Unmasking Angie’s Leads: The Truth Behind the Sales Pitch

This is episode number 246 of The Homeowner Show. Whether you're DIY or looking to hire, we're here to help you find the best information and options for you and your home. My name is Kevin Hackett, and here with me is Craig Williams.

Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to The Homeowner Show. We're so glad you could join us for a long overdue episode.

doubt about that.

Welcome back, Kevin.

Well, thank you. I mean, it's maybe been a moment or two.

Yeah. Yeah.

But I don't know. It's been a weird month. It's been a weird couple of months.

It's been a weird couple of months.

Yeah. So anyway, like, let me tell you something that's really weird. You wanna hear this?

I do. So, I mean, maybe I'll, I'll cut you off if it gets old.

So Um, I'm, I'm not going to go into why most people in the world have not heard about it, but, um, you and I know that recently, uh, at this point, whenever the podcast is actually coming out, unless you're watching it live right now, less than a week ago, there was a mass shooting real close to us, right? You, you heard about this? I think so. So, um, the, the long story is not what I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna give you the short story. So the short story is, um, there was a guy outside shooting in his front yard.

In your neighborhood?

In— not my neighborhood, in a neighborhood.

In a neighborhood.

Uh, not too far from here. And shooting a gun, which is illegal and very loud.

Okay.

And so, uh, the next-door neighbor goes over and says, hey, you're being really loud, my kid's trying to sleep.

It was at night.

We got people over. No, it's in the afternoon.

We got some people over taking a nap. Got it.

Kids taking a nap. Um, toddler type, type kid or baby. I don't even know, actually. Small child. Um, and the guy went nuts. Goes over to the house and starts shooting.

Really?

Shoots a guy's wife, kills her. Shoots, um, his son, 9 years old. And the son eventually dies. And then shoots 3 other ladies that were there as well. And very likely would have, um, from what I understand at least, um, got the baby as well. But there were like ladies laying on top of the baby.

Jeez.

Protecting the baby. Um, and so then he took off. Like, he— they couldn't find him. And there was like 200 officers looking for him at one point.

Is that the guy that they captured here?

Yeah, they just captured him recently.

Um, okay, I knew that they kept—

he was hiding. Yeah, he was hiding out at a family member's house. Yeah, and, uh, they— one of like his cousin or something turned him in. But, um, the, the guy that went over and told him to stop shooting, uh-huh, did all the electrical work on my mother-in-law's house.

Seriously?

Yeah, the one that we just finished like Couple months ago.

So did he kill him?

No, he didn't kill him. He killed his wife, who's been over at our house, killed the son who's played around in my yard. And, uh, that's crazy. I know, absolutely nuts.

So was he not there or something?

No, he was— no, he, he walked over to the guy and was like, hey, stop shooting.

And, um, what, did he shoot him?

No. He, he didn't. He walked over and shot up his family.

Well, so where was he though?

I, I—

while they were shooting his family?

I mean, from, from what I know, uh-huh, he was, I, I guess, like trying to call the cops, trying to—

I, I don't know.

Jeez, I don't know what was going on. But like, it was heartbreaking whenever I found out, um, for all the reasons. But, um, I mean, I'm, I'm reading a news story about somebody that you know. About someone.

And it is different when it's somebody that you know.

Right. And I'm seeing the pictures of him just, you know, bawling his eyes out, you know. They're doing these vigils and stuff. And like, I don't know, man. It's just— it was one of those deals. It's like, this is a contractor that's been at my house.

Yeah.

Working on my mother-in-law's house. And, and now like his family's just decimated, you know.

They're gone.

They're gone. I mean, it's just— it's absolutely It's nuts. So the, so the guy was a, a Mexican national of some sort that was, that was shooting.

I did see that on the news. Yeah.

He was— And they were from Honduras just trying to over here trying to make a life for themselves, you know? That's crazy. Yeah. Anyway, so I, I mean, man, the world, but, you know, most people didn't hear about that one. The mass shooting of a, of a Honduran by a Mexican national, you know?

I mean, I, I've seen, I've seen different bits and pieces of it in news. I just hadn't connected them all together as the same story. Yeah. Um, because I knew that they caught him here.

I did—

was he— but did that shooting happen?

It happened out in like the Cut and Shoot area.

Cut and Shoot, okay.

Yeah, so happened out in that area. Um, and, and they were— I, I don't know exactly where they, where they caught him, but in, in, in a similar area they, they caught him. Um, and, uh, yeah, so they've actually arrested some of the other people.

Yeah, they arrested the people who were like hiding him.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, which is good.

Yeah, which they should have, obviously. But, you know, they had a $100,000 reward out for him. Yeah. One of them was like, I'm gonna get that reward. And like, nah, it didn't really work that way, buddy.

Because you were harboring him.

You were harboring him.

Yeah.

So it doesn't really work that way. Sorry. I'm assuming. I'm hoping. No.

Yeah, we're not gonna add to your bail fund. Right.

Well, so that's the other thing. He has a bail set.

What?

Yes.

No.

Yes, it's $7.5 million, but it doesn't matter how much it is. The fact that they have a bail set for him—

That's stupid.

I mean, he's obviously a flight risk.

Yes.

You know, and like, I'm— I was watching, uh, one of the Facebook pages that is— that is in our area, kind of a community Facebook page. It's got tens of thousands of people in it, and there's a lot of people in the area that are genuinely scared. You know, they were like, we— we gotta find— he's at large until yesterday.

Yeah.

They're like, we, we have no idea. Is he gonna come back? Like, what's gonna happen? Is he gonna be on a rampage again? Like, they were genuinely scared, obviously.

Yeah, because once you, once you cross that threshold, I mean, what do you have to lose?

Exactly. No, you're, you're, you're fighting for your life as well. Yeah. Because the likelihood of, you know, you running and, you know, police getting you or whatever. But like, um, they set bail? I—

that makes no sense to me.

What, what in the world?

I, I like— we need to find out what this judge's name is.

him on notice, right?

Or her on notice.

Yeah, absolutely. So anyway, that's a terrible story. Sorry, sorry to start off that way, but like, I— it, it's really kind of hit me in a, in a bad way because, um, like I said, that, that kid's been over at my house running around, and his wife, and they were young, you know.

So sad.

Yeah, so sad. Anyway, man, how are you, Craig?

I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm okay considering.

I know, right? Yeah, things could be a lot worse.

Uh, yeah, they could be a lot worse. So I mean, it's— I mean, like, it's— it's— I mean, even though, like, we— I mean, like, the show has gone on despite us.

Thankfully.

Thankfully they don't need us. That's right. The intern Rizzler was, was handling stuff out at the, uh, Moonshine Deck, and John Havard jumped in and handled the show like a pro.

Well, of course he did.

Yeah, he did. He did great. I don't know, have you gotten to watch the whole thing yet?

No, not the whole thing even. I mean, I've been so busy, I haven't even watched our own show.

Yeah, he did. He did a great job. And then Ashley Wade Klein, who was a guest on the show, like a little short 15-minute episode, she ended up winning the Lutron gift package.

We finally got rid of that thing. No, but it was a good package.

It was a fantastic package.

It had like tons of Switches in it.

And well, I gotta tell you, so at that event, I, I did get to go to the, the end of that event. I just, I didn't— it was— I wasn't on the show.

Yeah.

Um, I forget what I think. I had like a baseball game or something. Yeah, that's been crazy, by the way.

Yeah.

Um, uh, our— we had our last game last night.

Oh, you did?

Yeah.

Did you win?

We did.

Oh, congrats.

13 to nothing.

So that's That's a large margin, Craig.

Well, so we can talk about that.

Did they have all their players on the field?

They did. They did have all their players on the field. No, my boys were a little ramped up to win that one because they were irritated because it was actually a replay, but we had to pick up from where we left off. Oh, and when we left off, we were up 9 to nothing. They're like, why are we doing this?

Right.

really, they put it to them.

Yeah.

You're gonna make us replay this thing?

Fine. Here's 4 more.

That's right. So anyway, I know the event was great. Actually, what was cool about it is when we brought out the prize, what it was gonna be that night. Yeah. There was a couple of companies there that are electricians. Oh. And they were like, we want that.

Of course they did.

Yeah, we know, we know how cool that stuff is. We put them, we put them in for other people. Haven't been able to put them in for ourselves, right? We want that Lutron stuff.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I don't even know, there's probably at least $250 worth of stuff.

Oh, it was well more than that.

I mean, yeah, with, with all the switches, with the hub, we had outdoor switches, we had, um, like, like dimmer switches that are like—

There was even like a repeater, like an extender, range extender for it, so if you had like a bigger home, you could, you could put something like that in.

Yeah.

So, but anyway, I want to get to what we're talking about tonight because tonight's— I think tonight's going to be fun, um, for us. Yes, I'm, I'm one bourbon in and looking to be two bourbon.

Okay.

And so, uh, we got to stick it to Angie's List tonight.

Yes, we do.

So here, here's what happened. Um, I'm gonna peel back the curtain a little bit. Uh, for those of you who've been watching the show for a long time, you probably figured out by now I own a pest control company.

Oh wow. Yeah, there it is.

There it is. We're 246 episodes in and we finally revealed Well, like, you know, after so many episodes of, like, people who come in that know what I do that start asking me bug questions, like, on air, and they're like, people— I, I imagine people are like, why do they keep asking him? So I own a pest control company, have for a long time now, and, and we do pretty good.

Yeah.

And so today, I had, I had the office phone, and I got a sales call, which is not uncommon. Like, we, we probably get, like, 10 sales calls a day.

Right.

We've learned, you know, like, we know who we want to work with, we know what we want. And so, like, most of the time, if there's something that we need, we're going to go find it, right? Like, sales calls just irritate us. So, but this guy was rather sneaky, uh, called and left a message and said, hey, I heard you're the person I need to talk to about pest control. Give me a call back, I think I've got something for you. Okay, so called him back, left him a message. He called me back this afternoon and says, hey man, do you guys do, uh, rodent work? Sure do, no problem. How can I help you? And he's like, well,

I think I've got a lead for you. And I'm like, a lead for me? And he goes, yeah, I'm with Angie's List. And I'm like, oh, okay. Like, I've tried working with you guys before. It's just not a good fit for us, man, but, but thank you. And he goes, well, you couldn't use extra work? And I'm like, no, not really. Like, we've kind of figured out how to generate our own leads. Um, we do it pretty affordably. Um, I'm really not interested in paying for leads. He goes, yeah, but you could use extra work, right? And like keeps pressing me and keeps pressing me, and I'm trying to be polite and like politely say no. And I'm giving him every opportunity to get off, and I know that they're trained to not get— you know, to try and keep you on the phone

as long as possible. I know how this works. And he keeps going and keeps going, and, and I finally tell him, I'm like, look, man, do you want me to be honest with you, like why I don't want to use your service?

Yeah.

like, yeah, I need to know. I'm like, cool, great, here you go. Your stuff's too expensive, your leads are crap, the leads that come through never come through, I have to compete with them for— with other people, and like, why would I pay for something that I can create on my own that's actually better?

Yeah.

And I was like, you asked. And he's like, well, you know, we've changed things since you've, you've been with us before. And I was like, I don't think you have.

Not from what I hear.

And I was like, do I still have to pay per lead? Yeah. I was like, what's the fee to sign up? And he's like, well, and he kinda, you know, rambles on for a little bit. And I'm like, so what's the—

what's— what is it—

what is it gonna cost me to sign up for this thing? He's like, well, it's gonna be like $280 a year.

Okay.

Just to be on the platform.

Right.

And I'm like, so I don't get exclusivity, but you still want me to pay. And then even though I click on the lead, you're still gonna make me pay for it even though you're gonna give it to other people. Like, I, I know, I know how your system works.

Right. Which we will dive into that in a moment.

Yeah. So, and he just gets more angry with me and angry with me. And he said, well, what's it gonna take to, to get you to change your mind? I said, tell you what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna reach out to all the people that I know who own bi— own and operate businesses, and I'm gonna ask them about you. And if I get a good report, tell you what, I'll sign up. So I did this afternoon or today. I sent out the bat signal.

Yes.

And I didn't, I didn't ask in any sort of leading way. No, I literally— I'm gonna pull up the— I'm gonna pull up the post right now.

Hang on. Okay.

Because we're gonna have to go through this thing.

Yeah.

Piece by piece. Yes, we are.

Yes.

Okay. So here's what I said. I said, Who has used Angie's Lee— Angie's List to get leads? What has your experience been like? I think that's probably the most vanilla way I could have asked that question.

Oh, absolutely.

Right?

Yeah.

Just, I'm literally asking for feedback. Um, and I want to know what people who have used them, what their experience has been like.

Yeah.

I have never gotten so many comments in my life.

Yeah. It's— it, it, it was, quite a few.

Let me— before we get into this, it's a freaking dumpster fire. Yeah.

It is.

Like, and, and here was— here was what this guy told me today. He goes, well, I don't understand why you're not interested when there's over 200— 2 million people on our platform every day.

Alright. Let's talk about this. So, I know a few things about Angie's. And, and now it's, it's Angie's Leads. It used to be Angie's List.

Okay.

It's now called Angie's Leads. Okay.

They changed the name.

The reason they—

And then, then they— but they also incorporated HomeAdvisor.

Well, they bought HomeAdvisor.

Right.

And so, so then that's whenever they changed it to Angie's Leads. So here, I'm gonna show it to you from a consumer side, and I'm gonna show it to you from a contractor side. So—

So before that, can we, can we play the— let's just go ahead and kick it off with—

Okay. Well, here's, here's the, here's how we feel about it.

Yeah. Right?

Here we go. Here we go.

There it is.

There it is. There it is. Yeah. So that's, that's perfect.

Let's burn it down.

Just burn it down.

Yep.

So here's, here's the thing. If you're a consumer and you think, okay, I— let's use pest control for an example because Here, we're just putting it out there. So let's say that I've got a rodent problem, and I go and I search and I determine, oh, here's Angie's. I'm going to find the best contractor that I can find because Angie's tells me that they have the best contractors on their platform.

Right.

Right? The best contractors in your area. So here's what we need you to do. Fill out this form, tell us what you need, and we will have a contractor, one of our vetted contractors, call you and, and get you taken care of.

Right.

That's how that works. From a consumer side, okay. Whatever. Now let's flip it around for a minute. So for a contractor, here, here's the process. If you want to be one of their vetted contractors on their platform, that is someone that they're telling the consumer is the best in, in the network in the area.

Right.

There's one very simple thing that you have to do.

Mhmm.

Pay them. That's all you have to do. To be a contractor on their platform.

Yeah.

You have to pay them this $280 fee. That is the barrier to entry to be one of their vetted contractors on their platform. Okay?

Right up there with prostitution. Yeah. Yeah.

So here's, here's how that works. Angie's Leads gets a lead from a consumer that comes in. We just talked about that.

Yep.

And they send that lead to as many contractors as they can possibly send it to.

Yeah.

And that lead, they're gonna charge you, like, let's say it's a rodent job. I don't know what a rodent job costs on Angie's. I'm guessing it is a massive spectrum for— it's, it's a, it is a, it's a range, right? For rodents, I bet it's up there a little bit. I'm betting it's a $75, $100 lead, most likely. And they're gonna, they're gonna send that to 7, 8, 9, 10 Contractors.

Yeah. And, and let me, let me just say this real quick just so everyone has perspective. Like, when I say it has a massive spectrum, I've written tickets for rodent jobs anywhere from $55 to $30,000.

Okay.

So yeah, there's your range.

Yeah. And you don't know, you have no idea when you get that lead what it's actually gonna be.

What am I dealing with? You have no idea.

You have no idea.

And that was the other thing, man. He's like, aren't you tired of driving around and looking at jobs? like, I don't have to do that now.

Right? No. I, I'm, I'm not doing that. So, so here's what you have to do if you're a contractor and you get one of these leads that come through.

Mhmm.

You as a pest control get a rodent lead. Here's what has to happen. You have to stop what you're doing immediately. Mhmm. And call that lead.

Yeah.

Because if you don't, it's a race. One of those other 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 people are going to call them first. And if I've got a rodent problem, guess who I'm gonna hire? The first person that can get there.

Pretty much.

You know? And so, and, and I believe as a consumer, this is one of their vetted contractors. Right?

Yeah.

Like, why wouldn't I hire whoever called first?

Well, and let, let me ask you this. I mean, like, and, and, and people jump in on the comments on this. I mean, like, if I told you that I am sending you a vetted contractor, what would you assume that they have done on the back end to make sure that they're vetted? Great question. Because I would, I would think at minimum you've probably run a background check.

You would think, yeah.

At minimum. At minimum.

And if it is a— at minimum. And then I think that if it is a, a niche, uh, industry that requires a license, like HVAC for example, Right. Maybe you would check to make sure their license is up to date.

License, which we've, we've run, run into that with some of our friends recently where they, they, they were using people that lied to them.

Right.

About their licensing.

Exactly. Exactly. So here, here's the thing that as those of you that are homeowners that are listening to this show right now, I want you to understand something. Whenever you give your information to Angie's, they are not, or HomeAdvisor or Porch or Thumbtack or any of these what we call aggregators.

Mhmm.

They are sending that to multiple different people, and you are probably going to get multiple different, like, 7, 8 potentially phone calls back.

Yeah.

And the contractor, it doesn't— Craig, it doesn't matter if you call that person back. Guess who pays for that lead? You do.

You do.

Every single time. So that $7,500 lead, whatever they're charging you for that, it doesn't matter if you, if you contact them. You're still gonna pay that every single time. I've talked—

Oh, I know.

Like, this is—

this is the problem is I—

I've—

that's what I tried to tell this guy is like, I've used your service before.

Yeah.

And I found it lacking.

Sure. Exactly. I mean, I had a guy, tell me one day, he— he did insulation. He told me that he got a lead from Angie's Leads for weatherstripping around a person's front door.

Mhmm.

And that person lived 20 miles away from where he is.

Yeah.

And he was gonna have to pay $50 for that weatherstripping lead. And he said, first of all, I don't do weatherstripping. That is not a— I, I had to fill out a profile.

Yeah.

And it doesn't say weatherstripping anywhere on there. And part of the reason I don't do weatherstripping is because it will cost me more dollars to get the weatherstripping.

Mhmm.

Go drive 20 miles one way, do the weatherstripping job, then I can charge them to begin with. And now guess what? I gotta pay a $50 lead.

Yeah.

On top of that.

This is—

this is—

Lost money.

Yeah. It's highway robbery is what it is. So Angie's List and Angie's Leads now, they are— they're a, a, a lead aggregator.

Mhmm.

That charge differently than you as a consumer think they do, probably. So I love the question that's put out, and you put it out in a couple different places, but one of them is on a local contractor network. Then, and you've all heard if you watch our show, we put it on the contractors network.

Yeah.

And you ask the question, like you said, who's used them and what is your experience? But it's not leading, just a simple question.

Yeah.

And there are a lot of responses.

I'm just gonna— so let's, for fun, I mean, and to not be, you know, because we, we have our own opinions about this, but like, here's the thing is Angie's List, Leads, whatever they wanna call— like, they probably just need to drop the Angie's altogether and, and rebrand because business people who have been doing this for a while can't stand them.

No, they cannot. And it is clear.

Yeah, it's not— it's like not even close. Like, I could read you like the one comment.

Yep.

That's not hateful. Yeah. And it's not even like positive.

No.

So I mean, it's easier just to kind of go through lists because none of them are positive, right? Like, and I kept waiting, like, I was like, surely there's someone on here who's just been killing it with Angie's. Nobody. Nobody. No. I mean, so I'm just, I'm just gonna start here at the top. Ray says, don't, LOL. Terry says, don't do it, worst return on investment. Joseph says, horrible, bad leads. Depending on the category of work, leads can be around $200. So it's gonna cost $200 per lead.

Right.

Vladimir, stay away. Betty, don't.

Gio, this was my favorite one, basura, which I didn't know what that meant because I'm not, you know, bilingual, but it means trash. It means trash. Yep.

Eddie says scam, which by the way, we may have to like just like screenshot some of these just so people don't know, don't think that we're making them up, right?

Um, we, we actually have some here that are full sentences, but so far people are like, I'm not even gonna give this my time.

Yeah, it's one word.

No, you're done.

Just be done with this. But, like, we also need to, like, protect people's privacy.

Sure.

Because, like, this is— these are— these are closed groups. Will says, don't. The entire company needs to be shut down. Here's Jose. He said, I did it for 2 years almost. A lot of scams, but it did bring me some money last year. But I only liked it when they were paired up with Handy. I think Handy is another app. Sure. They would sub me decent work, but they stopped that already. Now it's nothing but scam leads. Yeah.

Okay. So what he's talking about there is this happens. They will, they will feed you some decent leads to begin with. And then over time, they get, they get worse and worse and worse.

Yeah. Matthew just posted a picture of a siren flashing. Anto. Don't, period. Waste of money, period. Uh, Chris, worst decision I ever made as a business owner. Wow. Once you give them your contact information, get ready to get bombarded with phone calls about Google Ads and all other kind of solicitation. They sell your information to the highest bidder. Wow. Yeah. Uh, and then a couple people responded to that, was like, holy crap, that's why my phone's getting blown up all the time.

Yeah.

Let's see. Johnny says, just read the reviews. If you go with it, you're on your own.

Like, look, do your research, and if you really wanna do it at that point, good luck.

Let's see. Maria, that's what I used to start my business. I think this is the one that's, like, slightly, like, not negative.

Yeah. This is the only one.

Yeah. It says, that's what I used to start my business. It was HomeAdvisor at the time. You have to know how to use it wisely in order to not— in order not to get screwed over with ridiculous charges. So the best thing that you can say about it is, it took me a long time to figure it out, but I was still getting screwed with ridiculous charges.

Exactly.

Yeah. And there's a couple people that replied to that. It was like, yeah, same experience.

Yeah.

Matthew says, if you're looking to spend money, just send me a check every month and you may get the same number of usable leads from me as you would from them.

That one, that one is so good.

Send me money.

I'll just—

Send it to me.

Right.

Yeah.

It's good.

Uh, let's see. Shelby says, don't do it. I'd have been better off just lighting thousands of dollars on fire. About 90% of their leads would not answer calls, texts, or emails. Of the small percentage that did answer, most said said that they had no idea how I got their info.

Oh my goodness.

Of the handful of leads that were legit, those customers were expecting bottom-dollar pricing because Angie had given the same lead to a dozen other companies. Yeah.

So here's what happens. So, so, I mean, when you think about it, if they're sending it to a dozen other companies, someone is out there and they're just gonna trash the dollar amount.

Yeah.

Like that, let's say you had a rodent job and it was a, I don't know, like a $50 job, like something pretty cheap. Someone's out there doing it for $15. Yeah, they're going to.

Just because.

Just because they, who knows? Yeah, they're not, I'm not gonna say that. Their practices are different than yours. You know, I mean, someone's gonna do that. And so what Shelby's saying here is like, look, I can't compete with a dozen other people that are not— they're not good. They're not vetted correctly. You know?

None of them are vetted.

No.

Let's just be honest. None of them are vetted.

No, they're not.

Like, he was, he was ready to sign me up today.

Yep.

He didn't know who I was.

Nope.

He didn't know if I had a license. He didn't know how long I'd been in business. He didn't know if— he didn't know anything about me.

No.

Just signed me up.

Yep.

Right now. You want, you wanna pick up the feed?

Yeah.

Okay. So, because the next one's actually one of my favorites.

Yeah. Well, the next one just says trash.

Yeah. Yeah.

That's it.

He sort of— he went with the English version.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Exactly. This would be me. I can, I can, I can speak English sometimes. The next one from Mike says too expensive and the leads fall through every time. Well, that's not helpful. No, it's not helpful at all. Okay, the next one says—

This one's actually pretty informative as to how the system works.

Yeah, it really is. Be mindful of clicking accept on things. Click— okay, I'm gonna make sure I read that correctly. Be mindful of clicking accept on things without much information and no way of getting a hold of the client. You still have to pay. A lot of those I've come in contact will try to lowball on jobs. Don't click on opportunities if you're not 100% sure it's doable. They're way more expensive. I will say any issues that we've had requesting refunds on things, our reps have been pretty good about handling it. Honestly, I like cold calling better.

Which is like the bottom rung of sales.

Yeah.

No one likes cold calling.

Nobody does.

So you'd rather cold call than get a lead from Angie?

Yeah. That's bad.

That, that's, that just says everything right there.

Yeah. That's really, really bad.

No one, no one in the history of anything likes to cold No.

No. It's— why would you?

Yeah.

I mean, I don't like talking to people that I don't know.

Yeah.

And I like talking to people.

Yeah.

So—

So really, the, the— I mean, like, if I could sum this, this comment up, be mindful of getting completely screwed.

Yeah.

Okay.

We got, we got our buddy Ryan A. Duddle just said, no. Shoot me in the face cold calling. Exactly. Nobody wants to do it.

But you could do Angie.

Hey, but Ryan, you know, there's, there's this option.

There's another option that's way worse. It's way worse.

Oh, geez.

You could cold call while paying for the privilege.

Exactly. I paid for this.

And you're up against 10 other whores who are way better looking than you.

Exactly. They charge a lot less too. Oh my goodness. Alright. The next one says, doing, doing your own marketing versus buying leads is the same as building your brand versus building your brand.

Yeah. So, like, yeah. They're, they're asking you to pay them so that they can increase their footprint.

That's right.

In the digital space.

Right.

If, if you don't know that that's what's going on, let me be the first to tell you. You are paying them to increase their marketing footprint.

Yeah. Exactly. So just do your own marketing. That's kind of the deal.

Yeah.

Uh, the next one says, hit me up, I'll make you a lot of money without wasting money on Angie. So who knows what he does. Uh, the next one says, do the Angie ads, they're better leads. That is actually interesting, but guess what you're gonna do for those? Pay more. I mean, if you've got specific ads that you're doing on top of everything else, you're gonna pay more.

Yeah.

Uh, the next one is one of my favorites, actually. It sucks. Tell us how you really feel. Yeah. You know? So what does Angie's List do that are so bad?

This is— so this is actually an—

actually a question.

Yeah.

Like, I'm just really curious.

So what does Angie's List do so bad that they should change?

That they should change.

So there's only one response to that question, and it says, they never give you good leads, only small jobs, very small not worth it.

Yeah, exactly.

Which, I mean, like, that, that's— I think that's, that's one aspect of it.

Oh, that— so, so the person that asked this question is someone that we know, and he, he's genuinely curious, and, and I, and I know why. But at the same time, probably because he's never used them. Probably never used them. Yeah, probably never had to.

I'm, I'm actually going to ask him. I'm going to reach out and ask him if he's never— if he's ever used them.

Yeah. Great question. All right, so, um, had some leads coming from them, but nothing materialized in actual work, so I quit. Um, the next one is someone just laughing, and then they, they—

well, they've got like—

then there's like 7 other, uh, things here. Some of them I can't say. Uh, one of them said, scam bro, get out there and work it. It doesn't come for free. Bust your, um, your rear. Rear.

Yeah. Um, and so we're editorializing for the internet.

Yeah, yeah. And I can't read the rest of this, uh, so I'll just skip. Um, so the next one, uh, from Elvira says most of their leads are fake or scams. That's a, that's a pretty, uh, that's a heavy accusation right there. It really is. I don't know that they're fake. I've never heard that they're fake. I've never heard that they're scams. I, I don't know. But I do know that—

So like, when, when I have used them in the past, the, the leads weren't fake, right? They were just tire kickers.

A lot of tire kickers. I mean, because here's the thing, if you're—

and I'm, I'm not saying that tire kickers are bad.

No.

But like, when, when you have to pay to talk to a tire kicker.

Yeah, that's tough.

I mean, you know, and like, when the person that sold you the privilege of getting those leads told you like, we have really good leads, I'm ready, I've got one for you right now, right?

I'll hand it to you.

Yeah, I mean, it's like, like, look, I'm not a fish, right? I'm not, I'm not an idiot, right? Apparently there's, you know, we've all been duped by the same guy, right?

And so I've even got a question about that right there. He's sitting here saying, hey, hey Craig, I got a lead for you. Yeah, what about those other people that paid them to give them the leads? Yeah, they didn't get that lead. Why are you getting that lead? Yeah, you haven't paid for anything, but they're, they're, they're drawing you and they're enticing you with something.

Yeah.

It's just a— it's a—

Well, like, here, here's, here's like the weird psychology of this, right? I mean, like, he's calling me trying to convince me that their platform is so good, right? If it's so good, I should be hearing from these people who are now berating them openly on the internet about how great it is, and I'm just missing out because I, I, I'm I'm not getting the leads that they're getting. If it's so great, I should be seeking them out.

Oh yeah.

Not the other way around.

Correct. I mean, they're— this is a huge national company.

Yeah.

Like, they, they're massive. I mean, it doesn't matter what niche you put in, what industry you're looking for, they're showing up.

When, when they got started, they had a great concept.

They did, but they lost their way.

They ruined it. Yep.

They did.

They absolutely ruined it. Well, I don't, you know, and I don't think it was Angie. I mean, like, you know, I think she sold it and they— other people took over and ruined it. Um, but anyway, yeah, we, we can carry on.

There, there's a couple more here. Um, don't use it.

That's generous. A couple, right?

Don't use it. Uh, they never give you a— any good leads.

Uh, the next one says, dude, I love this one.

Yeah. Okay. 21 leads. One was valid. They would— one, one out of 21. This is And guess what they did with those other 20? They paid for them. Paid for them. They had to.

Yeah.

So 21 leads, one was valid. They would only credit the first 4, then said I was asking for too many credits and wouldn't credit the others. I even drove to the address they sent and door knocked and it— and took video of walking to the door, the address, and the customer saying they did not call or request anything or anyone. And it was $8,000 in the trash.

Jeez.

$8,000.

$8,000 for one lead.

20 leads. Yeah. So do the math. I mean, these are high-dollar leads. I don't know.

$400 a lead.

Yeah. I don't know what his industry is, but I do know that is ridiculous.

I, I'm sorry. There is not a lead It's not there.

No, because this is not closed business. This is not closed business that they are sending you. Yeah, they did not— they did not take this lead, vet them, go to their house, give them a bid, tell them, look, we're going to come to your house on Thursday and complete this job. They didn't sell this. For $400, I might buy that if it was sold, but it's not sold. This is an opportunity.

Yeah. And before we continue with the rest of the comments, because there's many more, Why? Some people may be asking, like, why is this relevant to, to homeowners?

Right?

Here's, here's what you need to know is those that are participating on this platform are not your local qualified, skilled local businesses.

Right.

They are those that can afford to waste money on $400 a lead.

Uh-huh.

And they're playing a different game. It is not, it is not the people who have spent years crafting their skill and wanting to serve their community. It is a different kind of business that you're getting on here. You're not getting your neighbor's business.

Yeah. And, and I wanna piggyback off that because I don't think that a large company is a bad company.

Not, not, not necessarily.

I mean, there, there are a lot of, there are a lot of companies out there that have grown because they're actually really very good.

Sure.

However, there's a lot of people who grew their, their, their business out of their shop.

Mhmm.

Right? And once they got to a size that was pretty attractive to bigger businesses, they acquire them.

Yep.

And why wouldn't you, as a small business owner, If, if you've got, if you've got a business that's worth $8 million and someone's willing to pay you $8 million for it, guess what?

Walk away.

I'm, yeah, I'm done. I'm done driving to people's houses for $400 leads.

Right?

I'm not doing that. I'll take $8 million and I will feed my family for a long time. Right? So this happens all the time. But I think that the thing that I want our, our homeowners to know is when you give your information to Angie's or HomeAdvisor or Porch or Thumbtack or any of these that are aggregators, you will not get top quality contractors calling you.

Yeah.

It just is not gonna work that way. It won't happen.

Yeah.

Do your research. I mean, don't just give your information out to people anyway.

Do you?

Why would you do that? Why would you do that? You know, do your research. Find people that are good, reputable. You know, ask for licenses if it's a if it's an industry that needs a license. Like, do your own background checks on these people. You know, because I promise you, Angie's is not doing it. So, you know, I I just on Facebook, I titled this, you know, like our experience with Angie's. It's not good, people.

Nope.

And it's not just us. It's like all of these people. that we didn't even read all of the, the comments, but they're more of the same. Right?

Oh, I've got more.

Do you wanna keep going?

Oh, yeah.

Okay. Let's keep going.

No. The, the people need to know.

Yeah. Yeah. So, Ryan also commented here. This is why roofers pay people $300 to $500 a lead if they get to quote the job.

Yeah.

If they get to quote the job, though.

If they get to quote it. Yeah.

Like, that's the thing is, like, I, I don't mind coming. If I get to quote the job, I will pay you for the lead.

Yeah.

But if I don't ever get a chance to actually talk to the person, why would I pay you for that?

Yeah.

But that's what Angie's is asking you to do.

And, like, I think, like, people need to understand, like, you know, your, your time in the field is your most valuable time as a business owner. And so, like, if you are, you know, you, you team yourself up with someone like Angie's, your expectation is that there's gonna be a massive quantity as well as quality because that's what they promise you.

Right.

And so when you show up to someone's door and it's like, I've never even been on that platform. I don't know what you're talking about. Like, all of a sudden you're like, oh, no.

Yeah.

What did I do?

Sure.

I've now committed myself to something that is obviously gonna waste me hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, like the guy we just— what did you say? $8,000?

Yeah.

Down the drain.

Mhmm.

For nothing.

Nothing.

Like, one, one lead that came through. I guarantee you that lead was not 8 grand.

No.

It didn't. So, like, he's just, he's just out 8 grand.

Right.

It's, it's spinning his wheels on 20 conversations that generated nothing.

Mhmm.

So, and, and, and, but they're over here on the back end. It's like, no, you're just using the, you're just using the platform wrong.

Yeah, and see, the thing is, like, a lot of these guys, they, they, they go out and they start their own business.

Mhm.

Because they're genuinely trying to do a great job. I mean, I— now don't, don't hear me say that every small business owner is good at what they do, because they are not. We all know that. However, a lot of people that start their own business do so because they worked for another business and they learned what they were doing. They're like, you know what, I'd like to do this on my own. Well, guess what? A, a small business owner in that situation, they have to figure out how to grow their business.

Yeah.

They gotta find out where their leads are gonna come from. And Angie's is sitting here going, hey, we'll give them to you. Just pay us a little bit of— it's just a little bit for every lead.

Yeah.

I mean, we're, we're talking, you know, a lot of them, seriously, a lot of them are $50 to $100.

Well, for a lead, it's not that big of a deal. On, on the phone today, this guy was telling me, he's like, no, they're all like $20.

Well, that's—

they're all like $20. And I'm like, I know that that's not true, right? I know it's not true, right? And we know that now because like we're listening to the people that have used them, right? So, uh, here's— I'll go through this because I know you can't see this one. I'm in a, uh, a group, uh, it's called Pest Control Professionals. It's a group, uh, we kind of share information with each other about, you know, different parts of the country where different treatments are doing Well, but we also talk about business in this group. It's, it's very helpful. So I put it up in this group because here, here's what I wanted to know. I put it up in the Contractors Network, um,

because one, because we've done a lot of work with that group, right? It's a, it's a big group. We're going to get a lot of diverse reactions to— and I thought for sure within that group we were going to at least, you know, maybe, you know, 20% positive, 80% negative, right? Um, but it was like Oh, 99% negative, right? And like 1% positive. Um, and so I was like, okay, maybe, maybe I could take it to like a very specific niche and see what their response would be like.

Sure.

You know, like, okay, let me, let me talk to the people who are actually in my field, right, and see what they would think.

Sure.

Here's what they said. Scotty says, junk. At least for me. Matthew says garbage.

More trash. Yep.

Uh, Sue Ann says, we have used HomeAdvisor. I think it was purchased by Angie's Leads.

They're not wrong.

And we did not find valuable leads. We did get leads regularly, but they were not always geared towards our services. I think you pay an annual fee plus fee per lead. And that is absolutely accurate. You do pay an annual fee and you pay per lead. And that is one of the biggest complaints that I've heard from this platform is that the leads that you get aren't— like, you, you can tell them the kind of things that you want to get.

Yep.

And you don't get those things.

Well, like I said, we, we had a guy, a guy I know that does insulation, and he got weatherstripping.

Yeah.

And he didn't do that. And by the way, the follow-up to that is he called them. He spent 2 hours on the phone trying to talk to customer service, get his money back on, on that.

Yeah.

And the best they could do is give him 50% back.

Yeah.

They gave him 50— they did give him 50% back, but they were like, no, you're still gonna have to pay for it.

But nuts to that, dude.

Yeah. Exactly.

I mean, like, what's your time worth? 2 hours on the phone?

Right. 2 hours. Yeah. 2 hours on the phone that he was not—

He didn't get the job, and then you had to fight with him on the phone for 2 hours to get half your money back.

You got it.

Yeah. So Stacy says, HomeAdvisor, Angie's List is a scam. Hire a pro instead. Eddie put up a funny meme that just says, don't do it. Jim says, generally junk leads. Most were just shopping for lower price after getting quotes from big companies. The others want to negotiate price. Huge waste of time and money. Socrates says, stay far, far away. Block their number. Tell them to never contact you again. A scam from start to finish.

Okay. So that's— I love that. Uh, the, the, the honesty there. But here's the problem. From what I understand from, from a lot of contractors that I've spoken with, they call from local numbers.

They do.

And they—

He called me, he called me from a local number today.

Exactly. So you think it might be a potential customer and they call. So they call from local numbers and they, that number is not gonna be the same every time.

Right.

So for the contractor, that, again, it's, you can't get away from it. You know?

Yeah. So this, this, this next one's actually an interesting one. It's not nearly like negative or positive, but here's what he says. This is Max. He says, been using it for the past year, had good luck with it, but my business is more wildlife focused, so I have more of a monopoly in my area because not many people do wildlife— because many people— okay, because not many people do wildlife exclusion and wildlife removal. My services expand as far as doing egg addling for geese populations. So I think it works well if there's not a lot of competition in the area. So, okay, he's been using it for the past year, had good luck with it.

That, that actually makes sense.

Yeah, if there's no competition, like, you would probably do pretty well.

I would think so.

Because you're the only one responding.

Yeah, you don't have a dozen different people you're competing with.

Yeah, and so, I mean, he brings up the exact point. If you have a monopoly, which is technically illegal.

Yeah.

Um, you know, obviously he doesn't have a monopoly. There's plenty of wildlife services companies out there, but like, probably in his area.

His area in, in How many of those are there?

Yeah.

How, how many businesses do you know that they're the only one in the area that do that?

Yeah.

Especially that are taking Angie's leads.

Probably get away with that in, like, in Alaska.

Right?

Michael says, like a screen door on a submarine.

Oh my gosh.

To which Steve responded, most accurate description for Angie. Never used them, but have had friends tell me horror stories about fees for trash leads. or unqualified leads.

Wow.

Matt says, holy crap, this is long. I just started my business in April and went with Angie Leads. I was excited at first because this would help me acquire jobs and get my name out there. Well, it's May 4th, and I keep my leads turned off. I paid an annual amount of $280 plus leads fees, which I was told would be on average $27 per lead, but it has been $50 to $70 per lead. And they charge you if you have your leads on regardless if you get the job or not. In fact, they charge you even if you never speak to the potential customer. That is just wrong in my opinion. I have gotten 2 solid jobs out of 12 charges and got refunded for about 4

jobs. I think the lead service should screen customers better. For example, I do not do ticks or moles, but the requests will come in for rodent control with no further details. I contact the customer, and they asked for mole removal service. Boom. Angie charges for that lead. I would caution you to go with Angie Leads. They run a racket. Wow.

Man, I, I, here's the thing. Here's a person who is frustrated enough with Angie's that they didn't just put garbage. Yep. Or they wrote a paragraph or two. Yeah. And it's, it's well, Well-written, like very informative, and honestly, very specific.

Like, here's the things I don't do. They send them to me anyway, and then they charge me for them.

And by the way, those, those numbers are exactly what you were telling us they were. Shocker.

Yeah. So the same liar is talking to everybody else.

Yep.

All right. Christopher says, run away far, far away. Go to Thumbtack. Thumbtack is an app.

It— well, Thumbtack is another aggregator too though. Like, they— it's, it's one that I've mentioned.

They, they— Have you, have you checked them out?

I, I mean, I just know— I don't know nearly as much about them. I know they're not as big as Angie's, so they may have better services. But again, they're an aggregator. They're doing the same type of thing that Angie's is doing.

What, what a horrible thing to have to say about something. They're not as big, so their service is probably better.

Yep, pretty much.

Yeah. Jason says having an optimized Google Business is good as well as trying out Google Guarantee. What's Google Guarantee?

Okay. So Google Guarantee is you can pay Google to put a little green star next to you.

Oh, is it like the blue checkmark on Twitter?

Correct.

Okay.

It's like, it's like, basically, they've— but the thing is, like, Google does do some background checking on you at that point. Like, you, you do have a The people that are Google Guaranteed are at least vetted.

Mhmm.

In, in, in some ways. You're still paying them to put you as Google Guaranteed. They're not going to the best— they're not actually looking for the best people and going, hey, we're gonna put you up here because you're awesome.

Sure. Again, you're paying. You're still paying for it.

You're still paying for it.

Yeah.

But they're still— they're at least gonna do a background check on you.

Okay. So here's Mark. Mark says, bad idea. Don't do it. They make you sign stuff, and then they don't care if the lead's good or not. They just take your money. I actually lost on using this service. F them. Tell us how you really feel, Mark.

Exactly.

Here's Steve. They should have to disclose to consumers that they only refer you to people that pay them for leads. A lot of people think they are getting a reputable company. They are getting whomever will pay for a lead, even if they don't get the job.

Sounds familiar. I think we might have said that.

We're on like a carousel here.

Yeah.

Philip Michael, it's junk. They sell the same leads to all your competitors paying for it, and you better have someone ready to call as soon as it comes in because your competitors will, and it's lots of the— and it's a lot of the time first one gets it. The company I used to work for used to do it, and we had to have sales guys, and that's all they did. Let's respond to Angie's Leads.

I also think I might have said that.

Jason says, don't do it.

So many of those.

Joseph, Angie's Leads is the biggest scam. Rich says, the suck.

The suck. They probably meant they suck, but still.

Jacob says, no go for us. We canceled them.

Uh-huh.

Uh, Melissa says, scam.

That's it.

Uh, Jeremy says, much better ways to get leads that aren't shared with other companies. Usually they produce leads for people shopping on price alone.

Yeah.

Um, Troy says, I don't know, but if they call me one more time, I'm gonna lose my cool. That was all in caps.

This person has clearly had it. They've had it.

You're my spirit animal, Troy.

That's right.

Uh, Jeff says, run.

Yep.

James says, not happy. Promised me 4 leads a day, not even getting 4 leads a week. Strongly recommend stay away. Uh, Trudy says, run fast. Done. Do it. What a ripoff.

Don't do it. Probably.

Probably. Yeah. Don't do it. Done do it sounds better though. Run fast, done do it. Done do it.

Done do it.

Run fast, I done do it.

Exactly. Oh man.

Here, speak to— that's speak to text. Is that what the—

I'm not—

I can't see them, but I think there's just a few more here. Yeah, 4 more. This thread— this is Clint. This thread is sad and also very funny. Question: How big is your current list? Incredible ways to generate cash without new leads all the time. Then with new profits, invest in advertising. And I think this guy runs a marketing company.

Probably. Yeah.

Rick says Angie is ugly and her mother dresses her funny.

Maybe that may be the best one yet.

Facebook flagged that comment as Potentially inappropriate.

That's funny. Yeah, that's funny.

Let's see. Adam says door knock and leave cards everywhere you can, and maybe radio advertisements. I personally like to leave cards at the gas pumps.

Oh, interesting.

That's not a bad strategy.

Not a bad idea.

Jerry just canceled with them. I don't recommend. Yeah, maybe that's why they're calling me. They're losing all these customers. Adam says, spend the money with Google, better results.

Yeah. I, I, I'll also throw one from our friend Eric.

Uh-huh.

Eric G. We, we, we got this, or you got this up a little bit late in the game with him. But he wrote, from the contractors I've worked with, they paid thousands a month and didn't get a bunch of good business out of it. We have a lot of contractors in this group, so I would love to see what others have to say. So— Yeah.

We'd love to hear what they say too.

Yeah. Exactly. So I, and, and, and here's the thing, like, I think, I think the problem is beyond, beyond all of this is there are good options out there for contractors to actually get good leads.

Yeah.

I mean, uh, one, one of our sponsors for a long, long time has been Sustained Growth Solutions, and they do digital marketing and they, they help contractors get good leads, but they only work with one contractor. And that's, that's one of the big deals with, with, with good marketing companies. They're gonna work for you.

Yeah.

Not, not against you. You know? So, you know, if, if you, if you're a contractor out there and you're going, but how, how can I get this done? Call someone like Sustained Growth Solutions or, or another digital marketing company in your area who has the ability to work exclusively with you.

Yeah.

Um, I, I think that if Angie's was sending you only leads that you asked for, only the type of leads that you want, and you're the only one that they sent them to, I think a lot of contractors would be a lot happier. But that, that's not what happens.

No.

And so we get this kind of response, and I'm sorry, whoever called you, but don't call our bluff.

We— it's like, we will ask. You really want me to talk about this live on the air and then push it out to thousands of people?

For 57 minutes so far. Yeah, that's how long we've been doing this. 57 minutes.

And I, I have, I have 4 more.

Okay, bring them.

You ready?

I do.

Okay.

I mean, I am.

Robin, and this is, this is from a small group that I'm a part of. It's like a little, uh, consulting group I'm a part of.

Okay.

Um, Robin says, we have used them before and my vote is an absolute no, hands down, 100% no. They were okay until they were bought out by HomeAdvisor, and after that they change— charge an arm and a leg for stuff. And I also found that several different companies showing up at the same time for estimates.

Oh yeah. So, uh, first of all, they got that a little bit backwards. Angie's List bought home advisor.

Yeah, it's the other way around.

But, but the same is true. But that is— that's, uh, that's not good.

That's not good at all.

That's not good. You got multiple people showing up for the same— oh, that's not good.

Yeah. And, uh, Steve says, the worst ever, and they charged me without consent. And, uh, someone amened that. Um, And then Ricky says, it's worse than HomeAdvisor, run. And then Sarah says, terrible. We would get a lead call immediately and they would already be scheduled with someone else with Angie's. Tried to tell my rep that and went in one ear and out the other.

Well, yeah, they're— I mean, the rep is just trying to make a sale. They don't care. I don't care. They don't care.

I mean, like, they— I— here's what I'm guessing. I'm guessing that they are budgeted so many refunds every month.

Okay, you're probably right.

Just to try and keep people on the platform.

Sure.

And they're willing to do that to try and just keep people leading down the primrose path of like, no, no, no, no, we've got lots of leads coming through for you. Don't worry about it. We got lots of leads coming through for you. 2 million people on our platform every day.

Yeah.

And it's like, yeah, but is it the same 2 million people?

Right.

Like, and of those 2 million, how many of those are the business people that are getting on the platform to like see the leads?

Yeah.

Like, I, like, I know, I know how these people skew the numbers.

Right.

Like, like, and I, I I'm sorry, like 2 million across the US is just not that impressive, right? It's really not.

No, it's not.

I mean, like, if you wanted to tell me like there's 2 million people in Houston or even in Texas—

in Texas, that might even be—

there's 2 million people in Texas on the platform every day.

That might be interesting.

That's not— but that's not interesting.

I mean, like, even then it's like, okay, but like, do you know how many industries There are that exist.

Yeah.

Do you know how many there— there— it's ridiculous.

Of those, like, who was looking for me, right?

One, maybe. Maybe one out of 21. And I don't know, the thing again, I go back to the problem. The biggest problem that I have with this is they— yes, the contractors are getting— they're getting railroaded in many ways. They're, they're being told something that isn't true. That's why you got so many people against them. Honestly, like, I hate it whenever there are homeowners that are getting screwed.

Yeah.

By, by saying, look, we're gonna take your, your information and give it to the most reputable contractors. No. No, you're not.

They're just lying. Somebody just commented in one of the groups. It's answering my question. Angie sucks. Next question. I think that's probably the best way to end. Yeah, they suck. Next question. Like, what's the— and so like, we just need to move on to the next topic because like, I mean, we can beat this horse to death, but like, here's the thing is every business owner that we can come in contact— and I think we read probably like close to 100 comments tonight.

Sure.

You know, and that's not even all of them. Some of them we couldn't read because they were a little too specific, and then we didn't wanna, like, you know, give anybody up.

Or vulgar. Yes.

Or that. Like, not, not a one was like, oh my gosh, why haven't you signed up yet?

Right. No. Not one.

Not one.

No.

And, and that's, that's what you have to have out in the marketplace is like, how can you be missing out on this opportunity? And nobody is saying that.

Right.

Yet there are still morons out there using this platform. And I mean morons on both ends. There's morons who are business owners who are using this platform trying to get qualified leads coming through, and they're crap leads. And there are people who are just fighting for the bottom of the barrel.

Mhmm.

And there are people who are going on there looking for people to service their home, and they're gonna get people who are fighting for the bottom of the barrel, which means they are not interested in doing a good job.

Nope.

They're interested in recovering the money that they spent to get your name.

Right.

Into their database.

Yep. And they're gonna do it as quickly and as inefficiently as possible.

Or as efficiently as possible.

Maybe.

So that they can, like, spend 5 minutes on your property.

Yeah. They're, they're, they're gonna do a horrible job.

This is, I mean, but, like, and this is a whole other can of worms, but this is, this is the whole issue that we've had in the past with talking about home warranty companies.

Oh, yeah.

Mhmm.

I mean, yeah. I, we had a, business that I worked for, had a, had a pest control company that actually worked for them on quarterlies, which is normal. This guy would, would come and it, I don't know, probably, I'm guessing like 20,000 or 30,000 square feet.

Mhmm.

That they were gonna have to, you know, spray and, and, and take care of. This guy would be on the property for 10 minutes.

Yeah.

And, um, did an absolutely horrible job. Um, obviously, as you can imagine, there were bugs everywhere. Um, when we, when we redid the, the bid, like, had, had new people come and check it, when, when the new people came out, they were there for about 3 hours.

Yeah.

To, to get, to get the job done. And, and sometimes they'd bring 2 people and it would still take a long time. That's what we're talking about. We're talking about the difference in people that are actually doing the job that they're saying they're gonna do and people that don't.

Yeah.

Um, and at the end of the day, um, for those of you that are homeowners, I— stay away from Angie's. But just, just stay away from them. You're not gonna get the best that you can get Yeah.

And I mean, the, the best thing that you can do is talk to your trusted friends and family.

There you go.

Who live close to you.

That's right.

And ask them, hey, have you ever had this problem? Who'd you get to fix it?

Right.

No matter what it is.

Yeah.

I mean, and even then, I mean, like, at the, at the end of the day, Nextdoor, which is an app that I detest.

Yeah.

Because it, it's really just a place for retired people to air their grievances against their neighbors.

All day long.

But still a way better place to find someone qualified to work on your home.

Yeah. And you even, even Facebook, like HOA Facebook groups and things like that, like neighborhood Facebook groups, you can find, you know, you can put something like there. Again, it's the same kind of thing that is Nextdoor from time to time.

Yeah.

But still, you might get—

Well, let, let, let me say this. So we do our, our business does really well on Facebook.

Mhmm.

And part of the reason we do well on Facebook is because of people who live in neighborhoods that have closed Facebook groups for— and, like, I've even had it where neighbors have a closed Facebook group for their street.

Oh, wow.

Not just their neighborhood, their street.

That's impressive.

You know, and so you're, you're dealing at that point with maybe 30 people, depending on the size of the street, and 30 people, maybe 60 people.

Right.

And those are the ones that tend to be— and like, we're not even in those groups, but when we show up, our techs are telling us like, hey, the, the customer told us like that they were referred to us through Facebook, their Facebook group for their neighborhood, for their street, whatever.

Right.

You know, and, and that's where people are going to find good reputable business people to help them out.

Right.

Because they're, they're going to those people because they're saying, who have you used for this?

And they've done a good job.

And, and, and then people will respond much like they have to this post.

Right.

Like, hey, what has been your experience with this?

Yeah.

Well, and, and people are just as happy to share their dumpster fire experience as they are their good experience.

Yeah.

People don't realize that. People are happy to to share their good experiences.

They are.

You know? And, and so I gave every opportunity for people who own small businesses to let me know how great their experiences has been with Angie's List. I have yet to hear one that has been, it's been amazing. I'd do it again, and I wish I could pay double.

Yeah. It's not even close. No. Not even close.

I think the, the word that keeps coming up is scam.

Yeah. And, and whether that's true or not, I, I don't wanna necessarily speculate on that. But the fact is—

I'll speculate on it.

The, the, the, the word has come out multiple times.

And at the end of the day, regardless of whether or not it's true, it doesn't matter what people are— it's your clients. That is what they are saying about it.

That's exactly right.

So former clients, they're, they're, they're saying it openly.

Yeah.

In public.

Right.

Like, you have an image issue.

Mhm.

So good luck. So, and like, here, here's the— here's how you can tell that the Homeowner Show is above the board, okay? Because we could probably make pretty good money having Angie's Leads as a sponsor.

Oh, oh yeah.

That'll never happen.