Cool Dude! – Craig bought a Swamp Cooler

This is episode number 148 of The Homeowner Show. Whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hacken, and here with me is Craig Williams.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show. We're glad that you could join us for another live episode from The Homeowner Show studios. How you doing, Kev?

I'm tired, man.

You tired?

I am. I am. It's funny because like I even woke up this morning and my wife was like, well, you've been sleeping a lot. And I'm like, yeah, because I'm in my own bed finally.

Yeah.

After a week.

Playing man of the mountain. Yeah.

Yeah. It was interesting because so I just got off of a Trek trip. backpacking in the wilderness up in New Mexico, which was awesome. Except that it just decided to rain.

Oh, the whole time?

And rain and rain. And—

Did you get any fun rashes? No.

So that would have been a good story.

Okay.

But no, I mean, actually, everything was fine. It was just that we, we got wet, a lot of wet. And whenever you're backpacking out in the wilderness, There's only so much you can do. And we had a lot of river crossings and those sorts of things. And when we got up there, we were dry. And it was kind of one of those deals is like, if we don't leave now, like the way the river is rising, we might not make it back down. So yeah, that was interesting. We had a really, really good trip though.

So you could have had an even better story.

Oh, it would have been a lot better actually if we would actually stayed up on the mountain. Um, but it was fine. It was good. But you're sleeping on the ground or in a random bunk bed from time to time. And, um, man, sometimes it's just really nice to be home.

Oh yeah.

And in your bed.

There is nothing like sleeping in your own bed. No, unless your bed sucks.

Yeah.

In which case, it doesn't matter.

No.

So, no, sleep on a bale of hay and you might be better off.

But thankfully, um, our bed, it's awesome, and it was nice to not sleep alone. So anyway, uh, but, but other than that, man, things are good. How about you?

Uh, just good.

I mean, good.

Yeah, I mean, we're We're fighting through the rain.

Mm-hmm.

And, you know, trying to get work done. Um, but it's, it's been kind of a weird, wet summer.

Yeah, it has.

So I don't know what to do with that.

Yeah. So, uh, the first summer that I moved here, which was 2017, it was super wet that summer as well.

Oh, really?

Yeah. I just, I don't know why I remember that. Um, maybe because it was the first summer that I was here, but that was also the year that Harvey came. So let's make sure that doesn't happen.

Well, yeah. So yeah. And like typically that, that happens in like September. Yeah. You know, when we start bringing on the hurricane season, I know technically it's hurricane season right now, but technically, um, we haven't really had, I know there's been some tropical storms and some different things like that, but like we haven't had anything even remotely close to what we had that year.

Yeah, I'll put it this way. I think that my sprinklers in my irrigation system at my house have gone off one time this year.

One time?

Like since, since May, I think they've gone off one time.

That's crazy.

Yeah, which is really, really great with the Rachio system. We've talked about it before, right? It's linked into The weather system, all that kind of stuff. It knows how much rain is coming and how much there has been, and it only waters whenever it needs to. And my grass is so thick that I have to cut it twice, basically, in, in, in a week's time.

That's crazy.

In one week, I either have to mow it twice or I'm gonna have to like cut it down and then mow back over it a second time.

Yeah. So.

It's crazy.

Which, I mean, like you and I were talking a little bit before the show, like next week we're going to be re-reviewing Ryobi's 40-volt system, right? Because we have that now. Part of the reason we got that is I'm not just taking care of my yard. My folks got the lake cabin down the road. So the good son has to go down and mow it every week.

Of course.

Which mowing on lakefront is a whole new experience for me.

Oh, yeah.

I took the zero-turn down and I was coming up against the bulkhead and I was like, I might fall in the lake and this, this could be bad. Like, that would be bad. I'm used to going real fast because I don't really have any boundaries or, you know, things holding me in.

Sure.

But I came up and I was like, how close can I get to the edge? And I wasn't real comfortable with it.

No, that does not sound comforting.

No. Well, especially when you're talking about potentially dumping a $3,000 zero mower in the lake and not getting it back.

No.

So I wasn't too excited about doing that. So I kept my distance, which meant I had to do a little bit more trimming.

Yeah, closer to the bulkhead.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's one of those deals where it's like, honey, I told you I wanted one of those battery-powered zero turns.

That's right.

Just didn't want it to happen this way.

Yeah.

That reminds me, so on our trip, Coming home, we stopped off at a place called the Blue Hole. Have you heard of the Blue Hole?

I mean, I've heard those words, just not put together like that and associated with a place. Yeah.

So, uh, have you heard of Jacob's Well in Central Texas?

Yes.

Okay, so it's a similar phenomenon to Jacob's Well. It's in Santa Rosa, New Mexico, and basically it's just this massive hole It's like, uh, something like 30 feet— no, more than that, uh, more like 60 feet in diameter, but it's about 80 feet deep, and it is a constant 61 degrees.

Ooh.

And it's just a random place, and, um, you go and you just jump off into it and dive or whatever you want to do. Like, there was actually a couple of divers there, which was fortunate.

Like scuba divers?

Yes.

Okay.

In wetsuits, because it's cold. 61-degree water, it's cold.

Yeah.

And I jumped off the 3rd or 4th time, and there went my Apple Watch.

Ooh.

Yeah. It sunk? Yeah.

So you got a new one now?

No.

I see something on your wrist there.

I do have an Apple Watch on, but that's the text I got back from my wife. She was like, I know you've been wanting a new Apple Watch. That's not the way I wanted it to happen. Thankfully, one of the scuba divers went down and got it for me.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

And it's fine?

Yeah.

That's crazy.

Perfectly fine.

Testament to the watch.

That's exactly right. I think he said he came back up and the official depth was at 64.6 feet at the time. So it can be up to 81 feet deep, I think. But 64.6 feet and my Apple Watch was still functioning.

That's crazy.

So yeah, and it was probably down there for 20 minutes before he got to it. So yeah, pretty awesome.

Well, I like, my wife always fusses at me about mine and I've got one that's a little bit newer than yours. Yeah. I take it out on the lake. I've gone, I mean, like I never take it off unless I absolutely have to. And I've never had a problem. Right.

So it obviously is gonna be fine. I think it was just that this, um, this is the standard band, right? And the clasp on it just came off whenever I hit the water.

So is it like the little hole with the metal peg?

Uh-huh.

I think that that's exactly what mine does. Does it not tuck back in? It does.

Yeah, exactly like yours.

Huh.

Um, but For whatever reason, it decided to just come off. So there it went. But thankfully there were divers.

Well, yeah, really. I mean, like, because you don't need to be diving down like 60 feet.

Well, you can't.

You can't.

No, no, no. I mean, like, the guy had to go down, pressurize, go the rest of the way, then come up and depressurize. And he was in there for like maybe, maybe 10 minutes. But I mean, he found it pretty quickly. Um, crazy.

Would you make it bing underwater or something?

No, no, it just, you know, I mean, it's— the water is perfectly clear, man.

Oh, that's cool.

It's perfectly clear. It's this perfect blue color. It's gorgeous.

That's awesome.

Yeah. Anyway, crazy stuff.

I mean, like, was it as cold as it sounds?

Yes, yes, yes. Like, like when I jumped in the first time You have to swim across that 60 feet once you, you know, that diameter of that, of that place to the edge to be able to get out. I got out, walked back up to the, to the rock to jump again, and I felt like I had run about 400 yards.

Oh gosh.

Like it was just, it felt like someone just punched you right in the chest.

I don't think people realize how many calories you can burn by jumping in cold water.

Sure.

I mean, like, it takes a lot of energy from your body to respond to that cold and then continue to keep your body up to temp.

Yeah, my heart was racing.

Yeah.

And like, I'll put it this way. Um, you know how whenever you get out of a pool or something and you're like cold just because the water— no, I felt really warm when I got out. Super warm. Because your body was so much warmer out of the water than it was in the water.

Right.

I mean, it was absolutely insane.

This is the experience in my pool pretty much every week.

Your pool is super cold.

Yes.

But it never sees sun.

Right.

So it doesn't really heat up too much.

Yeah, we're working on that.

Okay.

Yeah.

Cool.

Might be getting a heater.

Well, speaking of cool and your pool area—

Look at your transition.

How do you like that transition? We're going to be talking about a fun new little device that you've purchased.

Yeah. So we test drove a swamp cooler.

Okay.

So are you familiar with that term?

Well, okay. So I'm familiar with the term because I know that a lot of old homes had swamp coolers. And I remember being in a really old school once, and instead of having like central air conditioning, and they didn't even have one of those like window units, they had a swamp cooler. They were super loud and like they dripped everywhere, that kind of thing.

Right.

Um, but that's about all I know about them, and I know nothing else. But what I, what I'm pretty sure, and I know you're going to correct me on all this, is that it's It's a pretty old technology, but it just works.

Uh, yeah, I, I mean, I, I assume it's a pretty old technology, but it seems like they've made a resurgence.

Okay.

In, in recent years. Okay. Um, because I don't remember seeing them for sale as much in some of the big box stores as they are now. And it seems like now there's multiple models.

Okay.

So, and what, and different, like, like this one is the Hessaire. And so I actually got the smallest one because like the next, well, we'll get into some of this, but the next step up was significantly more expensive than the one that I picked up because I just wanted to, I wanted to test drive the technology.

Okay.

I wanted to see if it would actually have any practical application around the property. before I invested in a bigger one.

Okay, so let's talk about the one you got.

Right.

So that people are aware of what that size is. Right.

So this, this is the 2-speed portable evaporative cooler from Hessaire. It's a 1,300 CFM. Don't ask me what CFM stands for. I'm sure somebody else there knows. But it covers 500 square feet.

Yeah.

So it should significantly lower the temperature over 500 square feet.

feet.

Um, and, and why that's important is because this is an indoor-outdoor unit.

Yeah, so, uh, real quick, CFM stands for cubic feet per minute.

Cubic feet, okay, there you go.

That, that's what that actually means. So it's moving 1,300 cubic feet per minute of air, which is not a small amount.

No, and it's, it's not really that big.

No.

It's the unit itself. I mean, it's, it's probably this, like a box fan and a half tall.

Yeah.

And about 2 box fans deep.

Okay. So yeah, it's, it's the size of a very large dehumidifier.

Yeah, that's, that's probably fair.

Okay.

Yeah. So, and there's, there's not much to it. There's a membrane on the back, a water reservoir on the bottom, and then a fan with a drip line at the top. There is a small pump inside to get the water out of the reservoir. So the, the way that this works is, which seems counterintuitive when you live in Texas, Florida, Louisiana, most of Mississippi, parts of Alabama, but it adds humidity to the air.

Hmm.

And so the way it works is it actually draws water from the reservoir up to the top, drips it down through the membrane. That fan then pulls the hot air through the membrane and then out. And so you have a wetter, cooler air coming out of the fan.

Okay.

So why that's important to understand is a lot of people get swamp coolers in order to cool their homes, which will be completely ineffective in our part of the country.

Yeah, because all we have is humidity.

That's all we have. And that's pretty much the truth from here all the way across the Gulf Coast is it's nothing but humidity. And apparently it's the same in like New York and Vermont and places like that, where, you know, in drier climates, you can actually get a swamp cooler. And this is really for places west of Texas. So you start getting like New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, California, where you have a dry heat.

Mm-hmm.

And so when you have a dry heat, you can introduce a swamp cooler inside, and you can actually significantly drop the temperature.

Yeah, I think that's where I've seen it most is because, you know, I grew up in West Texas and it's pretty much a desert up there, right? Very, very dry. And that's where I remember seeing them was in old schools for indoor use, right?

You know, and, and part of the reason that they're going to be more popular in areas like that, because even though they're, you know, significantly hot, a swamp cooler has 10 times the efficiency of a traditional air conditioner. So for a lot less money. So I think the way I heard somebody explain it today when I was watching a couple videos on how these swamp coolers work is you got to think of traditional air conditioner, I think it costs like 15 cents an hour to operate on efficiency. Okay. Whereas a swamp cooler would cost you 2 cents per hour.

Wow.

So if, but again, only if you're in a dry climate does that work indoors.

Okay.

Outdoors though, it can work anywhere.

Interesting.

Which is where I was more interested in seeing this thing perform.

Okay, so let me ask these, this. So these large, have you seen the Portacool?

Yeah.

Okay, are those swamp coolers technically?

Yes.

Okay, so these are— what I'm talking about, for those of you who might not know, these are the big things you see like outside on football fields, like where they're, they're huge, massive air conditioners is what they look like for these football players to just keep them cool. But from what you're describing, it sounded like a swamp cooler.

It is. Yeah, that's exactly what those are. But like the ones that you see down on like an NFL field, I mean, those are anywhere from like $2,000 to like $6,000.

Oh yeah, they're, they're, they're super expensive.

And well, it's because they're like, if you've ever gone to purchase like a big industrial fan for like a shop, anything that's over like 2 feet tall, I mean, you're, you're looking at $400, $500, $600, $1,000. just for the fan.

Right.

These Portacool, the Hessaire, all the different brands that do these swamp coolers, they have a lot more going on inside than just the fan.

Yeah.

Now it's, it's a pretty simple machine. Like even the one that I have, it has a hose bib on the outside. So what you do is you hook your hose up to it. And then it has a float valve on the inside. So like when that reservoir gets full, it just turns the water off. Well, then it continues to pump that water out of the reservoir into the membrane. And as the water goes through the membrane, it then evaporates and then gets pushed through the fan. So that's why you, you continuously have to put water into it. Otherwise, there's like a little fill tank on the side.

Okay.

where you can dump like, you know, if you have like an empty Coke bottle, you could dump 2 liters in there. But it's really better if you just have a hose hooked up to it.

That's interesting, because it's, it's the exact— does the exact opposite of what a dehumidifier actually does, right? A dehumidifier, like I've got one in my house, it runs all the time. It draws moisture out of the air and fills a reservoir that once it's Full, if you don't have it draining somewhere, it just shuts off.

Right? It's the same.

It's got a float valve. Once it— once that water floats that valve up, it just shuts the unit off because otherwise it would just keep overflowing and flood your house.

So I'm actually really interested because I know in a couple of weeks we've got Eric G and Caroline B coming up. They're gonna guest on the show. Talk about some new programming they've got going on. But I know that Caroline is a, a home health expert.

Right.

And, and so she deals with, like, air purifiers and dehumidifiers and all these kinds of— and one of the reasons you dehumidify your home is because it, you know, helps reduce mold and mildew and, and different things like that. I'm interested to see what she thinks about swamp coolers being used inside.

Yeah. Especially, especially in those dry climates. Right?

Right. I mean, like, is, is the cost benefit worth what you might be getting out of those units?

Right.

So be interested to hear what she has to say.

Yeah. So the technology is really interesting to me. Um, so have you, have you plugged it in?

Oh yeah.

Okay. So tell me, tell me how it functions. Tell me, I mean, not like logistically how it functions, how well does it function? Are you happy with it?

Yeah, no, I'm, I'm extremely happy with it. One of the, one of the things that we've struggled with is even though the pool itself is very cold, the temperature on the deck can be very hot because it's difficult to move air through there. And whoever built and designed that thing did it in a weird way where You know, we have, like, I think it's 8 ceiling fans along the edges of it, which really just pushes the hot air down. And that just makes it feel really muggy, right, on, on that deck. And so what I wanted to do is see, like, okay, if I introduced some wetter air moving across this space. And it's, I mean, like the whole space is probably like 2,000 square feet.

Sure.

The pool is.

Yeah. And so I set it up in a corner where I had access to a hose to see, you know, how it would do. And the area immediately by the swamp cooler was significantly cooler than the rest of the deck.

Okay.

You know, and as you got further away from it, it obviously got warmer and warmer and warmer. Um, and we test drove this on 4th of July. You know, we had some people over.

Sure.

And, you know, the more warm bodies you put in an area, the warmer it's gonna get. Now, it was a little bit cooler 'cause we did have a rain shower that day. Um, but what was interesting about that is it, you know, you would think that with the rain and the heat and the humidity from the rain, that introducing more humidity into that area would make it feel kind of clammy, right? Not at all.

Really?

Yeah. I mean, it just integrated perfectly into the space. And that's one of the things that you'll hear a lot is that like you have to choose the right space in which to introduce a swamp cooler, because it will never work in this humidity working inside. It will just make the inside feel clammy and wet and weird. Whereas outside, like, like you can't add more humidity to this air.

No.

Like, what are you gonna like?

Like today, I don't know if you looked at it, but today the lowest humidity got down to 82%. That's the lowest.

Yeah.

So you really don't need to do that. But so it sounds like it's working, but it But it's really kind of only working in that one area is what you're telling me?

Right. And I think to efficiently cool like that whole deck, I'd probably need like 3 of them.

Okay.

I'm not gonna do that. I mean, 'cause I mean, I'm looking at like $600 at that point.

Yeah, but, but there's really only about 2 places on your deck to kind of be other than the pool.

Right.

So if you just put it wherever you're going to be, you're going to be in good shape.

You're going to be significantly cooler than you were if you were standing out in the sun. Sure. Yeah.

It's, and it's interesting because a lot of times you put an air conditioner in that kind of space, it's open, just doesn't do anything.

It doesn't do anything. Yeah. Yeah. And they say, and I like having experienced it now, I I totally get it. That little— it'll, you know, make it feel 20 degrees cooler.

Wow.

And it did. Yeah, it definitely did. It was, it was comfortable to sit, sit by it.

But you don't necessarily even have to be like right in front of the fan for you to feel it.

No, no, no. I was, I was probably sitting 10 feet from it.

Yeah.

And I could feel the effects.

Which, that's pretty great because so many times in an outdoor space, if you're not standing right in front of the fan or right right below a ceiling fan or something, like, you don't feel anything, right? Yeah.

So that—

what's really interesting is this sounds like it would be a beautiful addition to my courtyard.

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah.

I mean, because in my courtyard, we do have a ceiling fan in there. It's a big 6-foot blade fan. But it gets— it gets so hot in there, man.

Right? Yeah.

Because you— again, you're not moving any air really. But that sounds like it would be really, really nice.

We might have to take it over there and test drive it.

We should, because, I mean, that's one of the reasons in the summer we don't use that very often. Maybe in the early morning, but once it gets like 9 o'clock, man, it is just miserable out there.

Yeah. And that's, I mean, like when you see pictures of people using it online, they're typically integrating it into the furniture on their patio.

Yeah.

You know, and so they're in close proximity to it so that they can enjoy that space.

Yeah, I would guess that that space in there is probably 350 square feet, something like that.

Okay. Yeah. So this would cover it.

Yeah, it would be perfect.

So it would probably be cool. I mean, because it's enclosed, it would probably cool it off pretty quickly.

Yeah. And especially with the ceiling fan also kind of blowing that air around a little bit. Yeah, I think it would do a great job.

So I mean, like, it's good to understand that this is the, the budget version of a swamp cooler. Yeah. The other ones are way more sophisticated. So now while this one, I think technically this one is a 4-speed fan. Okay. And I think the, the lower you take the fan, the slower the drip from the pump onto the membrane. Okay. The next step up that I saw from this one is close to $600, but it's significantly bigger.

Yeah.

And it has oscillating vents.

Nice.

On the fan.

Okay.

So it will, you know, you know, move the, the guide fans back. The fan itself doesn't move.

Sure.

But the guides on the exterior move to help shift the cool air.

Yeah.

And I will tell you, like, I, I test drove that one at the store.

It's awesome. Yeah.

I mean, like, you want— like, that thing could probably cool off my entire deck.

Wow.

No problem.

Sure.

Um, but it's $600.

Yeah.

You know, and like, that's tough.

Yeah.

When you're, when you're, okay, and I don't think we mentioned this, like this one right now is for sale at Home Depot for $189.

Right.

And I think you can pick it up on Amazon for like $176, but you're gonna pay shipping. And everywhere else that I looked for it, it was more expensive. It was closer to $200.

Okay.

So I mean, like you're gonna save $10 by going to Home Depot. You can get a little bit cheaper on Amazon, but I don't know what the shipping is. It could be on Prime. If you catch it on Prime, that might be worth it if you don't want it like that day.

Sure.

Um, when I went to go get this one, I was like, man, it's 4th of July. I want to really enjoy my deck. This thing has a lot of potential. Let me test drive it. We can talk about it on this show. So let's do this thing.

Yeah, that's cool. I think that, uh, that This is one of those things where you go, okay, how can I get cooler outside? And how can I do it in an efficient way? And it sounds to me like it's a really good option. Here's one question I've got. How loud is it?

Oh, it's not loud at all.

Okay.

I think it's actually quieter than most box fans.

Really?

Yeah.

Okay.

Like you don't really even notice it.

Okay.

And, you know, we were watching Independence Day out on the deck, so. You know, it didn't disturb my alien-killing pleasure that evening.

That's a great movie.

It is great. It's a great 4th of July movie.

It is.

Have you seen the new Bill Pullman ad that they're running now?

No.

All right, internet. If you haven't seen, and I think it's a Budweiser commercial, it's Bill Pullman reprising his Independence Day speech Oh man, it's so good.

I bet it is.

It's really good. We'll have to watch it as soon as we get done recording this.

Cool. Well, what else do we need to know about this thing?

Really, that, that's really it. I mean, they're real simple machines that if you have a front porch, if you have a back porch, if you have a patio, or just an outdoor area that you have difficulty enjoying because it's hot.

Yeah.

This is a good solution to help other people enjoy that space with you.

Yeah.

Because let's be honest, it's difficult to sit in the heat and barbecue or sit on that outdoor patio furniture and have a good conversation while you're drenched in sweat.

Yeah.

You know, and like, nobody likes that. Nobody wants to be there. I don't care how cold the beverage is. It's just not an enjoyable experience. Whereas this, you can integrate into that space and it doesn't look that bad.

Right.

We're gonna have the links up for the, for the unit itself. I will say compared to the other units, which are way more powerful, this thing has a smaller profile. It actually has some design to it. The other ones are just kind of boxy. And, you know, this one has some rounded corners. It actually looks sort of stylish.

Sure.

If you're into that, like, or, you know, the other ones are just sort of like utility, right? Do you want to be cooler?

Right?

That's what they're after. This one actually looks nice. It's got some two-tone to it. I think there's a couple different color variations you can get, but it may depend on the store that you're at.

Okay.

But it's, it's a great unit for a small space. So I'm gonna be— it's got casters on the bottom, because when you feel it, it's The reservoir itself, I think, holds 5 gallons of water, which for some people is too heavy to just like pick up and carry around.

Sure.

I think that's like close to 60 pounds of water.

Yeah.

So, but anyway, it has casters on it. So if you need to roll it around, you can. Or if you're still having trouble moving it, it's, it's got a drain on the bottom. So you can drain the water out, move it to where you want to be, and then fill it back up with water. Right. But it definitely needs the water in order to work properly.

And otherwise, it's just a fan.

It's just a fan. Yeah. Well, and it's, it's like, it's an encumbered fan at that point, because like, it's pulling air through that membrane, and it's just pulling it through a dry membrane. So you're not getting any benefit from it.

Right.

So yeah, I mean, that's really it. I mean, like, you know, I'm going to be moving it around my property, trying it in some different spaces, seeing how it works. I'm gonna put it on my porch. And I don't think we ever talked, we have a wraparound porch.

Right.

And like one side I've got a hammock on. I kind of want to put this bad boy over there.

Yes.

See how my napping improves in the hammock.

It couldn't get worse.

Couldn't get worse.

No.

So I already enjoy it even when it's hot.

Man, we need to get this over to my house just to try it out in that space. Because I do think it's an interesting difference.

Uh-huh.

Than just being in a like completely open air type of place.

Right.

So, yeah.

So, yeah, if, if you're interested, check it out. We'll have a link to the, uh, the spot on Home Depot. We're not making any money off of it. Just, you know, just for your own edification.

That's right.

So any other questions, Kevin?

No, I think that, I mean, the, the sound of it is kind of the biggest deal to me. Like, is it gonna interrupt my other conversations, but it sounds like it's not. It definitely is interesting on, on, I mean, the price really for under $200 to be able to sit in a space that you can't sit in otherwise. Yeah, it's a, I think it's a decent deal. For sure.

I mean, I will say when you initially turn it on, you do hear like a trickling of water. Okay. Um, if that doesn't bother you too much, then you should be in good shape.

Yeah, just be close to a bathroom.

That's right.

And you're good. Man, I love it. I'm looking forward to, uh, to testing it out myself. So very, very cool. Um, thank you guys for tuning in this evening if you were live on Facebook with us. Otherwise, thank you for downloading on Tuesdays. We're here each and every Tuesday, even if I am gone out of the state. Craig keeps things moving right along. So if you haven't already, go ahead and, uh, you know, subscribe, press that button, click that bell, do all the things. Leave us a rating and review on iTunes. That'd be fantastic. We appreciate your loyal listeners out there. And, um, yeah, until next time, we'll see you later.

See ya.