will say though that my understanding is like pigs are great pets.

They can't— well, so In my experience, if you're the owner, like, they're better than any guard dog.

Yeah, because they're mean.

They're mean.

They can be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bite your leg off. Yeah.

I've never heard such—

They're fast too.

They can be. Yeah.

That's hilarious. I've never heard of guard pigs.

Like, listen, I'd rather be bit by a dog any day of the week than I would a pig.

What?

Yeah, dude, watch Old Yeller.

Oh yeah.

Have you ever seen Old Yeller?

It's been a while.

That dog gets tore up.

I was a wee lad.

That's one of my favorite Friends episodes where Phoebe is watching— they're watching Old Yeller and she's like, oh, it's one of my favorite shows. They're like, what are you talking about? She's like, yeah, it's great. Her parents always turned it off. And then she was traumatized as an adult because they let her watch the end of it. So anyway, there you go.

Sorry. There's a comedian out there right now. He does a bit about a dog and his dad. And he talks about, he's like, yeah, my dad, he got really, really sick and he had cancer. And we found out, and about 6 months later he passed away. And he goes, the really sad part was, is after he died, my dad's— I took care of my dad's dog, and he would often go sit in my dad's chair. And about 6 months after my dad died, the, the dog passed away in the chair. And as the guy's telling the joke, the whole audience goes, aww. And he's like, forget all y'all. Y'all didn't say aww about my dad. Y'all said aww about the dog. You're horrible people.

It's true.

It's true.

Everyone listening to that story right now, even as I told it poorly, everyone was like, aww, the dog.

Yeah, I was thinking Yeah, that's funny.

That's funny. That is funny.

Yeah.

Well, okay, so, um, if— okay, if I am—

You gotta transition. You gotta titillate.

I'm— well, it's not gonna happen. I've already been titillated once.

Not so easy, is it?

Now that I've been titillated tonight, I can't be titillated again. Um, so my, my question is, if I'm— because, because this is kind of the position that I'm going to be in at some point in the near future, hopefully, is I want to buy a pool, build the pool in the backyard. Where, where do I begin? Like, that's a—

Like, as far as like where the location is?

I mean, no, no, no, no. I mean, I think I can figure out where, um, but more like what do I need to be thinking about? What, what types of things do I need to be concerned about? Should I like When people walk in and they start talking to you and you're like, man, I wish people would just know that they need to have already thought about this. What are those things? What does that look like?

Um, the, the first thing I would say absolutely is, do you have any easements or any like setbacks, any sort of that in your yard? Because I've had a couple family friends like buy their house not realize that they've got a freaking 20-foot easement. They can't build in a 25-foot yard, and it's just like, you can't even set foot. Like, this is not your yard, this is the, the power company's yard.

Wow.

Um, so that'd be the first thing I would say. Go back and, and don't buy your house if it does— if it has a super easement, right?

What we need to start with is you need to sell this place.

That's where we start.

What is the return policy? Is this like Amazon? You can just refund it to my card.

Yeah, Zillow's working on that.

Is part of that just having like a good survey of your property?

Well, so yeah, so that's the first thing. Get the survey. You gotta, you have to have the survey. Um, and a lot of HOAs won't accept the, the plot plan. Like, it has to be an actual survey.

Right.

Okay.

Um, so yeah, make sure you have the survey on deck. Um, and then really, that's, that's really like the biggest thing.

Okay. Honestly.

Um, you know, there's a couple things. Do you want geometric or do you want freeform? Um, do you want salt? Do you want chlorine?

I was gonna ask you about that.

We need to talk about that in a minute.

Keep going. So there's a couple there. That's really, really the main things.

And most people, I would assume, don't know the difference. And we've, we've had a couple of episodes with, with pool guys on it. And one of the first ones that we ever did with Jason, I think it was like episode 3. Yeah, it was so early. Um, we, we talked about like pools that have saltwater versus chlorine. And I mean, he basically— it's funny, like, I would be real interested to hear your opinion because he basically said, look, saltwater is great, but it's going to cost more because the pump isn't going to last as long. That's basically what he said. You're gonna have to replace the pump more often, those sorts of things, but you have less chemicals and less issues with

that. So there's like this weird trade-off, but a lot of people go the salt route because they think it's going to be cheaper because you don't have to pay for the chemicals all as as much, but then they're like, oh, here's a $7,000 pump you got to replace, and they weren't planning on that. And so it's like, I don't know. So I'm sorry.

I think a lot of people that are even trying to make that decision are making— whether they are or they aren't, think they're making a health decision.

Oh, okay.

Because chlorine, it's a harsh chemical. If you have blonde hair, it's going to turn to green.

That ain't right. Sure.

know, so I mean, I'd imagine that's something that's going on a lot of people's minds.

So, so yeah, to do the salt chlorine debate, um, I always say that I want my friend to have a saltwater pool, um, because I enjoy like the little taste and like the way the water feels and swimming around saltwater pool. Um, but I don't, I don't think I would do a saltwater pool. Um, but there, I mean, it, there is, there's a setback, there's a trade-off, a give and take. Um, with the salt, you are gonna have less chemicals, um, but it is gonna be harsher on your plumbing. Um, but not just that, it's gonna be harsher on your furniture and your deck and your toys and everything, because that salt, that salt's more corrosive. You get out and you're dripping salt water all over your chair, and now it's all rusty and it's all corroded and

this and that. Um, you are going to have more kind of deposits, sediment on your water line.

Sure.

Um, if you don't keep that thing scrubbed, if you don't have somebody scrubbing that like, you know, once a week, like you're getting deposits on that. Um, the thing with chlorine though, um, I'm kind of a health nut. My wife, we're super organic and all that sort of stuff, so I don't want chlorine all over the place either.

Yeah.

Um, The thing now is, um, they have the UV and ozone filters. Um, and so really what that does is it uses UV light and ozone, O3, 3 oxygen molecules, um, as an antibacterial, antimicrobial of all sorts really, um, before— so you, so you go from the, from the pump and you go to the UV and the ozone and then you go to the chlorine and then we go out to the pool. So that's kind of the order of things.

Okay.

The idea there is that the water is going to be fully sanitized at that point. Like, you're going to have— it's going to be completely clean.

Yeah.

So you don't have to use that much chlorine anymore.

Oh, okay.

Interesting.

Do you have like any numbers or ideas how much reduction in use?

It's about half.

Oh, really? Yeah.

Okay.

So you almost effectively— because in a saltwater pool there's still chlorine in it.

Sure.

It's just not very much.

Right.

And so essentially we've achieved that without salt. Salt. Yeah. Now there definitely— there is still more chlorine in it than there would be in a saltwater pool, but we're not going to have green hair and red eyes anymore. You're not going to have a smell, and you also don't have to worry about the rust and the the corrosion.

Yeah.

Um, and up front it's the exact same cost. So if you do the chlorine with the UV and the ozone filter, it ends up being, at least at our company, the exact same cost as if you just did a salt filter.

Okay.

Um, and the maintenance on that is not anything. I mean, you got to change the UV bulb like every 2 or 3 years and it's like $75. So it's not a big deal.

So where does the ozone come from?

The sun.

That's a good question.

That's a good question.

They bottled the sun.

Well, like, in our industry, there's machines that you can use that actually produce ozone. But I always look at that and go, is it like in a canister? Where is it coming from? I'm asking because I literally don't know how it works.

I don't either. I would imagine it's a it's part of that, the filter and the pump, and there's some chemistry in there that it produces the 3rd oxygen molecule. I honestly don't know. I'm a designer.

Yeah, no, we've looked at it for our business because there's, I mean, ozone can be very dangerous to be exposed to.

Yeah, it's like one of the air pollutants that they measure Yep. As far as air pollution.

So it's— I mean, and so you can, you can use it for lots of different stuff.

Yeah.

It's just not good for you to be exposed to it.

Yeah.

I mean, directly.

Yeah.

No, but anyway, I mean, I, I don't have any more questions.

Do you feel prepared?

Yeah, I got everything answered.

Are you ready? You ready to buy a pool?

No, I don't have any money, but like You, you convinced me that I— I mean, I don't know, like, it's one of those things where, where we live, I mean, it's so hot in the summer. And when I say, when I say the summer, I mean like 8 months out of the year.

Yeah.

Like, literally, we were swimming in our pool. We've got an above-ground— that probably didn't make any sense when I first said it. We've got a very large above-ground pool. But we were swimming in it till like beginning of October.

Yep.

And, and, and we'll probably be swimming in it, I don't know, like April, you know? Like, I mean, it's just the way it goes. I mean, Craig has a, a pool, um, and he's— his is heated, so like he can be in it all the time, which is good that it's heated because it's under a roof. And because it's under a roof, it's cold otherwise. Even in the summer, it's cold.

Oh yeah, my pool, my pool Easily be 65 degrees in the middle of summer.

That's incredible.

Like, if I, if I don't heat it up, like—

That's awesome.

That's nice. It never— I mean, it's freezing.

Well, it's 102.

Well, like, my kids have gotten used to it. Like, they're, like, they're—

I don't know how they do it.

They're very cold tolerant, but like, they'll get out and they're blue.

Yeah, my son will come over and swim and he's like, dude, you gotta sit out and warm up because you're blue.

Yeah, you're blue.

But, but yeah, I mean, Well, whenever it gets no sun at all, yeah, then it has no sanitation. Oh, yeah, I'm just, I'm just saying that. I don't know what I'm talking about.

Well, no, like, like with ours, I know, like for ours, we don't, we don't have to put as much chlorine in ours. And mostly that's because it has no UV exposure, right? Yeah, there's nothing breaking it down. Yes, that's really why you have to replace it and replenish it is because The UV light breaks pretty much everything down.

Yeah. You don't have to put any stabilizer in there or anything like that, I would assume.

Yeah. You're not getting as many pollutants into it either.

Yeah. No leaves. I mean, none of that kind of— I mean, like, there's the occasional lizard falls in, but other than that, that's just a game.

Yeah. Is he going to— is he going to— yeah, he did it.

That's Godzilla.

That's right. But no, I mean, I think that it's, it's one of those things that so many people in Houston have pools, and it's not just because it's a luxury, it's kind of— it's almost like a necessity. Like, I need something.

Yeah.

To just— if I want to be outside, literally, if I want to be outside, I have to be something to be— I have to have something to be in.

Yeah.

Because it's otherwise, it's just miserable to be outside. And so I think it's one of the things that attracts a lot of people to HOAs that have Pools, and I don't have to worry about it. Um, but man, there's nothing like walking outside and just getting in the pool and then walking back inside. There's nothing like it.

Yeah, you got done mowing the yard or something, just hop in.

I cannot tell you how many times I did that. Like, yeah, I was so happy. It's the first time in my life I've ever had a pool in my backyard. And even though it was, you know, above-ground pool, like, it was pretty deep still.

Still water.

It was like 52 inches or something.

It's pretty deep.

Yeah, it's pretty deep. 22 feet. It's a big pool. That's a big— It's a big— it's like 14,000 gallons. So I mean, it's a pretty big pool.

Wow.

Yeah, that's, that's a lot. Yeah, it is.

That's like as much as a regular pool.

I know, it's huge. Um, but anyway, that being said, like, I, I am— I'm very confident that whenever I do get a, get a pool, I'm gonna pay someone to take care of it. Yeah, because I do not enjoy taking care of the pool. That is It's just a lot of work. Yeah, that's, uh, I don't have time for it.

It's pretty common to have— I— very few— I, I don't know the percentage of my customers, but I think it's probably pretty few that are doing it all themselves.

I mean, it's a— I mean, it literally— just because I've been taking care of the ones we got, and I mean, pretty much once or twice a week you got to go get the water tested if you don't have a test kit at home. And then it's like, well, I don't know what to do with all this. So then they gotta tell me I gotta buy all the chemicals, and then I can figure out, okay, how much of this, and it's all right. And I gotta test it again.

It's just like—

Yeah. And then I gotta clean it out. There's, there's leaves, there's a, you know, just the buildup that gets in there. There's all this kind of stuff, and I'm just like, man, it's a lot of work. And I think that's one of the things that, that people don't always understand. Like, oh, I want to buy a pool, I want to put a pool in. They don't realize, like, Once you buy the expensive pool, then you got to maintain the expensive pool. And it's a— it— that's why it's a luxury.

Yeah, that's— I think, yeah, it's like, it's like getting a pet.

It is.

It's like, are you gonna, are you gonna walk it? You're gonna feed it? Yeah, it's, it's— but this one's a science project, trying to figure out the, the getting the chemicals right. And if, I mean, if you don't get the chemicals right, now we've got a green pool and you got your waterline tiles got all kinds of Deposits on it and all that sort of stuff.

It happened to us. We wound up, uh, with our pool being green, but it wasn't like— what was weird about it is it, it wasn't algae that was built up. It was settling to the bottom, but our, our vacuum, our robot vacuum, wasn't picking it up because the particles were too small. So we tried to counterbalance it with some stuff, and I wound up overchlorinating accidentally. And by doing so, I couldn't do anything to get it down. And so I had to drain like half the pool.

Geez.

Which, you know, we're on a well, wasn't that big of a deal. Like, I just put the water hose back in. But, um, but for a lot of people, I mean, that's— yeah, it's frustrating if nothing else.

Absolutely. Like, yeah, you definitely, um, we, we offer, we offer the service afterwards.

Okay.

To, to keep to keep it in, to keep it in check and like that. Because I mean, if I, if I'm not taking care of mine, like, it's just not gonna happen. I, I could, I could intend to, and it's still not gonna happen.

Well, because there's, there's all kinds of things that happen, right? Like, you got off work late, or, you know, something happened, or I got a business trip, or I want to go on vacation.

Yeah.

Or whatever, the football game's on.

Like, yeah, anything but this.

Anything but that. And it's a chore. It's not just a chore. It is like a nuisance whenever it comes to that.

Yeah, it's not one of those that you can just like, you can do it for 5 minutes and then come back to it tomorrow. Like, no, once you get into it, you got to—

Got to finish. You got to finish. Yeah. And I'm looking at mine right now and I'm going, it is what it is.

I was looking at it today too.

I was like, oh, I know I got to go work on it a while.

Yeah.

Mainly it's just there's leaves in the entire thing.

So which— okay, so I actually, I have a bone to pick with you design guys. So I, I grew up in Central Florida.

Okay.

And every pool that I— not every pool, that's oversimplification. Most of the pools that I encountered in Central Florida had screen covers.

Like over the top?

Yeah, the whole thing. Yeah, the sides, the top. But it was just screened and it was like a metal frame, but then there was screen and it would keep leaves Oh, you mean like the whole backyard? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a big Florida thing.

It is.

Yeah.

And like, when I moved down here, everyone complains about, I gotta clean the pool because there's so many pine needles. And I'm like, well, just put a freaking screen over that. I've seen a couple of them here.

Yeah, I almost did one.

Did you?

I was— we didn't do it. No. But I almost did a pool for a guy who was doing the one.

He wanted one like that?

Yeah.

Okay. And I'm just curious, like, why, why is that not a thing? Here.

I think they're just expensive.

Yeah.

I don't, I don't know because we got mosquitoes too.

Exactly.

Yeah.

It keeps, keeps mosquitoes out.

I mean, it'd be nice. I don't know. I guess it's just not a thing.

And it's not like new technology. I mean, I'm talking like back in like the '80s, man. I was like—

It's like an aluminum frame with just a net.

That's it.

Yeah.

So there's actually, there is a house on 105 not far from here that has one.

Really?

Yeah. It's, so sorry if you're not from here. Like, but if you, if you go past the H-E-B on 336, on the right, there's one that has a screen.

Interesting.

Yeah, I think I've seen that.

I thought it was a baseball, like hitting.

Well, I think, I think if most people saw that, they would probably think, oh, that's like a batting cage or something, because there's a lot of people that have those. Sure. It's a different kind of netting for sure. It's, I mean, it almost looks, it's like the same kind of screening you would put on a back porch to close it in.

Yeah.

So I was talking to someone just today who's, who's from Florida, and they were talking about this very thing. And he has a relative that builds those things and, and installs them. But his— there's only— there's very few people that are doing this on the inside of his.

Mhm.

Um, you can make them to where— and I don't think this is totally uncommon— to where the looking Outside in, you can't see in.

Oh, okay.

But looking from the inside out, you can see out.

Um, a two-way screen.

Two-way. Yeah.

You have naughty pool time, right?

Um, which is super awkward because you think everybody's watching. Yeah. Um, but he said that what, what's amazing about this, this specific—

ballsy.

Yeah, it is. Totally, totally. Let's test this, right? He said that the inside, he's designing like whatever you want it to look like. Like it's an oasis or a beach or like it's art on the inside.

That's crazy.

And he said it's really, really unique because nobody's really— there's only like 2 or 3 people in the United States, from what I can understand, that are actually manufacturing these that way.

That's cool.

Yeah, it is super cool. And part of me was like, well, there's not that many people that are actually building those screens anyway, or at least putting them up. Not here in Texas, at least. Yeah.

But I mean, if you walked into somebody's backyard and saw that, that would be pretty cool. I mean, you've never seen that before.

No. That's totally unique.

Yeah.

And it's a lot of bang for your buck because I imagine it's not much more expensive than the regular screens.

I wouldn't think so. Now, the two-way thing, I mean, I don't know. I mean, it reminds me of cars that are wrapped from the outside. You can't really see in, but from the inside you can see out. That's what it reminds me of.

Which is illegal now in the front seat.

Oh, yeah, it is. Well, it's been illegal for a long time. You can't tint your front 2 windows like a certain amount.

You can tint the back ones still, I think.

Yeah, you can black them out. Yeah, but anyway.

All right, I want to, I want to know the craziest pool you've done so far.

Oh, or most extravagant. Sure, is that what you mean?

Yeah, we can file that under the same category.

Why not?

Yeah, I've done a couple real crazy ones that, that didn't go through.

Okay. Oh man, bummer.

But yeah, I mean, I've done a couple crazy ones. I'm doing one right now. We literally just dug it yesterday.

Oh, okay.

That was— it was the most, the most extravagant, or like most expensive just pool that I had done. They didn't do a, you know, no covered structure, no fire pit or, or kitchen or anything like that. Just the pool was— it was— this was the most extravagant one. I mean, they've got, you know, they got the infinity edge spa all the way around, spills over into a little basin. The basin's got lights in it. They've got 3 bubblers, water bowls coming out.

What's, what's a bubbler? I just, I don't know.

These are the fountains. These are the fountains you're looking for.

Okay.

Alright.

I need to know this then.

These are those, the bubbly, you know, like, I make you think of the White House, sort of the little just bubblers bubbling.

Okay.

In front.

Yeah. Then, you know, then it's got, it's got 2 bowls. full of water that spill over in, um, 2 troughs on each side, a real big waterfall in the middle with these, all these raised walls coming out of it. Um, and then they've got in there, they've got the in-floor cleaning system, which is something I've, I've been meaning to talk about.

Okay.

It's got these, uh, it's got jets. Uh, we send out, we send out the plans to the, the engineers at these companies and they, uh, they'll, they'll determine exactly where these jets need to go, and they place them in the floor of the pool. Um, and then we've got a separate pump that runs to them, and they're, they're rigged up so that they'll, they'll, they'll come up and they'll spray water, and it'll spray the debris into the line of sight of the next jet. It'll shoot up, spray water, and it—

Wow.

And they just shoot up and they spray all the water into the drain and it just essentially is cleaning your pool for you at all times.

That's cool.

That's amazing.

Yeah, so I mean, it's as maintenance-free as you can get. You still got to pay somebody to come take care of it.

Yeah, sure.

But it's pretty much taking a load off them for sure. Yeah, so, so, so off the top of my head, that's the craziest one. But I've had a couple that were like, man, I hope they buy this because it's gonna be like— yeah, where it was, you know, just the pool itself Gigantic. Yeah, fire, fire pit sunken into like the middle of the pool.

Oh, that's cool.

And then the pool spills over into a basin. Down in that basin you've got bar stools with a kitchen that comes up to that basin. So you can be— so you've got a covered kitchen out there, and then there's a big bar, and you can be in the pool or you can be in the outdoor kitchen area, kinda eating together.

Yeah.

Coming off of that spillover with the fire pit in the pool, spa, you know, fountains, whole 9 yards.

Geez. I— we, we, we were looking at, like, crazy Airbnbs in Texas one day. And, like, there, there's a couple that have, like, pools that are, like, half an acre.

Yeah.

Like, they're, they're so massive. They— you could put— I I mean, I think it said this one said you— it, it would easily accommodate 100 people in the pool.

Jeez.

And but now who knows how much that thing cost to just build, let alone take care of on a daily basis, you know?

Well, Airbnb's got a whole section of houses, like they've got a whole pool section.

Really? Okay.

Like you can choose to go to an Airbnb that just like because it has a sick pool.

Oh, nice.

So that's actually— I've, I've done a pool for somebody who was like, yeah, we're just— this is just our Airbnb house and we wanted it to have a pool because people want that. You can charge a lot more and it flies off the— it's always booked.

Yeah, yeah.

So that, that's actually a whole like category on Airbnb now.

Doesn't surprise me.

So do you guys know that most, uh, like professional surfers in the world come to Texas to train out in Austin? Waco.

Or Waco.

Oh yeah, yeah, it's like one of the biggest wave pools in the world.

Yeah, like, and it's like consistent, like strong trough waves and crazy. Yeah, so it's— I forget the name of the place, but yeah, it's a massive pool.

Yeah, I don't— I can't imagine. I went to, I went to, uh, where did we go? We went to Splashtown. Yeah, yeah, this past summer. And just looking at it from like a pool builder perspective, I was like Oh my gosh, I don't even want to look. I don't know. Yeah, well, we just go down the slide.

We went to Kalahari, uh, this last summer.

I heard about that.

Like, I mean, obviously different with the slides and all that kind of stuff, but you, you look at things like a wave pool, these kiddie areas, and then like they've got this one huge massive area that's just, uh, it's got basketball goals all in it. Um, and the, the whole thing, like, when you think about it from an operational standpoint You go, man, they've, they've probably got a team of who knows how many that all they do is maintenance this thing. Yeah. Like, and, and not just—

Stresses me out.

Yeah.

I don't wanna think about—

And, and I'm just thinking about like the, the ingenuity that goes into a water park. Like, let alone what— that's a water park. It's what it is. But like some of these places like Hurricane Harbor and, and some of these places that are just water parks, I'm like, holy cow.

Like, Well, yeah, but like, the, the difference between like Hurricane Harbor, Splash Town, whatever it's called, and then like Kalahari and Great Wolf Lodge— like Kalahari and Great Wolf Lodge, those are all interconnected.

Yeah.

Like swimming pools, basically.

Oh, yeah.

Like, it's like one giant pool.

Sure.

But like, you know, Hurricane Harbor, like, there's that slide over there.

Yeah.

That's its own pool.

And then there's the wave pool over there, and that's its own system. And so like, that one can get shut down.

Sure.

But one of those places, if something goes wrong, it's all connected in there. Yeah.

What a nightmare.

Yeah.

I cannot imagine. I'm not that good of a designer. I couldn't do it.

I couldn't do it. Yeah, it's a marvel, really, whenever you start thinking about all that entails.

Is there a feature on a pool that you really want to include that you haven't had the chance to yet? Like on a design?

Hmm, that's a good question. Um, I've, I've designed—

You've designed some stuff that just hasn't been done?

Yeah, I've never gotten to actually— I've designed pretty much everything I want, but I haven't gotten to build, right, everything yet. Um, I think basically that one that I was talking about, the fire pit. I mean, I have, I've put a fire pit sunken in like next to it, but I haven't put one like in. Yeah, yeah. Um, I'd also would like to do a, uh, like a pergola, like a real big pergola that's kind of got the angle, got the— and the footers like 10 feet deep so it doesn't have to have a front post.

Okay, yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, oh yeah, it's cantilevered.

Yeah, cantilevered. I want to do like a real big cantilevered But look at you with the vocabulary.

Hey, look, I might be titillated, but I'm still— I still know the word cantilever.

Yes, cantilever.

Yeah, I wasn't so titillated I couldn't do the vocab section on the SATs, right?

Yeah, some of you think I'm just stupid, and well, well, anyway, what were we talking about? Cantilever. Cantilever. Yeah, that's right. That would be cool. Like, I think that, um, Like, to me, there's really no end to what you could do. It's just a matter of, do the parts exist, or could someone build it? You know, like, I, I think that it's amazing to see some of these things. And, um, it's interesting, I think, especially with, with COVID one of the things that, that we learned— we learned a lot— but one of the things we learned was that there's something about being out and with your family and having a place to have people and you're not

just by yourself all the time. And so having an— a place outside that you can be, that to me, that's probably where these outdoor kitchens and the fire pits and the, you know, just having a place to be outside. And honestly, it's one of the reasons we want to have— buy some land. And, you know, why people buy land is they just want to be out.

Yeah.

A little bit more and not feel like They can't dig their own pond.

Yes.

Doesn't matter how much land you have if you got a family that won't let you dig one. I, I don't know. I just think it's, I, it's a, it's a really, really cool thing. And I, I mean, I'm curious how many people, like, when they're buying houses right now, they specifically are like, I do want that. If it doesn't have that, I don't wanna build it. You know? Like, and, and it's one of those things where I wonder, like, At what point does a, does a homeowner go, look, I'm gonna build an outdoor kitchen because I know it's gonna sell my house, you know, whatever. You're not— you're never gonna get your money back on that.

Yeah.

It's not gonna be cost effective, although it make your sale go faster maybe. I don't know.

Yeah. So that's on to, to that point, usually from a real estate standpoint, you really only get about 5 to 7% value increase. Which I, I would, I would be tempted to argue that if, if you built something incredible.

Oh, for sure. Yeah.

You might get a little bit more return on that. Like, but it does sell.

Yeah.

The swimming pool that you put on a 3/2 home, I mean, typically a 3/2 home doesn't have, I mean, we're talking like maybe a 15,000 square foot lot. I mean, you're not gonna be able to put that great, that big of a pool.

Oh, yeah.

Right. But like, when you start talking about a house that's, you know, a 5,000, 6,000 square foot home that's, you know, like sitting on half an acre.

Yeah.

I've seen these, I've seen these houses and like the pool that they put in some of these.

They're incredible.

Yeah, and like we're talking about like caves.

Yeah.

And, you know, sunken fire pit, like the whole thing. Like that adds value to that house.

Oh yeah.

You put that pool on that 3/2, like it's just not going to do that much for it. Well, like when it adds to the aesthetic of the home.

Yeah.

Like you go from like a, you know, like, well, nowadays it was— it's like a, a million-dollar home to like a million and a half, right?

Yeah, real quick, you've got to do a good job with it. Um, and, and we, we usually kind of— the rule of thumb is like you kind of want to shoot for around 20% of the home value for the pool.

So, which is a lot from— I mean, like that. Yeah, I mean, that— yeah, I mean, I, I agree with you.

Like, if you've got a million-dollar home Like you should be putting around a $200,000 pool.

Yeah.

Um, anything less than that might not do your home justice.

Right. That's interesting. I never thought about that.

Yeah, I mean, it's not, it's not a, it's not a hard number, but it's a rule of thumb. It'll get you kind of in there in the right area.

Okay, have you ever done like a swim-in swim-out type of pool? Because that would be sweet.

What do you mean?

Like a, like, oh, I'm outside, now I'm inside.

Oh, okay.

You know?

Yeah, I haven't had the, uh, the architectural freedom.

Because you—

because really, I can tell you why you don't want to do that. Well, I've had to fix that problem for somebody.

I'm sure there's so many reasons, but I'm— that almost seems like it's got to be built when the house is built.

Yeah. So yeah, for sure, that, that does happen a lot of times unless you're doing like an addition.

Sure.

If you've got like a real big custom and, and we've— we're out ahead of it and you understand like that when they're pouring the foundation for the house is we're gonna just do the gunite and all of that at the same time. Um, because if you, if you do something like that, you, you risk, um, you risk messing up the foundation.

Sure.

Digging that close to it. Um, we don't— you really don't want to go more than like 5 feet from the foundation. You can go— I've gone closer than that. I've gone like 3 feet before. Um.

Pretty small backyard, I'd imagine.

Yeah, that's only by necessity.

Yeah.

When you got an easement, a fence, Right, getting butt up against it.

Yeah, you know, we actually had, um, we had a friend growing up that had an indoor pool, and I was like, dude, that's crazy. You're— there's something nutty about your family. Like, what do you— what do you do? They were farmers. I mean, everybody where I grew up was farmers.

They were sick of being outside.

Exactly. But I mean, I've even seen pools that are like in the middle of a house, like some, some crazy stuff. Like, yeah, built your pool in the like It's a—

it'd be cool if, like, in a courtyard.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's exactly kinda what it was. But it was, but it was, like, in a, in a glass ceiling area. It was, it was kind of this— it was indoor, completely, but still had the light from, you know, outside because it was glass roof and all that kinda stuff. It was just really, really interesting.

Yeah. That just feels— the first thing that I think when about that is just humidity.

Yeah. Oh, that's the problem.

Like a steam room.

Yeah.

I re— that's exactly what I remember about that pool. that my friend had growing up.

I was like, you walk into it and it's like, oh yeah, it's not really refreshing.

Which is actually one of the things that whenever I was at Kalahari that, uh, I was shocked about is it was— it did not feel that way.

Really?

Like this massive indoor water park and it does not feel humid.